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Author Topic: Rape in the Bible?  (Read 1230 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 23, 2011, 02:37:13 PM »

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

 29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Can someone explain this to me? How can we even view this in the light of Christ?
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« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2011, 02:38:33 PM »

There is clearly written  that it is immoral.
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2011, 02:47:04 PM »

There is clearly written  that it is immoral.

What does that mean?
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2011, 02:58:41 PM »

There is clearly written  that it is immoral.

What does that mean?

It is clearly written as rape being immoral.

In other words, if you rape someone, you will give to her family that you have wronged, and you will support your new wife (no woman could be easily married, defiled).

It takes some context within the Jewish culture, but it intends to say "rape is wrong, if you do it, you will change and make amends [or else, your troubles have just begun].
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2011, 03:08:14 PM »

Wait what? Doesn't it say you can simply rape her, pay an absurdly low sum to her father (even in our times), and be easily wed to her. That way, you can essentially buy her. Just be sure to be found, otherwise, you'll be unable to buy her.

I'm not sure I understand
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« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011, 03:12:08 PM »

I'm not sure I understand

If you are trying to  merge it with the modern approach, I'm not surprised you are. It was written 2600 years ago.
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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2011, 03:13:58 PM »

There is clearly written  that it is immoral.

What does that mean?

It is clearly written as rape being immoral.

In other words, if you rape someone, you will give to her family that you have wronged, and you will support your new wife (no woman could be easily married, defiled).

It takes some context within the Jewish culture, but it intends to say "rape is wrong, if you do it, you will change and make amends [or else, your troubles have just begun].
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?


2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?


5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?


6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?


7. Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?



8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?


9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?


10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2011, 03:23:34 PM »

First: the sum is not absurdly low.  It equals to about a year's wages.

Second: It doesn't necessarily refer to rape, in fact, given the previous verses the scenario doesn't seem to be likely to be rape at all.  The previous verses specifically refer to cases where the (in the previous case "betrothed") woman didn't "cry out".  Because this specific verse refers to an unengaged woman the canoodling couple actually gets out easy (did my best to avoid obvious puns there).  I'm sure if the woman had "cried out" the men of the city would have laid hands on the would-be rapist and slaughtered him slowly.  But because by not "crying out" it is implied that this case is consensual, the man is actually given a rather reasonable (again, in context, the context here being what happens to rapists and adulterers, that is: stoning) chance to behave honorably.
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2011, 03:26:45 PM »

I don't know why you bring politics into this.  Christians can be politically pro-gay marriage and spiritually against it.  There's no real right or wrong in politics.  Some Christians feel that to impose religious beliefs in constitutional law would go against their personal principles of "live and let live," even if they disagree with another's way of life.

As for the 50 shekels, that's not a small sum of money.  If you read this verse in its context, either you pay up, stay married and can never be divorced for the rest of your life, or you get killed.  Because a man violated her, and since now word went around that no man would ever marry her, because this was the type of society the lived in, then it was now the rapist's responsibility for the sake of restoring honor to that family and to keep his own life.  If he's unable to restore honor to the family, Israeli government sanctioned such a man's death.

Most of these laws need to be understood in its context.  Usually, no rapist would just simply go and rape someone just to forcefully marry her.  A rapist simply rapes and tries to run off.  If someone wanted to marry her, and actually had the proper dowry, then that person could have married her without any pressure of dishonor, death, or non-divorce.
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2011, 03:30:53 PM »

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

 29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Can someone explain this to me? How can we even view this in the light of Christ?

You have failed to appreciate the cultural context. When you read today's values into a historical context, it's not going to work. The fact is, this command is highly progressive relative to the culture of the time. (The same goes for your litany of other "offensive" laws.)

In those days, if a woman was raped she was considered damaged goods. No man would marry her. She would be rejected from society and live in poverty for the rest of her life.

But on the other hand, our good God who loves mankind commands that if a woman is raped, the man must pay her dowry and provide for her for the rest of her life. He can never divorce her, v. 29 says.

You cannot isolate one text from the entire story and judge it. The fact is, God was working with very primitive people to start his new nation that would produce Christ and the Church. He had to gradually build for centuries to the fulfillment in Christ. The Israelites in this era could not have conceived of the freedoms we have in Christ; it would have fallen into anarchy. (Look at the Middle East today to see what happens when people who only know subjugation are given freedom. Many simply can't handle it.)

So, God advanced Israel towards the goal here by making men responsible for their actions. Nowhere is rape condoned; rather it is made illegal and a penalty is attached to it. And instead of the woman living in poverty with no children to care for her, the man is forced to provide for her and take her into his family.
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2011, 03:33:27 PM »

There is clearly written  that it is immoral.

What does that mean?

It is clearly written as rape being immoral.

In other words, if you rape someone, you will give to her family that you have wronged, and you will support your new wife (no woman could be easily married, defiled).

It takes some context within the Jewish culture, but it intends to say "rape is wrong, if you do it, you will change and make amends [or else, your troubles have just begun].
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?


2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?


5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?


6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?


7. Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?



8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?


9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?


10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

I didn't realize that you live in the pre-Hellenic kingdom of Judah (or perhaps the pre-Rehoboam undivided kingdom of Israel).  By all means, ask one of the 6 elders of your tribe on any areas that might seem confusing.  Whatever you do, don't hastily go killing anyone, as their family members are well within vendetta rights to go after you.

As for your first question, the text doesn't specify Mexicans or Canadians.  If you can afford one, by all means go for the Canadian, but their advanced education and entitled views on health-care tend to make them cost-prohibitive.
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2011, 03:35:12 PM »

Rather than plagiarizing TTC, it would be nice if you actually were reading this stuff on your own and come up with your own non-sarcastic questions.  This way, people will take you seriously.  But if you want to make a mockery out of what you didn't read (are you sure you were a practicing Christian?), then by all means, at least provide the source of the mockery, that's not even yours:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/drlaura.asp
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If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2011, 03:36:32 PM »

There is clearly written  that it is immoral.

What does that mean?

It is clearly written as rape being immoral.

In other words, if you rape someone, you will give to her family that you have wronged, and you will support your new wife (no woman could be easily married, defiled).

It takes some context within the Jewish culture, but it intends to say "rape is wrong, if you do it, you will change and make amends [or else, your troubles have just begun].
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?


2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?


5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?


6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?


7. Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?



8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?


9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?


10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

I didn't realize that you live in the pre-Hellenic kingdom of Judah (or perhaps the pre-Rehoboam undivided kingdom of Israel).  By all means, ask one of the 6 elders of your tribe on any areas that might seem confusing.  Whatever you do, don't hastily go killing anyone, as their family members are well within vendetta rights to go after you.

As for your first question, the text doesn't specify Mexicans or Canadians.  If you can afford one, by all means go for the Canadian, but their advanced education and entitled views on health-care tend to make them cost-prohibitive.

Thank God I live only a couple blocks away from the head Levite.  I don't know what I would do without him.  Tongue
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2011, 03:55:16 PM »

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

Where did you lift these from? I have heard these verbatim before. We must always cite sources.  police

Be that as it may, I think most of these are questions for your tribe elders. Are you of Gad? Naphtali? Maybe Zebulun?

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

God's Word is eternal and unchanging. The Word Himself changed most of the laws in the Gospels.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 03:59:43 PM by bogdan » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2011, 03:55:52 PM »

Never mind, I noticed the sarcasm, but I didn't know it was cut and paste. I've lost all motivation on this thread.
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2011, 04:19:59 PM »

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from you and understand why you would propose and support a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. As you said "in the eyes of God marriage is based between a man a woman." I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?


2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?


5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?


6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?


7. Lev.21:20 states that I may ! not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?



8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?


9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?


10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)  

For #9: as much as we like calling the football "pigskin," IIRC 99% of all footballs are made with cowhide leather, not pigskin.

For the rest: You're continuing to attempt to ridicule Christianity on an Orthodox forum by applying non-Orthodox interpretation of scripture to said scripture, and thinking that we'll be insulted or impressed.  It doesn't work here.  We interpret the law through Christ, and thus would never find ourselves in the quandary your straw-man seems to be in.
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2011, 04:40:01 PM »

When you copy and paste a straw man argument, it's quite hard to take your questions seriously.

Regardless, we must never forget that Hebrews 8:7 states quite emphatically that the Law was imperfect. After all, God was dealing with a people who were emerging from a pagan culture with Ancient Near East values. Thus, the moral code presented is less than ideal, but God meets us where we are and He met the Israelites where they were.

Such an interpretation fits with the teachings of the Fathers as well, specifically St. John Chrystostom who acknowledged that God witheld His Trinitarian nature from the Israelites due to their propensity towards paganism. Thus, God witheld certain things from the Israelites, but this is all acknowledged within Scripture.

I think it would behoove you to study Christianity through Christian authors before attempting to mock Christianity, otherwise you end up looking ill-informed. That is not meant as an insulte, merely an observation.
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2011, 04:59:40 PM »

It is clearly written as rape being immoral.

In other words, if you rape someone, you will give to her family that you have wronged, and you will support your new wife (no woman could be easily married, defiled).

It takes some context within the Jewish culture, but it intends to say "rape is wrong, if you do it, you will change and make amends [or else, your troubles have just begun].

I don't think the issue is whether rape is immoral, but rather how it is handled. I find it hard to believe that some people here don't consider this to be a "stumbling block" or "difficulty" or however you want to put it.
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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2011, 05:36:37 PM »

It is clearly written as rape being immoral.

In other words, if you rape someone, you will give to her family that you have wronged, and you will support your new wife (no woman could be easily married, defiled).

It takes some context within the Jewish culture, but it intends to say "rape is wrong, if you do it, you will change and make amends [or else, your troubles have just begun].

I don't think the issue is whether rape is immoral, but rather how it is handled. I find it hard to believe that some people here don't consider this to be a "stumbling block" or "difficulty" or however you want to put it.

The problem is the whole world at the time was a stumbling block to today's standards, not just the tribes of Israel.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 05:38:09 PM by minasoliman » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2011, 05:49:56 PM »

Here is a good summary for "visual" learning. Don't click if your piety is offended by a good sense of humor (I hate that we have to have disclaimers like this):

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8Z3s3ZJmwDk/TP6c6q5hlfI/AAAAAAAA2gE/EzTEC1cbeH8/BIBnD.jpg

(You might have to click to enlarge the image to make it readable.)
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« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2011, 09:13:58 AM »

First: the sum is not absurdly low.  It equals to about a year's wages.

Second: It doesn't necessarily refer to rape, in fact, given the previous verses the scenario doesn't seem to be likely to be rape at all.  The previous verses specifically refer to cases where the (in the previous case "betrothed") woman didn't "cry out".  Because this specific verse refers to an unengaged woman the canoodling couple actually gets out easy (did my best to avoid obvious puns there).  I'm sure if the woman had "cried out" the men of the city would have laid hands on the would-be rapist and slaughtered him slowly.  But because by not "crying out" it is implied that this case is consensual, the man is actually given a rather reasonable (again, in context, the context here being what happens to rapists and adulterers, that is: stoning) chance to behave honorably.

For the price of a human life, whom you've violated in order to purchase, I disagree with it being expensive. Also, there's a matter concerning 'shall' that seems to imply a system of debt, if the funds are not readily available. But that's my interpretation.

As for part two, I disagree harshly. Believe me, when I read the bible Deuteronomy 22 was the end-all-be-all point at which I said: "Hold on, no. This isn't just ridiculous or immoral, it's unthinkably evil." So, I sought the passage in many translations and found no improvement of this law. The consent you're talking about is one of my primary issues with the chapter too. For one, women who are raped in city walls (betrothed previously to another, mind you) and fail to 'cry out' are killed alongside the rapist. Firstly, this is jaw-dropping in its potential for loopholes. Women can be subdued, frightened into not speaking, threatened, and made unconscious. There is no line accounting for these easy situational contradictions of the law, which demands the victim be killed. Consent has nothing to do with it.

The next law follows women outside of city walls, who are allowed a Get Out of Stoning Free Card, because even if they could cry out, nobody would (arguably) be able to hear her. These just sound like laughably outdated laws from a group of people trying to establish how to be civilized, reeking of historically understandable, primitive biases. Keeping in mind, both passages explicitly refer to seizing the woman and forcing himself to lie upon her; consent is nowhere to be found.

Quote
28 “If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days.
Clearly, this means consent. Clearly. And it's not like I cherry picked this translation. Every translation I can find mirrors this sentiment. Further, the point of the laws apply to engagement or marriage, not to consent. Again, consent has no place in the laws. I'd ramble about sexism, but that's another story. The law states that 'crying out' only matters if the woman belongs to a man already. Otherwise, they are fair game, to put it crudely (as I feel is appropriate, discussing such heinousness). This law is actually meant to be a deterrent, believe it or not, because those who constructed this law knew psychology about as well as they knew quantum physics.They thought rapists only wanted sex, they were savage and shallow monsters. If they thought rape would entail lifelong responsibility, the mindset of the time demanded rapists be frightened to act on their urges. This was all a horrific misconception of why rapists rape to begin with. The language is strong and assertive: The man who lay with her SHALL pay the woman's father fifty shekels. And she SHALL be his wife (for the rest of his days).

The law is in no way about unwed kiddies getting caught playing hide the pickle. It's about a rapist getting caught violating somebody un-betrothed, which changes the stakes of rape astronomically (to those people at the time). Unfortunately, these oh-so-insightful law-makers didn't recognize that rapists weren't often blinded ravenous beasts who must be slaughtered, they can, at times, be incredibly desperate and complex individuals who are so overwhelmed by the (alleged) love of a woman, they lash out it a very sickening way and would do anything to marry them. In ANY case, simply offering the rapist a fine of ten million dollars paid to marry their victim is so appalling it causes me to belch flames. It makes contextual (divinely moral) sense in no society, and the sum, debt or no debt, cannot ever account for the revolting idea that a rapist should be allowed to see the victim again, let alone marry them with daddy's happily bribed consent. It's wicked, bone-chillingly so.
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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2011, 06:50:35 PM »

The problem is the whole world at the time was a stumbling block to today's standards, not just the tribes of Israel.

Indeed  Undecided
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