OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 22, 2014, 03:14:18 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Strong Delusion is extraterrestrial Designers are our gods  (Read 8194 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #90 on: February 18, 2011, 06:02:41 PM »

Alfred, have  you met your atheist doppelganger TheJackel?

Lol

Many believers will be blindsided by this delusion, their faith shaken to the core....no one warned them, no one explained why God uses intermediaries...why angels exist, and their use of technology...

Ignorance of God, that He is infinite and Holy and therefore uses intermediaries, for our sake, that we not  be consumed, was never explained to them...

They will see everything in scripture about angels etc...just as the UFO aliens interpret...the reality of UFO's will make everything in scripture, seem different...

Only those who know and love the truth, won't be deceived.

 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 (2Th 2:9-12 NKJ)

Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7,019


"My god is greater."


« Reply #91 on: February 18, 2011, 06:17:05 PM »

Alfred, have  you met your atheist doppelganger TheJackel?

Lol

Many believers will be blindsided by this delusion, their faith shaken to the core....no one warned them, no one explained why God uses intermediaries...why angels exist, and their use of technology...

Ignorance of God, that He is infinite and Holy and therefore uses intermediaries, for our sake, that we not  be consumed, was never explained to them...

They will see everything in scripture about angels etc...just as the UFO aliens interpret...the reality of UFO's will make everything in scripture, seem different...

Only those who know and love the truth, won't be deceived.

 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 (2Th 2:9-12 NKJ)

Yes, we will all be duped and enslaved by the alien demons if you don't continue flooding this forum with your interminable posts. In centuries to come, they'll talk about how Alfred Persson saved the universe (along with Flash Gordon).
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #92 on: February 18, 2011, 11:16:40 PM »

Alfred, have  you met your atheist doppelganger TheJackel?

Lol

Many believers will be blindsided by this delusion, their faith shaken to the core....no one warned them, no one explained why God uses intermediaries...why angels exist, and their use of technology...

Ignorance of God, that He is infinite and Holy and therefore uses intermediaries, for our sake, that we not  be consumed, was never explained to them...

They will see everything in scripture about angels etc...just as the UFO aliens interpret...the reality of UFO's will make everything in scripture, seem different...

Only those who know and love the truth, won't be deceived.

 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 (2Th 2:9-12 NKJ)

Yes, we will all be duped and enslaved by the alien demons if you don't continue flooding this forum with your interminable posts. In centuries to come, they'll talk about how Alfred Persson saved the universe (along with Flash Gordon).

I didn't say you or anyone grounded in the correct (Trinitarian) doctrine of God...

But many are those that never bothered to learn the doctrine...many have become skeptics already just from the many video's on ufos, Bible passages and other holy books, and archeological sites which predate the flood.

If you believe the scripture, that Satan exists and is an intelligent being against God, then his pushing the ufo phenomena, and planning to use it in an end time deception, passes from a possibility to a near certainty. Nothing else would cause the world to lose faith in their respective religions like a UFO landing where the "aliens" point to Bible passages (and other holy books) allegedly proving their previous contact with mankind.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 11:17:35 PM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #93 on: February 19, 2011, 10:49:01 AM »

Rev 9:13 Then the sixth angel sounded: And I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,

"Horns" represent kingship (Dan 7-8), power to save (Ex 29:12) or destroy (Ex 21:14), "four" completeness  (Rev 4:6-8), hence the voice sounding from the four horns of the altar before God symbolizes it has God's authority and everything in this vision is by God's decree, not the independent action of its actors.


14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

Compare:

6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
 (2Th 2:6-8 NKJ)


God unleashes the lying spirits that cause Babylon the Great to apostatize (fall) from all that is called God, to a new spiritistic religion of the antichrist. This kills them  spiritually and physically.

NKJ  Jeremiah 51:1 Thus says the LORD: "Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, Against those who dwell in Leb Kamai, A destroying wind. (Jer 51:1 NKJ)

The "Athbash"  "Leb Kamai" is a cipher that reverses the order of spelling to indicate something more than Chaldea is meant, namely, "Babylon the Great."

The four angels are symbolic, not actual angels just as the four horses of the apocalypse are not actual horses, they symbolize what is being released will go out in every direction (Rev 6).

All not having God's name on their forehead (Rev 9:4; Mat 24:24; 2 Thess 2:13f) in Leb Kami Babylon the Great are the targets.

2 And I will send winnowers to Babylon, Who shall winnow her and empty her land. For in the day of doom They shall be against her all around.
 3 Against her let the archer bend his bow, And lift himself up against her in his armor. Do not spare her young men; Utterly destroy all her army.
 4 Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, And those thrust through in her streets.
 5 For Israel is not forsaken, nor Judah, By his God, the LORD of hosts, Though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel."
 6 Flee from the midst of Babylon, And every one save his life! Do not be cut off in her iniquity, For this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; He shall recompense her. (Jer 51:2-6 NKJ)


Verse 6 shows this occurs when God commands His people come out of Babylon:

4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
 5 "For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
 6 "Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.
 7 "In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart,`I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.'
 8 "Therefore her plagues will come in one day-- death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her. (Rev 18:4-8 NKJ)


15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind.

God decree is for this precise time, no more...no less, the scope of its destruction is limited "a third of mankind" is killed, not all.


16 Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.


"Two hundred million"  (δισμυριάδες μυριάδων) understates their number, μυριάς (“ten thousand”) designates an incalculable immensity, figurative of an innumerable, indefinite host (Gen. 24:60; Lev. 26:8; Num. 10:35[36]; Deut. 32:30; 33:2, 17; 1 Kgs. 18:7–8; 21:12[11]; Ps. 3:7[6]; Cant. 5:10; Sir. 47:6; Mic. 6:7; Dan. 7:10; in Ps. 90(91):7 LXX.


17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.

This is a vision (ὅρασις) like Daniel's (4, 5, 8 etc), therefore these are symbols, not descriptions of actual objects. The horses are not technology, human or angelic...they symbolize an army.

These demon spirits are God's army of unholy myriads He sends to consume children of the Devil.

τοὺς καθημένους ἐπ᾽ αὐτῶν "those sitting (middle voice)  on them" indicates the riders are affected by the action, not initiating it. God is in complete control, the demons are His helpless victims, they are now being forced to destroy their own followers.


All three colors of the breastplates and their phenomena occur in a volcano; hence, this is symbolic of hell. While breastplates of righteousness (Is 59:17; Eph 6:14) faith and love (1 Th 5:8) exist, these are breastplates of destruction...all killed by this demonic army are cast into the lowest hell to await judgment day.

Just as the heads of the tails injure (vs. 19), these "heads of lions" are ruthlessly efficient killing, "eager to tear...ambush" (Ps 17:12) to devour (1 Pet 5:8),

The "fire, smoke and brimstone" out of their mouths is the judgment of God against the slain (Rev 14:10)



18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed-- by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.


Given the symbolic nature of this vision, "a third" symbolizes God's restraint, it could have been much worse.

19 For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm.

This symbolizes all not consumed by the fire from their mouths, are killed by venom. This demonic killing horde is terrifyingly efficient, it kills those in front, and any it missed, as it passes through the ranks.


This isn't merely physical death, its spiritual also. These rise up in the Day of Christ only to be cast head long into the lake which burns with fire and sulphur.


20 But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.
 21 And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts. (Rev 9:13-21 NKJ)


This confirms the connection is to Babylon the Great and its great spiritistic falling away from all previous beliefs in God, to follow the "god of forces" (Dan 11:38f) the demon spirits preached:

And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! (Rev 18:2 NKJ)


That the demons symbolized by the horse and rider are the mystery of lawlessness, that secret power inciting rebellion against God's Law, is seen in the symbol of the mouth and serpent tail having a head:

For their power is in their mouth and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents, having heads; and with them they do harm.
 (Rev 9:19 NKJ)

Compare:

 The elder and honorable, he is the head; The prophet who teaches lies, he is the tail.
 (Isa 9:15 NKJ)

Out of their mouths come the lies of hell that destroy all  who believe their message. While some suppose the "harm" is not unto death, that is contradicted giving both the same "power" which in this context, is the power to kill: "For their power [to kill] is in their mouth and in their tails."

Hence those not killed directly by their mouths, will die from the venomous lies they were injected with.


« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 10:49:23 AM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #94 on: February 19, 2011, 10:50:26 AM »

The aliens are here!
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
TheJackel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Materialist
Posts: 240


« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2011, 04:37:08 AM »

Tee hee! ALIENS!.. Though a possible source to life's origins on Earth, I don't see much how it correlates to anything in the bible. Aliens however are indeed a plausible scenario. But I don't see any evidence to support that anymore than I see evidence of an invisible GOD made of nothing.
Logged
TheJackel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Materialist
Posts: 240


« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2011, 04:40:10 AM »

I would like to see Theists prove that Aliens didn't create us. Calling it a delusion without evidence? You don't say! Tongue



Quote
This isn't merely physical death, its spiritual also. These rise up in the Day of Christ only to be cast head long into the lake which burns with fire and sulphur.

You might want to google volcanic activity Wink Yeah, that natural phenomenon...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 04:43:37 AM by TheJackel » Logged
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2011, 09:14:00 AM »

Hmmmm...more trolling...wonderful...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 09:16:50 AM by PoorFoolNicholas » Logged
TheJackel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Materialist
Posts: 240


« Reply #98 on: February 21, 2011, 04:54:34 PM »

Hmmmm...more trolling...wonderful...

How so? It's stating possibilities you don't like or want to consider on the subject.. Trolling would be if I went off-topic.. So why would it be impossible for higher intelligent and powerful aliens to have made us all? seeded us here? or even spark a Big Bang?.. I'm curious because your GOD argument sounds very similar to the alien argument with just a difference of opinion..Many of you think your GOD is made of nothing :/ ..
Logged
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2011, 06:59:35 PM »

No your atheism has nothing to do with the thread. But of course every thread has to be about you though, right? No one else should post until they've passed your logic test first. How foolish of me. Don't waste your time talking with me though, you could be starting 17 more threads in the meantime. Could you post a picture of yourself so I can set up a shrine to you at my house? Come to think of it, that may still not be enough to feed your inflated ego.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 07:00:36 PM by PoorFoolNicholas » Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 13,083


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #100 on: February 21, 2011, 07:11:18 PM »

Tee hee! ALIENS!.. Though a possible source to life's origins on Earth, I don't see much how it correlates to anything in the bible. Aliens however are indeed a plausible scenario. But I don't see any evidence to support that anymore than I see evidence of an invisible GOD made of nothing.

Are you stuck in the Science of the 19th Century? If it's "Invisible" it doesn't exist..  Didn't they say that about germs? Lame
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
TheJackel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Materialist
Posts: 240


« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2011, 02:15:07 PM »

Tee hee! ALIENS!.. Though a possible source to life's origins on Earth, I don't see much how it correlates to anything in the bible. Aliens however are indeed a plausible scenario. But I don't see any evidence to support that anymore than I see evidence of an invisible GOD made of nothing.

Are you stuck in the Science of the 19th Century? If it's "Invisible" it doesn't exist..  Didn't they say that about germs? Lame

That wasn't the point of the argument.. It's I don't assume things of such matters without having some evidence to actually validate it. Smiley And the other issue is that GERMS aren't made of nothing  Undecided  My modern day science tells me that I don't state pure assumptions as facts like someone claiming that a God exists does. I don't even claim that aliens exist.
Logged
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2011, 11:32:08 AM »

Hmmmm...more trolling...wonderful...

How so? It's stating possibilities you don't like or want to consider on the subject.. Trolling would be if I went off-topic.. So why would it be impossible for higher intelligent and powerful aliens to have made us all? seeded us here? or even spark a Big Bang?.. I'm curious because your GOD argument sounds very similar to the alien argument with just a difference of opinion..Many of you think your GOD is made of nothing :/ ..

Its impossible alien life seeded life here, without God...as evolution doesn't occur...creation is required for life.

Unfortunately many in the church have accepted evolution as correct, that combined with ignorance of God, that He is infinite and Holy, and angels, that they do use technology and are physical when they want to be in our realm, will devastate their faith in God.

That is the meaning of the Great Falling Away, all belief in God by everyone one earth, is shaken to the core...not just among Christians...the man of sin rises up against ALL that is called God or worshiped...seeking to change times and God's law.

Only the elect will see through the lie, it will be that believable.

As for more proof scripture predicts this:

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. (Rev 16:13-14 NKJ)

This is a vision (ὅρασις Rev 9:17; Dan 8:16 cp 8:20), the unclean spirits are "like frogs", they aren't frogs nor will they look precisely like them. The likely frog meant here was common in Egypt during Exodus (8:1-15), the Ptychadena mascareniensis, also known in English as the Mascarene rocket frog--- when disturbed, they leap into or away from the water, simultaneously expelling a jet of water from the bladder.  Satanic power enabled Pharaoh's  magicians to command  these frogs (Ex 8:7).

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Ptychadena_mascareniensis.jpg

These unclean spirits like frogs are Fallen Angels pretending to be UFO aliens, performing great signs to mislead the kings of the earth into waging a war against God Himself just as they did to Pharaoh (Ex 7:22). This war is described in Rev.  19:11-21.


« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 11:52:41 AM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2011, 09:01:47 PM »

as evolution doesn't occur

How do you account for the large variety of genetic attributes found within the human race who all descended from two human beings, one of which was taken from the flesh of the other?
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,255


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2011, 09:26:26 PM »

Tee hee! ALIENS!.. Though a possible source to life's origins on Earth, I don't see much how it correlates to anything in the bible. Aliens however are indeed a plausible scenario. But I don't see any evidence to support that anymore than I see evidence of an invisible GOD made of nothing.

Are you stuck in the Science of the 19th Century? If it's "Invisible" it doesn't exist..  Didn't they say that about germs? Lame

That wasn't the point of the argument.. It's I don't assume things of such matters without having some evidence to actually validate it. Smiley And the other issue is that GERMS aren't made of nothing  Undecided  My modern day science tells me that I don't state pure assumptions as facts like someone claiming that a God exists does. I don't even claim that aliens exist.
Except that that is not what some one who believes in God does, as has been demonstrated over and over and over and over ad nasium.
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #105 on: February 24, 2011, 10:32:08 PM »

as evolution doesn't occur

How do you account for the large variety of genetic attributes found within the human race who all descended from two human beings, one of which was taken from the flesh of the other?

That begs the question...how do you account for the complete lack of proof for evolution in the Cambrian strata...

This is where the ufo delusion will be strongest

Darwin & crew could suppose many fossils were yet undiscovered in his day, because they assumed these existed in the ocean floor...

However, tectonics has proven the ocean floor is not as old as dry land...

Life exploded in the Cambrian strata, it didn't evolve, that proves evolution impossible. That is presently cited by UFO sites as proof aliens seeded life.

Creationists cite it as proof God created.

So there are two LIKELY explanations for the explosion of life in the Cambrian strata, and evolution is NOT one of them.


Nothing in our experience evolves...mutation isn't evolution. Everything trends downward from a complex to the simple...everything...

Except in the Cambrian strata....there life just "came to be" in even more variety than we see today...exploded on the scene, not evolved slowly from one or a few organisms.

That proves intelligent intervention occurred...UFO people believe the aliens did it...Christians who believe the Bible know God created all things.

AND that means ufo aliens could NOT evolve somewhere else in the universe, without God...its impossible.

Evolution is impossible, that's why there are no lab experiments proving things evolve by chance...anywhere...because it don't happen...unless someone intelligently manipulates the elements.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 10:43:51 PM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #106 on: February 24, 2011, 10:42:12 PM »

as evolution doesn't occur

How do you account for the large variety of genetic attributes found within the human race who all descended from two human beings, one of which was taken from the flesh of the other?

That begs the question...how do you account for the complete lack of proof for evolution in the Cambrian strata...

This is where the ufo delusion will be strongest

Darwin & crew could suppose many fossils were yet undiscovered in his day, because they assumed these existed in the ocean floor...

However, tectonics has proven the ocean floor is not as old as dry land...

Life exploded in the Cambrian strata, it didn't evolve, that proves evolution impossible. That is presently cited by UFO sites as proof aliens seeded life.

Creationists cite it as proof God created.

So there are two LIKELY explanations for the explosion of life in the Cambrian strata, and evolution is NOT one of them.


Nothing in our experience evolves...mutation isn't evolution. Everything trends downward from a complex to the simple...everything...

Except in the Cambrian strata....there life just "came to be" in even more variety than we see today...exploded on the scene, not evolved slowly from one or a few organisms.

I'm not talking necessarily from one species to another, but this along with the fact that there is no cure for HIV or the common cold because of how quickly they mutate is evidence that lifeforms can and do change over time based on various factors.
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #107 on: February 24, 2011, 10:45:02 PM »

as evolution doesn't occur

How do you account for the large variety of genetic attributes found within the human race who all descended from two human beings, one of which was taken from the flesh of the other?

That begs the question...how do you account for the complete lack of proof for evolution in the Cambrian strata...

This is where the ufo delusion will be strongest

Darwin & crew could suppose many fossils were yet undiscovered in his day, because they assumed these existed in the ocean floor...

However, tectonics has proven the ocean floor is not as old as dry land...

Life exploded in the Cambrian strata, it didn't evolve, that proves evolution impossible. That is presently cited by UFO sites as proof aliens seeded life.

Creationists cite it as proof God created.

So there are two LIKELY explanations for the explosion of life in the Cambrian strata, and evolution is NOT one of them.


Nothing in our experience evolves...mutation isn't evolution. Everything trends downward from a complex to the simple...everything...

Except in the Cambrian strata....there life just "came to be" in even more variety than we see today...exploded on the scene, not evolved slowly from one or a few organisms.

I'm not talking necessarily from one species to another, but this along with the fact that there is no cure for HIV or the common cold because of how quickly they mutate is evidence that lifeforms can and do change over time based on various factors.

Mutation is not evolution.

You need to find HIV evolving into a new form of life, mutating is not a new form of life.

You assume mutation eventually results in  evolution...but there is no proof of that anywhere, including in the Cambrian strata where life exploded upon the scene, geologically speaking, almost instantly.

What happens to an organism as it mutates, it becomes sterile....for example, horses mutate into donkeys, but these are sterile...they don't mutate further.

I keep citing the facts (fossils) of the Cambrian strata...because they are conclusive now that we realize the ocean floor is NOT going to reveal more about this strata...and now that a rich fossil Cambrian field has been excavated in China...incredible fossils...some even showing fleshly organs, not just bones.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 10:52:44 PM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 13,083


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #108 on: February 24, 2011, 11:21:41 PM »

as evolution doesn't occur

How do you account for the large variety of genetic attributes found within the human race who all descended from two human beings, one of which was taken from the flesh of the other?

Hmmm..It was my understanding that there is only the very slightest variation among Modern Humans. In fact, all people living outside Africa can be genetically traced to a single group of Humans who left Africa and then multiplied and spread out. So there is a common ancestry to Chinese people and Europeans  for example. Racial differences are very slight and mostly are accounted for by sexual preference and the amount of Sunshine one gets.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
TheJackel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Materialist
Posts: 240


« Reply #109 on: February 25, 2011, 04:56:33 PM »

Quote
Mutation is not evolution.

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Logged
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #110 on: February 25, 2011, 06:53:58 PM »

Quote
Mutation is not evolution.

Sorry, but you are wrong.



Incorrect, you are and I am not sorry, I am glad.

Because there is a God, there is hope.
Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #111 on: February 25, 2011, 07:04:50 PM »

So Alfred all this discussion and planning on starting a UFO Cult together won't come to fruition? "Heaven's Door" has a nice ring to it.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
TheJackel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Materialist
Posts: 240


« Reply #112 on: February 26, 2011, 02:17:38 PM »

Quote
Mutation is not evolution.

Sorry, but you are wrong.



Incorrect, you are and I am not sorry, I am glad.

Because there is a God, there is hope.

Oh, but lets actually define evolution here Wink

Quote
Evolution (also known as biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in the proportion of individual organisms differing in one or more inherited traits.[1] Inherited traits are particular distinguishing characteristics, including anatomical, biochemical or behavioural characteristics, that result from gene–environment interactions. Evolution may occur when there is variation of inherited traits within a population. The major sources of such variation are mutation, genetic recombination and gene flow

Sorry, but you are entirely wrong Smiley It seems to me that you don't really know what evolution means or is. Thus I hope I can help you better grasp it in a single word: "change"

Logged
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #113 on: February 27, 2011, 02:45:18 AM »

Quote
Mutation is not evolution.

Sorry, but you are wrong.



Incorrect, you are and I am not sorry, I am glad.

Because there is a God, there is hope.

Oh, but lets actually define evolution here Wink

Quote
Evolution (also known as biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in the proportion of individual organisms differing in one or more inherited traits.[1] Inherited traits are particular distinguishing characteristics, including anatomical, biochemical or behavioural characteristics, that result from gene–environment interactions. Evolution may occur when there is variation of inherited traits within a population. The major sources of such variation are mutation, genetic recombination and gene flow

Sorry, but you are entirely wrong Smiley It seems to me that you don't really know what evolution means or is. Thus I hope I can help you better grasp it in a single word: "change"



Mutation is not evolution:

Mutation Fixation: A Dead End for Macro-evolution
by E. Calvin Beisner, M.A.

Most arguments against the possibility of mutation as a mechanism for evolution revolve around two premises: that mutations are almost always harmful, and that the idea of their improving rather than harming organisms is contrary to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which tells us that matter and energy naturally tend toward greater randomness rather than greater order and complexity. These are two sides of the same coin, actually, the latter arguing from principle and the former from empirical observation.

Rarely, though, do arguments against mutation as the mechanism for evolution consider at once the many conditions that must be met if mutation is to bring about macro-evolutionary change (that is, change from one basic kind of life to another). Yet examining the probabilities of these conditions all being met together provides excellent evidence against evolution and in favor of creation.
NINE CONDITIONS FOR MUTATION FIXATION

Fortunately, geneticist R.H. Byles has made the job easy for us by discussing nine important conditions in an article on the subject.


http://www.icr.org/article/270/

Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #114 on: February 27, 2011, 03:07:02 PM »

So Alfred all this discussion and planning on starting a UFO Cult together won't come to fruition? "Heaven's Door" has a nice ring to it.

You misunderstood the entire thread...everything here is against ufo cults...

Perhaps you meant you were starting one?

I consider all such "a strong delusion", don't you?
Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #115 on: February 27, 2011, 03:13:52 PM »

I've been asked where angels store the chariots or ships they travel in.

They are in another dimension, an alternate reality.

There are two matrixes or "realities" being generated by the Infinite God, ours is a "partial" MEROS,  the kingdom of heaven where angels dwell, a "complete" TELEIOS.

God lives in  neither reality, both our PARTIAL and the Kingdom of God COMPLETE are generated by the infinite Mind and power of God, both consist and have their being, in Him. No Matrix or reality "contains" KUWL God, God is the place where these two places exist:

As the ancient Jews would say:

"A common term for the Deity in Rabbinic literature is 'the Place,' which originates in the doctrine: 'The Holy One, blessed be He, is the place of His Universe, but His Universe is not His place' (Gen. R. LXVIII. 9). He encompasses space but space does not encompass Him."-( Everyman's Talmud, Schocken Books, 1995, p. 8, ).

 

So it is written:
  
But when that which is perfect (τέλειος)has come, then that which is in part(μέρος) will be done away. (1Co 13:10 NKJ)

And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist(συνίστημι). (Col 1:17 NKJ)

"But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain( כול ) You. How much less this temple which I have built! (1Ki 8:27 NKJ)

 "for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said,`For we are also His offspring.' (Act 17:28 NKJ)

So angels are "trans-dimensional beings", they can retain their physical form in our limited sphere of existence, or be invisible.

BECAUSE they are able to telepathically communicate visions, dreams, voices etc., they can disguise their appearance as anything (2 Cor 11:14)


Prior to the incarnation, Christ often appeared as the "angel of the LORD":

Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day.
2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground,
 3 and said, "My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant.
 4 "Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree.
 5 "And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant." They said, "Do as you have said."
 6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah and said, "Quickly, make ready three measures of fine meal; knead it and make cakes."
 7 And Abraham ran to the herd, took a tender and good calf, gave it to a young man, and he hastened to prepare it.
 8 So he took butter and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. (Gen 18:2-8 NKJ)

9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

 (Act 1:9-11 NKJ)

At the transfiguration, Christ and His disciples entered a portal into the Kingdom of heaven TELEIOS:

 And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."
 2 Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John, and led them up on a high mountain apart by themselves; and He was transfigured before them.
 3 His clothes became shining, exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them.
 4 And Elijah appeared to them with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus.
 (Mar 9:1-4 NKJ)

Moses and Elijah are physical, not spirits, and they are in the Kingdom of God, which evidently has more dimensions that ours, and is on a different "time dimension" so we cannot see it. BUT it exists as an "alternate reality" all  around us, as demonstrated by Christ's resurrection appearances:

26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!"
 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing."
 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
 (Joh 20:26-28 NKJ)

The text does not say Jesus came through the locked doors, He "stood in their midst", that is, appeared in our reality, our PARTIAL. He does not "materialize physical bodies" as some cults believe, he simply "stepped out of the Teleios, into the Meros.

As 1 Cor 13:10 shows, when the more substantial Matrix comes, the less substantial vanishes, perhaps because the greater displaces the lesser...all space to exist is consumed  by the "complete" TELEIOS.

But when that which is perfect (τέλειος)has come, then that which is in part(μέρος) will be done away. (1Co 13:10 NKJ)

Our "partial" lacks the revelation of God

 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
 13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (1Co 13:9-13 NKJ)


If I were to propose a poor analogy...we, our partial, is a tiny bubble floating in the infinite ocean of essence that is God...one day....God will let the air our of our bubble:

 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. (1Co 15:28 NKJ)

 21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. (Joh 17:21 NKJ)

Therefore it is written:

 22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. (Rev 21:22-23 NKJ)




Prior to the flood, Fallen angels (NEPHILIM) coexisted with the "Sons of God" sent to counter Satan's rebellion on earth. Humans conspired with Satan to seduce these with their daughters, and they too produced hybrid human/angel offspring, the "men of renown"

1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
 3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
 5 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
 6 And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
 7 So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."
 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
 9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.
 (Gen 6:1-9 NKJ)

Observe God blamed man for their fall, for their sin was great, seducing the sons of God sent to help them, an extreme betrayal. But the "sons of God" were not thereby less guilty (2 Pet 2:4 cp Jude 1:6), while not joining Satan's rebellion, for all practical purposes they aided it by also producing hybrid children, abetting  Satan's plan to produce a seed to fight the worman's seed (Gen 3:15).

So God destroys all flesh to wipe out the hybrid humans, but Noah was all human, "perfect in his generations." (Evidently some of those with him were not as some angelic dna survived the flood).

BUT God punished all the angels who sinned, reserving in eternal bonds those "sons of God" for separate judgment from the Nephilim (Fallen Ones), who evidently became the unclean spirits who now roam the earth looking to possess humans and animals because they crave their former physical existence.

Those angels who had stayed with Satan in heaven, in the end time are cast out of heaven and some of these will be allowed to appear on earth physically, just like they did before the flood:

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,
 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. (Rev 12:7-8 NKJ)

How many angels will pretend to be UFO aliens there will be, is debatable. Perhaps only three will appear, an Satanic Trinity under the command of Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet:

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. (Rev 16:13-14 NKJ)

Or perhaps millions of them, I don't know. I do know the strong delusion they seeded the idea of God among men, will be very convincing to all who do not love God with all their heart, soul and mind, by clinging to every word out of His mouth, trusting God's Word of truth above all, even experience itself.

"If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
 2 "and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying,`Let us go after other gods'-- which you have not known--`and let us serve them,'
 3 "you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
 4 "You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.
(Deu 13:1-4 NKJ)

The fallen angels will convince most of the world God doesn't exist, that they are mankind's  benefactors, and that Christ and His angels are the enemy...and will gather the world to fight Christ, at Harmageddon.

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
 17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,
 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great."
 19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

 (Rev 19:11-1 NKJ)

What precisely became of Satan's fallen angels was revealed by Christ. I am still studying the book of Revelation and may yet find this information in its symbols:

41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand,`Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: (Mat 25:41 NKJ)

So God is infinite, nothing in creation or even the sum total of creation, can fight God, with a thought, He can change one or both matrixes, and everything in it:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2Pe 3:10 NKJ)

"Melt" in Greek is LUO, literally "loosed," the very fabric of our Matrix is "loosed" by a thought of God, He changes His Mind, and everything changes....

There is no contest here, only God's plan to reveal Himself to His creation, as righteous, as love, as correct...no more rebellion will exist after He has done all that He has purposed to do...and those who did rebel, will be punished forever.


So back to the point...angels use technology, that is the likely interpretation of Ezekiel c. 1., BUT that doesn't change one iota the message angels spoke for God.

The Bible remains 100% correct, accurate, its our interpretation that needs to change to become consistent with its revelation.

UFO enthusiasts will fall  for the delusion God doesn't exist, because of the evidence in all the holy books, archeological sites, etc...that something more than human beings does exist, and has used technology. So when the aliens land, and proclaim they seeded the idea of God and human soul, MANY will believe it...the "proof" will be standing there before their eyes.

BUT God's elect will not be deceived, they will not fall for the strong delusion:

 24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
 25 "See, I have told you beforehand. (Mat 24:24-25 NKJ)

Here gullible antichrists are contrasted to faithful Christians who love the truth of God's Word (John 17:17) above all else, including their own experiences, and so are not deceived:
[/B]
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(2Th 2:9-14 NKJ)

Spiritism will be a prominent feature of the antichrists, but their rebellion against the Bible identifies the inspiring spirit as NOT the real Jesus Christ:

2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! (Rev 18:2 NKJ)

 20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
 21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
 22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
 23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
 (Mat 7:20-23 NKJ)

 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1Jo 4:6 NKJ)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 03:36:28 PM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #116 on: February 27, 2011, 03:55:12 PM »

Here's the thing Alfred, some of the things you say, I and a few others may agree with. But as Orthodox Christians, when we see someone saying that they know with 100% surety what will take place in the future, we definately shy away. We, as I'm sure you know, believe in the consensus. Your views are individualistic to the extreme. Do I personally think something in the future may occur with UFOs and the Nephilim? Sure I do. But this is my opinion. And within Orthodoxy it is fine to have opinions, but they cannot, and must not be amplified to the point of dogma/doctrine.
Logged
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2011, 04:23:41 PM »

Here's the thing Alfred, some of the things you say, I and a few others may agree with. But as Orthodox Christians, when we see someone saying that they know with 100% surety what will take place in the future, we definately shy away. We, as I'm sure you know, believe in the consensus. Your views are individualistic to the extreme. Do I personally think something in the future may occur with UFOs and the Nephilim? Sure I do. But this is my opinion. And within Orthodoxy it is fine to have opinions, but they cannot, and must not be amplified to the point of dogma/doctrine.

You misunderstood, interpretation is not prophecy...and I often disclaim anything I interpret is received by divine revelation so as to make it prophecy's equivalent.


If revelation is inconsistent with scripture in any detail whatsoever, its not revelation from God.

Although the Holy Spirit rests upon me as warm oil continually, upon the "face" of my inner man. the new creature born when I believed and publicly confessed Jesus Christ is LORD to the glory of God the Father--- and He has NEVER left me or forsaken me for 30+ years ...


I am a cessationist, I don't accept God is revealing things privately, apart from His Word  the Bible.

I do not believe tongues are for our day, I do not believe we are receiving revelations about the end times, or after life etc, through visions, dreams or voices.

If a believer wants to know the 100% truth of those things, he must diligently study the scriptures...the answer is in there, if you really seek it, you will find it...He will open your mind to receive it:

And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. (Luk 24:45 NKJ)


The earnest believer will also avail himself of the teachers God in His grace has sent the church (1 Cor 12:28), remembering

There is no wisdom or understanding Or counsel against the LORD. (Pro 21:30 NKJ)

If any claim to teach by God's grace, but contradict the scripture, there is no light in them:

To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isa 8:20 NKJ)

 28 "The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD. (Jer 23:28 NKJ)

Every time I learn through Bible Study an idea is inconsistent with even the smallest detail of scripture...I repent and believe the scripture---THEN I know the truth, and the truth sets me free.

"For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
 (Mat 5:18 NKJ)

31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.
 32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
(Joh 8:31-32 NKJ)

 17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. (Joh 17:17 NKJ)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 04:27:18 PM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2011, 04:30:28 PM »

Quote
You misunderstood, interpretation is not prophecy...
Call it what you want Alfred...If you still want to insist that you know how the end times will play out, then we will not listen, nor take you seriously.
Logged
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2011, 04:59:19 PM »

nt
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 05:02:07 PM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2011, 05:00:58 PM »

Quote
You misunderstood, interpretation is not prophecy...
Call it what you want Alfred...If you still want to insist that you know how the end times will play out, then we will not listen, nor take you seriously.

I am convinced by the scriptures and events, if you dispute my interpretation, cite the reasons (with the facts you deliberate from) here, and I will discuss it.

THAT is what Christians in the Bible did:

 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.
 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.
 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
 (1Co 14:29-33 NKJ)

"Prophets" in this context = bringing forth God's Word from scripture:

 26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. (1Co 14:26 NKJ)

That these are not "prophets" like the apostles or OT prophets is evident from the fact any "incorrect prophecy" is not immediately condemned  as "false prophecy," ----there is no prescribed punishment if those more versed in the scripture ("others judge") decide the "revelation" is incorrect.

AND Paul expressly denies the "word of God" is being preached by these prophets:

 36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
 (1Co 14:36-37 NKJ)

Therefore these tongues, prophecies, revelations were NOT the inerrant word of God...I equate it to expository preaching found in many churches today...and those who believe God showed opened their mind to see something in scripture...but whether He did or not, can only be determined by those who know the truth of Scripture.

The "spirits of the prophets" are not angelic spirits, they are the human spirits of these people who believe God has shown them something...as we both know, that is often not the case.

BUT their "interpretation/prophecy" was judged by "others" who knew the truth, and the relevant texts that either confirm or refute it...not dismissed as you do on ad hominem grounds, which are unsound, being irrelevant.

I didn't post these things for you to accept them without discussion, or prefer them over your own beliefs...but to test it's soundness...if it can pass scriptural muster...then as scripture is true, its likely correct.

If scripture contradicts a premise or conclusion I put forth, then I recant, for its written:


18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
 19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
 20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. (Mat 5:18-20 NKJ)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 05:14:37 PM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 13,083


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #121 on: February 27, 2011, 07:24:44 PM »

At some risk to my personal reputation, I'd like to mention that I have seen a UFO.

I was driving on the highway to a business appointment, it was early evening, it was not an isolated area.

In the the distance I could see a tremendously bright light, a glowing ball radiating streams of light.The brightness was on the order of burning magnesium. I thought to myself that people who see UFO's often mistake it for the planet Venus. But it was really way too bright and the streams of light were not at all like the glow from a planet.

As I came up to where it was ( Rt. 270 north, at the Rio Center), the ball of light was not the UFO, it was attached to a craft. The ball was a couple of hundred feet above it and connected to it by a thin thread of light.

The craft was  the size of a five story building... It was shaped like two Pyramids stuck together top and bottom. It had two head lights that look just like the retractable head lights on a Chevy Corvette. It was facing DC. For some reason I got the impression they were listing in on something going on there. There is no reason why I would think this, It was just my impression for some reason.

I drove by, mouth open. I didn't know what to do. I kept driving ( Mama didn't raise a dummy) and went to my appointment. I drove back the same way but it was not there.

 It hovered  a couple hundred feet above several large high rise apartment buildings ( The Washingtonian) and the Rio Center which has restaurants and stores. It made a low humming noise.

Did I mention it was the size of a small building? No one could have missed it. I didn't see any reports the next day or ever.
I certainly didn't report it.

I got home and told the wife.. I didn't panic or change my beliefs. I was not any sort of UFO fanatic before or after. I didn't desire to see such a thing. I have just filed the memory away. I have not tried to make anything of it...

So it goes.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 07:36:37 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #122 on: February 27, 2011, 08:38:56 PM »

At some risk to my personal reputation, I'd like to mention that I have seen a UFO.

I was driving on the highway to a business appointment, it was early evening, it was not an isolated area.

In the the distance I could see a tremendously bright light, a glowing ball radiating streams of light.The brightness was on the order of burning magnesium. I thought to myself that people who see UFO's often mistake it for the planet Venus. But it was really way too bright and the streams of light were not at all like the glow from a planet.

As I came up to where it was ( Rt. 270 north, at the Rio Center), the ball of light was not the UFO, it was attached to a craft. The ball was a couple of hundred feet above it and connected to it by a thin thread of light.

The craft was  the size of a five story building... It was shaped like two Pyramids stuck together top and bottom. It had two head lights that look just like the retractable head lights on a Chevy Corvette. It was facing DC. For some reason I got the impression they were listing in on something going on there. There is no reason why I would think this, It was just my impression for some reason.

I drove by, mouth open. I didn't know what to do. I kept driving ( Mama didn't raise a dummy) and went to my appointment. I drove back the same way but it was not there.

 It hovered  a couple hundred feet above several large high rise apartment buildings ( The Washingtonian) and the Rio Center which has restaurants and stores. It made a low humming noise.

Did I mention it was the size of a small building? No one could have missed it. I didn't see any reports the next day or ever.
I certainly didn't report it.

I got home and told the wife.. I didn't panic or change my beliefs. I was not any sort of UFO fanatic before or after. I didn't desire to see such a thing. I have just filed the memory away. I have not tried to make anything of it...

So it goes.

Its likely the "vision" was seen by you alone.

A ufo experience is a paranormal experience, and many who have had them suffer from satanic attacks and find themselves victims paranormal phenomena.

AND repeated "visits".

They are demons and can be driven away just as one drives away evil spirits.

Regardless how Nephilim appear, whether in a dream or vision as a glorious one, or as a UFO alien, they cannot confess Jesus Christ has come in the flesh...when asked to do so, their disguise falls away and you will see them for what they are.  

Nor can demon confess Jesus is LORD, that is implicit in their inability to do so while prophesying through a human agent:  

NKJ 1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:  

2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.  

3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:1-3 NKJ)  

Regardless what the entity claims to be, Mary, Michael, Gabriel, a departed loved one or Bible "saint," ask them to confess Jesus is LORD, that Jesus came in the flesh...and likely their disguise will drop away, and you will see them for that they are.  

If that happens, fear not. Arm yourself with obedience to God's Word:  

13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.  

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,  

15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;  

16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.  

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;  

18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints--  

(Eph 6:13-18 NKJ)  


11 lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2Co 2:11 NKJ)  

No demon can possess a Christian, all they do is from a distance, telepathically they make one believe they hear and see things, touch and smell things, but its a lying vision:

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1Jo 5:18 KJV)

God does not allow they touch us, do not believe their threats, they are bluffing.


Obedience to God saved me, the Holy Spirit brought to my remembrance the above texts when a "glorious one" appeared to me...when asked to confess Jesus came in the flesh...that Jesus is his LORD...his disguise fell and I was snatched away from his realm.

I had to overcome a powerful feeling I was committing blasphemy to ask this being to confess Jesus...but I overcame it, saying to myself, "I must obey God."

Do the same if they return.

I thank God every day for saving me...if it happens to you, obey His Word and test the spirits...and then, so will you.  

 
Evidently they are practicing their future deception, now...Jacques Vallee reports they have tested "beam weapons" on humans, causing physical harm, even death. I can't recall  which of his books that was reported. You should check out his research, "Messengers of Deception" "Revelations: Alien contact and human deception."

Jacques Vallee isn't a Christian, he is a scientist and concludes:

"I propose: that the UFO we see is, among other things, a device which creates a distortion of the witness' reality; that it does so for a purpose which is to project images or fabricated scenes designed to change our belief systems; and that the technology we observe is only the incidental support for a worldwide enterprise of "subliminal seduction."...  

[/I]  

"I believe there is a machinery of mass manipulation behind the UFO phenomenon. It aims at social and political goals by diverting attention from some human problems and by providing a potential release for tensions caused by others. The contactees are a part of that machinery. They are helping to create a new form of belief: an expectation of actual contact among large parts of the public. In turn this expectation makes millions of people hope for the imminent realization of that age-old dream: salvation from above, surrender to the greater power of some wise navigators of the cosmos [/B]."-Jacques Vallee, Messengers of Deception, UFO Contacts and Cults (Daily Grail Publishing, 1979), p. 20.  

 


 

 

 

« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 09:00:42 PM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 13,083


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #123 on: February 27, 2011, 10:54:24 PM »

At some risk to my personal reputation, I'd like to mention that I have seen a UFO.

I was driving on the highway to a business appointment, it was early evening, it was not an isolated area.

In the the distance I could see a tremendously bright light, a glowing ball radiating streams of light.The brightness was on the order of burning magnesium. I thought to myself that people who see UFO's often mistake it for the planet Venus. But it was really way too bright and the streams of light were not at all like the glow from a planet.

As I came up to where it was ( Rt. 270 north, at the Rio Center), the ball of light was not the UFO, it was attached to a craft. The ball was a couple of hundred feet above it and connected to it by a thin thread of light.

The craft was  the size of a five story building... It was shaped like two Pyramids stuck together top and bottom. It had two head lights that look just like the retractable head lights on a Chevy Corvette. It was facing DC. For some reason I got the impression they were listing in on something going on there. There is no reason why I would think this, It was just my impression for some reason.

I drove by, mouth open. I didn't know what to do. I kept driving ( Mama didn't raise a dummy) and went to my appointment. I drove back the same way but it was not there.

 It hovered  a couple hundred feet above several large high rise apartment buildings ( The Washingtonian) and the Rio Center which has restaurants and stores. It made a low humming noise.

Did I mention it was the size of a small building? No one could have missed it. I didn't see any reports the next day or ever.
I certainly didn't report it.

I got home and told the wife.. I didn't panic or change my beliefs. I was not any sort of UFO fanatic before or after. I didn't desire to see such a thing. I have just filed the memory away. I have not tried to make anything of it...

So it goes.

Its likely the "vision" was seen by you alone.

A ufo experience is a paranormal experience, and many who have had them suffer from satanic attacks and find themselves victims paranormal phenomena.

AND repeated "visits".

They are demons and can be driven away just as one drives away evil spirits.

Regardless how Nephilim appear, whether in a dream or vision as a glorious one, or as a UFO alien, they cannot confess Jesus Christ has come in the flesh...when asked to do so, their disguise falls away and you will see them for what they are.  

Nor can demon confess Jesus is LORD, that is implicit in their inability to do so while prophesying through a human agent:  

NKJ 1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:  

2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.  

3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:1-3 NKJ)  

Regardless what the entity claims to be, Mary, Michael, Gabriel, a departed loved one or Bible "saint," ask them to confess Jesus is LORD, that Jesus came in the flesh...and likely their disguise will drop away, and you will see them for that they are.  

If that happens, fear not. Arm yourself with obedience to God's Word:  

13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.  

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,  

15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;  

16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.  

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;  

18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints--  

(Eph 6:13-18 NKJ)  


11 lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2Co 2:11 NKJ)  

No demon can possess a Christian, all they do is from a distance, telepathically they make one believe they hear and see things, touch and smell things, but its a lying vision:

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1Jo 5:18 KJV)

God does not allow they touch us, do not believe their threats, they are bluffing.


Obedience to God saved me, the Holy Spirit brought to my remembrance the above texts when a "glorious one" appeared to me...when asked to confess Jesus came in the flesh...that Jesus is his LORD...his disguise fell and I was snatched away from his realm.

I had to overcome a powerful feeling I was committing blasphemy to ask this being to confess Jesus...but I overcame it, saying to myself, "I must obey God."

Do the same if they return.

I thank God every day for saving me...if it happens to you, obey His Word and test the spirits...and then, so will you.  

 
Evidently they are practicing their future deception, now...Jacques Vallee reports they have tested "beam weapons" on humans, causing physical harm, even death. I can't recall  which of his books that was reported. You should check out his research, "Messengers of Deception" "Revelations: Alien contact and human deception."

Jacques Vallee isn't a Christian, he is a scientist and concludes:

"I propose: that the UFO we see is, among other things, a device which creates a distortion of the witness' reality; that it does so for a purpose which is to project images or fabricated scenes designed to change our belief systems; and that the technology we observe is only the incidental support for a worldwide enterprise of "subliminal seduction."...  

[/I]  

"I believe there is a machinery of mass manipulation behind the UFO phenomenon. It aims at social and political goals by diverting attention from some human problems and by providing a potential release for tensions caused by others. The contactees are a part of that machinery. They are helping to create a new form of belief: an expectation of actual contact among large parts of the public. In turn this expectation makes millions of people hope for the imminent realization of that age-old dream: salvation from above, surrender to the greater power of some wise navigators of the cosmos [/B]."-Jacques Vallee, Messengers of Deception, UFO Contacts and Cults (Daily Grail Publishing, 1979), p. 20.  

 


 

 

 



Hmmmm...Okay. I am in general agreement with you. The idea that I was the only one to see it, as in a vision, makes some sense. I assure you it was physically present. I knew I was looking at something extra-ordinary so I really concentrated on looking hard at it and not making an error about it.

I also agree that UFO phenomena for the most part is demonic in nature and not aliens from other planets, etc....And I've seen one .
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #124 on: February 27, 2011, 11:00:24 PM »

I find it amazing that demons can interfere in this reality to play these kind of tricks on us. I wonder how they get to be manifested into reality though.

Amazing story Marc, I actually beleive you.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #125 on: February 27, 2011, 11:36:19 PM »

I am also largely in agreement with what Alfred said. It is demonic, and absolutely paranormal. And yes, the power of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ can and will repel them.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 11:37:42 PM by PoorFoolNicholas » Logged
celticfan1888
Production Operator - Chemtrusion
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholicism
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of America
Posts: 3,026



« Reply #126 on: February 28, 2011, 12:15:03 AM »

I just dont believe in intelligent extraterrestrial life (but non-intelligent, yes). It would require them to human souls and...yeah.

Plus the panspermia theory has many holes in it.
Logged

Forgive my sins.
TheJackel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Materialist
Posts: 240


« Reply #127 on: February 28, 2011, 09:28:55 AM »

Quote
Mutation is not evolution.

Sorry, but you are wrong.



Incorrect, you are and I am not sorry, I am glad.

Because there is a God, there is hope.

Oh, but lets actually define evolution here Wink

Quote
Evolution (also known as biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in the proportion of individual organisms differing in one or more inherited traits.[1] Inherited traits are particular distinguishing characteristics, including anatomical, biochemical or behavioural characteristics, that result from gene–environment interactions. Evolution may occur when there is variation of inherited traits within a population. The major sources of such variation are mutation, genetic recombination and gene flow

Sorry, but you are entirely wrong Smiley It seems to me that you don't really know what evolution means or is. Thus I hope I can help you better grasp it in a single word: "change"



Mutation is not evolution:

Mutation Fixation: A Dead End for Macro-evolution
by E. Calvin Beisner, M.A.

Most arguments against the possibility of mutation as a mechanism for evolution revolve around two premises: that mutations are almost always harmful, and that the idea of their improving rather than harming organisms is contrary to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which tells us that matter and energy naturally tend toward greater randomness rather than greater order and complexity. These are two sides of the same coin, actually, the latter arguing from principle and the former from empirical observation.

Rarely, though, do arguments against mutation as the mechanism for evolution consider at once the many conditions that must be met if mutation is to bring about macro-evolutionary change (that is, change from one basic kind of life to another). Yet examining the probabilities of these conditions all being met together provides excellent evidence against evolution and in favor of creation.
NINE CONDITIONS FOR MUTATION FIXATION

Fortunately, geneticist R.H. Byles has made the job easy for us by discussing nine important conditions in an article on the subject.


http://www.icr.org/article/270/



This tells me you don't know what gene duplication is, or even the basic understandings of plant evolution.. Sorry but mutation = evolution.  And lastly, you don't comprehend what macro-evolution is apparently, and I can tell that you don't because you are quoting someone who apparrently also doesn't know what it is.. I tell you what, go to youtube and search for "macro-evolution" vs "micro-evolution"..

Logged
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #128 on: February 28, 2011, 10:17:45 AM »

At some risk to my personal reputation, I'd like to mention that I have seen a UFO.

I was driving on the highway to a business appointment, it was early evening, it was not an isolated area.

In the the distance I could see a tremendously bright light, a glowing ball radiating streams of light.The brightness was on the order of burning magnesium. I thought to myself that people who see UFO's often mistake it for the planet Venus. But it was really way too bright and the streams of light were not at all like the glow from a planet.

As I came up to where it was ( Rt. 270 north, at the Rio Center), the ball of light was not the UFO, it was attached to a craft. The ball was a couple of hundred feet above it and connected to it by a thin thread of light.

The craft was  the size of a five story building... It was shaped like two Pyramids stuck together top and bottom. It had two head lights that look just like the retractable head lights on a Chevy Corvette. It was facing DC. For some reason I got the impression they were listing in on something going on there. There is no reason why I would think this, It was just my impression for some reason.

I drove by, mouth open. I didn't know what to do. I kept driving ( Mama didn't raise a dummy) and went to my appointment. I drove back the same way but it was not there.

 It hovered  a couple hundred feet above several large high rise apartment buildings ( The Washingtonian) and the Rio Center which has restaurants and stores. It made a low humming noise.

Did I mention it was the size of a small building? No one could have missed it. I didn't see any reports the next day or ever.
I certainly didn't report it.

I got home and told the wife.. I didn't panic or change my beliefs. I was not any sort of UFO fanatic before or after. I didn't desire to see such a thing. I have just filed the memory away. I have not tried to make anything of it...

So it goes.

Its likely the "vision" was seen by you alone.

A ufo experience is a paranormal experience, and many who have had them suffer from satanic attacks and find themselves victims paranormal phenomena.

AND repeated "visits".

They are demons and can be driven away just as one drives away evil spirits.

Regardless how Nephilim appear, whether in a dream or vision as a glorious one, or as a UFO alien, they cannot confess Jesus Christ has come in the flesh...when asked to do so, their disguise falls away and you will see them for what they are.  

Nor can demon confess Jesus is LORD, that is implicit in their inability to do so while prophesying through a human agent:  

NKJ 1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:  

2 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led.  

3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. (1Co 12:1-3 NKJ)  

Regardless what the entity claims to be, Mary, Michael, Gabriel, a departed loved one or Bible "saint," ask them to confess Jesus is LORD, that Jesus came in the flesh...and likely their disguise will drop away, and you will see them for that they are.  

If that happens, fear not. Arm yourself with obedience to God's Word:  

13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.  

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,  

15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;  

16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.  

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;  

18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints--  

(Eph 6:13-18 NKJ)  


11 lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices. (2Co 2:11 NKJ)  

No demon can possess a Christian, all they do is from a distance, telepathically they make one believe they hear and see things, touch and smell things, but its a lying vision:

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1Jo 5:18 KJV)

God does not allow they touch us, do not believe their threats, they are bluffing.


Obedience to God saved me, the Holy Spirit brought to my remembrance the above texts when a "glorious one" appeared to me...when asked to confess Jesus came in the flesh...that Jesus is his LORD...his disguise fell and I was snatched away from his realm.

I had to overcome a powerful feeling I was committing blasphemy to ask this being to confess Jesus...but I overcame it, saying to myself, "I must obey God."

Do the same if they return.

I thank God every day for saving me...if it happens to you, obey His Word and test the spirits...and then, so will you.  

 
Evidently they are practicing their future deception, now...Jacques Vallee reports they have tested "beam weapons" on humans, causing physical harm, even death. I can't recall  which of his books that was reported. You should check out his research, "Messengers of Deception" "Revelations: Alien contact and human deception."

Jacques Vallee isn't a Christian, he is a scientist and concludes:

"I propose: that the UFO we see is, among other things, a device which creates a distortion of the witness' reality; that it does so for a purpose which is to project images or fabricated scenes designed to change our belief systems; and that the technology we observe is only the incidental support for a worldwide enterprise of "subliminal seduction."...  

[/I]  

"I believe there is a machinery of mass manipulation behind the UFO phenomenon. It aims at social and political goals by diverting attention from some human problems and by providing a potential release for tensions caused by others. The contactees are a part of that machinery. They are helping to create a new form of belief: an expectation of actual contact among large parts of the public. In turn this expectation makes millions of people hope for the imminent realization of that age-old dream: salvation from above, surrender to the greater power of some wise navigators of the cosmos [/B]."-Jacques Vallee, Messengers of Deception, UFO Contacts and Cults (Daily Grail Publishing, 1979), p. 20.  

 


 

 

 



Hmmmm...Okay. I am in general agreement with you. The idea that I was the only one to see it, as in a vision, makes some sense. I assure you it was physically present. I knew I was looking at something extra-ordinary so I really concentrated on looking hard at it and not making an error about it.

I also agree that UFO phenomena for the most part is demonic in nature and not aliens from other planets, etc....And I've seen one .

A vision can be so real, if a cat scratches you during it, your body will retain the scratches when you awake. I've heard its the same for hypnosis. A woman had the marks to prove an abduction experience happened, but she was being filmed at the time, and it didn't show she left the room at all.

However, there's a game changer coming, or may already be in effect. I deduce God restrained unclean spirits from being physical in our realm, after the flood killed their physical bodies...and that fallen angels in general, were also restrained from being physical on  earth...

But it appears this restraint will be lifted in the end time:

 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
 (2Th 2:6-8 NKJ)

 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 (2Th 2:11-12 NKJ)


So what you saw might have been physical, and not a vision...if so that is a cause for rejoicing...it means the end is near...and the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ is also very near:

 32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
 33 "So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near-- at the doors!
 (Mat 24:32-33 NKJ)


Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #129 on: February 28, 2011, 10:29:54 AM »

Quote
Mutation is not evolution.

Sorry, but you are wrong.



Incorrect, you are and I am not sorry, I am glad.

Because there is a God, there is hope.

Oh, but lets actually define evolution here Wink

Quote
Evolution (also known as biological or organic evolution) is the change over time in the proportion of individual organisms differing in one or more inherited traits.[1] Inherited traits are particular distinguishing characteristics, including anatomical, biochemical or behavioural characteristics, that result from gene–environment interactions. Evolution may occur when there is variation of inherited traits within a population. The major sources of such variation are mutation, genetic recombination and gene flow

Sorry, but you are entirely wrong Smiley It seems to me that you don't really know what evolution means or is. Thus I hope I can help you better grasp it in a single word: "change"



Mutation is not evolution:

Mutation Fixation: A Dead End for Macro-evolution
by E. Calvin Beisner, M.A.

Most arguments against the possibility of mutation as a mechanism for evolution revolve around two premises: that mutations are almost always harmful, and that the idea of their improving rather than harming organisms is contrary to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which tells us that matter and energy naturally tend toward greater randomness rather than greater order and complexity. These are two sides of the same coin, actually, the latter arguing from principle and the former from empirical observation.

Rarely, though, do arguments against mutation as the mechanism for evolution consider at once the many conditions that must be met if mutation is to bring about macro-evolutionary change (that is, change from one basic kind of life to another). Yet examining the probabilities of these conditions all being met together provides excellent evidence against evolution and in favor of creation.
NINE CONDITIONS FOR MUTATION FIXATION

Fortunately, geneticist R.H. Byles has made the job easy for us by discussing nine important conditions in an article on the subject.


http://www.icr.org/article/270/



This tells me you don't know what gene duplication is, or even the basic understandings of plant evolution.. Sorry but mutation = evolution.  And lastly, you don't comprehend what macro-evolution is apparently, and I can tell that you don't because you are quoting someone who apparrently also doesn't know what it is.. I tell you what, go to youtube and search for "macro-evolution" vs "micro-evolution"..



You have an agenda, hence you ignored that scholarly thesis proving the improbability of mutation being the mechanism for evolution.

Evolution does not happen, if it did, high school kids would be doing experiments demon stating the process.

NOTHING evolves...and the critically challenged can't process that...For example, so called "vestigial organs" (tonsils, tail bone) are (or were) cited as proof of evolution, when in fact becoming "less complex" proves the opposite, devolution.

The Cambrian Fossils of Chengjian, China:
http://www.amazon.com/Cambrian-Fossils-Chengjiang-China-Flowering/dp/1405106735

They are the nail in the coffin of evolution, some of these fossils even retain the shape of fleshly organs...an incredible find.

These fossils prove life exploded on the planet, not evolved.

Michael J Behe described several features of living cells that were unknown to Darwin, that are irreducibly complex. Google it.

But you don't care about that, you just pray God doesn't exist, that He won't judge you for your crimes...

He will.
Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #130 on: February 28, 2011, 03:03:42 PM »

Quote
So what you saw might have been physical, and not a vision...if so that is a cause for rejoicing...it means the end is near...and the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ is also very near:
No it doesn't mean the End is near. You don't know that and neither do we.

As an aside, I still have a lot of repenting to do here on earth, so I hope the Lord in His mercy gives all of us more time.
Logged
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #131 on: March 01, 2011, 12:31:41 AM »

Quote
So what you saw might have been physical, and not a vision...if so that is a cause for rejoicing...it means the end is near...and the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ is also very near:
No it doesn't mean the End is near. You don't know that and neither do we.

As an aside, I still have a lot of repenting to do here on earth, so I hope the Lord in His mercy gives all of us more time.

Well, we both know this for certain:

for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. (Rom 13:11 NKJ)

Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #132 on: March 01, 2011, 09:29:31 AM »

I just dont believe in intelligent extraterrestrial life (but non-intelligent, yes). It would require them to human souls and...yeah.

Plus the panspermia theory has many holes in it.

The one thing I am certain of, IF there is extraterrestrial intelligent life, it was created by God, and subservient to God.

Any life claiming God doesn't exist, is lying or completely deceived.

Of course the panspermia theory has holes in it...God created all things just as scripture says..

But if alleged ufo aliens land, claim the Cambrian strata's explosion of life is the work of their scientists, many will believe them...just as they now prefer evolution to the idea of God.

But its called a "falling away" by Paul in 2 Th c. 2, because religious people lose their faith in God...

That would require an earth shattering event...something truly "wondrous," and an actual "ufo landing" would certainly meet and exceed that requirement.

All over the net people are already rejecting God, in favor of ufo aliens. If ufo aliens aren't part of satan's plan to install his Antichrist and new religion...it would be strange indeed...inexplicable why he wouldn't use such an obvious deception that already fools so many.




« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 09:32:05 AM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
TheJackel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Materialist
Posts: 240


« Reply #133 on: March 02, 2011, 03:11:30 PM »

Quote
You have an agenda, hence you ignored that scholarly thesis proving the improbability of mutation being the mechanism for evolution.

You might actually want to google beneficial mutation Wink There are literally thousands of examples.. Reading a religious scholarly thesis on evolution is like reading a childs dick and Jane book. No offense, you really need to investigate things before making arguments such as the above. I gave you gene duplication as an example for a reason Wink And plants routinely evolve through mutation. Mutation just doesn't involve loss of information, or it can involve in replacement of information with new information. And regardless, evolution doesn't state that a beneficial change will occur lol. You have a very poor understanding what evolution is. It only states that a change will occur, and any change from it's previous state is evolution whether or not it's good or bad, or even causes the organism to go instinct.
Logged
Alfred Persson
Jesus is LORD, God the Eternal Son
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant but no Filioque
Jurisdiction: usa
Posts: 1,207


Primitive Orthodox


« Reply #134 on: March 03, 2011, 09:41:43 AM »

Quote
You have an agenda, hence you ignored that scholarly thesis proving the improbability of mutation being the mechanism for evolution.

You might actually want to google beneficial mutation Wink There are literally thousands of examples.. Reading a religious scholarly thesis on evolution is like reading a childs dick and Jane book. No offense, you really need to investigate things before making arguments such as the above. I gave you gene duplication as an example for a reason Wink And plants routinely evolve through mutation. Mutation just doesn't involve loss of information, or it can involve in replacement of information with new information. And regardless, evolution doesn't state that a beneficial change will occur lol. You have a very poor understanding what evolution is. It only states that a change will occur, and any change from it's previous state is evolution whether or not it's good or bad, or even causes the organism to go instinct.

For argument's sake, suppose I accept those cited as real examples of beneficial mutation, the paltry number of them actually prove the case against evolution:

The Natural Direction of Life Is Degeneration, Not Evolution

Mutations in the genomes of organisms are typically nearly neutral, with little effect on the fitness of the organism. However, the accumulation of deleterious (harmful) mutations does occur and the accumulation of these mutations leads to genetic degeneration.
http://www.icr.org/mutation/

The Cambrian strata's explosion of life proves evolution is not the mechanism.

The fossils prove an intelligence did it, which is why the ufo alien lie their scientists did it, will be so believable to those who reject God.

In any unbiased critical analysis, "Evolutionists" lose the argument---the facts are overwhelmingly against them:

http://www.intelligentdesign.org/

You should argue this on another thread. I don't have the time, or the desire, to joust with you about it.

For me, this is a settled issue, the Cambrian fossils constitute an overwhelming mass of irrefutable evidence intelligent design explains the variety of life on this planet.


The growing debate now is whether God is the intelligence behind it, or ufo alien scientists...

Satan's front groups are already preaching the new paradigm:
http://www.rael.org/

Christians know God did it, the lie the entire world will accept, is ufo alien scientists did it.

Evolution is completely discredited because its probability is infinitesimal,  incalculably minute.

Its so antiquated.

Sad actually. Like watching the obstinate stand against the incoming tide, desperately hoping to survive the waves...clutching their copies of Darwin's "The Origin of the Species" with white knuckles, screaming that life is so unfair...their entire life's work, their degrees...repudiated by the facts...darn darn darn it...




« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 10:09:29 AM by Alfred Persson » Logged

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. (Rom 1:18-19 NKJ)
Tags: Alfred's back! Stargate 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.227 seconds with 72 queries.