Author Topic: Can the damned love God?  (Read 1236 times)

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Offline William

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Can the damned love God?
« on: January 18, 2011, 11:35:47 PM »
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the damned hate God and are impenitent. At least that's what the Catholic Encyclopedia says.

What's the Orthodox stance on this? Is it possible for a damned person to appreciate the fact that God's judgment is righteous and that they deserve their suffering?

I'd like to acknowledge that I know that the Orthodox don't dogmatically define every little detail of the afterlife and acknowledge that in the end it's mostly a mystery. And that in Orthodoxy, Hell is (sometimes?) seen as the presence of God which manifests itself as pain for the unrepentant. I'd just like to know if there are any Fathers who have said anything about this.

Thank you.  :)
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 11:50:19 PM »
You should spend less time contemplating on hell, and more time focusing on heaven.

These things neither eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor heart can contemplate.  So why bother wonder if you do what is righteous?
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Offline William

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 12:40:17 AM »
You should spend less time contemplating on hell, and more time focusing on heaven.

These things neither eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor heart can contemplate.  So why bother wonder if you do what is righteous?
That sounds like a good idea.

Can a mod lock/delete this thread please?
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Russell

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 02:14:27 AM »
What's the Orthodox stance on this? Is it possible for a damned person to appreciate the fact that God's judgment is righteous and that they deserve their suffering?

I am not sure what you mean by a damned person. 
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Offline Rafa999

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 11:04:30 AM »
The Fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom so I think it is a good idea to think about God's wrath as much as possible. Work out your salvation in Fear and trembling.

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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 12:41:37 PM »
The Fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom so I think it is a good idea to think about God's wrath as much as possible. Work out your salvation in Fear and trembling.

"A Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful, and a good defense before the dread judgement seat of Christ, let us ask of the Lord."

I think we keep God's wrath and judgment in our minds. Yet, we also must remember His grace:

"Help us, save us, have mercy upon us, and keep us, O God, by Thy grace."
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 12:51:09 PM »
Perfect love casts out fear, says the Apostle John.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 05:51:59 PM »
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the damned hate God and are impenitent. At least that's what the Catholic Encyclopedia says.

What's the Orthodox stance on this? Is it possible for a damned person to appreciate the fact that God's judgment is righteous and that they deserve their suffering?

I'd like to acknowledge that I know that the Orthodox don't dogmatically define every little detail of the afterlife and acknowledge that in the end it's mostly a mystery. And that in Orthodoxy, Hell is (sometimes?) seen as the presence of God which manifests itself as pain for the unrepentant. I'd just like to know if there are any Fathers who have said anything about this.

Thank you.  :)
How does one know who is "damned" or not?

What does "damned" mean, anyway?
If you will, you can become all flame.
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Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 06:09:49 PM »
What's the Orthodox stance on this? Is it possible for a damned person to appreciate the fact that God's judgment is righteous and that they deserve their suffering?

I am not sure what you mean by a damned person. 

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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 06:12:53 PM »
What's the Orthodox stance on this? Is it possible for a damned person to appreciate the fact that God's judgment is righteous and that they deserve their suffering?

I am not sure what you mean by a damned person. 

Apostates like me, GIC, and Entscheidungsproblem?  :angel:
You're not damned. You're simply problematic.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Cognomen

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 06:43:48 PM »
How does one know who is "damned" or not?

What does "damned" mean, anyway?

I think the OP was asking about someone who has already been damned, which in that case, I think one would have a solid idea that they belonged to the aforementioned group.  ;D

I've thought about this question as well.  Would we be able to accept the justness of the decision? 
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 06:46:41 PM »
How does one know who is "damned" or not?

What does "damned" mean, anyway?

I think the OP was asking about someone who has already been damned, which in that case, I think one would have a solid idea that they belonged to the aforementioned group.  ;D

I've thought about this question as well.  Would we be able to accept the justness of the decision? 

Who has already been damned? We haven't had the Last Judgment yet.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Cognomen

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 07:07:59 PM »
Who has already been damned? We haven't had the Last Judgment yet.

My wording was ambiguous and confusing.  I should have stated that following the Last Judgment, will those who are damned be able to accept the justness of their judgment?

My understanding, however, is that Particular Judgment will give us a foretaste of either heaven or hell.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 07:11:06 PM by Cognomen »
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 09:05:28 PM »
The idea that God would fail to, or lack the desire to, redeem someone who loves Him seems pretty ridiculous to me. The logical implication as such, is that the only ones who will not be redeemed will be those who hate God, if there are any.
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Offline Rafa999

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Re: Can the damned love God?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 10:53:09 PM »
The idea that God would fail to, or lack the desire to, redeem someone who loves Him seems pretty ridiculous to me. The logical implication as such, is that the only ones who will not be redeemed will be those who hate God, if there are any.


The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.

For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.


- Ecclesiastes 12:13

Psalm 111:10 also says :

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom;
         A good understanding have all those who do His commandments;
         His praise endures forever.



"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
-John 14:21


Have Wisdom and keep Understanding as a close relative as King Solomon says in Proverbs and never let go.

I heard the Egyptian Saint Anthony the Great when dying and leaving this earth suddenly Satan appeared to him and said "No! You have escaped me!". Abba Anthony replied "No, I have not- only when my two feet rest with God". He to me is a good model of how we should proceed in life.
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