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Ortho_cat
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« on: January 18, 2011, 06:45:11 PM » |
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I was just curious, is there a particular variety of wine that is typically used at the altar? Also, does the wine come from specific vineyards that were blessed for that purpose?
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mike
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2011, 06:48:01 PM » |
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Red, grape, alcoholic and sweet.
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« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 06:49:35 PM by Michał Kalina »
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augustin717
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 06:49:45 PM » |
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It was homemade, back home. Quite sour, from what I remember.
I would say, there is no universal rule.
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quietmorning
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2011, 07:38:41 PM » |
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Red, grape, alcoholic and sweet.
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Margaret S.
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2011, 07:50:48 PM » |
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I remember my sf announcing to a congregation once, "If this tastes more like dinner than Our Lord, don't worry" which, being translated, meant he'd sent the sub-deacon to the liquor store.
Regards,
Margaret
in Edinburgh
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 03:41:05 AM » |
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I know a priest who will use nothing but Kagor Garling. 16%. It is in a liqueur type bottle which has a church with Russian domes on the label.
He's a bit of a connoisseur of wines. On the other hand his father and grandfather were priests so he may just be continuing a family tradition.
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 03:45:15 AM » |
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Found a photo on the Web.
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stashko
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2011, 03:50:12 AM » |
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Here in the U. S. not sure about Other Places...
Serbian Orthodox Church uses the Kosher wines, Mogen David and Manashevitzes..Not Sure if there Used For Holy Communion though because they have sulfites in them ,,But they do for the Bride and Groom in drinking from the common cup at a marrage ceremony also at the Memorial Service in Blessing the wheat dish koljivo with wine ..Plus the body at the funeral service ,and Grave with the kosher wine.....
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« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 04:16:39 AM by stashko »
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 ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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synLeszka
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 05:17:48 AM » |
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Vi ste koserni hrisćijani, vi srbi?  You are kosher christians, you serbs? |
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stashko
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 05:20:51 AM » |
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Vi ste koserni hrisćijani, vi srbi? You are kosher christians, you serbs? It maybe the same in serbija like it is here in the U. S. kosher wines are used......... You can call us if you want Kosher Serbs, we don't mind ... |
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« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 05:38:12 AM by stashko »
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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Nigula Qian Zishi
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 09:51:14 AM » |
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Here in the U. S. not sure about Other Places...
Serbian Orthodox Church uses the Kosher wines, Mogen David and Manashevitzes..Not Sure if there Used For Holy Communion though because they have sulfites in them ,,But they do for the Bride and Groom in drinking from the common cup at a marrage ceremony also at the Memorial Service in Blessing the wheat dish koljivo with wine ..Plus the body at the funeral service ,and Grave with the kosher wine.....
I was always told Manichevez was ok for the post-communion wine, but not to become the blood itself. |
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Punch
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 12:08:02 PM » |
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The Serbian Church that I attend uses Mavrodaphne.
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Orthodox only because of God and His Russians.
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Opus118
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 12:15:19 PM » |
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Typically, Mavrodaphne or St. John Commandaria.
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augustin717
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 12:58:02 PM » |
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Plus the body at the funeral service ,and Grave with the kosher wine..... We do that, as well. Not the "kosher" part, but the priest pours a glass of wine crosswise into the coffin saying, IIRC, "you will sprinkle me with hyssop, and I shall be clean, you shall wash me and I will be wither than snow". I didn't see this elsewhere, although it is no surprise the Serbs do it. |
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stashko
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2011, 01:53:10 PM » |
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I watched a u-tube Romainian Funeral, i did notice the Father . Pouring Wine First covering the face then pouring cross wise ,,same we serb do it... we are the same it looks like ,plus were so close , we share a border..... Plus the body at the funeral service ,and Grave with the kosher wine..... We do that, as well. Not the "kosher" part, but the priest pours a glass of wine crosswise into the coffin saying, IIRC, "you will sprinkle me with hyssop, and I shall be clean, you shall wash me and I will be wither than snow". I didn't see this elsewhere, although it is no surprise the Serbs do it. |
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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Ortho_cat
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2011, 02:46:28 PM » |
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Here in the U. S. not sure about Other Places...
Serbian Orthodox Church uses the Kosher wines, Mogen David and Manashevitzes..Not Sure if there Used For Holy Communion though because they have sulfites in them ,,But they do for the Bride and Groom in drinking from the common cup at a marrage ceremony also at the Memorial Service in Blessing the wheat dish koljivo with wine ..Plus the body at the funeral service ,and Grave with the kosher wine.....
I was always told Manichevez was ok for the post-communion wine, but not to become the blood itself. For what reason would this be? |
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stashko
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« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2011, 06:49:59 AM » |
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I do not Approve..... I would prefer ROCOR went with Kosher wine instead ....... I know that in one part of the world the ROCOR church has been getting its communion wine from a Jesuit monastery out of town. (I don't think stashko would approve .....  ) |
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 07:00:10 AM by stashko »
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2011, 07:00:47 AM » |
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I wonder who made the wine that Jesus and the Apostles used...  |
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Optimist: Throw enough ideas at the wall and one is bound to stick.
Pessimist: Throw enough poo at the wall and the room is bound to stink.
Realist: You don't really need to throw things at walls to solve problems.
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LBK
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2011, 07:02:46 AM » |
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I do not Approve..... I would prefer ROCOR went with Kosher wine instead ....... Bit late now, stashko. They've been using it for at least 50 years. |
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stashko
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2011, 07:12:20 AM » |
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Maybe the serbian Orthodox Church Got a great deal On buying Bulk Kosher wines thats why they used it when i served as a altar boy...,,if I remember ill ask when i go to church if kosher wines, are the norm for All the serbian Orthodox Churches use......
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2011, 07:17:42 AM » |
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From an old Serbian Prota:
Najbolje je ono vino iz vinograda u Jerusalimu koje je bilo na Tajnoj veceri..........
Mnogi prave razna vina.......
Za mene licno je svako vino dobro i za sveti oltar prikladno, ako ga domacin sa
poboznoscu i cistotom napravi od cista grozdja i sa verom Hramu donese !
The best wine is that from the vineyard in Jerusalem which was used at the Mystical supper.......
Many people make different wines....
For me personally every wine is good and suitable for the holy altar, if the head of the house makes it with piety and purity from pure grapes and brings it to the Church with faith in Christ.
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stashko
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2011, 07:21:08 AM » |
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Fr . Bless Does that mean many different Jewish wines that are Kosher wine from Israel jerusalem..... What about wine that has sulfites a preservative in it, is that allowed to be used for Holy communion... From an old Serbian Prota:
Najbolje je ono vino iz vinograda u Jerusalimu koje je bilo na Tajnoj veceri..........
Mnogi prave razna vina.......
Za mene licno je svako vino dobro i za sveti oltar prikladno, ako ga domacin sa
poboznoscu i cistotom napravi od cista grozdja i sa verom Hramu donese !
The best wine is that from the vineyard in Jerusalem which was used at the Mystical supper.......
Many people make different wines....
For me personally every wine is good and suitable for the holy altar, if the head of the house makes it with piety and purity from pure grapes and brings it to the Church with faith in Christ.
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 07:26:58 AM by stashko »
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2011, 07:28:05 AM » |
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Fr . Bless Does that mean Jewish wine Kosher wine from Israel jerusalem.....
I don't think so. I think the Prota means that that wine was the very best wine but it was a once only event and we shall never have that wine again. Where did it come from? Did Peter have a small vineyard? Matthew? The answer lies in the next world. |
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stashko
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2011, 07:30:21 AM » |
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Oce Blagoslovi.....Fr. Deacon Nebojsa Serb 1389 mention in a thread , and confirmed to me kosher wine is used in the serbian church.... I remember opening the Kosher bottles and tranfering the wine to glass containers,forgot name of the glass containers but they look like the ones one would pour vinegar from and oil on to a salad... From an old Serbian Prota:
Najbolje je ono vino iz vinograda u Jerusalimu koje je bilo na Tajnoj veceri..........
Mnogi prave razna vina.......
Za mene licno je svako vino dobro i za sveti oltar prikladno, ako ga domacin sa
poboznoscu i cistotom napravi od cista grozdja i sa verom Hramu donese !
The best wine is that from the vineyard in Jerusalem which was used at the Mystical supper.......
Many people make different wines....
For me personally every wine is good and suitable for the holy altar, if the head of the house makes it with piety and purity from pure grapes and brings it to the Church with faith in Christ.
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 07:48:06 AM by stashko »
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2011, 07:36:25 AM » |
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What about wine that has sulfites a preservative in it, is that allowed to be used for Holy communion...
Strictly speaking No! The wine used for Holy Communion has to be living wine, still fermenting wine, and not wine in which the life of the yeast has been stopped by sulfites. These days in the cities it is difficult to find wines which are still living and working and most parishes use "stopped" wines. Living wine has become a luxury in villages. |
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Irish Hermit
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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2011, 07:38:41 AM » |
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Oce Blagoslovi.....Fr. Deacon Nebojsa Serb 1389 mention in a thread ,
and confirmed to me kosher wine is use in the serbian church....
I would prefer wine made by the hands of Christians, just as I want the prosphora/nafora bread to be made by Christians. |
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stashko
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« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2011, 07:46:53 AM » |
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Thanks Fr. For all this information.... I read the ingredient on the bottles and it said sulfites added i think to stop fermentation or a preservative.....
What about wine that has sulfites a preservative in it, is that allowed to be used for Holy communion...
Strictly speaking No! The wine used for Holy Communion has to be living wine, still fermenting wine, and not wine in which the life of the yeast has been stopped by sulfites. These days in the cities it is difficult to find wines which are still living and working and most parishes use "stopped" wines. Living wine has become a luxury in villages. |
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 07:56:50 AM by stashko »
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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stashko
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« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2011, 07:52:12 AM » |
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I had a Memorial at St. Sava Monastery at the grave site for mom and dad ..The priest opened up a bottle of Mogen David and poured it in a sign of the cross on there graves......If i remember i ask a serbian Father what wine is used for Holy Communion....
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 08:08:17 AM by stashko »
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ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН. |
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Nigula Qian Zishi
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« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2011, 10:08:55 AM » |
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Here in the U. S. not sure about Other Places...
Serbian Orthodox Church uses the Kosher wines, Mogen David and Manashevitzes..Not Sure if there Used For Holy Communion though because they have sulfites in them ,,But they do for the Bride and Groom in drinking from the common cup at a marrage ceremony also at the Memorial Service in Blessing the wheat dish koljivo with wine ..Plus the body at the funeral service ,and Grave with the kosher wine.....
I was always told Manichevez was ok for the post-communion wine, but not to become the blood itself. For what reason would this be? The wine used for Holy Communion has to be living wine, still fermenting wine, and not wine in which the life of the yeast has been stopped by sulfides. It also must be pure grapes with no other additives. |
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Schultz
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« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2011, 11:31:43 AM » |
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Oce Blagoslovi.....Fr. Deacon Nebojsa Serb 1389 mention in a thread ,
and confirmed to me kosher wine is used in the serbian church....
I remember opening the Kosher bottles and tranfering the wine to glass containers,forgot name of the glass containers but
they look like the ones one would pour vinegar from and oil on to a salad...
They're called cruets. |
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2011, 11:53:43 AM » |
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Michael's answer is still the best: the wine is "red, grape, alcoholic and sweet." As a practical matter, most of the red sweet wines are quite expensive and it would be extravagant indeed to mix such expensive wine with water (warm water to boot!). Ergo, Mogen David and other such sweet red wines..because their cost is reasonable (and because they are not consumed as wine.)
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 11:54:23 AM by Second Chance »
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Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
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Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
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Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,934
May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
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« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2011, 12:07:52 PM » |
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I was just curious, is there a particular variety of wine that is typically used at the altar? Also, does the wine come from specific vineyards that were blessed for that purpose? There are a few varieties of wine that are more popular; Mavrodaphne from Greece/Peloponnesos (which isn't a brand, but variety, like Merlot), Commandaria from Cyprus (again, variety) are two that come to mind. I've seen a number of parishes that use the kosher wines (Manichewiz/Mogen David), but I think in the few instances they did so because they didn't have an importer and the people who donated brought those varieties. |
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"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
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Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
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mike
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« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2011, 02:32:10 PM » |
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In Poland most popular are Bulgarian and Moldovan Kagors. They are even sold with icons on labels.
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« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 02:33:13 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Tikhon.of.Colorado
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Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Denver
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« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2011, 02:37:59 PM » |
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we use "Concord Red Wine" that comes in a big glass jug. it is way to easy to drop, and I think that that's the reason why the carpet in the altar is red!  |
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"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
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