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Author Topic: Pro-Life Women Forcibly Dragged From John Kerry Abortion Rally  (Read 8487 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2004, 12:43:27 PM »

I find it interesting that no one that I can remember had criticized President Clinton when he unleashed his cruise missles into Bagdad in 1998.  Our intelligence at that time targeted a "milk factory" as producing chemical agents.   (by the way it dosnt take too much effort in converting these manufacturing plants to produce these toxins) Do you think that he was convinced that Saddam had these WMD or the wherewithall to produce them?

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« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2004, 02:00:40 PM »

"Do you think that he was convinced that Saddam had these WMD or the wherewithall to produce them?"

Perhaps he was, but even if that is the case, it simply serves as an indictment of our intelligence community.  Langley needs to be overhauled.  We need to put more money into CIA and we need to start playing spy again, be willing to get our hands dirty, be willing to deal with less than savoury people to collect human intelligence, because obviously our expensive high-tech eyes in the sky are not cutting it.  That should have been clear to everyone after 9/11, and the fact that Bush has not done much to address that falls to his discredit.

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« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2004, 03:59:19 PM »

Step back ya'll because Nacho's in da house!!!

Whoaa, I can see I caused a mini civil war in here Wink

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So Kerry is a bad Catholic.

Big understatement. What's the point of calling yourself "Catholic" if you don't believe in it???

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At least he isn't a fundamentalist Protestant.

Jennifer, what are you talking about??? Bush is not a fundamentalist protestant. He grew up anglican & now attends a left of center Methodist Church. I have never heard Bush go on TV & "pray in the name of jesus" or say he's doing this in "jesus name." You have no idea what you are talking about & should stick to the facts.

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Yes, and there is a difference between a government of politicians who happen to be Protestant and Calvin's Geneva.

So Bush is a Protestant.

I really don't see what the big deal is either. It seems that some Orthodox really have knee jerk reactions just because Bush is a protestant. Some should read the story about the good samariton. His beleifs were less than perfect, but atleast he did the right thing when those who had the right beleif did nothing. Bush may beleive in some bad theology, but in God's eyes he is in much better standing that the fakes like Kerry that betray thier faith on a daily basis. I'll vote for the Protestant with bad theology all day long than the fakes in the democratic party that love to play church.

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He isn't just a guy who hasn't been to confession in a few months.
He is a promoter of the killing of millions of unborn babies.
That is more than merely being "a bad Catholic."
I don't like fundamentalist Protestantism either, but better a fundamentalist Protestant on the side of life than a hypocrite Catholic who panders to the disciples of death.

Very well said.... You know that when someone betrays the life of the innocent, more than likely it will affect thier beleifs in other areas. I can't put good faith in the secularist because they don't have solid principles to live by. They are ussually more ego centric also due to thier humanistic philosophy.

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And Bush is far from a "fundamentalist" Protestant.  He's a very mainstream Protestant

I laugh when people keep repeating this lie. If he is such a fundamentalist, why is he so silent about it??? Why no Pat Robertson 700 Club invitations, or TBN invintations?? Bush, on his own time has not even worshipped with any of these groups.....But he's a "fundamentalist" because people want to beleive the big lie. This was probably derived from leftist propaganda.

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Then how is it wrong? And if Saddam never had WMDs, then why did he refuse to allow the weapons inspectors into Iraq? Do tell.

He obviously had something to hide prior to the war. I mean, John Kerry, Bill Clinton & most of the democrat party told us that he had WMD's & is a threat.




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« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2004, 04:05:38 PM »

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Attacking another country simply to remove the government is not acceptable.
 

Sure it is, when that government is murdering its own people and is a threat to this country.


While I support the second half of your statement, it is not this country nor any country's job to become embroiled in the civil conflicts of other sovereign nations.  Did not Washington say as much in his Farewell Address?  For someone who's as conservative as you are, Linus, this statement surprises me.
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« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2004, 04:07:02 PM »

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Big understatement. What's the point of calling yourself "Catholic" if you don't believe in it???

I'm sure this question should be asked of over half of the self-professed "Catholics" in this country, many of whom don't even believe in the most basic Eucharistic doctrines.  

But I do see your point Smiley
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« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2004, 05:25:31 PM »

"I mean, John Kerry, Bill Clinton & most of the democrat party told us that he had WMD's & is a threat."

Meaning that our intelligence community is a ship of fools right now.  The difference, however, is that Bush was put on notice about this after 9/11 -- he should have fixed intelligence between then and the Iraq war, but he idn't and so the intelligence community let our country down again, in a big way. That's Bush's responsibility, and it should cost him his job.

I don't support Kerry either, so don't hit me with comparisons between Kerry and Bush.  
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« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2004, 08:34:25 PM »

Brendan, you are not the only one who may sit out this election.  I honestly cannot bring myself to vote for either Bush or Kerry.  I believe Bush was looking for every excuse he could to go to war in Iraq.  He wanted to go in there from the beginning and right his father's mistake of leaving Saddam in power the last time.  The WMD excuse was bad enough, but the one that really bothered me was the excuse that we needed to save all those innocent people that he was killing.  That hadn't been going on since Saddam had been in power?  His father didn't know that this was going on when we went in there the first time?  I believe we did know, but he decided to leave him in power.  Where was the concern for the innocent Iraquis before GW Bush wanted to go to war over there?  We didn't give a rip about the innocent Iraqui people before then.
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« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2004, 08:37:00 PM »

One of the things that especially bothers me about President Bush is that the first thing he wants to do when we have a problem is to go to war over it.  I think Prime Minister Blair had to lean on him quite heavily to get him to wait as long as he did.  Is it the Christian response to want to go to war right off the bat without trying every peaceful means to resolve the situation first?
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« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2004, 10:07:11 PM »

The U.S. stood by and watched the U.N. sanctions against Saddams regime violated some 17 times over the course of 12 years. It took from 1991 to 2003 for us to go to war against Saddam.  I think we have to look at this in its proper perspective.  I would hardly consider our moves to replace Saddam as an impulsive action. The first thing Bush did was not invade Iraq but to land troops in Afghanistan and defeat AlQuaida and Osama.  

JoeS


One of the things that especially bothers me about President Bush is that the first thing he wants to do when we have a problem is to go to war over it.  I think Prime Minister Blair had to lean on him quite heavily to get him to wait as long as he did.  Is it the Christian response to want to go to war right off the bat without trying every peaceful means to resolve the situation first?  
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« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2004, 04:57:20 AM »

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One of the things that especially bothers me about President Bush is that the first thing he wants to do when we have a problem is to go to war over it.  I think Prime Minister Blair had to lean on him quite heavily to get him to wait as long as he did.  Is it the Christian response to want to go to war right off the bat without trying every peaceful means to resolve the situation first?

Wow!! Where have you been the last decade?? How much patience should we have?? 17 broken resolutions & the inspectors getting kicked out of Iraq on numeous occasions wasn't enough time for you?? Even with the buildup to war & many warnings over a 1 year period that Mr. Bush gave to Sadam to resolve this in a peaceful manner was not satisfactory??? We gave Sadam all the time neccessary to allow the weapons inspectors back in & he decided not to cooperate with us or the UN.  Even after they were booted out, President Bush gave Sadam many chances to resolve this in a peaceful manner.
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« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2004, 05:13:13 AM »

I have to agree with you here, Nacho.
60 YEARS after WWII we are still debating "what Roosevelt knew and when did he know it". At least the country back then had the fortitude to win the war FIRST, then engage in pointless finger-pointing.
The members of my family who lived directly under the moslem scourge have now passed on, but they made certain I know what that scourge was (and still is).
The stunning naviete of the current 'west' including America is only playing into the hands of the enemy.
Demetri
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« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2004, 07:33:26 AM »

But Demetri, we can't go to war with the Muslim world, that is absolute madness.  And this isn't like WWII, Saddam never attacked us, and it's pretty clear that his regime was not closely linked to Al-Qaida (there has been no evidence of that, and, again, if there were we would be getting spammed with that evidence by the administration) ... of course, thanks to us, now Irq is likely riddled with Al-Qaida types, so much for advancing the war on terror.

As for all the nonsense about the UN resolutions, what kind of precedent does this set? When Iran decides to give the finger to the nuclear inspectors, what are we goiong to do? Set a deadline and then attack Iran? What happens if Pakistan gets an Islamist regime? Do we attack  them too, simply because they have WMDs in the form of nuclear weapons?  I think that the policy of the administration here is not well-though-out, and that is because it is all about Iraq in particular, and not about any more general principles or strategy.  It is about finishing what we didn't do in 91 and, more personally for GWB, avenging the assassination attempt made on Bush Sr. in Kuwait at that time.  GWB has a conflict of interest when it comes to Iraq.

Nacho, your candidate is supporting the Woodward book, it is posted on the campaign website.  You should read it.  It paints the picture of a terrifyingly unreflective president, one who was bent on attacing Iraq well before 9/11, one who is so slef-convinced that he doesn't even consult key members of his own administration before making critical decisions like whether to go to war or not.  It really is a terrifying portrait ... we have an unreflective, impulsive, self-convinced crusader as President.  Having now read that book, there is no way I could possibly vote for this person again.

Brendan
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« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2004, 11:09:34 AM »

Also, Bush reminds me of a bully who threatens to beat you up if you don't do what he wants you to.  Bush just threatens to send in our troops.  If you remember, last summer he wanted to send them into Liberia.  Of course, he's not the one that gets killed when the people decide to fight back.  That's why we have so many body bags coming back.  And, for the record, I had as much trouble with Clinton pulling this as I do Bush.  Let's face it, if foreign troops were occupying our country, we'd be doing the same things the Iraqui people are doing.  We have discovered that they have no WMD and Saddam is out of power.  Since we've captured him, he isn't going to be back in power.  What are we still doing there?  

We say we believe in freedom, but we interfere in other countries' freedom to do the things that are right for them and the freedom to disagree with us.  How often does the CIA and other organizations interfere with the politics of other countries to get rid of ones we don't like and get ones in there that we do.  I don't think the American people would like it if other countries did that to us, so why do we do it?    Personally, I believe that Russia and France made the right decision not to join us in the war on Iraq.  It's too bad that Bush took us in.
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« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2004, 11:53:52 AM »

Also, Bush reminds me of a bully who threatens to beat you up if you don't do what he wants you to.  Bush just threatens to send in our troops.  If you remember, last summer he wanted to send them into Liberia.  
Regardless of what we think of Bush, I have to take issue with your statement about Liberia.  It was actually the Europeans, including the French who wanted the US to take a leading role in preventing another bloodbath.  With all else going on in the world, I can't imagine Bush wanting to get involved in a non-strategic country such as Liberia.  The US (under both political parties) has encouraged the west African countries to help police their own region, and in fact a West African peace keeping force is ultimately what helped restore order.  A small contingent of US troops went into Liberia with the West Africans troops for about a 2 month span last year to help transition the nation to a peaceful state.  You don't hear much about Liberia now because the operation was a success, and Liberia is now in a rebuilding phase.
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« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2004, 12:25:20 PM »

But Demetri, we can't go to war with the Muslim world, that is absolute madness.  And this isn't like WWII, Saddam never attacked us, and it's pretty clear that his regime was not closely linked to Al-Qaida (there has been no evidence of that, and, again, if there were we would be getting spammed with that evidence by the administration) ... of course, thanks to us, now Irq is likely riddled with Al-Qaida types, so much for advancing the war on terror.

Brendan03,
I am no warmonger. the president has said this is not a religious war. I believe that only to an extent. Where I disagree is that if one side attacks from a religious basis and the other side merely defends itself - it's still a religious war. No, it's not against Islam any more than our fighting "Christian" Nazis was fighting Christianity.

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As for all the nonsense about the UN resolutions, what kind of precedent does this set? When Iran decides to give the finger to the nuclear inspectors, what are we goiong to do? Set a deadline and then attack Iran? What happens if Pakistan gets an Islamist regime? Do we attack  them too, simply because they have WMDs in the form of nuclear weapons?  I think that the policy of the administration here is not well-though-out, and that is because it is all about Iraq in particular, and not about any more general principles or strategy.  It is about finishing what we didn't do in 91 and, more personally for GWB, avenging the assassination attempt made on Bush Sr. in Kuwait at that time.  GWB has a conflict of interest when it comes to Iraq.

I'm sure that's your 'take' and I can respect your views. But if the UN's part in this is nonsense, as you say, what does that say to the politics of rapproachment and appeasement (which never has worked). If the UN is moot, why have it? I am all for moving the blasted thing to Jerusalem, declaring that city to be an international city, paying the Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem, oh, 10 billion for all non-ecclesiatical property and then see how fast those those prima-donnae solve the problems over there.
WMDs? It took years for details of Nazi AND Japanese heavy-water experiments to come to light (and neither of them was trying overly much to hide the programs). My problem now is not whether Saddam had weapons such as these, but where are they now. I'm afraid we'll find out sooner rather than later. If you wish to fret over their existence, fine with me. I hope whoever is in the White House next round keeps looking - or we'll hear more of this "what did they know and when, blah, blah, blah..." stuff.

Our enemy is smarter than we are admitting.

Demetri



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