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Offline ChristusDominus

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Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« on: January 16, 2011, 09:33:42 PM »
The first Anglican ordinariate will be canonically established this weekend. John Broadhurst, Andrew Burnham and Keith Newton, having resigned their positions as bishops in the Church of England and having been received into the Catholic Church on New Year’s Day, will be ordained to the Catholic priesthood at Westminster Cathedral on Saturday, Jan. 15.

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/anglican-ordinariate-arrives/
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Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2011, 10:07:03 PM »
The first Anglican ordinariate will be canonically established this weekend. John Broadhurst, Andrew Burnham and Keith Newton, having resigned their positions as bishops in the Church of England and having been received into the Catholic Church on New Year’s Day, will be ordained to the Catholic priesthood at Westminster Cathedral on Saturday, Jan. 15.

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/anglican-ordinariate-arrives/
While I would much rather them become Orthodox, I am happy for them and very much respect them for making the move. :)

In Christ,
Andrew
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2011, 10:09:38 PM »
small steps... ;)

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2011, 10:18:13 PM »
small steps... ;)
Very true. We have a former Anglican priest, turned RC priest that attends DL at our parish. It can and does happen. :)

I know Rowan Williams can't be happy about his priests leaving. I almost feel sorry for him, but people can only put up with the waffling of the Anglican communion for so long. :-\

In Christ,
Andrew
"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

Offline Fr Spyridon

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2011, 02:40:00 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

Offline Aindriú

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2011, 03:38:46 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 03:39:20 PM by Azurestone »

I'm going to need this.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2011, 04:06:54 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.
 We'll see how well they survive their Alexis Toth-Archbishop Irleand moment. Given the problems over mandated clerical celibacy, it should be any time now.

Btw, thier problems with Cantebury are not as complicated as you make it.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 04:09:13 PM by ialmisry »
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Offline SubdeaconDavid

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2011, 04:24:45 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.
  This is certainly the case with some of those who want to be "Western-rite".  Some would prefer to be small "o" orthodox Anglicans rather than Orthodox Christians.  Some would happily keep using their Book of Common Prayer or English Missal and just add the names of their Orthodox bishop.  For most of them this is also because they consider their sacraments as Anglicans valid.  Of course it is a very very hard thing to say that the confessions one made as an Anglican lacked grace. An issue I faced.

There is also the risk in Western-rite Orthodoxy of being cut off from mainstream Orthodoxy physically and culturally.  With everything available in English, with convert priests and bishops and with all "ethnic" Orthodox Churches being multi-cultural in their faithful, the best place for Orthodox converts is the mainstream.
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Offline SubdeaconDavid

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2011, 04:28:06 PM »
small steps... ;)
Very true. We have a former Anglican priest, turned RC priest that attends DL at our parish. It can and does happen. :)

I know Rowan Williams can't be happy about his priests leaving. I almost feel sorry for him, but people can only put up with the waffling of the Anglican communion for so long. :-\

In Christ,
Andrew
I feel sorry for Rowan Williams also.  A decent man in many ways and a good scholar, but nonetheless a scholar who has tolerated his Church adopting un-tenable positions on the ordination of women, sexuality and liturgy and he wonders why both Roman Catholics and Orthodox don't follow suit.  Mind you, advocates of the ordination of women in RC churches exist.
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2011, 04:41:37 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.

That remains to be seen.  In the last sizeable conversion of Anglican clergy in the UK to Roman Catholicism under Cardinal Hume most of them returned to Anglicanism.  The common reason given was their inability to acculturate within modern English Roman Catholicism.  Their acceptance of the Roman Catholic Church as "the fullness of the Christian faith" faded rapidly in the cold light of day.

The new Ordinariate is a brilliant scheme which should help to lessen that problem for this new influx.

Offline Aindriú

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2011, 04:53:04 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.
 We'll see how well they survive their Alexis Toth-Archbishop Irleand moment. Given the problems over mandated clerical celibacy, it should be any time now.

Btw, thier problems with Cantebury are not as complicated as you make it.

I don't think there is any illusion of future ordinariate priests expecting to have th ability to marry. They are a function within the Latin Rite and are only protected through their form of liturgy. I don't know what shock you are expecting. The ordinariate is created specifically to protect the Anglican liturgy.

The writing is on the wall for Anglicanism. The ecclesial wound that is now infected in the US is spreading, and the Anglican church is powerless to stop it. The ordinariate is the 'out' the traditional Anglicans were looking for. Anyone not taking it or Orthodoxy (which has it's own issues accepting Western Rites), are doomed to try an weather the storm.

I'm going to need this.

Offline Aindriú

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2011, 04:54:52 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.

That remains to be seen.  In the last sizeable conversion of Anglican clergy in the UK to Roman Catholicism under Cardinal Hume most of them returned to Anglicanism.  The common reason given was their inability to acculturate within modern English Roman Catholicism.  Their acceptance of the Roman Catholic Church as "the fullness of the Christian faith" faded rapidly in the cold light of day.

The new Ordinariate is a brilliant scheme which should help to lessen that problem for this new influx.

Agreed.

I'm going to need this.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2011, 05:40:16 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.
 We'll see how well they survive their Alexis Toth-Archbishop Irleand moment. Given the problems over mandated clerical celibacy, it should be any time now.

Btw, thier problems with Cantebury are not as complicated as you make it.

I don't think there is any illusion of future ordinariate priests expecting to have th ability to marry. They are a function within the Latin Rite and are only protected through their form of liturgy. I don't know what shock you are expecting.

The shock already being expressed by Latin rite followers of the Vatican bumping into married Anglican usage priests.  The example of their married priests has already provided fodder for dissidents among the Latin rite.

Quote
The ordinariate is created specifically to protect the Anglican liturgy.

Quote
The writing is on the wall for Anglicanism.
Don't need to be Daniel to read that.
Quote
The ecclesial wound that is now infected in the US is spreading, and the Anglican church is powerless to stop it. The ordinariate is the 'out' the traditional Anglicans were looking for.

we'll see how far out they go.

Quote
Anyone not taking it or Orthodoxy (which has it's own issues accepting Western Rites),

I'm afraid I have to concede that to you. Maybe we can sift the wheat from the chaff of those dillusioned by this scheme, and others who do not fall for it.

Quote
are doomed to try an weather the storm.
It's neither a storm nor even a storm season, but a catastrophic weather pattern of ice age proportions.

Very little will remain of Anglicanism to even worry about accepting their orders by economia, as they fracture and chip at the basis of any concession on the part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.  Little remains from what they could have stood on as little as less than a century and a half ago.
http://anglicanhistory.org/orthodoxy/rgc/01.html

Tbe Oxform movement called the Anglican church as a whole to show their cards, and they are folding.
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Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2011, 06:18:29 PM »
These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.

Taken them a long time to figure it out but, true, they're not converting because of women clergy as they've happily had them around since '92 when the truly principled (on the subject of women clergy) left. These guys held on to their stipends and their status right until the moment women might have authority over them. Admirable indeed.

Regards,
Margaret
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Offline Aindriú

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2011, 06:50:42 PM »
These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.

Taken them a long time to figure it out but, true, they're not converting because of women clergy as they've happily had them around since '92 when the truly principled (on the subject of women clergy) left. These guys held on to their stipends and their status right until the moment women might have authority over them. Admirable indeed.

Regards,
Margaret
in Edinburgh

Just a symptom of the continued erosion of what little Tradition remains.

I think it's been long figured out, as can be seen by the factions and cliques withing Anglicanism, but it's reached a point where certain things are being forced as acceptance (and Popeye can't stands it no more).

I'm going to need this.

Offline Robb

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2011, 10:15:20 PM »
Will thse priest be able to continue in their roles as bishops, or due they have to renonce their episcopacy because they are/might be married?

If this is the case then can't Rome just give them a dispensation to continue serving as married bishops?  I'm sure that its possible to do this, its a shame that these men will have to be reduced down to the level of priest after having been in the position of bishops.

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Offline Robb

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2011, 10:24:39 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.



That remains to be seen.  In the last sizeable conversion of Anglican clergy in the UK to Roman Catholicism under Cardinal Hume most of them returned to Anglicanism.  The common reason given was their inability to acculturate within modern English Roman Catholicism.  Their acceptance of the Roman Catholic Church as "the fullness of the Christian faith" faded rapidly in the cold light of day.

The new Ordinariate is a brilliant scheme which should help to lessen that problem for this new influx.


This is an interesting story (It sounds  alot like my own experiences with Traditional/Latin Mass Catholicism).  I find that a lot of ideas may look good on paper or within the depths of ones own mind, but they end up being far more difficult, if not completely unobtainable in real life.  I've been through the convert it-us phase myself and found that, while it may be easy to convert to another church or religion, its entirely another thing to convert to the culture that always accompanies these religions.  I know that a lot of people on this list have become OC from various other backrounds and have experienced much, much difficulty finding acceptance within their new church homes.
This is why I have come to, at present take kind of a dime view on conversion.  Its hard for people who were born into not just  RELIGION, BUT THE WAY OF LIFE AND OUTLOOK ON THE WORLD THAT GOES ALONG WITH THEIR RELIGION TO JUST DETACH THEMSELVES COMPLETELY FROM THOSE THINGS AND DIVE INTO A WHOLE NEW RELIGIOUS/SOCIAL OUTLOOK.  To people that do this successful or with little trouble, congratulations, but this isn't always an easy task for many to accomplish.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 10:25:54 PM by Robb »
Men may dislike truth, men may find truth offensive and inconvenient, men may persecute the truth, subvert it, try by law to suppress it. But to maintain that men have the final power over truth is blasphemy, and the last delusion. Truth lives forever, men do not.
-- Gustave Flaubert

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2011, 10:39:15 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.
 We'll see how well they survive their Alexis Toth-Archbishop Irleand moment. Given the problems over mandated clerical celibacy, it should be any time now.

Btw, thier problems with Cantebury are not as complicated as you make it.

I don't think there is any illusion of future ordinariate priests expecting to have th ability to marry. They are a function within the Latin Rite and are only protected through their form of liturgy. I don't know what shock you are expecting. The ordinariate is created specifically to protect the Anglican liturgy.

I think you are mistaken.  I think there will be a mix of married and celibate clergy but there will always be married clergy as long as the ordinariate continues.  The mechanism is in place to insure that there will be married Anglo-Catholic priests.

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2011, 11:29:51 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.
 We'll see how well they survive their Alexis Toth-Archbishop Irleand moment. Given the problems over mandated clerical celibacy, it should be any time now.

Btw, thier problems with Cantebury are not as complicated as you make it.

I don't think there is any illusion of future ordinariate priests expecting to have th ability to marry. They are a function within the Latin Rite and are only protected through their form of liturgy. I don't know what shock you are expecting. The ordinariate is created specifically to protect the Anglican liturgy.

I think you are mistaken.  I think there will be a mix of married and celibate clergy but there will always be married clergy as long as the ordinariate continues.  The mechanism is in place to insure that there will be married Anglo-Catholic priests.
I thought I remembered reading that married Anglo-Catholic priests will eventually be phased out, though. Can you imagine the uproar it would cause among the Latins, at least the ones I've spoken to on various RC fora who are already peeved that their EC brethren have the potentiality to be ordained but they don't.

If the married Anglo-Catholic priesthood is retained, do you suppose it would lift the discipline of a mandatory celibate priesthood for the Latins? Just curious.

In Christ,
Andrew
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Offline Aindriú

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2011, 11:32:49 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.
 We'll see how well they survive their Alexis Toth-Archbishop Irleand moment. Given the problems over mandated clerical celibacy, it should be any time now.

Btw, thier problems with Cantebury are not as complicated as you make it.

I don't think there is any illusion of future ordinariate priests expecting to have th ability to marry. They are a function within the Latin Rite and are only protected through their form of liturgy. I don't know what shock you are expecting. The ordinariate is created specifically to protect the Anglican liturgy.

I think you are mistaken.  I think there will be a mix of married and celibate clergy but there will always be married clergy as long as the ordinariate continues.  The mechanism is in place to insure that there will be married Anglo-Catholic priests.

Newly ordained? That will be interesting to see if true; the Roman Rite-ers' reaction, especially so.

I'm going to need this.

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2011, 11:45:19 PM »
Will thse priest be able to continue in their roles as bishops, or due they have to renonce their episcopacy because they are/might be married?

If this is the case then can't Rome just give them a dispensation to continue serving as married bishops?  I'm sure that its possible to do this, its a shame that these men will have to be reduced down to the level of priest after having been in the position of bishops.



Oh, no, none of these men are remaining bishops.    In all fairness, Rome didn't consider any of them to be even priests until they joined the Ordinariate.  But no, not a one will "remain" a bishop, and good on Rome for that.
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Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2011, 12:33:52 AM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.
 We'll see how well they survive their Alexis Toth-Archbishop Irleand moment. Given the problems over mandated clerical celibacy, it should be any time now.

Btw, thier problems with Cantebury are not as complicated as you make it.

I don't think there is any illusion of future ordinariate priests expecting to have th ability to marry. They are a function within the Latin Rite and are only protected through their form of liturgy. I don't know what shock you are expecting. The ordinariate is created specifically to protect the Anglican liturgy.

I think you are mistaken.  I think there will be a mix of married and celibate clergy but there will always be married clergy as long as the ordinariate continues.  The mechanism is in place to insure that there will be married Anglo-Catholic priests.

Newly ordained? That will be interesting to see if true; the Roman Rite-ers' reaction, especially so.
LOL. See what I mean?

My apologies to EM: I forgot about the dynamic with the Easterners in submission, espcially in the diaspora.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 12:34:59 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline Fr Spyridon

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2011, 03:04:23 PM »
With all due respect I have to disagree. If the Church of England wasn't planning women bishops they'd "happily" stay where they are. I know quite a few Anglican clergy who groaned in '92 but then compromised because of their stipend and pensions. A few of them are old enough to be able to now follow their conscience (!) but some of my younger Anglican clergy friends are now facing really tough decisions.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2011, 04:02:45 PM »
Mind you, advocates of the ordination of women in RC churches exist.

Haha, they were out in force in London during the ordinations last weekend:


Offline Aristobolus

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2011, 01:47:40 AM »
"Tbe Oxform movement called the Anglican church as a whole to show their cards, and they are folding."

Brilliant observation!  It seems that those who get close to the flame of Truth, and who do not embrace it, are burned by the fire.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 01:49:13 AM by Aristobolus »

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Anglican Ordinariate Arrives
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2011, 10:54:23 PM »
This is a complicated issue for those involved. While I hope they find peace by moving to the Roman church I suspect the wholesale embrace of a completely different tradition on the basis of women bishops may prove to be harder than imagined. However, friends inform me that others who have made the same journey now practise what appears like Anglicanism in all but name. I am not so keen for Anglicans to turn to Orthodoxy on the basis of a rejection of their own tradition. To be Orthodox is to embrace the fullness of the Church and its life, not a switch because the old place doesn't suit any more. Of course, for some, it is the realisation that where they are presently is nolonger theologically sound, that leads them to search out and find the truth. But beware opening the doors to all who would rush in before asking why they come and who they seek.

These people aren't converting because of women clergy. That's a severe oversimplification of the problem in the Anglican communion. Women clergy is a symptom of the issue.

They are converting because they believe the RCC holds the fullness of the Christian faith.
 We'll see how well they survive their Alexis Toth-Archbishop Irleand moment. Given the problems over mandated clerical celibacy, it should be any time now.

Btw, thier problems with Cantebury are not as complicated as you make it.

I don't think there is any illusion of future ordinariate priests expecting to have th ability to marry. They are a function within the Latin Rite and are only protected through their form of liturgy. I don't know what shock you are expecting. The ordinariate is created specifically to protect the Anglican liturgy.

I think you are mistaken.  I think there will be a mix of married and celibate clergy but there will always be married clergy as long as the ordinariate continues.  The mechanism is in place to insure that there will be married Anglo-Catholic priests.
I thought I remembered reading that married Anglo-Catholic priests will eventually be phased out, though. Can you imagine the uproar it would cause among the Latins, at least the ones I've spoken to on various RC fora who are already peeved that their EC brethren have the potentiality to be ordained but they don't.

If the married Anglo-Catholic priesthood is retained, do you suppose it would lift the discipline of a mandatory celibate priesthood for the Latins? Just curious.

In Christ,
Andrew

No.  I don't think that the Roman rite tradition will be changed.   There is no need for that to change.

Simply allow those with traditions of married clergy to continue on as they have been for centuries and allow the Roman rite the same.

There are profound benefits to both married and un-married clergy.

M.