Author Topic: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...  (Read 6579 times)

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Offline Punch

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2011, 04:33:34 PM »
People have been trying to label the Elder as an extremist for a while. The truth is, and I have been to St. Anthony's, it is a beautiful monastery with wonderful monks. The Elder Ephraim is a good man who truly follows the writings of the fathers. Apparently agreeing with the church fathers is now grounds for being a nut.

You have a point for sure.  I know that the OP article was supposed to slander the Elder, but the more that I read, the more I like the Elder.  A lot of what he says could have been taken right out of books like the "Ladder".
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2011, 04:34:23 PM »
I suppose the problem I have with the site (after closing down the pop-ups that told me I could find a new mate or collect $1 million), is the repetitive use the word 'destructive' without defining it.

My objection here is that you cannot accuse the monastery of being 'destructive' unless you can prove that it has 'destroyed' people.  I would like them to better explain their position in that regard.  It would also be helpful to compare the actual number of people who are 'injured' to the mean average of people who have unfavorable results from joining another group, such as the Marine Corps or Overeaters Anonymous or a Pentacostal worship group.  Then, if the site can establish that more people are injured on average by being part of the monastery than other 'non-cult' groups, then I would take it seriously.  Right now, i do not take the 'destructive' accusation seriously because there is no evidence to do so.

This repeated use of the word "destructive" without evidence is likely an appeal to emotion. Rile up your audience with the use of emotive, extreme words, and some will likely believe whatever you have to say, regardless of how false it is.
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Offline Antonis

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2011, 04:35:51 PM »
I suppose the problem I have with the site (after closing down the pop-ups that told me I could find a new mate or collect $1 million), is the repetitive use the word 'destructive' without defining it.

My objection here is that you cannot accuse the monastery of being 'destructive' unless you can prove that it has 'destroyed' people.  I would like them to better explain their position in that regard.  It would also be helpful to compare the actual number of people who are 'injured' to the mean average of people who have unfavorable results from joining another group, such as the Marine Corps or Overeaters Anonymous or a Pentacostal worship group.  Then, if the site can establish that more people are injured on average by being part of the monastery than other 'non-cult' groups, then I would take it seriously.  Right now, i do not take the 'destructive' accusation seriously because there is no evidence to do so.

This repeated use of the word "destructive" without evidence is likely an appeal to emotion. Rile up your audience with the use of emotive, extreme words, and some will likely believe whatever you have to say, regardless of how false it is.
I'd venture to say the article itself is using "mind control."  :D
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2011, 06:49:29 PM »
The quickest and easiest way to brain-washed is to be born.
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Offline Saint Iaint

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2011, 07:29:48 PM »
Have you read the article? The author is not suggesting that Orthodoxy itself is a cult, but that St. Anthony's Monastery in which he was involved is.

Dear ozgeorge,

Thanks for the reply.

Perhaps you're right about the article itself... I was referring more to some of the responders here.

"Mind-control" & "Cult" both carry negative connotations.

The Church is a call to morality and communion with the Messiah.

If it's the truth - then it's not a cult. If we are returning to our natural state (Theosis) - then it's not mind-control...

Rather it is being healed. It's therapy; it's mind-restoration.

~~~ ~~~ ~~~

Dear PetertheAleut,

I like this:

Quote from: PetertheAleut
“This repeated use of the word "destructive" without evidence is likely an appeal to emotion.

Rile up your audience with the use of emotive, extreme words, and some will likely believe whatever you have to say, regardless of how false it is.”
-   PetertheAleut

I hope you won't mind if I use it.

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Offline Jetavan

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2011, 07:55:30 PM »
We should all be aware of the Tnevnoc cult!

"This paper will attempt to demonstrate that what is currently termed the “cult menace”(particularly as it relates to recruitment, socialization and social organization) is not a novel development on the American religious scene.  On the contrary, throughout our history the appearance of new religious movements has aroused very similar fears and accusations.  Specifically we shall examine the recruitment and indoctrination practices of the Tnevnoc Cult, a communal, sectarian group affiliated with a large and powerful international religious organization.  Both the Tnevnocs and the larger parent body were targets of social repression in America during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.  Since we are concerned primarily with recruitment and socialization in relation to contemporary charges of manipulation and mind control, we shall focus only on the parallels between the Tnevnocs and such contemporary groups as the Unification Church and Hare Krishna, not on larger traditions or parent bodies of the groups of either era.  The Tnevnocs no longer are as visible or as controversial as they once were due to a gradual trend toward accommodation both by the movement and by powerful institutions within American society.  However, as we document in the ethnographic composite which follows, many of the recruitment and socialization practices of even the accommodated twentieth century Tnevnocs were rigidly segregated by sex and our data deal only with the female Tnevnoc component, we make no claim to generalize to the entire movement.
....
Like their modern-day counterparts in the current “cult explosion,” such as the Unification Church and the Divine Light Mission, the Tnevnocs made a point of attempting to recruit members when they were still in their teenage and young adult years.  This age cohort, Tnevnoc leaders recognized, was the least encumbered by domestic and occupational responsibilities, and its members were, not surprisingly, highly susceptible to idealistic, altruistic appeals.  Much of this recruitment was openly conducted in schools and on campuses.  On the basis of limited contacts with cult members, young girls were induced to commit themselves totally to the cult.  If the cult succeeded in gaining control over them, it subjected them to such thorough indoctrination that they became totally dependent on the cult and in many cases lacked the will to free themselves from it...."










Of course, Tnevnoc is "convent" spelled backwards. :o
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 07:58:19 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline Cymbyz

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2011, 08:49:18 PM »
Hmmmmm, Tnevnoc is Convent spelled backwards.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2011, 08:55:46 PM »
This repeated use of the word "destructive" without evidence is likely an appeal to emotion. Rile up your audience with the use of emotive, extreme words, and some will likely believe whatever you have to say, regardless of how false it is.
There seems to be some evidence in this news report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZLXa7zLMk4
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Offline jckstraw72

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2011, 01:11:18 AM »
aah come on! that news report is such a joke. its abundantly obvious that neither the reporter nor the concerned parents know nothing about monasticism.

and that guy likes to say how they told him to live like an angel with his wife, but i have read elsewhere that he was told to live like an angel with his legal wife until they had a Church wedding, which would be completely understandable. i dont know if thats true, but it at least demonstrates the possibility that the monastery is being mis-represented.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2011, 01:32:39 AM »
I had some communication with an unhappy parent of a monk in an 'Ephraimite' monastery.  The primary objection really seemed to be that Elder Ephraim had encouraged the young man to take up a life-direction that the parent had not planned out for the son.  In the end, it just looked like a classic 'power struggle,' though the parent saw it as a struggle with Elder Ephraim when it was really with the son who was asserting his own rights to live life as he saw fit.

That being said, I was never able to get the parent to see that there might be more to the story.  The parent was convinced that only the plans he/she had were the right ones.

My own personal opinion is that parents would have an easier time accepting their offspring's monastic vocation if they had more children.  If you have three or four or five, you won't mind it as much if one goes off to be a monk.  However, if you have only one child and that one grows up to be a monastic, you can kiss having grandchildren good-bye.   :'(
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Re: The 8 Marks of a Mind-Control Cult (EO as a Cult)...
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2011, 02:18:57 AM »
A link back to the last time we discussed the subject of the Ephraimite Monasteries at length:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,17649.0.html

A very balanced discussion of the issues that draws from a variety of different perspectives
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 02:19:30 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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