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Author Topic: Administrative responsibilities of the modern Papacy  (Read 1704 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 14, 2011, 04:07:55 PM »

Quote from: news.yahoo.com
VATICAN CITY – The pope on Friday approved a miracle attributed to Pope John Paul II's intercession and set May 1 as the date for his beatification, an event that will be a major morale boost for a church reeling from a wave of violence against Christians and fallout from the clerical sexual abuse scandal.

Rest here.

By beatifying the man who head the Church amid it? Weird.
Contrary to popular belief, the Pope is not running every aspect of Parish and Diocese.
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 04:12:45 PM »

Quote from: news.yahoo.com
VATICAN CITY – The pope on Friday approved a miracle attributed to Pope John Paul II's intercession and set May 1 as the date for his beatification, an event that will be a major morale boost for a church reeling from a wave of violence against Christians and fallout from the clerical sexual abuse scandal.

Rest here.

By beatifying the man who head the Church amid it? Weird.
Contrary to popular belief, the Pope is not running every aspect of Parish and Diocese.

Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Again. Small problem folks. He is *just* the Pope after all.
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 04:30:58 PM »

Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Again. Small problem folks. He is *just* the Pope after all.

First time I've heard an EO criticize the Bishop of Rome for not micromanaging bishops. Guess there is a first time for everything.
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Papist
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2011, 04:33:03 PM »

Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Again. Small problem folks. He is *just* the Pope after all.

First time I've heard an EO criticize the Bishop of Rome for not micromanaging bishops. Guess there is a first time for everything.
My thoughts exactly.
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« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2011, 04:34:52 PM »


Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Gosh, taking steps to counteract heresy? We wouldn't want that from the Roman Pontiff, would we? In fact, he was very fair in dealing with Sister Pantsuit and Father Bolshevik. Even too fair.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 04:35:20 PM by lubeltri » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 04:38:20 PM »

Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Again. Small problem folks. He is *just* the Pope after all.

First time I've heard an EO criticize the Bishop of Rome for not micromanaging bishops. Guess there is a first time for everything.
My thoughts exactly.

LOL @ your response. Denial is wonderful. Yes, micromanaging = criminal negligence.

BTW, I am not an EO.
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« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2011, 04:40:46 PM »


Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Gosh, taking steps to counteract heresy? We wouldn't want that from the Roman Pontiff, would we? In fact, he was very fair in dealing with Sister Pantsuit and Father Bolshevik. Even too fair.

Oh yes, those terrible heresies which he went out of his way to correct locally and ostensibly cost folks their lives, but hey, let's leave the global criminal conspiracy to cover the child abuse up to the local Bishops.

Sound pastoral priorities there.

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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2011, 04:51:09 PM »


Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Gosh, taking steps to counteract heresy? We wouldn't want that from the Roman Pontiff, would we? In fact, he was very fair in dealing with Sister Pantsuit and Father Bolshevik. Even too fair.

Oh yes, those terrible heresies which he went out of his way to correct locally and ostensibly cost folks their lives, but hey, let's leave the global criminal conspiracy to cover the child abuse up to the local Bishops.

Sound pastoral priorities there.


I don't get it. You expect one man to micromanage a world-wide instituion of 1 billion members? Honestly, I think that no matter what actions the Pope takes, you people would find a reason to be mad.
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2011, 04:59:50 PM »


Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Gosh, taking steps to counteract heresy? We wouldn't want that from the Roman Pontiff, would we? In fact, he was very fair in dealing with Sister Pantsuit and Father Bolshevik. Even too fair.

Oh yes, those terrible heresies which he went out of his way to correct locally and ostensibly cost folks their lives, but hey, let's leave the global criminal conspiracy to cover the child abuse up to the local Bishops.

Sound pastoral priorities there.


I don't get it. You expect one man to micromanage a world-wide instituion of 1 billion members? Honestly, I think that no matter what actions the Pope takes, you people would find a reason to be mad.

Not mad at anyone. The Pope comes out and clearly states the issue and instructs everyone down the chain to openly work with law enforcement.

NBD. Why didn't Pope John Paul II do it? You'll have to ask him. Why is he being beatified so quickly? Why not let the current investigations into the global criminal conspiracy of the RCC to allow child abusers avoid civil authorities take its time and see how the facts turn out?
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2011, 05:00:58 PM »


Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Gosh, taking steps to counteract heresy? We wouldn't want that from the Roman Pontiff, would we? In fact, he was very fair in dealing with Sister Pantsuit and Father Bolshevik. Even too fair.

Oh yes, those terrible heresies which he went out of his way to correct locally and ostensibly cost folks their lives, but hey, let's leave the global criminal conspiracy to cover the child abuse up to the local Bishops.

Sound pastoral priorities there.


I don't get it. You expect one man to micromanage a world-wide instituion of 1 billion members? Honestly, I think that no matter what actions the Pope takes, you people would find a reason to be mad.

Again. Not micro-managing. Making a clear statement is not micro-managing. And you all created the Papacy problem, not the rest of us.
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2011, 05:12:52 PM »


Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Gosh, taking steps to counteract heresy? We wouldn't want that from the Roman Pontiff, would we? In fact, he was very fair in dealing with Sister Pantsuit and Father Bolshevik. Even too fair.

Oh yes, those terrible heresies which he went out of his way to correct locally and ostensibly cost folks their lives, but hey, let's leave the global criminal conspiracy to cover the child abuse up to the local Bishops.

Sound pastoral priorities there.


I don't get it. You expect one man to micromanage a world-wide instituion of 1 billion members? Honestly, I think that no matter what actions the Pope takes, you people would find a reason to be mad.

Again. Not micro-managing. Making a clear statement is not micro-managing. And you all created the Papacy problem, not the rest of us.
Jesus created the "Papacy Problem"  Cheesy
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2011, 05:15:38 PM »


Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Gosh, taking steps to counteract heresy? We wouldn't want that from the Roman Pontiff, would we? In fact, he was very fair in dealing with Sister Pantsuit and Father Bolshevik. Even too fair.

Oh yes, those terrible heresies which he went out of his way to correct locally and ostensibly cost folks their lives, but hey, let's leave the global criminal conspiracy to cover the child abuse up to the local Bishops.

Sound pastoral priorities there.


I don't get it. You expect one man to micromanage a world-wide instituion of 1 billion members? Honestly, I think that no matter what actions the Pope takes, you people would find a reason to be mad.

Again. Not micro-managing. Making a clear statement is not micro-managing. And you all created the Papacy problem, not the rest of us.
Jesus created the "Papacy Problem"  Cheesy

In the latter part of the 11th century. Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2011, 05:46:55 PM »

No matter how many times you repeat "global criminal conspiracy", that doesn't make it true. Back up your accusation with evidence or keep quiet. Over and out. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2011, 08:04:45 PM »

No matter how many times you repeat "global criminal conspiracy", that doesn't make it true. Back up your accusation with evidence or keep quiet. Over and out. Roll Eyes

I deal with enough folks in denial to know when to stop.

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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2011, 08:35:04 PM »

Quote from: news.yahoo.com
VATICAN CITY – The pope on Friday approved a miracle attributed to Pope John Paul II's intercession and set May 1 as the date for his beatification, an event that will be a major morale boost for a church reeling from a wave of violence against Christians and fallout from the clerical sexual abuse scandal.

Rest here.

By beatifying the man who head the Church amid it? Weird.
Contrary to popular belief, the Pope is not running every aspect of Parish and Diocese.
So he just claims all the authority, but assumes none of the responsibility.  I guess the lira doesn't stop there.
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2011, 08:37:44 PM »

So he just claims all the authority, but assumes none of the responsibility.  I guess the lira doesn't stop there.

 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2011, 08:41:09 PM »

Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Again. Small problem folks. He is *just* the Pope after all.

First time I've heard an EO criticize the Bishop of Rome for not micromanaging bishops. Guess there is a first time for everything.
you would think he could keep his curia in line.  Maybe that's why he called some of them closer to home, to keep an eye on them. Or out of reach of the law.
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2011, 08:43:23 PM »


Yes it was a small problem only within a few parishes. No one near him including the current Pope had no knowledge of anything going on. They had bigger fish to fry, like hanging out to dry nuns to stop the widespread of "liberation theology."

Gosh, taking steps to counteract heresy? We wouldn't want that from the Roman Pontiff, would we? In fact, he was very fair in dealing with Sister Pantsuit and Father Bolshevik. Even too fair.

Oh yes, those terrible heresies which he went out of his way to correct locally and ostensibly cost folks their lives, but hey, let's leave the global criminal conspiracy to cover the child abuse up to the local Bishops.

Sound pastoral priorities there.


I don't get it. You expect one man to micromanage a world-wide instituion of 1 billion members? Honestly, I think that no matter what actions the Pope takes, you people would find a reason to be mad.

Again. Not micro-managing. Making a clear statement is not micro-managing. And you all created the Papacy problem, not the rest of us.
Jesus created the "Papacy Problem"  Cheesy
Not striking trouble makers dead is not the same as creating problems.
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« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2011, 01:38:21 AM »

This entire thread apparently is an Orthodox exercise in casting the first stone.
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« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2011, 07:13:03 AM »

STEPS TOWARDS A REUNITED CHURCH:
A SKETCH OF AN ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC VISION FOR THE FUTURE

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
Georgetown University, Washington, DC
October 2, 2010

1.  Prologue. For almost forty-five years, the North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation has been meeting regularly to discuss some of the major pastoral and doctrinal issues that prevent our Churches from sharing a single life of faith, sacraments, and witness before the world.  Our goal has been to pave the way towards sharing fully in Eucharistic communion through recognizing and accepting each other as integral parts of the Church founded by Jesus Christ.

2. A Central Point of Disagreement.   In the course of our discussions, it has become increasingly clear to us that the most divisive element in our traditions has been a growing diversity, since the late patristic centuries, in the ways we understand the structure of the Church itself, particularly our understanding of the forms of headship that seem essential to the Church’s being at the local, regional and worldwide levels.  At the heart of our differences stands the way each of our traditions understands the proper exercise of primacy in the leadership of the Church, both within the various regions of the Christian world and within Christianity as a whole.  In order to be the Body of Christ in its fullness -- to be both “Orthodox” and “Catholic” -- does a local community, gathered to celebrate the Eucharist, have to be united with the other Churches that share the Apostolic faith, not only through Scripture, doctrine, and tradition, but also through common worldwide structures of authority -- particularly through the practice of a universal synodality in union with the bishop of Rome?

It seems to be no exaggeration, in fact, to say that the root obstacle preventing the Orthodox and Catholic Churches from growing steadily towards sacramental and practical unity has been, and continues to be, the role that the bishop of Rome plays in the worldwide Catholic communion.  While for Catholics, maintaining communion in faith and sacraments with the bishop of Rome is considered a necessary criterion for being considered Church in the full sense, for Orthodox, as well as for Protestants, it is precisely the pope’s historic claims to authority in teaching and Church life that are most at variance with the image of the Church presented to us in the New Testament and in early Christian writings.  In the carefully understated words of Pope John Paul II, “the Catholic Church's conviction that in the ministry of the bishop of Rome she has preserved, in fidelity to the Apostolic Tradition and the faith of the Fathers, the visible sign and guarantor of unity, constitutes a difficulty for most other Christians, whose memory is marked by certain painful recollections” (Ut Unum Sint 88).

3. Divergent Histories.  The historical roots of this difference in vision go back many centuries.  Episcopal and regional structures of leadership have developed in different ways in the Churches of Christ, and are to some extent based on social and political expectations that reach back to early Christianity.  In Christian antiquity, the primary reality of the local Church, centered in a city and bound by special concerns to the other Churches of the same province or region, served as the main model for Church unity.  The bishop of a province’s metropolitan or capital city came to be recognized early as the one who presided at that province’s regular synods of bishops (see Apostolic Canon 34).   Notwithstanding regional structural differences, a sense of shared faith and shared Apostolic origins, expressed in the shared Eucharist and in the mutual recognition of  bishops, bound these local communities together in the consciousness of being one Church, while the community in each place saw itself as a full embodiment of the Church of the apostles.


Click the link to continue reading the documentSCOBA:  Steps Towards a Reunited Church
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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2011, 03:32:06 PM »

STEPS TOWARDS A REUNITED CHURCH:
A SKETCH OF AN ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC VISION FOR THE FUTURE

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
Georgetown University, Washington, DC
October 2, 2010

I know I am repeating myself but I think this document supports my view that the Pope is not ready for unity.  He is not yet able to accept that he will be subject to Church Councils as is every bishop and he is not ready to accept that he will be one bishop with one vote, again just as all other bishops.  He requires more time, to prepare himself and to prepare his people since this could be contentious issue in his Church..

Unus episcopus unum suffragium
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« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2011, 04:28:45 PM »

Click the link to continue reading the documentSCOBA:  Steps Towards a Reunited Church
I thought SCOBA was defunct now.
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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2011, 04:41:02 PM »

STEPS TOWARDS A REUNITED CHURCH:
A SKETCH OF AN ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC VISION FOR THE FUTURE

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
Georgetown University, Washington, DC
October 2, 2010

I know I am repeating myself but I think this document supports my view that the Pope is not ready for unity.  He is not yet able to accept that he will be subject to Church Councils as is every bishop and he is not ready to accept that he will be one bishop with one vote, again just as all other bishops.  He requires more time, to prepare himself and to prepare his people since this could be contentious issue in his Church..

Unus episcopus unum suffragium
Episcopatus unus est, cuius a singulis in solidum pars tenetur
The episcopate is one, each part of which is held by each one for the whole.-St. Cyprian.
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2011, 07:05:42 PM »

STEPS TOWARDS A REUNITED CHURCH:
A SKETCH OF AN ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC VISION FOR THE FUTURE

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
Georgetown University, Washington, DC
October 2, 2010

I know I am repeating myself but I think this document supports my view that the Pope is not ready for unity.  He is not yet able to accept that he will be subject to Church Councils as is every bishop and he is not ready to accept that he will be one bishop with one vote, again just as all other bishops.  He requires more time, to prepare himself and to prepare his people since this could be contentious issue in his Church..

Unus episcopus unum suffragium

Oh Father, I think that if we dig deeply enough into the realpolitik of Orthodoxy, we'd find that some bishops are more equal than others...in fact I am certain that is in fact the reality for Orthodoxy. 
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« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2011, 11:28:51 PM »

Click the link to continue reading the documentSCOBA:  Steps Towards a Reunited Church
I thought SCOBA was defunct now.
The Episcopal Assembly has now taken over all of SCOBA's agencies.

On the Work of the First Episcopal Assembly of Orthodox Bishops of North America
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« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2011, 11:31:02 PM »

STEPS TOWARDS A REUNITED CHURCH:
A SKETCH OF AN ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC VISION FOR THE FUTURE

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
Georgetown University, Washington, DC
October 2, 2010

I know I am repeating myself but I think this document supports my view that the Pope is not ready for unity.  He is not yet able to accept that he will be subject to Church Councils as is every bishop and he is not ready to accept that he will be one bishop with one vote, again just as all other bishops.  He requires more time, to prepare himself and to prepare his people since this could be contentious issue in his Church..

Unus episcopus unum suffragium
I agree with you that the Roman Church is not ready for real unity with the Eastern Orthodox, and vice versa, but, as far as the document is concerned, it tends to propose questions without giving any answers.  I suppose the answers are something that will have to be developed over time.

P.S. - I posted the document merely to advance the discussion.
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« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2011, 12:05:09 AM »

STEPS TOWARDS A REUNITED CHURCH:
A SKETCH OF AN ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC VISION FOR THE FUTURE

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
Georgetown University, Washington, DC
October 2, 2010

I know I am repeating myself but I think this document supports my view that the Pope is not ready for unity.  He is not yet able to accept that he will be subject to Church Councils as is every bishop and he is not ready to accept that he will be one bishop with one vote, again just as all other bishops.  He requires more time, to prepare himself and to prepare his people since this could be contentious issue in his Church..

Unus episcopus unum suffragium

Oh Father, I think that if we dig deeply enough into the realpolitik of Orthodoxy, we'd find that some bishops are more equal than others...in fact I am certain that is in fact the reality for Orthodoxy. 

What's with this "more equal" kick you've been on?  Wink Does not a thing being equal imply an equality? If one is "more equal" than another is it no longer equal to that which it was before? This whole "more equal" business sounds a lot like Jim Crow southern America where everyone was "separate but equal" but the whites were more equal than their black compatriots.

In Christ,
Andrew
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"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
Wyatt
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« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2011, 12:06:16 AM »

STEPS TOWARDS A REUNITED CHURCH:
A SKETCH OF AN ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC VISION FOR THE FUTURE

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
Georgetown University, Washington, DC
October 2, 2010

I know I am repeating myself but I think this document supports my view that the Pope is not ready for unity.  He is not yet able to accept that he will be subject to Church Councils as is every bishop and he is not ready to accept that he will be one bishop with one vote, again just as all other bishops.  He requires more time, to prepare himself and to prepare his people since this could be contentious issue in his Church..

Unus episcopus unum suffragium

Oh Father, I think that if we dig deeply enough into the realpolitik of Orthodoxy, we'd find that some bishops are more equal than others...in fact I am certain that is in fact the reality for Orthodoxy. 

What's with this "more equal" kick you've been on?  Wink Does not a thing being equal imply an equality? If one is "more equal" than another is it no longer equal to that which it was before? This whole "more equal" business sounds a lot like Jim Crow southern America where everyone was "separate but equal" but the whites were more equal than their black compatriots.

In Christ,
Andrew
Obviously you have never read Animal Farm.
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Shlomlokh
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« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2011, 12:10:12 AM »

STEPS TOWARDS A REUNITED CHURCH:
A SKETCH OF AN ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC VISION FOR THE FUTURE

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
Georgetown University, Washington, DC
October 2, 2010

I know I am repeating myself but I think this document supports my view that the Pope is not ready for unity.  He is not yet able to accept that he will be subject to Church Councils as is every bishop and he is not ready to accept that he will be one bishop with one vote, again just as all other bishops.  He requires more time, to prepare himself and to prepare his people since this could be contentious issue in his Church..

Unus episcopus unum suffragium

Oh Father, I think that if we dig deeply enough into the realpolitik of Orthodoxy, we'd find that some bishops are more equal than others...in fact I am certain that is in fact the reality for Orthodoxy. 

What's with this "more equal" kick you've been on?  Wink Does not a thing being equal imply an equality? If one is "more equal" than another is it no longer equal to that which it was before? This whole "more equal" business sounds a lot like Jim Crow southern America where everyone was "separate but equal" but the whites were more equal than their black compatriots.

In Christ,
Andrew
Obviously you have never read Animal Farm.
Sure haven't! Is that book more better than 1984?

In Christ,
Andrew
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 12:10:51 AM by Shlomlokh » Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
ialmisry
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« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2011, 01:20:06 AM »

STEPS TOWARDS A REUNITED CHURCH:
A SKETCH OF AN ORTHODOX-CATHOLIC VISION FOR THE FUTURE

The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
Georgetown University, Washington, DC
October 2, 2010

I know I am repeating myself but I think this document supports my view that the Pope is not ready for unity.  He is not yet able to accept that he will be subject to Church Councils as is every bishop and he is not ready to accept that he will be one bishop with one vote, again just as all other bishops.  He requires more time, to prepare himself and to prepare his people since this could be contentious issue in his Church..

Unus episcopus unum suffragium

Oh Father, I think that if we dig deeply enough into the realpolitik of Orthodoxy, we'd find that some bishops are more equal than others...in fact I am certain that is in fact the reality for Orthodoxy. 

Let's make this easy: explain to us the differences between the 123 or so supreme pontiffs of the Vatican. Enlighten us.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2011, 02:25:52 PM »

Sure haven't! Is that book more better than 1984?

In Christ,
Andrew
Ironically I cannot say since I have actually not read 1984. However, Animal Farm is where the term "more equal" comes from. It's a pretty interesting story. I would recommend it.
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