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« on: January 12, 2011, 07:46:35 PM »

 
Patriarch of the West: Centre for Eastern Christianity

The first Joint Theology Seminary of the new Centre for Eastern Christianity and Heythrop College will take place on the afternoon of 26th January 2011. In connection with the current concern of the international Catholic-Orthodox dialogue, the focus will be on the Petrine ministry of the Bishop of Rome and the role of the papacy in the universal Church. Part of the context is the removal by Pope Benedict XVI of the title, "Patriarch of the West". To some on the Catholic side of the dialogue, the title was irrelevant, referring to long historic conditions and thus defunct. Indeed, it has been claimed that it thus stood in the way of a genuine dialogue towards reunion in the conditions of the present. But to others and to many Orthodox, it appeared to disturb the arrangements that obtained before schism set in, especially the pentarchy of the historic patriarchates, and thus made it more difficult to retrace steps in the search for lost unity. The Seminar will look at all these issues as they affect - and are affected by - respective canonical principles and the sense of the Church's identity we have as Catholics and Orthodox.

Canon Law and the Politics of Ecclesial Identity:
The Patriarch of the West:
contemporary Catholic & Orthodox perspectives


Dr Peter Petkoff


Wednesday 26 January 2011, 4.30pm -6.00pm
The Hopkins Room
Heythrop College, University of London, Kensington Square, London W8 5HN.

Please note: there is no charge for attendance and registration is not required. Enquiries:
j.flannery@.... A flyer can be downloaded here.

Out of interest, here are two relevant speeches made by Patriarch Gregorios of Antioch the Melkite Greek Catholics at the October 2010 Special Assembly of the Synod of Bishops of the Catholic Church to address the concerns of the Churches of the Middle East:

"We ought to have a Pope"
https://docs0.google.com/document/d/1Kv1VrksXHhl1nHLoh2bl1E0s5GjXOs5NeHaiKXFqlAI/edit?hl=en_GB#

Ecclesiology and Ecumenism
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e-K7rgSq0hpghZWwg1coW5QeilKBRBiF3kyMFeBwANA/edit?hl=en_GB&pli=1#

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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2011, 02:15:30 PM »

It doesn't make as much sense post-schism to still retain the title of Patriarch of the West since we and the Eastern Patriarchates are no longer in full communion. I suppose the argument could be made that there are Eastern Catholic Patriarchs and, thus, the title could still apply. However, the Pope really has a threefold role in our Church: he is bishop of the diocese of Rome, he is Patriarch of the Latin Church, and he is also, to us, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church. "Patriarch of the West" doesn't mean as much now that we are and the Eastern Orthodox are not in full communion. If/when full communion resumes, the addition of the title would be appropriate in my opinion. I would be interested to know from any fellow RCs on here what the significance of the Holy Father removing the title was. Was it ever stated why he did so?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 02:15:52 PM by Wyatt » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2011, 02:26:51 PM »

Some said that it would be better for Catholic-Orthodox ecumencial talks, but I think it has actually been worse. The best thing the Pope can do is reinstate the title, because whether or not he uses the title anymore, he still is Patriarch of the West.
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 02:30:37 PM »

Some said that it would be better for Catholic-Orthodox ecumencial talks, but I think it has actually been worse. The best thing the Pope can do is reinstate the title, because whether or not he uses the title anymore, he still is Patriarch of the West.

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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 02:36:21 PM »

Some said that it would be better for Catholic-Orthodox ecumencial talks, but I think it has actually been worse. The best thing the Pope can do is reinstate the title, because whether or not he uses the title anymore, he still is Patriarch of the West.
I agree. I really cannot understand why anyone would have thought that removing the title would be good for ecumenical dialog. I mean as soon as I found out about it I thought that the EO would consider it a slap in the face. I am somewhat surprised there has not been an uproar amongst Eastern Catholics as well concerning the removal of the title.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 02:36:55 PM by Wyatt » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 04:08:05 PM »

Some said that it would be better for Catholic-Orthodox ecumencial talks, but I think it has actually been worse. The best thing the Pope can do is reinstate the title, because whether or not he uses the title anymore, he still is Patriarch of the West.
I agree. I really cannot understand why anyone would have thought that removing the title would be good for ecumenical dialog. I mean as soon as I found out about it I thought that the EO would consider it a slap in the face. I am somewhat surprised there has not been an uproar amongst Eastern Catholics as well concerning the removal of the title.

Can anyone tell me who the Patriarch of the East is?...or was?...or will be?
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 12:29:32 AM »

Some said that it would be better for Catholic-Orthodox ecumencial talks, but I think it has actually been worse. The best thing the Pope can do is reinstate the title, because whether or not he uses the title anymore, he still is Patriarch of the West.
I agree. I really cannot understand why anyone would have thought that removing the title would be good for ecumenical dialog. I mean as soon as I found out about it I thought that the EO would consider it a slap in the face. I am somewhat surprised there has not been an uproar amongst Eastern Catholics as well concerning the removal of the title.

Can anyone tell me who the Patriarch of the East is?...or was?...or will be?


The Catholicos Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the EAST.

Greeks= Westerners.
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2011, 05:14:04 PM »

Some said that it would be better for Catholic-Orthodox ecumencial talks, but I think it has actually been worse. The best thing the Pope can do is reinstate the title, because whether or not he uses the title anymore, he still is Patriarch of the West.
I agree. I really cannot understand why anyone would have thought that removing the title would be good for ecumenical dialog. I mean as soon as I found out about it I thought that the EO would consider it a slap in the face. I am somewhat surprised there has not been an uproar amongst Eastern Catholics as well concerning the removal of the title.

Can anyone tell me who the Patriarch of the East is?...or was?...or will be?

The Patriarch of Antioch is the Patriarch of Antioch and All the East. As the Patriarch of Alexandria is the Pope and Patriarch of All Africa, the Patriarch of Jerusalem is Patriarch of All Palestine, the Patriarch of Moscow is Patriarch of All the Rus', etc.
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2011, 06:17:44 PM »

Some said that it would be better for Catholic-Orthodox ecumencial talks, but I think it has actually been worse. The best thing the Pope can do is reinstate the title, because whether or not he uses the title anymore, he still is Patriarch of the West.
I agree. I really cannot understand why anyone would have thought that removing the title would be good for ecumenical dialog. I mean as soon as I found out about it I thought that the EO would consider it a slap in the face. I am somewhat surprised there has not been an uproar amongst Eastern Catholics as well concerning the removal of the title.

Can anyone tell me who the Patriarch of the East is?...or was?...or will be?


The Catholicos Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the EAST.

Greeks= Westerners.


Quote
In these inscriptions, Ashoka refers to himself as "Beloved of the Gods" and "King Priya-darshi." The identification of King Priya-darshi with Ashoka was confirmed by an inscription discovered in 1837. The inscriptions found in the eastern part of India were written in the Magadhi language, using the Brahmi script. In the western part of India, the language used is closer to Sanskrit, using the Kharoshthi script, one extract of Edict 13 in the Greek language, and one bilingual edict written in Greek and Aramaic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edicts_of_Ashoka
Hellenism in ancient India By Gauranga Nath Banerjee
http://books.google.com/books?id=yKVCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=greek+inscription+india&source=bl&ots=ZSuKqiMTmy&sig=jw5NaIZ685vwdOJdzE0bjVqEepU&hl=en&ei=AmAzTeHcBs3TgAezmZCbCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=greek%20inscription%20india&f=false


Quote
Silver tetradrachm depicting the Greco-Bactrian king Demetrius (r.c. 205-171 BC).
Obv. Draped and wearing an elephant scalp, symbol of his conquests in India.
Rev. Youthful, naked Heracles, crowning himself with right hand, with lion skin and upright club resting on his left arm. Greek legend: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΔΗΜΗΤΡΙΟΥ (BASILEOS DEMETRIOU) "Of King Demetrius".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_I_of_Bactria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Bactrian


Quote
Mithradates I (171-138 BC)
Great king who made Parthia into a major power. Son of Priapatios. Expanded the empire westward into Mesopotamia and eastward into Bactria. Actively promoted Hellenism and titled himself "philhellene" (friend of the Greeks) on his coinage. First appearance of a Greek-style portrait showing the royal diadem, the standard Greek symbol for kingship.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/numismatics/parthia/frames/prulfm.htm

Quote
Parthia, ancient Persia. King Gotarzes II, 48 - 49 AD. Large silver tetradrachm, Seleucia on the Tigris mint, dated year 360. Diademed bust of king left, with long beard / King seated on throne, Tyche of Antioch standing left, giving him diadem and holding cornucopiae. Greek legend
http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/persian/parthian.html
Quote
Quote
The Great King, The Great King of Kings, Dikaios [Just], Euergetes [Benefactor], Philhellene, Autocrator, Philopator [Lover of Father], Epiphanes [Manifest]



Quote
Seleucia (Greek: Σελεύκεια), also known as Seleucia on the Tigris, was one of the great cities of the world during Hellenistic and Roman times. It stood in Mesopotamia, on the west bank of the Tigris River, opposite the smaller town of Ctesiphon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucia

Quote
Coin from Seleucia with Greek inscription: "Of the Great King Arsaces, bearer of victory"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia_(Roman_province)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyria_(Roman_province)
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2011, 07:08:14 PM »

Read on all the posessions of the Catholicos Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East. Thre used to be Metropiltans in China, Tibet, Turkmenistan, the farthest reaches of the East.The Patriarch of Antioch is only the Easternmost Western Patriarch, and there are four or so claimants to it ever since it was severed in Ephesus.
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2011, 07:08:14 PM »

Some said that it would be better for Catholic-Orthodox ecumencial talks, but I think it has actually been worse. The best thing the Pope can do is reinstate the title, because whether or not he uses the title anymore, he still is Patriarch of the West.
I agree. I really cannot understand why anyone would have thought that removing the title would be good for ecumenical dialog. I mean as soon as I found out about it I thought that the EO would consider it a slap in the face. I am somewhat surprised there has not been an uproar amongst Eastern Catholics as well concerning the removal of the title.

Can anyone tell me who the Patriarch of the East is?...or was?...or will be?


The Catholicos Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the EAST.

Greeks= Westerners.


Quote
In these inscriptions, Ashoka refers to himself as "Beloved of the Gods" and "King Priya-darshi." The identification of King Priya-darshi with Ashoka was confirmed by an inscription discovered in 1837. The inscriptions found in the eastern part of India were written in the Magadhi language, using the Brahmi script. In the western part of India, the language used is closer to Sanskrit, using the Kharoshthi script, one extract of Edict 13 in the Greek language, and one bilingual edict written in Greek and Aramaic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edicts_of_Ashoka
Hellenism in ancient India By Gauranga Nath Banerjee
http://books.google.com/books?id=yKVCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=greek+inscription+india&source=bl&ots=ZSuKqiMTmy&sig=jw5NaIZ685vwdOJdzE0bjVqEepU&hl=en&ei=AmAzTeHcBs3TgAezmZCbCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCsQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=greek%20inscription%20india&f=false


Quote
Silver tetradrachm depicting the Greco-Bactrian king Demetrius (r.c. 205-171 BC).
Obv. Draped and wearing an elephant scalp, symbol of his conquests in India.
Rev. Youthful, naked Heracles, crowning himself with right hand, with lion skin and upright club resting on his left arm. Greek legend: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΔΗΜΗΤΡΙΟΥ (BASILEOS DEMETRIOU) "Of King Demetrius".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_I_of_Bactria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Bactrian


Quote
Mithradates I (171-138 BC)
Great king who made Parthia into a major power. Son of Priapatios. Expanded the empire westward into Mesopotamia and eastward into Bactria. Actively promoted Hellenism and titled himself "philhellene" (friend of the Greeks) on his coinage. First appearance of a Greek-style portrait showing the royal diadem, the standard Greek symbol for kingship.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/numismatics/parthia/frames/prulfm.htm

Quote
Parthia, ancient Persia. King Gotarzes II, 48 - 49 AD. Large silver tetradrachm, Seleucia on the Tigris mint, dated year 360. Diademed bust of king left, with long beard / King seated on throne, Tyche of Antioch standing left, giving him diadem and holding cornucopiae. Greek legend
http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/persian/parthian.html
Quote
Quote
The Great King, The Great King of Kings, Dikaios [Just], Euergetes [Benefactor], Philhellene, Autocrator, Philopator [Lover of Father], Epiphanes [Manifest]



Quote
Seleucia (Greek: Σελεύκεια), also known as Seleucia on the Tigris, was one of the great cities of the world during Hellenistic and Roman times. It stood in Mesopotamia, on the west bank of the Tigris River, opposite the smaller town of Ctesiphon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucia

Quote
Coin from Seleucia with Greek inscription: "Of the Great King Arsaces, bearer of victory"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamia_(Roman_province)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyria_(Roman_province)

We went over all this bogus evidence before: The Persians NEVER spoke Greek except for printing coins to please seleukids they were preparing to tear to pieces. "Lover of the Greeks" LOL! Persia was a Roman graveyard, have you not read the stories of Valens, Julian the apostate,etc. ? Seleukia-Ctesiphon (Babylon) was never Roman (unless you xcount once or twice it fell into Roman hands but was then retaken). Bactria was surrounded by orientals which is why the Greeks in it were completely absorbed and lost their identity over time. The language of Persia was Aramaic, Josephus himself said so when he spoke of the dialect of his language the "Barbarians" spoke. You can't fight the bible Isa, it clearly shows the Greeks as intruders into the orient. Even the ancestors of the Greeks agree that Greece was a Western nation that apropriated Oriental knowledge and customs- read Clement of Alexandria's Protrepticus (exhortation to the Greeks).

Better yet, read the Eastern-Assyrian Tatian's  address to the Greeks:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.iii.ii.i.html

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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2011, 07:14:03 PM »

We went over all this bogus evidence before: The Persians NEVER spoke Greek except for printing coins to please seleukids they were preparing to tear to pieces. "Lover of the Greeks" LOL! Persia was a Roman graveyard, have you not read the stories of Valens, Julian the apostate,etc. ? Seleukia-Ctesiphon (Babylon) was never Roman (unless you xcount once or twice it fell into Roman hands but was then retaken). Bactria was surrounded by orientals which is why the Greeks in it were completely absorbed and lost their identity over time. The language of Persia was Aramaic, Josephus himself said so when he spoke of the dialect of his language the "Barbarians" spoke. You can't fight the bible Isa, it clearly shows the Greeks as intruders into the orient. Even the ancestors of the Greeks agree that Greece was a Western nation that apropriated Oriental knowledge and customs- read Clement of Alexandria's Protrepticus (exhortation to the Greeks).

Better yet, read the Eastern-Assyrian Tatian's  address to the Greeks:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.iii.ii.i.html
Rafa, we know how you like to define "East" to such a limited realm in order to fit your agenda, but how does that fit this discussion? Why should we even allow ourselves to be influenced by what you think?
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2011, 10:41:51 PM »

Read on all the posessions of the Catholicos Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East. Thre used to be Metropiltans in China, Tibet, Turkmenistan, the farthest reaches of the East.
That would be Alaska.

Quote
Until 1867, Alaska began Russia's day, with the date line following the partially defined border between Russian Alaska and British North America, including the colony of British Columbia. The day before the purchase by the United States took effect, it was Friday, 6 October 1867, in the Julian calendar (used by Russia at the time), which would have been 18 October in the Gregorian calendar. The time in New Archangel would have been 12:00 when it was 12:02, Thursday, 17 October, at the future site of Whitehorse, Yukon, and 12:49, 17 October, at the future site of Vancouver, British Columbia. With the transfer of governance, the date line was shifted (moving Alaska back a day), and the calendar was changed (moving Alaska ahead 12 days), and being effective at midnight the calendar moved ahead one day as well, for a net change of 11 days. Friday, 6 October, was followed by Friday, 18 October (not Saturday, 7 October).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Date_Line
Quote
The Patriarch of Antioch is only the Easternmost Western Patriarch,
That would be the Catholicos of Georgia.

Quote
and there are four or so claimants to it ever since it was severed in Ephesus.
No, Patriarch John of Antioch kept it together. It didn't have a lasting schism until 518, when Pat. Severus was deposed.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 10:42:28 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2011, 10:56:10 PM »

Read on all the posessions of the Catholicos Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East. Thre used to be Metropiltans in China, Tibet, Turkmenistan, the farthest reaches of the East.
That would be Alaska.
Which raises an interesting point. What Geographical areas are covered by "The East" and "The West"? I'd love to see a bicolour-coded world map of this.
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2011, 11:25:44 PM »

Decided to PM instead... Smiley
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 11:26:17 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2011, 12:59:50 AM »

We went over all this bogus evidence before:
As I recall you called it bogus and the evidence stood.
Quote
The Persians NEVER spoke Greek except for printing coins
No, they made inscriptions too:

Quote
Unlike the coin legends of the Frataraka governors and petty kings of Persis, those of the Arsacids are of limited epigraphic value. Until the time of Vologases I (51-77 C.E.) they were exclusively in Greek; then one or two Parthian letters were added, but full Parthian legends did not appear before Mithridates IV (ca. 130), and even then they were graphically unsatisfactory. With rare exceptions they included no ruler’s personal name, and years are rare (Sellwood; Alram, pp. 121-37). The Gotarsēs Geopothros mentioned in a Greek inscription on a relief at Sar-e Pol in Kordestān (Gropp, 1986) recalls the Gotarzēs mentioned on the relief of Mithridates II (123-87 B.C.E.) hewn into the rock at Bīsotūn (Silvestre de Sacy, 1815, p. 191, pl. I) but now destroyed.
Quote
Since those early days of modern Greek epigraphy, the number of known Greek inscriptions from ancient Iran (that is, all countries which once had a population that spoke some Iranian idiom) has enormously increased. The geographic boundaries of Greek epigraphy of the “Extrême-Orient grec,” a term coined by Bernard Haussoullier in 1903, have been transferred much farther to the east in Bactria and Arachosia (qq.v.). As these inscriptions represent an invaluable and varied source of information about the encounter of the Greek and Iranian civilizations, it is regrettable that no corpus yet exists. Such a collection has been planned within the framework of the Corpus Inscriptionum Iranicarum, however, for more than thirty-five years. Louis Robert had started work on it (Robert, 1960, p. 86, n. 2), but unfortunately, he did not live to complete it. His preliminary work was continued by Paul Bernard and Jean Pouilloux (Bernard, 1987, p. 111) and is now in the hands of Bernard and Georges Rougemont (personal communication from N. Sims-Williams).
http://www.iranica.com/articles/epigraphy-i
http://www.iranica.com/articles/epigraphy-ii
to please seleukids they were preparing to tear to pieces.
There were no Seleucids left by then. Even the Sassanids (the founder coming to power nearly three centuries after the disappearance of the Seleucids in Antioch)
"Lover of the Greeks" LOL!
Take it up with the Parthians.
Persia was a Roman graveyard, have you not read the stories of Valens, Julian the apostate,etc.?
Sure. And Darius III, Sanatruces II,  Vologases IV, Vologases V, Artabanus IV and Khosrau II.
btw
Quote
During the reign of Artabanus II, two Jewish commoners and brothers, Anilai and Asinai from Nehardea (near modern Fallujah, Iraq),[95] led a revolt against the Parthian governor of Babylonia. After defeating the latter, the two were granted the right to govern the region by Artabanus II, who feared further rebellion elsewhere.[96] Anilai's Parthian wife poisoned Asinai out of fear he would attack Anilai over his marriage to a gentile. Following this, Anilai became embroiled in an armed conflict with a son-in-law of Artabanus, who eventually defeated him.[97] With the Jewish regime removed, the native Babylonians began to harass the local Jewish community, forcing them to emigrate to Seleucia. When that city rebelled against Parthian rule in 35–36 AD, the Jews were expelled again, this time by the local Greeks and Aramaeans. The exiled Jews fled to Ctesiphon, Nehardea, and Nisibis.[98]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire#Peace_with_Rome_and_court_intrigue

Seleukia-Ctesiphon (Babylon) was never Roman (unless you xcount once or twice it fell into Roman hands but was then retaken).
How many times Rome (old or new) fall to the Persians?  And how many times the Romans put up the Shahanshah there?

And how did it get the name Seleucia?

Bactria was surrounded by orientals which is why the Greeks in it were completely absorbed and lost their identity over time.
Quote
Evidence of direct religious interaction between Greek and Buddhist thought during the period include the Milinda Panha, a Buddhist discourse in the platonic style, held between king Menander and the Buddhist monk Nagasena.

Also the Mahavamsa (Chap. XXIX[10]) records that during Menander's reign, "a Greek ("Yona") Buddhist head monk" named Mahadharmaraksita (literally translated as 'Great Teacher/Preserver of the Dharma') led 30,000 Buddhist monks from "the Greek city of Alexandria" (possibly Alexandria-of-the-Caucasus, around 150 km north of today's Kabul in Afghanistan), to Sri Lanka for the dedication of a stupa, indicating that Buddhism flourished in Menander's territory and that Greeks took a very active part in it.

Several Buddhist dedications by Greeks in India are recorded, such as that of the Greek meridarch (civil governor of a province) named Theodorus, describing in Kharoshthi how he enshrined relics of the Buddha. The inscriptions were found on a vase inside a stupa, dated to the reign of Menander or one his successors in the 1st century BCE (Tarn, p391):

"Theudorena meridarkhena pratithavida ime sarira sakamunisa bhagavato bahu-jana-stitiye":
"The meridarch Theodorus has enshrined relics of Lord Shakyamuni, for the welfare of the mass of the people"
(Swāt relic vase inscription of the Meridarkh Theodoros[11])
Finally, Buddhist tradition recognizes Menander as one of the great benefactors of the faith, together with Asoka and Kanishka.

Buddhist manuscripts in cursive Greek have been found in Afghanistan, praising various Buddhas and including mentions of the Mahayana Lokesvara-raja Buddha (λωγοασφαροραζοβοδδο). These manuscripts have been dated later than the 2nd century CE. (Nicholas Sims-Williams, "A Bactrian Buddhist Manuscript").

Some elements of the Mahayana movement may have begun around the 1st century BCE in northwestern India, at the time and place of these interactions. According to most scholars, the main sutras of Mahayana were written after 100 BCE, when sectarian conflicts arose among Nikaya Buddhist sects regarding the humanity or super-humanity of the Buddha and questions of metaphysical essentialism, on which Greek thought may have had some influence: "It may have been a Greek-influenced and Greek-carried form of Buddhism that passed north and east along the Silk Road".[12]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism#Scriptures
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The Greek philosopher Apollonius of Tyana is related by Philostratus in Life of Apollonius Tyana to have visited India, and specifically the city of Taxila around 46 CE. He describes constructions of the Greek type,[35] probably referring to Sirkap, and explains that the Indo-Parthian king of Taxila, named Phraotes, received a Greek education at the court of his father and spoke Greek fluently:

"Tell me, O King, how you acquired such a command of the Greek tongue, and whence you derived all your philosophical attainments in this place?"[36]
[...]-"My father, after a Greek education, brought me to the sages at an age somewhat too early perhaps, for I was only twelve at the time, but they brought me up like their own son; for any that they admit knowing the Greek tongue they are especially fond of, because they consider that in virtue of the similarity of his disposition he already belongs to themselves."[37]
Lastly, from the Rabatak inscription we have the following information, tending to indicate that Greek was still in official use until the time of Kanishka (circa 120 CE):

"He (Kanishka) issued(?) an edict(?) in Greek and then he put it into the Aryan language". …but when Kanishka refers to "the Aryan language" he surely means Bactrian, …"By the grace of Auramazda, I made another text in Aryan, which previously did not exist". It is difficult not to associate Kanishka's emphasis here on the use of the "Aryan language" with the replacement of Greek by Bactrian on his coinage. The numismatic evidence shows that this must have taken place very early in Kanishka's reign, …" — Prof. Nicholas Sims-Williams (University of London).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_of_the_Indo-Greeks#Linguistic_legacy

The language of Persia was Aramaic,
The language of Persia was Persian.
http://books.google.com/books?id=3KQNLHx8nxAC&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq=Ammianus+marcellinus+saansaan&source=bl&ots=l-W2PELvZa&sig=jmernaJdRsu6b4n11fEbbeZ9fYc&hl=en&ei=4MgzTeX-KIfLgQfY8qXuCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CCUQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Ammianus%20marcellinus%20saansaan&f=false
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frahang-i_Pahlavig
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Comp. Ammianus Marcellinus XIX. 2, 11: 'Pereis Saporem et Saansaan adpellantibus et Pугosen, quod rex regibus imperans et bollornm victor interpretatur'. The Persian king here mentioned was Sapor III, A. D. 308—381 and the war alluded to, was that with the Roman emperor Constantius, who returned to the western provinces of his empire about A. D. 350. The foregoing notice of Ammianus, that the Persians called Sapor III. by the title saansaan, L e. sháhatishdh, 'king of kings', and not malkân malká, as the title is always written on his coins, clearly proves that malkân malka was pronounced shâhanshâh, as if it were a Persian word, and not according to its orthography and derivation as a Semitic one. This is a proof that the peculiar way of reading Pahlavl, as described by Ibn Muqaffa, existed as early as the middle of the 4th century A. D.
http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA125&dq=Ammianus+marcellinus+saansaan&ei=oMkzTbuvDIn2gAfep7DFCw&ct=result&id=hP1fAAAAMAAJ#v=onepage&q=Ammianus%20marcellinus%20saansaan&f=false

Josephus himself said so when he spoke of the dialect of his language the "Barbarians" spoke.
And Josephus was in Persia when?

You can't fight the bible Isa,
Never do.
it clearly shows the Greeks as intruders into the orient.
Care to cite the verse?

Even the ancestors of the Greeks agree that Greece was a Western nation that apropriated Oriental knowledge and customs- read Clement of Alexandria's Protrepticus (exhortation to the Greeks).
Can you cite the geography lesson?

Better yet, read the Eastern-Assyrian Tatian's  address to the Greeks:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.iii.ii.i.html
Delivered in Greek.
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2011, 01:02:09 AM »

Read on all the posessions of the Catholicos Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East. Thre used to be Metropiltans in China, Tibet, Turkmenistan, the farthest reaches of the East.
That would be Alaska.
Which raises an interesting point. What Geographical areas are covered by "The East" and "The West"? I'd love to see a bicolour-coded world map of this.
Well, China, the font of what we call the Far East, calls itself the "Middle Kingdom."
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2011, 03:33:14 AM »

Isa, Did you even read Tatian's work? It is wonderful if I may say so, will implode your oriental Greek theory quite easily. Josephus said the "Barbarians of the East"  spoke a dialect of his language. Take it up to him.
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