Author Topic: Orthodoxy and Abortion  (Read 61583 times)

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Offline stanley123

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abortion
« Reply #855 on: August 21, 2011, 08:23:14 PM »
care to give their account of Italy? Spain? France?
Here is an account by others of
Abortion rate per 1000 people:
Russia     19.3
Bulgaria 13.0
France 2.7
Italy 2.3
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_abo_percap-health-abortions-per-capita

It doesn't look to me like Roman Catholicism is in such bad shape after all. Take a look at the difference in abortion rates for Eastern Orthodox versus Roman Catholic countries.


Abortion Statistics for Italy

For the year 2008:

Live births.... 576,659

Abortions......121,406

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-italy.html
 


Let's compare that with  Russia:
Live births....1,713,947
Abortions....1,385,600

or Romania:
Live births....221,020
abortions....163,459
How do these statistics show that Roman Catholicism is in bad shape? Actually, they show the reverse, that even today, after Vatican II,  the Roman Catholic Church  is a stronger moral force against abortion than is the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Offline Volnutt

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abortion
« Reply #856 on: August 21, 2011, 08:23:22 PM »
What does dueling abortion stats really prove, guys? It's not either church's fault if her people don't listen to her.

So what if there are more Anabaptists per capita who obey their church on abortion. Whoopdee do. There's a lot of Buddhist pacifists too.
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Offline biro

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abortion
« Reply #857 on: August 21, 2011, 08:26:54 PM »
What does dueling abortion stats really prove, guys? It's not either church's fault if her people don't listen to her.

True. I don't know how much clearer the RCC could be about their opposition to abortion.  A lot of people in Europe don't go to church anymore. So they're not even hearing the opinion of their church.
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Offline stanley123

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abortion
« Reply #858 on: August 21, 2011, 08:29:56 PM »
What does dueling abortion stats really prove, guys? It's not either church's fault if her people don't listen to her.

So what if there are more Anabaptists per capita who obey their church on abortion. Whoopdee do. There's a lot of Buddhist pacifists too.
Abortion is murder is it not? Suppose the moral teachings of Church A are far more effective at preventing it than Church B. Now assuming you agree with that, what would you say when people from Church B continually present arguments saying that Church A is in terrible shape?

Offline ialmisry

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abortion
« Reply #859 on: August 21, 2011, 08:32:18 PM »
care to give their account of Italy? Spain? France?
Here is an account by others of
Abortion rate per 1000 people:
Russia     19.3
Bulgaria 13.0
France 2.7
Italy 2.3
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_abo_percap-health-abortions-per-capita

It doesn't look to me like Roman Catholicism is in such bad shape after all. Take a look at the difference in abortion rates for Eastern Orthodox versus Roman Catholic countries.


Abortion Statistics for Italy

For the year 2008:

Live births.... 576,659

Abortions......121,406

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-italy.html
 


Let's compare that with  Russia:
Live births....1,713,947
Abortions....1,385,600

or Romania:
Live births....221,020
abortions....163,459
How do these statistics show that Roman Catholicism is in bad shape? Actually, they show the reverse, that even today, after Vatican II,  the Roman Catholic Church  is a stronger moral force against abortion than is the Eastern Orthodox Church.
according to Orthodox criteria you can make that argument. According to the Vatican's criteria, you can't: the studies all show the disparity of abortion in France, Italy and Spain (countries which didn't have godless governments running and ruining them for decades, btw) are attributable to contraceptive use and availability, something the Vatican puts on a par with abortion.

Again, I don't get a clear picture where the morning after pill, something available in the West, but I'm not so sure in the East, which is classified as a "contraceptive," where it fits in.

Myself, I rather shudder with shame with what is going on in Romania, Serbia and worse yet Greece (which never had a communist government).  Lord have mercy!
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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Offline ialmisry

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abortion
« Reply #860 on: August 21, 2011, 08:35:13 PM »
What does dueling abortion stats really prove, guys? It's not either church's fault if her people don't listen to her.

So what if there are more Anabaptists per capita who obey their church on abortion. Whoopdee do. There's a lot of Buddhist pacifists too.
Abortion is murder is it not? Suppose the moral teachings of Church A are far more effective at preventing it than Church B. Now assuming you agree with that, what would you say when people from Church B continually present arguments saying that Church A is in terrible shape?
That Church B should not apply its moral teachings, but apply Church A to get a clearer picture by Church A's own judgement, when abortion is prevented by methods that the moral teachings of Church A condemn as equal to abortion.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth