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Author Topic: British Orthodox Church - Rite of Glastonbury  (Read 2677 times) Average Rating: 0
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Andrew - The First Called
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« on: January 12, 2011, 09:48:13 AM »

Does anyone know where I can view the text of the Divine Liturgy of Glastonbury (the old rite of the BOC) ?
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 02:29:07 AM »

I am interested as well.
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 05:35:21 AM »

At the Church Secretariat I guess, in the Church Library. It hasn't been used for 18-19 years. The Liturgy of St James was used for some years before the union in 1994.
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 08:12:11 AM »

Library of Congress

LC Control No.: 84223277

http://lccn.loc.gov/84223277
 
 
Main Title: The divine liturgy and other sacred offices, rites, and ceremonies of the church according to the use of the venerable churches of Glastonbury and Caertroia within the Orthodox Church of the British Isles and commonly called the Glastonbury Rite.
 
 
LC Classification: BX4795.C36 C38 1975
 
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 08:16:54 AM »

Of course, and the British Library too.

It is hardly a secret text. The easiest way for someone really interested to find a copy would be to contact the Secretariat as I said.
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 08:27:51 AM »

Library of Congress

LC Control No.: 84223277

http://lccn.loc.gov/84223277
 
 
Main Title: The divine liturgy and other sacred offices, rites, and ceremonies of the church according to the use of the venerable churches of Glastonbury and Caertroia within the Orthodox Church of the British Isles and commonly called the Glastonbury Rite.
 
 
LC Classification: BX4795.C36 C38 1975
 


LC Control No.: 84223277 
LCCN Permalink: http://lccn.loc.gov/84223277
Type of Material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.)
Corporate Name: Catholic Apostolic Church (Metropolis of Glastonbury)
Main Title: The divine liturgy and other sacred offices, rites, and ceremonies of the church according to the use of the venerable churches of Glastonbury and Caertroia within the Orthodox Church of the British Isles and commonly called the Glastonbury Rite.
Published/Created: Glastonbury, Somerset, England : Metropolitical Press, <1975- >
Description: v. <6, pts. 1, 3> ; 26 cm.
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

CALL NUMBER: BX4795.C36 C38 1975
 Copy 1
-- Request in: Jefferson or Adams Building Reading Rooms
 
-- Status: Not Charged
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 08:42:22 AM »

At the Church Secretariat I guess, in the Church Library. It hasn't been used for 18-19 years. The Liturgy of St James was used for some years before the union in 1994.

So the British Orthodox Church used to use some form of WR? Why it switched to Oriental rite?
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 01:59:43 PM »

I suppose the main reason was because it was decided that among other regularisations which were likely to be required for reunion with the wider communion of the Church, using an ancient Liturgy was a necessary one.

I have not wished to change our use of the Liturgy of St James. I think the edition is beautiful, and in terms of textual accuracy I have compared it with a variety of editions including that of Archimandrite Ephrem Lash and found it identical. I have grown to love it very much.

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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 05:57:01 PM »

I suppose the main reason was because it was decided that among other regularisations which were likely to be required for reunion with the wider communion of the Church, using an ancient Liturgy was a necessary one.

Why is the antiquity of the Glastonbury rite in question? I thought it was based off the ancient Gallican rite.
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 06:14:35 PM »

What does 'based off' mean though? It can mean a whole load of things.

I don't think that was an adequate basis as a liturgical tradition to approach the Orthodox Communion. Even though I prayed the rite many times. And benefitted from it.
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2011, 06:15:44 PM »

Was it then judged that its basis in the actual ancient Gallican rite was not sufficient?
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2011, 06:28:45 PM »

It suppose it was not the Gallican Rite, it was a Gallican type rite. There were others produced by other people. I guess it requires a lot of guess work, personal decisions about what to include etc etc etc.

Personally I don't believe that a Gallican Rite - if it were authentically recoverable - is any more appropriate for 21st century Britain than any of the authentic liturgies and rites which have survived in the East. It would be just as alien to modern sensibilities.

I like St James very much, and all the people who worship with us from a very wide variety of backgrounds also seem to like it.
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 06:39:59 PM »

Personally I don't believe that a Gallican Rite - if it were authentically recoverable - is any more appropriate for 21st century Britain than any of the authentic liturgies and rites which have survived in the East.

One thing I have wondered about is if, perhaps, either the surviving Ambrosian or Mozarabic rites might be better bases for reconstructing an ancient Western Orthodox Liturgy, rather than trying with liturgies which have not survived.

It would be just as alien to modern sensibilities.

Could you explain why you think this? This is something I have wondered about: whether the ancient Western liturgies might speak more to the sensibilities of modern Westerners.
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2011, 06:45:06 PM »

There are lots of ex-Anglicans in the BOC. The issue of rite is not a very pressing one for most people seeking Orthodoxy in my experience. There are undoubtedly those for whom it is very important. I don't think this is the case for the vast majority of British people.
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2011, 06:55:01 PM »

There are lots of ex-Anglicans in the BOC. The issue of rite is not a very pressing one for most people seeking Orthodoxy in my experience. There are undoubtedly those for whom it is very important. I don't think this is the case for the vast majority of British people.

Well certainly I agree that it is not fundamental to the point that the availability of a certain rite should constrain one's ability or willingness to become part of the Church.
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2011, 07:08:07 PM »

We've been and are in contact with hundreds of British enquirers and I can think of only one who made the issue of rite a show stopper.
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2011, 07:15:43 PM »

We've been and are in contact with hundreds of British enquirers and I can think of only one who made the issue of rite a show stopper.

Good.

Well, I wasn't trying to get into that territory. I agree that rite in and of itself should not be a show stopping issue (though perhaps more so how culturally appropriately the given rite is presented, for example whether it is served in an understandable language or not). But I may attribute some lesser importance to it than that.
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2011, 09:57:52 PM »

This whole discussion is way above my head, but I get the feeling this thread may be relevant:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,27421.0.html

Everyone please forgive me if it is not relevant.

 

Father Peter,

Are there any youtube, or other online videos, showing all or part of the BOC's liturgy?
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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2011, 10:17:18 PM »

doing a youtube search, I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7KI_yb1tJw
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2011, 03:28:32 AM »

The Metropolis of Glastonbury used the Divine Liturgy of St Joseph of Arimathea and the Divine Liturgy of St Aristobulus.

I am not sure if these equate to "the Divine Liturgy of Glastonbury" about which you are enquiring.  Father Peter would know.  I can obtain copies of these fairly easily.
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2011, 06:26:30 AM »

doing a youtube search, I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7KI_yb1tJw

...

So far as I can tell, that Baptism was performed long after the union with the Coptic church and thus long after the BOC had discontinued their use of the "rite of Glastonbury".
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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2011, 06:47:22 AM »

We went over to the Coptic rite before 1994. Probably 1993 or 1992.
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2011, 01:49:09 PM »

well....it's chanted differently.  Is that how the Glastonbury rite was chanted?
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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2011, 04:51:06 PM »

Ah. I don't know. What I can say is that of the few videos I have seen of BO liturgy that it seems that this chant (whatever it is) is the standard chant of the BOC.
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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2011, 04:56:55 PM »

This chant (whatever it is) is the present simple chant we use.

You are expecting too much if you expect a Cathedral quality chant tradition to drop from the sky. It suits us and it suits out circumstances at present. Everyone can join in straightaway, and people do.

The reason we don't post loads of video online is that liturgy is for participating in, not discussing on forums.
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2011, 05:41:13 PM »

This chant (whatever it is) is the present simple chant we use.

You are expecting too much if you expect a Cathedral quality chant tradition to drop from the sky. It suits us and it suits out circumstances at present. Everyone can join in straightaway, and people do.

The reason we don't post loads of video online is that liturgy is for participating in, not discussing on forums.

Father, if only there was a BOC in the US, I'd be participating myself.  Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2011, 05:51:47 PM »

This chant (whatever it is) is the present simple chant we use.

You are expecting too much if you expect a Cathedral quality chant tradition to drop from the sky. It suits us and it suits out circumstances at present. Everyone can join in straightaway, and people do.

The reason we don't post loads of video online is that liturgy is for participating in, not discussing on forums.

Father, if only there was a BOC in the US, I'd be participating myself.  Smiley

As Father has pointed out before a few times, the BOC is by nature a provincial/regional church (as the churches predominantly used to be [and as I wish they would return to being]). As such, it has no room having a presence in the US. Rather, what needs to happen is for an American Orthodox Church to develop, perhaps somewhat modeled after the BOC.
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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2011, 06:32:31 PM »

This chant (whatever it is) is the present simple chant we use.

You are expecting too much if you expect a Cathedral quality chant tradition to drop from the sky. It suits us and it suits out circumstances at present. Everyone can join in straightaway, and people do.

The reason we don't post loads of video online is that liturgy is for participating in, not discussing on forums.

Father, if only there was a BOC in the US, I'd be participating myself.  Smiley

As Father has pointed out before a few times, the BOC is by nature a provincial/regional church (as the churches predominantly used to be [and as I wish they would return to being]). As such, it has no room having a presence in the US. Rather, what needs to happen is for an American Orthodox Church to develop, perhaps somewhat modeled after the BOC.

I know, I'm only answering concerning the participation of the mysteries.  Because I'm not near a BOC, videos would help me learn and understand the BOC, and perhaps call for a personal private participation.
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