Author Topic: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development  (Read 4716 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2011, 08:52:00 PM »
Vladimir Soloviev. Isn't he one of the darlings of those pushing submission to the Vatican?
No, he's respected by us Catholics who want you to join Christ's Church.
We Catholics are in Christ's One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which, according to every fan of Soliev that I'm come across, Soliev left.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2011, 08:52:34 PM »
asdfjkl;
« Last Edit: February 08, 2011, 08:53:40 PM by Asteriktos »
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2011, 09:09:09 PM »
http://orthodoxyandrecovery.blogspot.com
The most dangerous thing about riding a tiger is the dismount.  - Indian proverb

Offline rimlyanin

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2011, 01:17:02 PM »
Maybe in hopes of ensuring that the discussion of the original post, and perhaps the overall discussion between Orthodox and Catholic points of view, would be more constructive and less 'sophistic' in nature if definitions were established for certain terms prior to arguing and kept in mind while arguing: 

theogoumen
doctirine
dogma

infallible
theological certitude

orthodox (established) teaching
catholic (universal) teaching

clarification
development
innovation

I will suggest one definition: 
Sophist - A person who employs the art of persuasion by attempting to make a weaker argument appear stronger simply as a means to win an argument, not to discover the truth.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2011, 12:58:55 AM »
Interestingly, some skeptics apparently used the sophist tactics of "making the weaker argument appear stronger" and/or arguing both sides in order to better illuminate truth/reality. Regarding the rest of your post, let me think on those terms for a while (I want to avoid putting my foot in my mouth if at all possible!)...
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2011, 09:37:17 PM »
Still thinking...  :angel: :D
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline Peter J

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #51 on: April 02, 2011, 09:25:02 PM »
... if definitions were established for certain terms prior to arguing and kept in mind while arguing: 

theogoumen
doctirine
dogma

Good idea.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Peter J

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2011, 07:29:06 AM »
I have a question for those who believe in development of doctrine:

Mardukm used to claim that, for instance the IC was a theologoumen.  Did it rise up over time to the status of dogma? Can theologoumen become doctrine and then dogma?

I've seen the degrees of "theological certitude" that the Vatican's theologians have set up. Does something move up in theological certitude until it becomes infallible?  What propels this motion.

I am of the opinion, in case if their is a question, that if something is a theologoumen in the days of the Apostles, it pretty much will stay a theologoumen until Judgment Day (Judgement Day for those of you under Her Britannic Majesty). I can't recall anything that has gone from theogoumen to dogma (and btw, I do make a distinction between doctine and dogma).

If something is a dogma today, then it must have been "referable to the Apostolic depositum" (cf. Cardinal Newman) in the first place.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2013, 03:44:19 AM »
I guess this is as good a place as any to put this... I want to study this issue in more depth and have drawn up a tentative reading list. If you would, please let me know if any particular books listed are helpful or not helpful, and also what books I've missed and need to add?

Cardinal John Henry Newman - Conscience, Consensus, and the Development of Doctrine
David N. Bell - A Cloud of Witnesses: An Introductory History of the Development of Christian Doctrine
Owen Chadwick - From Bossuet to Newman
Aidan Nichols - From Newman to Congar: The Idea of Doctrinal Development from the Victorians to the Second Vatican Council
J.H. Walgrave - Newman the Theologian: The Nature of Belief and Doctrine as Exemplified in His Life and Works
Henry Hotchkiss - Orthodoxy and Western Culture: A Collection of Essays Honoring Jaroslav Pelikan on His Eightieth Birthday
Jan Hendrik Walgrave - Unfolding Revelation: The Nature of Doctrinal Development
The Catholic Theological Society of America - Proceedings of the Eighteenth Annual Convention
Paul Misner - Papacy and development: Newman and the Primacy of the Pope
Jaroslav Pelikan - Development of Christian Doctrine: Some Historical Prolegomena
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #54 on: January 03, 2013, 08:26:51 AM »
I figured it'd be a long shot, but... anyone? :)
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!

Online Cyrillic

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #55 on: January 03, 2013, 08:31:36 AM »
I only know that Card. Newman knew a lot about it.
"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."
-Oscar Wilde, The Decay of Lying

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Fundamental Idea Behind Doctrinal Development
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2013, 02:40:06 AM »
More than me anyway!
We all have an El Guapo to face. Be brave, and fight like lions!

Form a 'brute squad' then!