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Author Topic: Who changed text of First Ecumenical Council?  (Read 432 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 08, 2011, 08:09:01 PM »

Does anyone have any more information or text to further explain this? (in bold)


Excursus on the Extent of the Jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome Over the Suburbican Churches. (First Ecumenical Council)
Quote
Although, as Hefele well says, “It is evident that the Council has not in view here the primacy of the Bishop of Rome over the whole Church, but simply his power as a patriarch,” yet it may not be unimportant to consider what his patriarchal limits may have been.
(Hefele, Hist. Councils, Vol. I., p. 397.)

The translation of this [VI.] canon by Rufinus has been especially an apple of discord.  Et ut apud Alexandriam et in urbe Roma vetusta consuetudo servetur, ut vel ille Egypti vel hic suburbicariarum ecclesiarum sollicitudinem gerat.  In the seventeenth century this sentence of Rufinus gave rise to a very lively discussion between the celebrated jurist, Jacob Gothfried (Gothofredus), and his friend, Salmasius, on one side, and the Jesuit, Sirmond, on the other.  The great prefecture of Italy, which contained about a third of the whole Roman Empire, was divided into four vicariates, among which the vicariate of Rome was the first.  At its head were two officers, the prœfectus urbi and the vicarius urbis.  The prœfectus urbi exercised authority over the city of Rome, and further in a suburban circle as far as the hundredth milestone.  The boundary of the vicarius urbis comprised ten provinces—Campania, Tuscia with Ombria, Picenum, Valeria, Samnium, Apulia with Calabria, Lucania and that of the Brutii, Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica.  Gothfried and Salmasius maintained, that by the regiones suburbicariæ the little territory of the prœfectus urbi must be understood; while, according to Sirmond, these words designate the whole territory of the vicarius urbis.  In our time Dr. Maasen has proved in his book, already quoted several times, that Gothfried and Salmasius were right in maintaining that, by the regiones suburbicariæ, the little territory of the prœfectus urbi must be alone understood.

Hefele thinks that Phillips “has proved” that the Bishop of Rome had patriarchal rights over places outside the limits of the ten provinces of the vicarius urbis; but does not agree with Phillips in thinking Rufinus in error.  As a matter of fact the point is a difficult one, and has little to do with the gist of the meaning of the canon.  One thing is certain:  the early Latin version of the canons, called the Prisca, was not satisfied with the Greek wording and made the Canon read thus:  “It is of ancient custom that the bishop of the city of Rome should have a primacy (principatum), so that he should govern with care the suburban places, and all his own province.” Another interesting reading is that found in several mss. which begins, “The Church of Rome hath always had a primacy (primatum),” and as a matter of fact the early date of this addition is evinced by the fact that the canon was actually quoted in this shape by Paschasinus at the Council of Chalcedon.

Hefele further on says, “The Greek commentators Zonaras and Balsamon (of the twelfth century) say very explicitly, in their explanation of the Canons of Nice, that this sixth canon confirms the rights of the Bishop of Rome as patriarch over the whole West,” and refers to Beveridge’s Synodicon, Tom. I., pp. 66 and 67.  After diligent search I can find nothing to warrant the great amplitude of this statement.  Balsamon’s interpretation is very vague, being simply that the Bishop of Rome is over the Western Eparchies (τῶν ἑσπερίων ἐπάρχιων) and Zonaras still more vaguely says that τῶν ἑσπερίων ἄρχειν ἔθος ἐκράτησε.  That the whole West was in a general way understood to be in the Roman Patriarchate I have no doubt, that the Greek scholiasts just quoted deemed it to be so I think most probably the case, but it does not seem to me that they have said so in the particular place cited.  It seems to me that all they meant to say was that the custom observed at Alexandria and Antioch was no purely Eastern and local thing, for a similar state of affairs was found in the West
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214.vii.vi.ix.html

Early addition or early deletion? Either way, does anyone have any more info on this to clarify?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 08:10:00 PM by Azurestone » Logged


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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2011, 09:16:07 PM »

To me it seems that from a certain point in time, there seems to be a very deep divide on the West and the East's understanding of the role of the Bishop of Rome.  The East have always maintained that Rome is no more than the West, while the East had her different provinces (Antioch took care of the Far East, and not even all of those were subject to the authority of Antioch; Alexandria all of Africa; and then there was Jerusalem).  Constantinople later on took on a large role as New Rome in the East.

Whatever it may be, this shows actually a difference in understanding between the Greek and the Latin.  The Latins thought Rome was the center of the world Church, whereas the Greek thought Rome was one of the centers of the Church, but not THE center.

The question isn't who changed.  It's clear the Latins in translating the text seem to have read the council of Nicea differently than the Greeks.
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2011, 09:31:41 PM »

minasoliman

I have some questions about something you said, but since it seemed off topic, I started a new thread. If you have any thoughts regarding the questions on the other thread, please do post them.
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2011, 09:55:33 PM »

Does anyone have any more information or text to further explain this? (in bold)


Excursus on the Extent of the Jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome Over the Suburbican Churches. (First Ecumenical Council)
Quote
Although, as Hefele well says, “It is evident that the Council has not in view here the primacy of the Bishop of Rome over the whole Church, but simply his power as a patriarch,” yet it may not be unimportant to consider what his patriarchal limits may have been.
(Hefele, Hist. Councils, Vol. I., p. 397.)

The translation of this [VI.] canon by Rufinus has been especially an apple of discord.  Et ut apud Alexandriam et in urbe Roma vetusta consuetudo servetur, ut vel ille Egypti vel hic suburbicariarum ecclesiarum sollicitudinem gerat.  In the seventeenth century this sentence of Rufinus gave rise to a very lively discussion between the celebrated jurist, Jacob Gothfried (Gothofredus), and his friend, Salmasius, on one side, and the Jesuit, Sirmond, on the other.  The great prefecture of Italy, which contained about a third of the whole Roman Empire, was divided into four vicariates, among which the vicariate of Rome was the first.  At its head were two officers, the prœfectus urbi and the vicarius urbis.  The prœfectus urbi exercised authority over the city of Rome, and further in a suburban circle as far as the hundredth milestone.  The boundary of the vicarius urbis comprised ten provinces—Campania, Tuscia with Ombria, Picenum, Valeria, Samnium, Apulia with Calabria, Lucania and that of the Brutii, Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica.  Gothfried and Salmasius maintained, that by the regiones suburbicariæ the little territory of the prœfectus urbi must be understood; while, according to Sirmond, these words designate the whole territory of the vicarius urbis.  In our time Dr. Maasen has proved in his book, already quoted several times, that Gothfried and Salmasius were right in maintaining that, by the regiones suburbicariæ, the little territory of the prœfectus urbi must be alone understood.

Hefele thinks that Phillips “has proved” that the Bishop of Rome had patriarchal rights over places outside the limits of the ten provinces of the vicarius urbis; but does not agree with Phillips in thinking Rufinus in error.  As a matter of fact the point is a difficult one, and has little to do with the gist of the meaning of the canon.  One thing is certain:  the early Latin version of the canons, called the Prisca, was not satisfied with the Greek wording and made the Canon read thus:  “It is of ancient custom that the bishop of the city of Rome should have a primacy (principatum), so that he should govern with care the suburban places, and all his own province.” Another interesting reading is that found in several mss. which begins, “The Church of Rome hath always had a primacy (primatum),” and as a matter of fact the early date of this addition is evinced by the fact that the canon was actually quoted in this shape by Paschasinus at the Council of Chalcedon.

Hefele further on says, “The Greek commentators Zonaras and Balsamon (of the twelfth century) say very explicitly, in their explanation of the Canons of Nice, that this sixth canon confirms the rights of the Bishop of Rome as patriarch over the whole West,” and refers to Beveridge’s Synodicon, Tom. I., pp. 66 and 67.  After diligent search I can find nothing to warrant the great amplitude of this statement.  Balsamon’s interpretation is very vague, being simply that the Bishop of Rome is over the Western Eparchies (τῶν ἑσπερίων ἐπάρχιων) and Zonaras still more vaguely says that τῶν ἑσπερίων ἄρχειν ἔθος ἐκράτησε.  That the whole West was in a general way understood to be in the Roman Patriarchate I have no doubt, that the Greek scholiasts just quoted deemed it to be so I think most probably the case, but it does not seem to me that they have said so in the particular place cited.  It seems to me that all they meant to say was that the custom observed at Alexandria and Antioch was no purely Eastern and local thing, for a similar state of affairs was found in the West
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214.vii.vi.ix.html

Early addition or early deletion? Either way, does anyone have any more info on this to clarify?
The church of the ancient councils: the disciplinary work of the first four councils By Peter L'Huillier

http://books.google.com/books?id=Umse6CFnt3MC&pg=PA52&dq=church+of+the+ancient+councils+Codex+Ingilrami+Scholastic&hl=en&ei=khQpTdPBHtGbnwfkkNDkAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=Umse6CFnt3MC&pg=PA93&dq=church+of+the+ancient+councils+paschasinus+primatus&hl=en&ei=vhMpTafpI4rCnAex94zaAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=Umse6CFnt3MC&pg=PA45&dq=church+of+the+ancient+council++6+Pentapolis&hl=en&ei=FxUpTYj8BJOgnwfaqpWGAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=church%20of%20the%20ancient%20council%20%206%20Pentapolis&f=false
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