Author Topic: Mary and the Eucharist  (Read 1171 times)

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Offline Ortho_cat

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Mary and the Eucharist
« on: January 03, 2011, 06:21:36 PM »
I came across this article while doing research on the Marian and Eucharistic Shrines. Yes, I know it comes from a protestant source, but it does appear to be well documented with quotes from Catholic Church fathers/saints:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc142.htm

Several of the quotes present in this article led me to believe that some Catholics believe that Mary is present in the eucharist as well. Is this a commonly held belief? What do you believe is the relationship/connection between her and the eucharist?

Also, I would like Orthodox input into this concept as well. What is the Theotokos' relationship to the eucharist? Is there common ground here with the RC's?

Offline Schultz

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2011, 06:24:48 PM »
I came across this article while doing research on the Marian and Eucharistic Shrines. Yes, I know it comes from a protestant source, but it does appear to be well documented with quotes from Catholic Church fathers/saints:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc142.htm

Several of the quotes present in this article led me to believe that some Catholics believe that Mary is present in the eucharist as well. Is this a commonly held belief? What do you believe is the relationship/connection between her and the eucharist?

Also, I would like Orthodox input into this concept as well. What is the Theotokos' relationship to the eucharist? Is there common ground here with the RC's?

In my 34 years as a Roman Catholic, I never experienced such a belief and I've known some pretty hardcore traditional darn-near Sedevacantist apparition-chasing-Fatima-believing-coredemptrix types.

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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2011, 06:35:56 PM »
I came across this article while doing research on the Marian and Eucharistic Shrines. Yes, I know it comes from a protestant source, but it does appear to be well documented with quotes from Catholic Church fathers/saints:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc142.htm

Several of the quotes present in this article led me to believe that some Catholics believe that Mary is present in the eucharist as well. Is this a commonly held belief? What do you believe is the relationship/connection between her and the eucharist?

Also, I would like Orthodox input into this concept as well. What is the Theotokos' relationship to the eucharist? Is there common ground here with the RC's?

In my 34 years as a Roman Catholic, I never experienced such a belief and I've known some pretty hardcore traditional darn-near Sedevacantist apparition-chasing-Fatima-believing-coredemptrix types.



Interesting. However, I wonder what then we are to make of quotes such as these by Fr. Manelli presented in the article:

"Therefore at every Holy Communion we receive, it would be quite correct, and a very beautiful thing, to TAKE NOTICE OF OUR HOLY MOTHER’S SWEET AND MYSTERIOUS PRESENCE, INSEPARABLY UNITED WITH JESUS IN THIS HOST."

“Furthermore, if we reflect that Jesus, the Fruit of Mary's immaculate womb, constitutes Mary's love, all of Her sweetness, all of Her tenderness, Her whole riches, Her whole life, then we see that when we receive Him we cannot fail to also receive Her who, by ties of the highest love, as well as by ties of flesh and blood, forms with Jesus one unity, one whole, as She is always and inseparably "leaning upon Her Beloved”

and this here from St. Albert the Great:

‘My Soul if you wish to experience intimacy with Mary let yourself be carried between Her arms and nourished with Her blood’ ... Go with this ineffable chaste thought to the banquet of God and you will find in the Blood of the Son the nourishment of the Mother.”

edit: added extra quote
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 06:40:55 PM by Ortho_cat »

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 06:41:01 PM »
Well, in that it is the Body of Christ, the entire Church is there, in a way, although we are not consuming the Church, the Most Holy Theotokos, or eachother, but communing with them in Christ. We all partake of Christ. The priest, in the proskomide cuts the bread into several pieces with commemorations of Our Lady, the angels, the saints, and the living and departed Orthodoxy. As I understand, all of these are consecrated into the body of Christ. Maybe a priest could clarify this, please.
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Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 06:59:02 PM »
I came across this article while doing research on the Marian and Eucharistic Shrines. Yes, I know it comes from a protestant source, but it does appear to be well documented with quotes from Catholic Church fathers/saints:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc142.htm

Several of the quotes present in this article led me to believe that some Catholics believe that Mary is present in the eucharist as well. Is this a commonly held belief? What do you believe is the relationship/connection between her and the eucharist?

Also, I would like Orthodox input into this concept as well. What is the Theotokos' relationship to the eucharist? Is there common ground here with the RC's?

In my 34 years as a Roman Catholic, I never experienced such a belief and I've known some pretty hardcore traditional darn-near Sedevacantist apparition-chasing-Fatima-believing-coredemptrix types.


My "education" on that score is sorely lacking. 

The Lord is Kind and Merciful...

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Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2011, 06:59:02 PM »
Well, in that it is the Body of Christ, the entire Church is there, in a way, although we are not consuming the Church, the Most Holy Theotokos, or eachother, but communing with them in Christ. We all partake of Christ. The priest, in the proskomide cuts the bread into several pieces with commemorations of Our Lady, the angels, the saints, and the living and departed Orthodoxy. As I understand, all of these are consecrated into the body of Christ. Maybe a priest could clarify this, please.

I don't mean to step in here with ANY authority, but I understand things the way that you have described them here.  The "presence" of all but Christ is meant in a spiritual manner, while the real presence of Christ is a very real, and material, as well as spiritual presence.

It is our participation in the divine life and also in the Eucharistic life then that brings the living body into communion, along with the angels and the saints, including his pure mother.

M.

Offline Wyatt

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2011, 07:03:03 PM »
While we believe that the Blessed Virgin as well as all the Angels and Saints of the Church are present at the Eucharistic sacrifice (since it transcends time and space), only the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ can be considered to be fully and substantially present under the appearance of bread and wine.

Online Father H

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2011, 10:52:58 PM »
I came across this article while doing research on the Marian and Eucharistic Shrines. Yes, I know it comes from a protestant source, but it does appear to be well documented with quotes from Catholic Church fathers/saints:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc142.htm
Several of the quotes present in this article led me to believe that some Catholics believe that Mary is present in the eucharist as well. Is this a commonly held belief? What do you believe is the relationship/connection between her and the eucharist?
Also, I would like Orthodox input into this concept as well. What is the Theotokos' relationship to the eucharist? Is there common ground here with the RC's?

The Theotokos is no more present in the Lamb and the Cup than is king David.  Christ took flesh and blood of this lineage, but it is the Body and Blood of His prosopon

Online Father H

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2011, 10:54:28 PM »
Obviously the Theotokos and the Saints are present with us in the Liturgy, but not in the Lamb or the Cup.   

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2011, 11:16:04 PM »
Obviously the Theotokos and the Saints are present with us in the Liturgy, but not in the Lamb or the Cup.   

Well, it's good to see that there is no confusion here, at least from an Orthodox standpoint.

Offline Wyatt

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2011, 12:09:31 AM »
Obviously the Theotokos and the Saints are present with us in the Liturgy, but not in the Lamb or the Cup.   

Well, it's good to see that there is no confusion here, at least from an Orthodox standpoint.
That is what I was trying to explain that the RC view is too. Hopefully I was clear.

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2011, 12:10:50 AM »
Obviously the Theotokos and the Saints are present with us in the Liturgy, but not in the Lamb or the Cup.    

Well, it's good to see that there is no confusion here, at least from an Orthodox standpoint.
That is what I was trying to explain that the RC view is too. Hopefully I was clear.

Very well, thanks. I guess I am somewhat puzzled by the nature of the quotes I mentioned in the OP though, as they seem to imply otherwise. Perhaps I am reading into them the intentions of the person who wrote the article instead of what the Church actually teaches.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 12:12:44 AM by Ortho_cat »

Offline Wyatt

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2011, 12:19:19 AM »
Obviously the Theotokos and the Saints are present with us in the Liturgy, but not in the Lamb or the Cup.    

Well, it's good to see that there is no confusion here, at least from an Orthodox standpoint.
That is what I was trying to explain that the RC view is too. Hopefully I was clear.

Very well, thanks. I guess I am somewhat puzzled by the nature of the quotes I mentioned in the OP though, as they seem to imply otherwise. Perhaps I am reading into them the intentions of the person who wrote the article instead of what the Church actually teaches.
Well, you said it yourself in your opening post. It came from a Protestant source. Anyone can quote saints and/or Church Fathers and infer a meaning into the quotes which aren't there. When we speak of the Blessed Virgin being "co-mediatrix" or "co-redemptress" we mean "co-" as in cooperation with God. It certainly doesn't mean that her role is equal to that of Christ when He died on Calvary, nor does it mean that we receive her body and blood in the Eucharist. We simply acknowledge that, as the Mother of God, Mary cooperated with God in a special way that no other human has by housing God Incarnate within her womb.

Offline Jakub

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2011, 12:24:37 AM »
To the best of my recollection I've never heard or read of this idea before...though being a certain age doesn't guarantee that my recollection is correct  ;)
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2011, 12:28:23 AM »
Obviously the Theotokos and the Saints are present with us in the Liturgy, but not in the Lamb or the Cup.    

Well, it's good to see that there is no confusion here, at least from an Orthodox standpoint.
That is what I was trying to explain that the RC view is too. Hopefully I was clear.

Very well, thanks. I guess I am somewhat puzzled by the nature of the quotes I mentioned in the OP though, as they seem to imply otherwise. Perhaps I am reading into them the intentions of the person who wrote the article instead of what the Church actually teaches.
Well, you said it yourself in your opening post. It came from a Protestant source. Anyone can quote saints and/or Church Fathers and infer a meaning into the quotes which aren't there. When we speak of the Blessed Virgin being "co-mediatrix" or "co-redemptress" we mean "co-" as in cooperation with God. It certainly doesn't mean that her role is equal to that of Christ when He died on Calvary, nor does it mean that we receive her body and blood in the Eucharist. We simply acknowledge that, as the Mother of God, Mary cooperated with God in a special way that no other human has by housing God Incarnate within her womb.

Ok this is what I thought. Very well.

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Mary and the Eucharist
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2011, 01:42:02 PM »
Obviously the Theotokos and the Saints are present with us in the Liturgy, but not in the Lamb or the Cup.   

Well, it's good to see that there is no confusion here, at least from an Orthodox standpoint.

The same holds true in the Catholic Church.