OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 24, 2014, 07:12:05 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Epsicopal Equality  (Read 1121 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
dcointin
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 61


« on: December 30, 2010, 11:47:59 AM »

I'd like everyone's thoughts on the subject of the equality of bishops.  I was taught that all bishops are equal, and the distinctions between them are only honorary.  It's clear however that metropolitans and patriarchs exercise jurisdictional authority over the bishops of their churches as well.  For example, the Patriarch of Antioch and Holy Synod decreed that the bishops under Metropolitan Phillip in the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America are now auxillary bishops and assistants to the Metropolitan, which indicates significant authority.  How do you reconcile these two claims, i.e. that bishops are equal, but that some possess greater authority?  Thank you!
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2010, 12:00:46 PM »

For example, the Patriarch of Antioch and Holy Synod

That's the answer to your question. Bishops are equal but there are synods about Bishops.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
dcointin
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 61


« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2010, 12:06:17 PM »

How so, if the Holy Synod exercised authority over other bishops?
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 12:08:09 PM »

For example, the Patriarch of Antioch and Holy Synod

That's the answer to your question. Bishops are equal but there are synods about Bishops.

I meant above Bishops* Wink
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
dcointin
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 61


« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 12:11:24 PM »

I admit that I know very little about the administration of Orthodox churches, which is why I'm trying to understand this.  Is the Holy Synod made up of other bishops exclusively?  How does it function?  How does it's authority relate to the patriarchs?
Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,512


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2010, 12:16:20 PM »

I admit that I know very little about the administration of Orthodox churches, which is why I'm trying to understand this.  Is the Holy Synod made up of other bishops exclusively?  How does it function?  How does it's authority relate to the patriarchs?

A recent example is when the OCA Snyod removed Met. Herman based on his malfeasance.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2010, 12:19:47 PM »

Doesn't the synod consist of all the bishops of the orthodox church, not just a select few.......so if one rouge bishop decides to do things  his way the synod steps in and corrects him ......Is this How It works...it Seems then Bishops are all equal...
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 12:30:50 PM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2010, 12:36:18 PM »

I admit that I know very little about the administration of Orthodox churches, which is why I'm trying to understand this.  Is the Holy Synod made up of other bishops exclusively?  How does it function?  How does it's authority relate to the patriarchs?

In smaller Churches all Bishops make Synod, in bigger - there are usually two Synods (lesser - with selected Bishops and great - with all). All participants have equal vote and their decisions are binding for everyone. In each autocephalous Church it differ a bit, there might be other rules such as age limit etc.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 12:37:27 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,346


metron ariston


« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2010, 12:54:48 PM »

I admit that I know very little about the administration of Orthodox churches, which is why I'm trying to understand this.  Is the Holy Synod made up of other bishops exclusively?  How does it function?  How does it's authority relate to the patriarchs?

Prof. Lewis Patsavos has written an overview of the role of synods in the Church, including an explanation of how many of the autocephalous churches understand and organize their synods: http://goarch.org/ourfaith/synodal-structure.
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2010, 01:00:35 PM »

Bishops are sacramentally equal, but may function differently in church administration.

First, there are Diocesan Bishops. These are bishops that rule a diocese in their own right. No bishops may serve in their diocese without their blessing (this includes if a metropolitan/patriarch wants to serve in a diocesan bishop's territory). For example, the Patriarch Kyril of Moscow may come to the US, but he cannot serve until Metropolitan Hilarion (First Hierarch of ROCOR) gives his blessing.

Then, there are Auxilary Bishops. These are bishops with a see, but not ruling over their own diocese. Usually, they will have a see next to a ruling bishop's see. A recent example is how Bishop Mark, formerly of the Antiochians and now in the OCA, is currently Bishop of Baltimore, serving as an auxillary to Metropolitan Jonah, because Vladyka Jonah's see is Washington, D.C. and Baltimore is close by. Auxilary Bishops work administratively under their Diocesan Bishop, essentially doing what he asks of them, but they are still sacramentally bishops. They may ordain clergy, serve heirarchial liturgies, etc. They ARE bishops, and act as them. They simply do not have their own diocese.

Yet, all bishops sit upon the Great Synod of an autocephelous church and have a vote. The first heirarch (read, primate) of an autocelphelous church is the first among equals in his church, but he is among equals, and may be outvoted at a meeting of the Synod, and even removed from office by the Holy Synod (as mentioned earlier).

Above this, even, exists the Diptychs of the Holy Orthodox Church, which are read when a service is held by a primatial bishop. In normal services, we commemorate our bishop, archbishop/metropolitan and patriarch. But, when a primatial bishop is serving, he commemorates the heads of the other autocelphelous churches, in honor by rank. This begins with the Ecumenical Patriarch, who is first among equals for all Orthodox bishops, and lists, in order of precedence, each Orthodox primate.

In short, all bishops are equal. Some are just more equal than others. Wink j/k
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,346


metron ariston


« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2010, 01:17:26 PM »

Yet, all bishops sit upon the Great Synod of an autocephelous church and have a vote.

This is not so in any case I am aware of. Auxiliary bishops do not sit on any of the synods in America, even the Eparchial ones, and they certainly don't in any of the Patriarchates. In fact, I am not aware of any Orthodox Church that has a "Great Synod" -- Moscow sometimes called its lay/imperial-controlled governing body a "Great Synod," but I believe that has not been the case for many generations.

If you read the article I linked to above, you will see that every autocephalous church has different ways of constituting its synod and electing its primate. The article, however, is a little old, so some of the regulations have changed.
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2010, 01:51:56 PM »

I admit that I know very little about the administration of Orthodox churches, which is why I'm trying to understand this.  Is the Holy Synod made up of other bishops exclusively?  How does it function?  How does it's authority relate to the patriarchs?

Prof. Lewis Patsavos has written an overview of the role of synods in the Church, including an explanation of how many of the autocephalous churches understand and organize their synods: http://goarch.org/ourfaith/synodal-structure.
Quote
Beginning with the fourth century, although not everywhere at the same time, there appears the permanent or "endemousa" synod. Its characteristic feature consisted in the fact that it could easily be convened by the Patriarch of Constantinople, who summoned the bishops staying in the capital at the time ("endemountes") whenever the seriousness of the issue demanded. The "endemousa" synod presided over by the patriarch was permanent in the sense that the Church considered herself in a state of permanent synodal consultation whenever acting in unanimity for the common good.

The "endemousa" synod grew steadily in importance and eventually became a permanent institution in the Orthodox Church. Its preoccupation with doctrinal issues, legislative affairs and disciplinary matters far exceeded the traditional but limited role of the provincial synod. Furthermore, it did not require the elaborate preparations of an ecumenical synod. It has thus remained the most representative and enduring synodal structure within Eastern Orthodoxy. Its status and competence in each of the local Churches are clearly determined by statutes as well as by traditional practice
we don't need the Vatican's curia, nor the Phanar imitation.

I seem to recall that the Fathers set a canon against bishops neglecting their sees and lagging about the capital.

Quote
This venerable institution follows a monastic system of organization; the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem functions as abbot of the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulcher. It is, therefore, understandable that the preservation and protection of the holy shrines have traditionally constituted one of this patriarchate's chief concerns.
Hardly a Church.

Informative and interesting aritcle nonetheless. Efcharisto!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 02:07:28 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2010, 02:15:21 PM »

I admit that I know very little about the administration of Orthodox churches, which is why I'm trying to understand this.  Is the Holy Synod made up of other bishops exclusively?  How does it function?  How does it's authority relate to the patriarchs?
I'll assume you are in the US. Actually, the British system can provide an analogy as well.  All representatives/MP are equal, but the Speaker of the House and the House leadership/the Prime Minister and the other government ministers have more power, derived from the power of the House collectively.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2010, 02:20:30 PM »

Yet, all bishops sit upon the Great Synod of an autocephelous church and have a vote.

This is not so in any case I am aware of. Auxiliary bishops do not sit on any of the synods in America, even the Eparchial ones, and they certainly don't in any of the Patriarchates. In fact, I am not aware of any Orthodox Church that has a "Great Synod" -- Moscow sometimes called its lay/imperial-controlled governing body a "Great Synod," but I believe that has not been the case for many generations.

If you read the article I linked to above, you will see that every autocephalous church has different ways of constituting its synod and electing its primate. The article, however, is a little old, so some of the regulations have changed.

Please forgive me. Yes, all DIOCESAN bishops sit on the Synod of an autocelphelous church.

And "Great Synod" wasn't really an appropriate term to use. I meant to use it in order to differ from "Lesser" Synods that exist in some churches. The distinction was spoken of above, IIRC. I agree, as I don't believe any church currently uses the term "Great Synod." So, again, I apologize for my poor choice of words!
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,469


EXTERMINATE!


« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2010, 03:23:48 PM »

I admit that I know very little about the administration of Orthodox churches, which is why I'm trying to understand this.  Is the Holy Synod made up of other bishops exclusively?  How does it function?  How does it's authority relate to the patriarchs?

Prof. Lewis Patsavos has written an overview of the role of synods in the Church, including an explanation of how many of the autocephalous churches understand and organize their synods: http://goarch.org/ourfaith/synodal-structure.
Quote
Beginning with the fourth century, although not everywhere at the same time, there appears the permanent or "endemousa" synod. Its characteristic feature consisted in the fact that it could easily be convened by the Patriarch of Constantinople, who summoned the bishops staying in the capital at the time ("endemountes") whenever the seriousness of the issue demanded. The "endemousa" synod presided over by the patriarch was permanent in the sense that the Church considered herself in a state of permanent synodal consultation whenever acting in unanimity for the common good.

The "endemousa" synod grew steadily in importance and eventually became a permanent institution in the Orthodox Church. Its preoccupation with doctrinal issues, legislative affairs and disciplinary matters far exceeded the traditional but limited role of the provincial synod. Furthermore, it did not require the elaborate preparations of an ecumenical synod. It has thus remained the most representative and enduring synodal structure within Eastern Orthodoxy. Its status and competence in each of the local Churches are clearly determined by statutes as well as by traditional practice
we don't need the Vatican's curia, nor the Phanar imitation.
Isa, this thread isn't the place for yet another one of your displays of antagonism toward Constantinople or toward Rome. It's off-topic and contributes nothing to this discussion, so knock it off.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 03:24:44 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
dcointin
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 61


« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2010, 03:57:35 PM »

Thank you all for your responses, in particular the link that described the synodal governance of each autocephalus church.  So would it be fair to say that while all bishops have equal sacramental authority, some have greater jurisdictional authority?  This is a distinction I've heard in Catholic theology, but not yet in Orthodox theology.
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2010, 04:00:37 PM »

It's not theology but management.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2010, 05:07:35 PM »

Thank you all for your responses, in particular the link that described the synodal governance of each autocephalus church.  So would it be fair to say that while all bishops have equal sacramental authority, some have greater jurisdictional authority?  This is a distinction I've heard in Catholic theology, but not yet in Orthodox theology.
Basically, yes. It doesn't come up much because, per Apostolic canon 34, primates very rarely if ever act outside the context of their synod, e.g. most if not all acts are signed by the primate and the entire Holy Synod.

The only sacramental difference in appearance is that only autocephalous bishops consecrate chrism.  Any bishop can, but in practice do not.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,926


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2010, 06:43:24 PM »

Thank you all for your responses, in particular the link that described the synodal governance of each autocephalus church.  So would it be fair to say that while all bishops have equal sacramental authority, some have greater jurisdictional authority?  This is a distinction I've heard in Catholic theology, but not yet in Orthodox theology.
Basically, yes. It doesn't come up much because, per Apostolic canon 34, primates very rarely if ever act outside the context of their synod, e.g. most if not all acts are signed by the primate and the entire Holy Synod.

The only sacramental difference in appearance is that only autocephalous bishops consecrate chrism.  Any bishop can, but in practice do not.

I think your point on the chrism further demonstrates your other point viz-a-viz the limits of the primate; iirc, the "sacramental" right of the autocephalous primate alone to consecrate chrism is a right that was dictated by synod and not fiat (thus, the body limiting itself to further demonstrate the "one and many" principle operating between a primate/president and the synod they preside over).
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Dart
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 655


« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2010, 12:24:11 AM »

It is also important to note that not only are all Bishops equal but all Christians are equal. There is no distinction in holiness between the laity and clergy but only different vocations.

"It is clear then that for the New Testament there is only one priest, Jesus Christ, and that the whole people of God shares equally in this priesthood of Christ through baptism (the baptismal priesthood). Because of this common priesthood, all Christians are fundamentally equal, endowed with the same dignity and the same vocation to holiness. However, this fundamental equality among Christians does not mean that they all do the same things. There are an endless variety of functions all of which are necessary for the well-being of the church and must be exercised to build up the body of Christ. If these functions are to be put into a hierarchy, the criterion is neither  power nor holiness. That is, no function is superior to another in terms of power, and no function is better than another in terms of holiness: they are all mutually complementary. The only criterion for the distinction of functions in the church is service-in-love. As Alexandre Faivre puts it, “There is no question of a hierarchy of power or of holiness. What is involved is a hierarchy of service.”" --The Roman Catholic Theologian Fr. Peter Phan
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 12:29:20 AM by Dart » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,469


EXTERMINATE!


« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2010, 12:32:19 AM »

It is also important to note that not only are all Bishops equal but all Christians are equal. There is no distinction in holiness between the laity and clergy but only different vocations.

"It is clear then that for the New Testament there is only one priest, Jesus Christ, and that the whole people of God shares equally in this priesthood of Christ through baptism (the baptismal priesthood). Because of this common priesthood, all Christians are fundamentally equal, endowed with the same dignity and the same vocation to holiness. However, this fundamental equality among Christians does not mean that they all do the same things. There are an endless variety of functions all of which are necessary for the well-being of the church and must be exercised to build up the body of Christ. If these functions are to be put into a hierarchy, the criterion is neither  power nor holiness. That is, no function is superior to another in terms of power, and no function is better than another in terms of holiness: they are all mutually complementary. The only criterion for the distinction of functions in the church is service-in-love. As Alexandre Faivre puts it, “There is no question of a hierarchy of power or of holiness. What is involved is a hierarchy of service.”" --The Roman Catholic Theologian Fr. Peter Phan
And what does the thought of a Roman Catholic theologian have to do with this matter of how the Orthodox Church practices her faith? Rome doesn't define us.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 12:33:09 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Dart
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 655


« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2010, 12:35:44 AM »

It is also important to note that not only are all Bishops equal but all Christians are equal. There is no distinction in holiness between the laity and clergy but only different vocations.

"It is clear then that for the New Testament there is only one priest, Jesus Christ, and that the whole people of God shares equally in this priesthood of Christ through baptism (the baptismal priesthood). Because of this common priesthood, all Christians are fundamentally equal, endowed with the same dignity and the same vocation to holiness. However, this fundamental equality among Christians does not mean that they all do the same things. There are an endless variety of functions all of which are necessary for the well-being of the church and must be exercised to build up the body of Christ. If these functions are to be put into a hierarchy, the criterion is neither  power nor holiness. That is, no function is superior to another in terms of power, and no function is better than another in terms of holiness: they are all mutually complementary. The only criterion for the distinction of functions in the church is service-in-love. As Alexandre Faivre puts it, “There is no question of a hierarchy of power or of holiness. What is involved is a hierarchy of service.”" --The Roman Catholic Theologian Fr. Peter Phan
And what does the thought of a Roman Catholic theologian have to do with this matter of how the Orthodox Church practices her faith? Rome doesn't define us.

Even Catholics speak the truth from time to time.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 31,469


EXTERMINATE!


« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2010, 12:41:38 AM »

It is also important to note that not only are all Bishops equal but all Christians are equal. There is no distinction in holiness between the laity and clergy but only different vocations.

"It is clear then that for the New Testament there is only one priest, Jesus Christ, and that the whole people of God shares equally in this priesthood of Christ through baptism (the baptismal priesthood). Because of this common priesthood, all Christians are fundamentally equal, endowed with the same dignity and the same vocation to holiness. However, this fundamental equality among Christians does not mean that they all do the same things. There are an endless variety of functions all of which are necessary for the well-being of the church and must be exercised to build up the body of Christ. If these functions are to be put into a hierarchy, the criterion is neither  power nor holiness. That is, no function is superior to another in terms of power, and no function is better than another in terms of holiness: they are all mutually complementary. The only criterion for the distinction of functions in the church is service-in-love. As Alexandre Faivre puts it, “There is no question of a hierarchy of power or of holiness. What is involved is a hierarchy of service.”" --The Roman Catholic Theologian Fr. Peter Phan
And what does the thought of a Roman Catholic theologian have to do with this matter of how the Orthodox Church practices her faith? Rome doesn't define us.

Even Catholics speak the truth from time to time.
But they don't have much credibility to speak for what we Orthodox believe on a section of this forum devoted to discussing Orthodox Christianity. If you wish to show that this Catholic theologian spoke the truth in your quote, then compare his teaching with what has been taught traditionally in the Orthodox Church. Cite Orthodox Fathers if it helps.
Logged
Dart
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 655


« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2010, 01:13:37 AM »

It is also important to note that not only are all Bishops equal but all Christians are equal. There is no distinction in holiness between the laity and clergy but only different vocations.

"It is clear then that for the New Testament there is only one priest, Jesus Christ, and that the whole people of God shares equally in this priesthood of Christ through baptism (the baptismal priesthood). Because of this common priesthood, all Christians are fundamentally equal, endowed with the same dignity and the same vocation to holiness. However, this fundamental equality among Christians does not mean that they all do the same things. There are an endless variety of functions all of which are necessary for the well-being of the church and must be exercised to build up the body of Christ. If these functions are to be put into a hierarchy, the criterion is neither  power nor holiness. That is, no function is superior to another in terms of power, and no function is better than another in terms of holiness: they are all mutually complementary. The only criterion for the distinction of functions in the church is service-in-love. As Alexandre Faivre puts it, “There is no question of a hierarchy of power or of holiness. What is involved is a hierarchy of service.”" --The Roman Catholic Theologian Fr. Peter Phan
And what does the thought of a Roman Catholic theologian have to do with this matter of how the Orthodox Church practices her faith? Rome doesn't define us.

Even Catholics speak the truth from time to time.
But they don't have much credibility to speak for what we Orthodox believe on a section of this forum devoted to discussing Orthodox Christianity. If you wish to show that this Catholic theologian spoke the truth in your quote, then compare his teaching with what has been taught traditionally in the Orthodox Church. Cite Orthodox Fathers if it helps.

Oh sure that is easy.
Father Alexander Schmemann, "In the Orthodox Church clergy is not above laity..."
Father George Dragas professor of Holy Cross seminary, "In the Orthodox perspective of the Church there is no separation between the clergy and the laity. The clergy serves the laity, and both participate and grow in the fullness of Christ’s Body."

Ofcourse there is also 1 Corinthians that Father Peter Phan referenced from The New Testament.
Logged
Tags: bishops 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.104 seconds with 50 queries.