Author Topic: Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?  (Read 1173 times)

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Offline Mardukm

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Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« on: December 27, 2010, 09:29:08 AM »
Dear brother Jerold,

I am not aware of any Oriental Orthodox parishes or missions in the Philippines (I have a Filipina wife, and have visited there several times).  As sister Salpy stated, the most likely Oriental Orthodox Church there would be the Coptic Orthodox Church. However, there is an agreement between the COC and the CC against proselytizing each others' members, so unless there are Coptic Orthodox expatriates in the Philippines, it is not likely there will be a mission there, since the Philippines is a solidly Catholic country.

FYI, you are welcome to partake of the Eucharist at a Catholic Church in the Philippines.  I'm 100% positive that the Syriac Orthodox Church accepts the validity of the Sacraments of the Catholic Church. I'm not 100% sure about the Armenians, but I think they do (I wonder what sister Salpy would say).  The situation with the Copts is more - shall we say - complicated.

If you are currently a Protestant or a non-Christian, I urge you to not deprive yourself of the Holy Eucharist, and go to a Catholic Church to receive Him while you are in the Philippines.

Blessings,
Marduk

Good day to all,

Greetings in Lord Jesus Christ....Im new here and Im from the Philippines...

1. I want to know if there is any member here from philippines...
2. If there is anyone in oriental faith is/are living in philippines or have concerned about it or had mission to it....

Im on the constant move because I am a seaman...the world is my living ground....thats all for now and thanks for the reply...

GOD be with us always, Amen....Peace.

Jerold.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 03:00:51 PM by Salpy »

Offline ialmisry

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Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2010, 09:51:33 AM »
The situation with the Copts is more - shall we say - complicated.

You mean, the fact that the Coptic Church doesn't accept the Vatican's baptism as valid?

If you are currently a Protestant or a non-Christian, I urge you to not deprive yourself of the Holy Eucharist, and go to a Catholic Church to receive Him while you are in the Philippines.

If he was a Protestant or a non-Christian, the Vatican doesn't give him communion, holy or not.

If you are not yet in the Orthodox catechumenate, jerold (your post isn't clear), if you cannot get in touch with the Copts, Syriac, Armenian or Indian OO (the more likely groups you would encounter, given their diaspora.  There is also Ethiopia and Eritreia, given that you travel), I'd get in touch with the Antiochians as the next best thing: we are the closest of the EO to the OO.

http://www.antiochianarch.org.au/Philippines.aspx
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 09:51:50 AM by ialmisry »
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
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Offline Salpy

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Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2010, 11:26:05 AM »
I've heard now that there may be a Coptic mission in the Philippines, but I don't know any details.  From what I understand, the Coptic Orthodox Church does not recognized the validity of Catholic sacraments, and would not like its members or catechumens to commune there.

Perhaps Fr. Peter or Fr. Kyrillos could confirm one or both of the above points if they have the time.

From what I understand, the Antiochian Orthodox would be the "next best thing" if there is no Oriental Orthodox Church around.  However, to commune there I think the permission of the bishop would be required.


Marduk,
I really hope you are not trying to proselytize here.  You are an apostate from the Coptic Orthodox Church and really no longer represent that Church or its people.  You really can only speak here as a Catholic.  I'd appreciate it if you refrain from suggesting to our posters that they go to a Catholic Church.  Thanks.

Offline Mardukm

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Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 11:45:31 AM »
Marduk,
I really hope you are not trying to proselytize here.  You are an apostate from the Coptic Orthodox Church and really no longer represent that Church or its people.  You really can only speak here as a Catholic.  I'd appreciate it if you refrain from suggesting to our posters that they go to a Catholic Church.  Thanks.
[/color]
I don't know where the "proselytism" comment came from. The OP clearly stated he wanted to join the Oriental Orthodox communion, and I was only concerned that he should not deprive himself of the Body and Blood of Christ. Your legalism is strange to behold.

And you don't know what you are talking about. I am not an apostate. An apostate is one who has renounced his belief in Christ. I am well aware of your antagonism towards me ever since I once stated that the IC was a theologoumenon in the Armenian Church because you were ignorant of what the term "theologoumenon" meant.  And I can represent my Coptic Tradition well enough, thank you, without your judgmental antagonism, at the very least in those things which we share with the Catholic Church, which is a lot.

Blessings,
Marduk
 Mardukm, on this forum you don't have to agree with all moderators' decisions but according to the rules you should not discuss them publicly but you should PM the Global Moderator or one of the Admins instead. Therefore I give you a 14-day-long warning - MichaƂ Kalina.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 11:49:46 AM by Mardukm »

Offline Mardukm

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Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2010, 12:00:13 PM »
Quote from: Mardukm
The situation with the Copts is more - shall we say - complicated.
You mean, the fact that the Coptic Church doesn't accept the Vatican's baptism as valid?
For now. It certainly wasn't that way in the past, certainly not before 1973, when HH Pope Shenoute and HH Pope Paul VI of happy memory signed a common declaration that both Coptic Orthodox and Catholics share the same faith in the Seven Sacraments. In fact, I'm unaware of such a position before the 1990's. I think the common declaration between the CC and the ACOE had a lot to do with it. I hope the situation changes soon.

Quote
If you are currently a Protestant or a non-Christian, I urge you to not deprive yourself of the Holy Eucharist, and go to a Catholic Church to receive Him while you are in the Philippines.
If he was a Protestant or a non-Christian, the Vatican doesn't give him communion, holy or not.
If he was a Protestant who believed in the doctrine of the Eucharist as taught by the apostolic Churches, then he certainly can. If he was a non-Christian who believes but has not, through no fault of his own, been received into Christianity, it is a possibility. I think those in the military are a special case. He should approach the priest beforehand who will determine the matter.

Blessings

Offline ialmisry

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Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2010, 12:04:49 PM »
I've heard now that there may be a Coptic mission in the Philippines, but I don't know any details.  From what I understand, the Coptic Orthodox Church does not recognized the validity of Catholic sacraments, and would not like its members or catechumens to commune there.

Perhaps Fr. Peter or Fr. Kyrillos could confirm one or both of the above points if they have the time.

From what I understand, the Antiochian Orthodox would be the "next best thing" if there is no Oriental Orthodox Church around.  However, to commune there I think the permission of the bishop would be required.


Marduk,
I really hope you are not trying to proselytize here.  You are an apostate from the Coptic Orthodox Church and really no longer represent that Church or its people.  You really can only speak here as a Catholic.  I'd appreciate it if you refrain from suggesting to our posters that they go to a Catholic Church.  Thanks.

Btw, I mention the Antiochians only because the OP mentioned the OO. The Anticohians might be more willing to pastor someone who is not going to become EO but OO, more than the Greeks (just a perception. I might be wrong).  I don't see ROCOR being willing to be involved in such circumstances, but I might be wrong there too.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2010, 12:07:02 PM »
Quote from: Mardukm
The situation with the Copts is more - shall we say - complicated.
You mean, the fact that the Coptic Church doesn't accept the Vatican's baptism as valid?
For now. It certainly wasn't that way in the past, certainly not before 1973, when HH Pope Shenoute and HH Pope Paul VI of happy memory signed a common declaration that both Coptic Orthodox and Catholics share the same faith in the Seven Sacraments. In fact, I'm unaware of such a position before the 1990's. I think the common declaration between the CC and the ACOE had a lot to do with it. I hope the situation changes soon.

I'm quite aware of the situation being that way in the 80's, the 70's, the 60's....

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2010, 01:02:25 PM »
Marduk,
I really hope you are not trying to proselytize here.  You are an apostate from the Coptic Orthodox Church and really no longer represent that Church or its people.  You really can only speak here as a Catholic.  I'd appreciate it if you refrain from suggesting to our posters that they go to a Catholic Church.  Thanks.
[/color]
I don't know where the "proselytism" comment came from. The OP clearly stated he wanted to join the Oriental Orthodox communion, and I was only concerned that he should not deprive himself of the Body and Blood of Christ.  Your legalism is strange to behold.

And you don't know what you are talking about. I am not an apostate. An apostate is one who has renounced his belief in Christ. I am well aware of your antagonism towards me ever since I once stated that the IC was a theologoumenon in the Armenian Church because you were ignorant of what the term "theologoumenon" meant.  And I can represent my Coptic Tradition well enough, thank you, without your judgmental antagonism, at the very least in those things which we share with the Catholic Church, which is a lot.

The Armenians share far more. Like a rejection of the IC as an acceptable "theologoumenon," a term neither Copts, nor Armenians use.

I'm not sure you represent the tradition of the Copts in submission to the Vatican, with you byzantinisms (like theologoumen) and latnizations (like the IC), all that well, let alone the Orthodox Coptic Tradition, which the OP was/is seeking.

An apostate is anyone who forsakes his religion.  You were baptized in the Coptic Orthodox Church-so you tell us-and you have forsaken it-you call it "translation," but you lost a lot in the translation.

The Orthodox, OO and EO, do not share the Vatican's kumbaya eucharist theology, so from the OO point of view, certainly the EO point of view, he wouldn't be deprived of anything, since he isn't yet a member of Chrit's Body His Church.

And the Orthodox Church is the Catholic Church. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2010, 01:22:04 PM »
Just a few points to clarify things a bit:

1.  When a moderator or admin (recognizable for the five blue, green, or gold stars and the title "Moderator" or "Administrator" in his/her profile) uses bold green font as I do now, the words typed are to be understood as moderatorial instructions/warnings and are not to be questioned or disputed in public--use the private messaging system to log your complaints, instead.

2.  Mardukm has violated this rule and been disciplined for it. Please don't encourage him in his breach of protocol by engaging his criticism of a moderator's actions. Leave him alone.

3.  This thread is about jerold's search for Orthodox churches in the Philippines, not about Mardukm's ill-founded advice that the OP receive Communion from one of the Roman/Eastern Catholic churches in that country. Let's get back on topic, please.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 01:24:09 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Should OO's commune in the Catholic Church?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2010, 03:01:19 PM »
This thread was split off from another thread about finding an Oriental Orthodox Church in the Philippines:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,32369.0.html

Salpy