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Author Topic: Michigan mosque to broadcast call to prayer via loudspeaker  (Read 3278 times) Average Rating: 0
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TomS
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« on: April 21, 2004, 11:34:33 AM »

ATHAN or AZAN
The Call to Prayer

http://www.balaams-ass.com/alhaj/calltoprayer.htm

-- Allah is Great, Allah is Great
-- I bear witness that there is no divinty but Allah
-- I bear witness that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger
-- I bear witness that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger
-- Hasten to the prayer, Hasten to the prayer
-- Hasten to real success, Hasten to real success,
-- Allah is Great, Allah is Great
-- There is no divinity but Allah


HAMTRAMCK, Mich. (AP) — Long known for pirogi and polka, this bustling city is now debating whether to add an amplified Arabic chant to the local sights and sounds.

In a sign of the deep changes in this once predominantly Polish town, the City Council is expected Tuesday to pass a noise ordinance amendment that would permit mosques to issue the traditional Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers. But some longtime residents are resisting what they consider an affront to non-Muslims.

(UPDATE -- In a 5-0 vote, the City Council gave its preliminary approval to the Bangladeshi al-Islah mosque to carry the Arabic call to prayer five times a day. The mosque compromised by agreeing not to air the call before 6 a.m. or after 10 p.m. )

Hamtramck, a city of 23,000 completely surrounded by Detroit, has an old-fashioned, small-town feel, with mom-and-pop stores and American flags adorning many of the tightly packed houses. Polish groceries and restaurants abound, and if you stop someone to ask for directions, there is a good chance that person speaks only Polish.

But in recent years, the city has become much more diverse. Stores selling saris and halal meat have opened, and signs in Bengali, Arabic and Bosnian compete with signs in Polish and English. Only 23% of the city's residents specified Polish ancestry in the 2000 Census. The town also has a sizable black population, 15%.

The relationship between old Hamtramck and new Hamtramck has not been without friction. On Election Day in 1999, members of a residents group questioned would-be voters of Middle Eastern or Asian appearance on their eligibility to vote. In response to complaints of discrimination, the Justice Department sent monitors during local elections in 2001.

Now the request by the Bangladeshi Al-Islah Islamic Center for permission to air the Islamic call to prayer via loudspeakers five times a day has again revealed tensions.

City Council President Karen Majewski said she expects the council to unanimously approve the amendment allowing the call to prayer, which was traditionally sung from a minaret but today is generally recorded, despite some protests at a hearing last week.

Joanne Golen, a lifelong resident of Hamtramck, said she finds the content of the Muslim call to prayer offensive.

"It says Allah is the one and only God. I am Christian. My God is Jesus Christ. That is my only objection: that I have to listen to a God other than the one I believe in praised five times a day," said Golen, 68.

But Masud Khan, secretary of the Al-Islah mosque, said the purpose of the call, which lasts less than two minutes, is not to proselytize. "We are not inviting" non-Muslims, he said. "We are calling our Muslim people, reminding them they are obligated to come to pray."

Hamtramck's Bosnian and Yemeni communities each have their own mosques, but neither has raised the issue of the call to prayer. Many Hamtramck Muslims said the call to prayer is equivalent to church bells — and Hamtramck has several churches that ring bells.

Opponents take issue with that comparison. They say that church bells today are used to mark the time of day and have no religious significance. If the bells are the issue, then turn them off, they say.

The call to prayer can be heard elsewhere in metropolitan Detroit. The city of Dearborn, home to one of the largest Arab-American communities, has allowed the call under its general noise ordinance, without a specific amendment.

Hamtramck's amended ordinance would prohibit the call before 6 a.m. or after 10 p.m. That would not always fit in with the Islamic prayer schedule, but it is a compromise the mosque says it is willing to make.


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Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.  
 
 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2004, 11:46:35 AM by Tom+ú » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2004, 01:44:23 PM »

Uh oh, kids!  Watch out now!  Next thing you know, we'll be paying the jizya.  A look at what we are dealing with here:

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." at-Taubah 9:29

"The sword is the key of heaven and hell; a drop of blood shed in the cause of Allah, a night spent in arms, is of more avail than two months of fasting or prayer: whosoever falls in battle, his sins are forgiven, and at the day of judgment his limbs shall be supplied by the wings of angels and cherubim." - Muhammad

"When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful." Sura 9:5
at-Taubah 9:5

Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and God will punish, (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame. Surah 9:14 at-Taubah 9:14

I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God. Surah 8:12-17 al-Anfal 8:12-17

Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship will become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers. Sura 5:51
al-Ma’idah 5:51

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate. Sura 9:73 at-Taubah 9:73

Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His apostle have forbidden and do not embrace the true faith until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. Sura 9:29 at-Taubah 9:29

Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Sura 48:29 Al-Fath 48:29

Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter, fight for the cause of Allah; whether they die or conquer, We shall richly reward them. Sura 4:74 an-Nisa’ 4:74

Fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressors. Kill them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. But do not fight them within the precincts of the Holy Mosque unless they attack you there; Sura 2:190-1 al-Baqarah 2:190-191

Believers, why is it that when it is said to you "March in the cause of Allah" you linger slothfully in the land? Are you content with that life in preference to the life to come? Few indeed are the blessings of this life, compared to those of the life to come. Sura 9:38 at-Taubah 9:38

Whether unarmed or well equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your persons. Sura 9:41 at-Taubah 9:41

Ye (Muslims) are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind... Surah 3:110 Al-Imran 3:110

If any one desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him. Surah 3:85
Al-Imran 3:85

And fight them on, until there is no more tumult (seduction) or oppression, and there prevail justice, and faith in God (and the religion becomes Islam). Surah 2:193 al-Baqarah 2:193

And if you are slain, or die in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass." Surah 3:157 Al-Imran 3:157

Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims." Bukhari, volume 9, #17

Narrated Ali, "Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's messenger, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky, then ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you, (not a Hadith), then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's messenger saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will leave the faith) and will go out from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection. Bukhari volume 9, #64

I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).

Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah." Hadith vol. 4:196

Mohammed also said, "Know that paradise is under the shades of the swords." Hadith vol 4:73

Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Hadith vol. 9:57

Mohammed said: "No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel). " Hadith vol. 9:50

Mohammed said to the Jews "The earth belongs to Allah and His apostle, and I want to expel you from this land (the Arabian Peninsula), so, if anyone owns property, he is permitted to sell it. " Hadith vol. 4:392

Mohammed's last words were: "Turn the pagans (non-Muslims) out of the Arabian Peninsula." Hadith vol. 5:716

Mohammed once was asked: what is the best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and His Apostle? His answer was : "To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause" Al Bukhari vol. 1:25

Mohammed was quoted as saying : "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah" Al Bukhari vol. 4:196

Mohammed also said, "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed)." Al Bukhari vol. 1:35.

The Orthodox, unlike the Westerners, know well the weight of the Muslim yoke.

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« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2004, 02:55:34 PM »

Quote
The Orthodox, unlike the Westerners, know well the weight of the Muslim yoke

Indeed we do, or at least we "old country" based ones certainly do. Maybe the churches in the Michigan town should peel their church bells at "the hours" assuming Protestant churches have bells (I wouldn't know). In Pittsburgh there is a local ordinance against ringing church bells (a crime in itself with so many beautiful and historic churches); I wonder what will happen if/when the moslems try this in the 'Burgh?

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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2004, 04:48:24 PM »

If you substituted the word "Allah" in the first post for "Jesus", I can gaurantee you that would never be allowed anywhere in the US, especially with the advent of political correctness bent on silencing anything that is christian. If a christian church were to attempt this, I'm sure you would have the civil rights racketeers such as the ACLU all over this.
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2004, 04:50:50 PM »

If you substituted the word "Allah" in the first post for "Jesus", I can gaurantee you that would never be allowed anywhere in the US, especially with the advent of political correctness bent on silencing anything that is christian. If a christian church were to attempt this, I'm sure you would have the civil rights racketeers such as the ACLU all over this.  

Amen!
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2004, 02:36:54 PM »

Interesting.......I only live about 20 minutes away from that city.  I know there is a large Arabic Muslim population in Detroit and outside of detroit.  

 As far as I know its the largest outside the middle east. What bothers me is that if I remember correctly.....the owner of the Domino's pizza chain wanted to build a Huge cross that could be seen from miles away (I believe it was in Ann Arbor).  

People complained about that saying it was against the constitution or what ever argument they use...The ACLU became involved and I am not sure if the Cross was going to be built.....I haven't read up on the subject again.  


I just find this type of thing intrusive......I wouldn't allow it at all, if they want to preach allah let them do it privately......if they are two stupid to remember when they have to pray then get the members of your mosque a pager and page them everytime its time for prayer.



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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2004, 03:09:31 PM »

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, dosnt sound very peaceful and tolerant to me.  Hey, but thats just me.  

IMHO, does this not make the Muslims out to be not so bright since they have to be reminded 5 times on a daily basis when to pray?

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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2004, 10:26:42 PM »

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, dosnt sound very peaceful and tolerant to me.  Hey, but thats just me.  

That's why this does not hold up. In America people HAVE Clocks. This tradition is a holdeover from a time when people did not have clocks. It was needed thehn, not now!
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2004, 01:20:31 AM »

I am sure none of you will agree with me, but I really don't see the problem here.

This is America, this is a free country. One that isn't contolled by Christian fundamentals and principles. One that gaurantees all Americans the right to worship God in the way they see fit.

We are a diverse nation and we need to get over our phobia of things that are different and/or things that we don't agree with. This isn't the old country, this is America. A nation full of a breadth of Religions, cultures, political views, etc. Love it or leave it, pretty simple. I think people should respect the great diversty we have instead of complaining about it, and trying to change it.

Muslims don't believe in bells, and this is their own form of bells, a way to call the faithful to God. I understand some may feel the words of the call to prayer, are offensive, but since it is in traditional arabic, I doubt they would understand it. But that isn't the point. The point is why should Muslims, or Jews, or Christians, or anybody be denied the right to worship God in the way they see fit, considering our constitutional and human rights?

I'm sorry but just because people don't like the Islamic call to prayer, isn't a reason to deny Muslims the right to call their faithful to prayer. No one is being hurt, if anything, people are being enriched by coming to the understanding that not every one thinks just like them.
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2004, 03:16:09 PM »

I personally wouldn't mind this as much if there wasn't the double standard against Christianity.  In America today, it seems that every faith is alright, just so long as it doesn't involve an incarnate God, a Trinity, a Cross, and a Resurrection.
That's what gets my hackles up, not the fact that they want to have a call to prayer.  I have to agree with Nacho: If the name 'Jesus' or 'Christ' was substituted in every time that 'Allah' was used in that call, the American Completely Lunatic Union (ACLU) would be up in arms saying that it's intolerant, even if the call was in Greek, Latin, Slavonic, or Arabic.
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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2004, 12:49:13 AM »

I agree...there does seem to be some double standard, which I totally disagree with.
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2004, 02:59:18 AM »

have any one of you ever visited a muslem country ?
have any one of you ever heard the prayers 5 times a day in a city with 17,000 Mosque HuhHuhHuh?
Does any one of you wake up every day at 4:30 AM because he lives beside a Mosque ?
Ok, you d'better get your ear plugs if you decided to visit Cairo.

+º-ü+¦-â-ä++-é +æ+++¦-â-ä+¦
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2004, 03:09:48 AM »

I've never been in a Muslim country but a very close friend of mine taught in Cairo for a few years. The call to prayer interested her and caught her attention at first, but after a month or so she was ready to leave.

I think when we have 17,000 mosques in a Detroit suburb all sounding ALLAHU AKBAR 5 times a day, we have a serious problem on our hands.
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2004, 03:18:59 AM »

I got a funny comment from a romanian friend, she was on a visit to Cairo last year. she sent me this: " I arrived at noon and I heard the Prayers coming from all arround the hotel where I was staying and i thought they where hunting a group of elephants"
I hope you won't have this one day in USA under the name of "FREEDOM"

in IC XC
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2004, 10:26:55 AM »

I am sure none of you will agree with me, but I really don't see the problem here.

If they want to ring bells, that is fine -- but they are using words that non-believers can't simply turn off, or walk away from:

-- Allah is Great, Allah is Great
-- I bear witness that there is no divinty but Allah
-- I bear witness that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger
-- I bear witness that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger
-- Hasten to the prayer, Hasten to the prayer
-- Hasten to real success, Hasten to real success,
-- Allah is Great, Allah is Great
-- There is no divinity but Allah

Would this be accepted if a the name of Jesus was used and a Christian church wanted to do this?

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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2004, 01:05:51 PM »

If they want to ring bells, that is fine -- but they are using words that non-believers can't simply turn off, or walk away from:

-- Allah is Great, Allah is Great
-- I bear witness that there is no divinty but Allah
-- I bear witness that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger
-- I bear witness that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger
-- Hasten to the prayer, Hasten to the prayer
-- Hasten to real success, Hasten to real success,
-- Allah is Great, Allah is Great
-- There is no divinity but Allah

Would this be accepted if a the name of Jesus was used and a Christian church wanted to do this?
Seeing as most people don't understand Arabic (which AFAIK is the required language for these prayers), I don't see this as a problem.   That is assuming that there are no similar laws or ordinances against the ringing of Church bells.  One interesting custom of bell ringing in the west is a prayer regimen known as the Angelus, in which the bells are rung in the morning, mid-day and evening, and the people would say a quick prayer.  In Hungary, under Turkish occupation, the bells would drown out the Muslim call to prayer, and it was difficult for the Turkish authorities to know who was praying the Moslem prayers versus Christian prayers, as the Christians prayed in a prostrating position as well.  A revival of this custom by churches in Hamtramck, Michigan would be a peaceful manner in which to counter the Muslim call to prayer.
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