Author Topic: SCOOCH website  (Read 4234 times)

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Offline deusveritasest

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SCOOCH website
« on: December 16, 2010, 11:23:58 PM »
SCOOCH finally has a website!!  :)

http://www.scooch.org/

Offline Salpy

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2010, 11:27:15 PM »
Whoa!  We've made the BIG TIME!

This really does make me happy.   :)

Offline minasoliman

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2010, 12:53:41 AM »
Wow...this is a start, incomplete, but a good start nonetheless.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 02:02:41 AM »
What's with the several crosses? Do they symbolize differenct OO local churches?
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2010, 03:37:04 AM »
What's with the several crosses? Do they symbolize differenct OO local churches?

Looks like it. The first one (on the left) is Armenian, then Coptic, Ethiopian and then I'm not sure about the two on the right, Eastern Orthodox also use crosses like those.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 04:00:27 AM »
Yeah, the second from right is an EO Cross, and that has me greatly confused...

Cool though, grats to our OO brethren.

Offline ag_vn

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2010, 04:25:38 AM »
Many years!

Do the Indian Orthodox Church/Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church have Dioceses in America? I don't find them listed in the member Churches.

And also which Armenian jurisdiction is a member - the one of the Catholicosate of Etchmiadzin or the one of the Catholicosate of Cilicia, or both?

Offline jobin219

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2010, 11:16:21 PM »
Many years!

Do the Indian Orthodox Church/Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church have Dioceses in America? I don't find them listed in the member Churches.

And also which Armenian jurisdiction is a member - the one of the Catholicosate of Etchmiadzin or the one of the Catholicosate of Cilicia, or both?

             
Northeast American Diocese of the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church .
neamericandiocese.org
1-718-470-9844 

Diocese of South-West America,
http://www.ds-wa.org/
1-281.403.0670   
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2010, 11:17:56 PM »
That's an unfortunate acronym.
Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Offline geovar

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2010, 09:17:28 AM »
Wonderful to see .

It truely has been something that has led me tears on my own to see how none of  my Bishops in North America from the Indian Orthodox Church has  taken any initiative to be consistently active in this wonderful area that need so much attention.

Now we have two dioceses and I had hoped that atleast some of the priests and/or laity atleast paticipate. But then again, I assume this too has not happened because God does not will it fo now and  I have been negligent in praying for it. Please pray for this ministry to truely grow and strengten us to see that beyond our Language,  our Cultures , on who our Chief sheperd is , our expression of worship ,our tones is that we are members of One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and we share the same  Faith which is to carry us through out every experience of our lives with His mercy in North America.

George Varghese
Fort McMurray,AB

Offline geovar

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2010, 09:28:00 AM »
Oops One thing more to add -

Our faith only is for us to live out in North America but the strengthen other in our Lands from where we came like India, Armenia,Syria etc. for His glory.

I had to add this because for the last 10 years living here in Canada, this is a trait I have noticed that we get so caught up in establishing here and not doing enough in encouraging others to live out the faith in India . In the fist century, when the Christians were persecuted , our Lord had to say to St. Paul I am being persecuted , when the Church in one area lacked food to feed themselves, the Apostles themselves took the task to collect and feed.
In our own times, it is not food that comes from earth  but food and fruit of Faith that we Orthodox Christians are starving.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2010, 07:05:42 PM »
Yeah, the second from right is an EO Cross, and that has me greatly confused...

Me too. I don't really know what to say about it besides my pessimistic suspicion that it is more typical misguided OO ecumenism.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2010, 07:16:01 PM »
Do the Indian Orthodox Church/Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church

The Methrani faction does have two (just recently they divided their one diocese in two for reasons of growth) dioceses, the Diocese of North and East America (http://www.neamericandiocese.org/), and the Diocese of South and West America (http://www.ds-wa.org/). However, they are not recognized to be part of the canonical Oriental Orthodox Communion, and thus they are excluded from representation in SCOOCH. Only the Patriarchal faction (http://www.malankara.com/malankara/home/home.aspx) is represented.

and the Eritrean Orthodox Church have Dioceses in America?

The Eritreans do indeed have a Diocese of North America (http://tewahdo.org/index.php), however I have heard that, for some reason (perhaps their recognition of Abune Antonios as the legitimate Patriarch rather than Abune Dioskoros, the position the Coptic church also takes, led them to an agreement with the Coptic church), their Bishop is actually part of the Holy Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church. Perhaps, as such, they are not listed independently of the Coptic church.

And also which Armenian jurisdiction is a member - the one of the Catholicosate of Etchmiadzin or the one of the Catholicosate of Cilicia, or both?

I know at least that the Dioceses of the Catholicosate of Etchmiadzin are represented. The sidebar on the right links to the Eastern American Etchmiadzin Diocese. I don't know about Cilicia.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2010, 07:16:41 PM »
That's an unfortunate acronym.

LOL.  ;D

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2010, 07:17:48 PM »
Wonderful to see .

It truely has been something that has led me tears on my own to see how none of  my Bishops in North America from the Indian Orthodox Church has  taken any initiative to be consistently active in this wonderful area that need so much attention.

Now we have two dioceses and I had hoped that atleast some of the priests and/or laity atleast paticipate. But then again, I assume this too has not happened because God does not will it fo now and  I have been negligent in praying for it. Please pray for this ministry to truely grow and strengten us to see that beyond our Language,  our Cultures , on who our Chief sheperd is , our expression of worship ,our tones is that we are members of One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and we share the same  Faith which is to carry us through out every experience of our lives with His mercy in North America.

George Varghese
Fort McMurray,AB

Actually, I don't think that you would be allowed representation in SCOOCH even if you asked it.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2010, 07:44:45 PM »
The Methrani faction does have two (just recently they divided their one diocese in two for reasons of growth) dioceses, the Diocese of North and East America (http://www.neamericandiocese.org/), and the Diocese of South and West America (http://www.ds-wa.org/). However, they are not recognized to be part of the canonical Oriental Orthodox Communion, and thus they are excluded from representation in SCOOCH. Only the Patriarchal faction (http://www.malankara.com/malankara/home/home.aspx) is represented.

Just for accuracy's sake, I don't know if HG Bishop David, who's only a general bishop, not a diocesan bishop, changed his stance on the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church or not, but I understand that the Southern Coptic Diocese and the Coptic Diocese of California and Hawaii recognize the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church as canonically Orthodox even though they are not represented in SCOOCH.

The Armenian Churches I believe have also maintained communion with them.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2010, 08:05:22 PM »
Just for accuracy's sake, I don't know if HG Bishop David, who's only a general bishop, not a diocesan bishop, changed his stance on the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church or not, but I understand that the Southern Coptic Diocese and the Coptic Diocese of California and Hawaii recognize the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church as canonically Orthodox even though they are not represented in SCOOCH.

The Armenian Churches I believe have also maintained communion with them.

Last time I heard HG Bishop David recognized the position of the SOC.

So long as he and the Syriac Bishops do not recognize the Methrani faction, they will not be in SCOOCH.

And I must say, I think it's very wrong for these other jurisdictions to circumvent the Syriac Orthodox Synod in a matter relating to jurisdictions that were once their own church.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2010, 08:46:58 PM »
Just for accuracy's sake, I don't know if HG Bishop David, who's only a general bishop, not a diocesan bishop, changed his stance on the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church or not, but I understand that the Southern Coptic Diocese and the Coptic Diocese of California and Hawaii recognize the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church as canonically Orthodox even though they are not represented in SCOOCH.

The Armenian Churches I believe have also maintained communion with them.

Last time I heard HG Bishop David recognized the position of the SOC.

So long as he and the Syriac Bishops do not recognize the Methrani faction, they will not be in SCOOCH.

And I must say, I think it's very wrong for these other jurisdictions to circumvent the Syriac Orthodox Synod in a matter relating to jurisdictions that were once their own church.

Let's not speculate who's wrong and who's right.  I'm only giving you what is practiced in the Coptic and Armenian churches because things like "uncanonical" can be thrown around and misunderstood if one doesn't understand the full picture.  This is a very emotional topic for our Indian Orthodox brothers and sisters here, and we don't want to open another can of worms.  There's plenty of threads in the past where this has been discussed.

Yes, HG Bishop David have expressed this in the past, but I hear of Coptic priests within the Archdiocese that practice differently.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 08:48:56 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2010, 09:39:11 PM »
Just for accuracy's sake, I don't know if HG Bishop David, who's only a general bishop, not a diocesan bishop, changed his stance on the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church or not, but I understand that the Southern Coptic Diocese and the Coptic Diocese of California and Hawaii recognize the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church as canonically Orthodox even though they are not represented in SCOOCH.

The Armenian Churches I believe have also maintained communion with them.

Last time I heard HG Bishop David recognized the position of the SOC.

So long as he and the Syriac Bishops do not recognize the Methrani faction, they will not be in SCOOCH.

And I must say, I think it's very wrong for these other jurisdictions to circumvent the Syriac Orthodox Synod in a matter relating to jurisdictions that were once their own church.

Let's not speculate who's wrong and who's right.  I'm only giving you what is practiced in the Coptic and Armenian churches because things like "uncanonical" can be thrown around and misunderstood if one doesn't understand the full picture.  This is a very emotional topic for our Indian Orthodox brothers and sisters here, and we don't want to open another can of worms.  There's plenty of threads in the past where this has been discussed.

Yes, HG Bishop David have expressed this in the past, but I hear of Coptic priests within the Archdiocese that practice differently.

Mina, who is right and wrong in the matter of the legitimacy of the excommunication is not my concern. It is rather how it is correct to deal with such excommunications regardless of whether they are right or wrong. If the Patriarch was correct in excommunicating them as schismatics then the excommunication should be recognized. If the Patriarch was wrong in excommunicating them, it should be officially and synodically challenged, not just simply ignored. It is that ignoring rather than challenging which I am judging wrong.

Offline Salpy

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2010, 10:46:27 PM »
Forgive me, but you seem to be contradicting yourself here.

Initially, you seem to say it is not for the OO Churches to determine if the excommunication was right or wrong:

Mina, who is right and wrong in the matter of the legitimacy of the excommunication is not my concern. It is rather how it is correct to deal with such excommunications regardless of whether they are right or wrong.

But then you say it is for us to determine if the Patriarch was right or wrong in his excommunication of those in schism:

Quote
If the Patriarch was correct in excommunicating them as schismatics then the excommunication should be recognized. If the Patriarch was wrong in excommunicating them, it should be officially and synodically challenged, not just simply ignored. It is that ignoring rather than challenging which I am judging wrong.

Which is it?


The fact is, neither the Indian nor the Syriac patriarchs have put the other OO Churches in a position where we have to judge the situation and take sides like that.  This is their business. All we can and should do in the meantime is pray for an end to this horrible schism.  To take sides on the excommunication, and to bar one of the sides from communion in the other OO Churches, would be very damaging to any efforts at reconciliation.  So far, neither of the parties to the schism have told the other OO Churches that we must choose which one to be in communion with. 

The Armenian Church maintains good relations with both sides, and that is the wisest approach.  A while back there was a rumor that HH Aram might negotiate a reconciliation between the two parties, just as he did with the Copts and Ethiopians.  I don't know if there is any truth to the rumor, but as long as we don't take sides such a thing is possible.  Taking sides would not be conducive toward that sort of dialogue, or any dialogue for that matter.   

This is really the concern of our Syriac Orthodox and Indian Orthodox brothers.  It's not for us to take sides, or even really opine.  Let's just pray for reconciliation.
 

Offline Salpy

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2010, 10:56:43 PM »
The Council of Oriental Orthodox Churches seems to have a broader membership:

http://www.orientalcounciluk.org/

I don't know why COOC (talk about an unfortunate acronym  ;D ) is able to do this, while SCOOCH is more limited.  It could be the church politics in the UK play out differently than they do here.  Maybe they are just more laid back over there.   :)  Whatever it is, I'm hoping that SCOOCH can follow their lead.  In addition to being more inclusive, they also seem to be more active. 

Offline minasoliman

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2010, 01:43:40 AM »
Just for accuracy's sake, I don't know if HG Bishop David, who's only a general bishop, not a diocesan bishop, changed his stance on the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church or not, but I understand that the Southern Coptic Diocese and the Coptic Diocese of California and Hawaii recognize the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church as canonically Orthodox even though they are not represented in SCOOCH.

The Armenian Churches I believe have also maintained communion with them.

Last time I heard HG Bishop David recognized the position of the SOC.

So long as he and the Syriac Bishops do not recognize the Methrani faction, they will not be in SCOOCH.

And I must say, I think it's very wrong for these other jurisdictions to circumvent the Syriac Orthodox Synod in a matter relating to jurisdictions that were once their own church.

Let's not speculate who's wrong and who's right.  I'm only giving you what is practiced in the Coptic and Armenian churches because things like "uncanonical" can be thrown around and misunderstood if one doesn't understand the full picture.  This is a very emotional topic for our Indian Orthodox brothers and sisters here, and we don't want to open another can of worms.  There's plenty of threads in the past where this has been discussed.

Yes, HG Bishop David have expressed this in the past, but I hear of Coptic priests within the Archdiocese that practice differently.

Mina, who is right and wrong in the matter of the legitimacy of the excommunication is not my concern. It is rather how it is correct to deal with such excommunications regardless of whether they are right or wrong. If the Patriarch was correct in excommunicating them as schismatics then the excommunication should be recognized. If the Patriarch was wrong in excommunicating them, it should be officially and synodically challenged, not just simply ignored. It is that ignoring rather than challenging which I am judging wrong.

We have to be patient.  To take synodal action might cause more schism, and we have to be careful in making such official moves (not to mention it's very hard to get Oriental patriarchs together in some sort of synodical format; it took Emperor Haille Sellassie in 1965 to do that).  We simply express our love to both factions by our actions of intercommunion, and we have not been pressured to sway one way or the other.  Only HG Bishop David seems to take an opinion, maybe because he asked an opinion from the Syrian bishops rather than doing the research on his own.  If anything, the Coptic Church is riddled with other problems of its own that it needs to take care of.  God bless the Armenian Catholicos for his fighting hard to squeeze time for the patriarchs together to bring forth peace.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 01:45:04 AM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline geovar

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2010, 10:57:58 AM »
My only intention was to point out the joy in the opportunity to work together to encouragement to live out our lives as Orthodox Christians.

I didnot know that till deusveristasest posted  that Scooch proclaim before the world  a different version than this Oriental Orthodox position ( 6 communities who share communion in every way - Ethiopian, Eritrean, Syrian, Armenian and Coptic and Indian).

To say do nothing  but just pray when the evil one spread scandal shows great courage . May He strengthen us to live the true calling our faith and courage to  bear with humility that Truth Triumphs  knowing that Word of God Himself whose feast we celebrate today lived it by example

Offline geovar

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2010, 11:07:12 AM »
 Opps I failed to mention

I am from the Indian Orthodox Church whose prelate is HG Paulos Catholicos of the East our Chief Sheperd and we honour too the other Chief sheperds from the other Oriental Orthodox community  Pope Shenouda , HG Patriach Ignatius etc. equally. Also I remember specially HG Ignatius of Syrian church in prayer because the Indian Church was strengthened by emissaries from that community in 16th Century when the Church faced persecutions  from Roman catholicism and we adapted their liturgical forms.

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2010, 01:13:56 PM »
Deusveritasest you are rather obsessed with legalism. This has never been the Orthodox way. The Indian Orthodox are an entire and ancient community, it is hardly as if one bishop somewhere has schismed.

The COOC is to be commended for having such a generous spirit. The fact that Syrians and Indians are members and concelebrate shows that the hardline and exclusivist approach is not necessary. The fact also that my own Coptic Metropolitan visited both factions this year at the express insistence of both factions, shows that there is always hope while there is generosity and open heartedness.

Here in the UK we all of us OO have the warmest relations with Syrians and Indians.

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Offline dhinuus

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2010, 02:28:56 PM »
Opps I failed to mention

I am from the Indian Orthodox Church whose prelate is HG Paulos Catholicos of the East our Chief Sheperd and we honour too the other Chief sheperds from the other Oriental Orthodox community  Pope Shenouda , HG Patriach Ignatius etc. equally. Also I remember specially HG Ignatius of Syrian church in prayer because the Indian Church was strengthened by emissaries from that community in 16th Century when the Church faced persecutions  from Roman catholicism and we adapted their liturgical forms.
Dear George,
Is this your personal position or the official poistion of the Indian Orthodox Church. The reason I ask is because, I have heard the Indian Orthodox leadership including Bishops saying that currently there is no Patriarch of Antioch that the Indian Ortodox Church recognizes. Does the Indian Orthodox Church accept H.H Zakka I as the Patriarch of Antioch ?
Mathew G M
NULL

Offline geovar

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Re: SCOOCH website
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2010, 11:13:21 AM »
Matthew Sir:

It is the official position of the Orthodox Church in India

http://mosc.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=122&Itemid=150

Individuals may use the legality on  some statement in constitution of the Indian Church to state otherwise which is not my forte and some Bishop or leaders could be a part. But that again is wrong and am not going to say they are perfect and right or going to judge.

Personallly I think it has with whom people place their trust - in God or the legal mavericks. You have known me for almost 10 years in these forums and known that in all the times I have been stating this  " When I judge and accuse others and am pointing a finger at another, simultaneously two others are pointing to me from the same hand"

Blessed nativity feast and need your prayer for both our communities in India going forward in a consumering frenzy and infighting leading the children to turn to Protestantism and Secularism than the Orthodox Christian faith. Also, please pray for me and family as I will for you