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Author Topic: A VERY Ecumenical Patriarch  (Read 13130 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ben
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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2004, 07:19:13 PM »

Well any Eastern Catholic who studied Catholic dogma and doctrine and the history of their Churches, will see that they are under Rome, just as Roman Catholics are.

I am honestly sick of this "In Communion with Rome" or  "Orthodox in union with Rome" crap. Eastern Catholics are in total submission to the Roman Pontiff, and under the pain of excommunication they must accept any dogma or rule that the Roman Pontiff defines to be held by the whole Church.
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« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2004, 07:46:05 PM »

Ben,

I have a problem with your "crap" remark, I'm in the process of a rite change and your remark is not appreciated.I feel that when it becomes a yoke and Rome interferes many will return to the big "O".

Orthodoc I understand, he is very zealous in faith and states his feelings period, which I respect. But with the ladies maybe a different approach is required, but that is his business.

james
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« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2004, 07:52:32 PM »

I am sorry James but "Orthodox in union with Rome" is just plain crap. I am sorry I can't articulate myself better, but it just seems like the best word to use! I don't mean to offend you, but the fact remains that Eastern Catholics are totally subject to the Roman Pontiff, just as Roman Catholics are.
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« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2004, 08:11:43 PM »

Subjectivity to Rome is open to one's opinion and I respect opinions when shown consideration for others.

james
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« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2004, 08:16:10 PM »

Jakub,

When the Roman Pontiff speaks ex-cathedra on matters of faith and/or morals, every single Catholic must accept what he defines and declares, that is not open to ones opinion.

Eastern Catholics, like Roman Catholics must also accept Papal Supremacy, and the fact that before a Eastern Catholic priest is consencrated to the episcopacy Rome must first give its consent. The Roman Pontiff, if he wanted to, could abolish the Eastern rites, or force all Eastern Catholic priests to remain celibate, which has happened in the past.

The Pope has complete jurisdiction over the entire Church, and the includes Eastern rites.
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« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2004, 08:16:58 PM »

The one I would most trust to give me an accurate description of eastern catholicism would be an Eastern Catholic.
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« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2004, 08:19:33 PM »

Jack...

There are plenty of Eastern Catholics who think they are actually Eastern Orthodox Christians simply in union with Rome, and that they hold the same faith that the real Eastern Orthodox Churches do. Surely such an opinion is flawed and can't be trusted.

The best source to trust in this matter, is Catholic dogma, which clearly states the Pope has supreme jurisdiction over the entire Church, east and west.
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« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2004, 08:36:51 PM »

Ben,

Don't have the time nor care to mix words regarding "under Rome" presently.

james
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« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2004, 08:48:08 PM »

Whatever floats your boat. Smiley
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« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2004, 08:59:07 PM »

Ben,

My attention is the Lakers & Pistons game, we can trade barbs and nonsense at another time.

james
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« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2004, 09:02:05 PM »

Like I said, whatever floats you boat. Smiley
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« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2004, 09:36:22 PM »

Dear Orthoman,

It is good that you are here. As an Orthodox Christian I have many friends that are Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Antiochian Orthodox etc. They are all Orthodox. Most Orthodox in a relatively decent mindset would agree that the Orthodox Church is not in communion with Rome for sincere and valid reasons. This conclusion is the result of Orthodoxy’s reliance on her patristic tradition and it’s truthful reality. This practice often results in a conflict relative to discussions with those who are in communion with the Bishop of Rome. That is because the Roman Catholic Church has a developing mindset that has lead to a departure from the Orthodox faith and the Orthodox Church has remained true to the teachings of Christ and the Fathers. When the Father’s are truthfully referred to in the context of the Orthodox faith from which their understanding and writings are born by the grace of God many of the positions articulated by those in communion with the Bishop of Rome are revealed as simply wrong or distorted. I have known some people in my life that have sought the truth recognized it and became Orthodox and one suffered for it even in death.  The idea that the theology of east and west are compatible in many ways is simply not so relative to critical spiritual understandings because these dispositions affect the former.


As such when Orthodox Patristic references are used in discussions with the Eastern Christians under Rome either no response is given or some sort of a deflection tactic is utilized. I often hear from Roman Catholics or Eastern Christians under Rome that the Orthodox do not have the unity of Peter as such look at all the ethnic or division issues etc. This is utter nonsense because the claim is made from a worldly perspective that is the result of the migration of the see of Rome into such a realm. I’m very sure that there is theological unity among all of the Orthodox Churches for we certainly don’t adjust the creed and sometimes use the filoque and sometimes not for whatever reason and understand that the Orthodox Church is the Church of Christ. As such I don’t believe that there is unity among the Eastern Christians under Rome I think there is confusion for if we ask them what their theology is we here nothing or end up scratching our heads until we are bald.  In Orthodox theology the mind is considered lower and the heart is expressed by the Orthodox fathers as the seat of the soul and divine knowledge it has always been that way. From the Latin’s we can see the results of the reliance of the mind for theological development. It is known that there is a direct correlation between liturgical consistent practices and theological consistency expressed in the fullness of the truth and established in the Orthodox Church, which the Lord God Almighty’s right hand has planted. In the correct teachings of the Orthodox Church children are not denied the precious body and blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

In the developed Latin rite of today as a result of the adjusting of the original order of the sacraments by the minds of men in error, sadly children are denied the Eucharist until they have reached the age of reason of seven years old or so when they are more intelligent. However they are taught obedience to their bishop. This denial of the Body and blood of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is an established practice within the Latin rite of today. Children used to not be denied the Eucharist but the minds of men went to work and have subjected the sincere faithful to their distortions for past 900 years or so. Has Christ not been crucified for children even if they have not reached the age of reason?

 St John Chrysostom has written “The most holy Sacrament is a burning fire, so that when we leave the altar we breathe forth flames of love which make us objects of terror to hell.”



St Ephrem the Syrian has written See, Fire and Spirit in the womb that bore you! See, Fire and Spirit in the river where you were baptised! Fire and Spirit in our baptism; in the Bread and the Cup, Fire and Holy Spirit!

John 21:16
He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Matthew 19
13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

Matthew 26

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27: Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.


As Saint Clement of Alexandria has written "We learn from the Scriptures demonstrably that the heresies have gone astray, and that only in the true Church is the most accurate knowledge."

Facilitated by the presence of children surely most men or woman can move into their hearts for a moment and see that it is wrong to deny a child the body and blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ irrespective of what the minds of men in the Latin rite now subject the faithful to as well as their loved ones to. How can this practice be rationalized within the heart? It is a institutionalized violation of the hearts and minds suffered by many Latin rite parents who love their children in accordance with the commandment of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Surely these little ones are loved and cherished and HIS friends.

St Irenaeus of Lyons tells us the heretics are proved to be disciples not of the Apostles, but of their own wicked notions. To this cause also are due the various opinions that exist among them, inasmuch as each one adopts error in whatever manner it presents itself to him. But the Church throughout all the world, having its origin firm from the Apostles, perseveres in one and the same opinion with regard to God and His Son.

The Blessed Theophylact's tells us the gates of hades are those persecutors who from time to time would send Christians to hades. But the heretics, too, are gates leading to hades. The Church, then has prevailed over many persecutors and many heretics. The Church is also each one of us who has become a house of God. For if we have been established on the confession of Christ, the gates of hades, which are our sins, will not prevail against us.  

I doesn’t take a enormous amount of intelligence to come to the realization that of the 25,000 or more splinter “churches” are around today because of the reformation are the result of legitimate concerns of those who opposed the Pope and Latin's.

St Ignatius of Antioch has written: All who belong to God and Jesus Christ are with the bishop; and all who repent [of schism] and come into the unity of the Church will also belong to God, that they may be living according to Jesus Christ. Make no mistake, my brothers. If anyone follows a man who causes a schism, he 'does not inherit the Kingdom of God'. And any man who goes in for strange doctrine disasociates himself from the Passion.

It is obvious and true that the Latin’s of today have separated themselves from Orthodoxy by means of unorthodoxy which is being experienced today by many sincere and faithful members who have seen some more of the dismantling of the ancient and venerable Latin rite with acceleration before their very eyes. These faithful people have subjected themselves and their children to the understandings of those in error who when made aware of a heresy disregard or adjust that heresy for justification purposes. In more recent times they have suffered from the sexual abuse crisis and so much more even to the point of witnessing Pope John Paul II lowering his head and kissing the koran when the spirit of the koran does not confess our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. This is an outright public mocking of our crowned and martyred Christians you have suffered brutal deaths. At some defining point in time our beloved Christian brother’s of the Latin rite must move into their hearts and understand how these things can be happening.  Many of these things are merely a manifestation of the continuation of the great apostasy from Holy Orthodoxy.  


Do not be deceived as I was and as many now remain. The Eastern Christians under Rome are in truth agents of apostasy knowingly or ignorance irrespective of what word is being used to describe them.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
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« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2004, 09:41:32 PM »

The original topic was Patriarch Bartholomew's reception of two Roman Catholic French bishops on the occasion of the anniversary of the beginning of the sacking of Constantinople; a topic which has died a natural death.  

Those who want to pursue the topic of how best to characterize Byzantine Rite jurisdictions who recognize the supremacy of the Roman Pontiff may want to start a new thread.
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« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2004, 09:55:04 PM »

[The one I would most trust to give me an accurate description of eastern catholicism would be an Eastern Catholic]

Then how does one know which group of 'Eastern Catholics' being addressed.  Those who are Orthodox or those who are 'under' papal authority?

Orthodoc
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« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2004, 09:59:20 PM »



Excellent post matthew!  You will be a welcome addition here.  How about telling us a little about yourself.  Are you crade Orthodox or a convert?

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« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2004, 10:34:43 PM »

Dear Orthodoc,

I don't know how excellent the post was for that depends on the disposition of the reader. I do know that I spoke what I believe to be the truth, others may disagree and that does not mean I hate them or want to bully them. The evil one seeks to bully through ignorance and the passions that we all struggle with Orthodox or Catholic or in short Christian that embrace a theology that is conducive to fight the enemy.

I'm the son of a beloved very loving and merciful Orthodox Priest of thrice blessed memory. I spent some time questioning many things and was away from the Church trying to make a pile of money and came back the hard way with the help of some Priest's and bishops. In short around 10 years ago I thought my way into a mess and jumped into a sewer. Glory be to God for confession and Holy Communion and for all the God given mysteries given in His Holy Orthodox Church.

Nowadays I paint icons so I don't know if I can post much but will check in a bit if my first post doesn't get me banished.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
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« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2004, 04:10:20 PM »

Ben,

My attention is the Lakers & Pistons game, we can trade barbs and nonsense at another time.

james


AND THE PISTON'S WIN IT ALL!  YEEHAH!
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« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2004, 04:17:56 PM »

Yes the better team won, but I live in L.A.  and I am CELTIC fan, though the Dodgers are my NL team & the BOSOX AL.

Now we are off topic, need another thread/board for sports.........food & beverages ?

james
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« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2004, 06:58:47 PM »

I maybe posting to a long time ago part of this subject.  But it has been on my mind.  Pope John Paul II, only referred to the Eastern Catholic Church as the 2nd lung.  He said that it was the other lung of the Catholic Church.
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« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2004, 08:39:49 PM »

[ Pope John Paul II, only referred to the Eastern Catholic Church as the 2nd lung.  He said that it was the other lung of the Catholic Church. ]

But the Eastern Catholic Church is the Orthodox Church.  Always has been.

Orthodoc
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« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2004, 05:05:40 PM »

But the Eastern Catholic Church says the Pope is the Supreme Universal Pontiff.  And there are many differences, according to a Greek Orthodox Priest I know, between Orthodox Liturgies and Eastern Catholic.  Eastern Catholics, other than following the Pope, must have celebate clergy as well.  I know that there are many things that are the same, but according to Orthodox teaching (as far as I know, not being Orthodox but having an Orthodox Priest say so) Eastern Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox are 2 different religions.
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« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2004, 09:06:56 PM »

I know that there are many things that are the same, but according to Orthodox teaching (as far as I know, not being Orthodox but having an Orthodox Priest say so) Eastern Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox are 2 different religions.  

You are right. They are not Orthodox.
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« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2004, 10:04:00 PM »

 >:(Reading this thread saddens me.

Today I came across a message in this week's 'Come Receive the Light, (Christian Orthodox Radio Progamme), by Father Christopher Metropulos

Quote

No, authority in the Body of Christ is both simple and profound: The Head of the Church is Jesus Christ. The authority of the Church is the Holy Spirit, and the hallmark of authority in the Church is Service, not mastery.

Unquote

There is in Orthodoxy a tendency for some bishops to assert themselves in a papal and authoritarian way. The increasing use of titles, such as 'Archbishop of all........', being a sign of this.

In the epistles see how one church addresses another, from the church which is at Corinth, for example.

The head of The Church is Christ Jesus, and no man should in pride presume to take titles such as Supreme Universal Pontiff.

The catholic church is whereever there is an Orthodox bishop and his flock; there is everything needfull unto salvation. No matter how small the flock and how humble the bishopric!
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« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2004, 01:15:50 AM »

Very well said, Etienne!
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« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2004, 01:07:59 PM »

We Orthodox like to say that we are not an organized religion but a way of life.  Yes, its true, we are of different Faiths. And the split has gotten wider through the centuries.  So much so that it seems like we are living on diffent planets.

I also understood the Pope to mean that the Byzantine Catholics were the 2nd lung and not the Orthodox.  

JoeS   Cool




But the Eastern Catholic Church says the Pope is the Supreme Universal Pontiff.  And there are many differences, according to a Greek Orthodox Priest I know, between Orthodox Liturgies and Eastern Catholic.  Eastern Catholics, other than following the Pope, must have celebate clergy as well.  I know that there are many things that are the same, but according to Orthodox teaching (as far as I know, not being Orthodox but having an Orthodox Priest say so) Eastern Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox are 2 different religions.  
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« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2004, 07:34:14 AM »

I think it is the time to start thinking about beeing positive when it comes to ralations between the East and West,

This will never mean accepting what it is not Orthodoxy, never, but it should mean that we, on our part, accept the extended hand.

Why be militant (negative meaning), always  and not let Holy Spirit work His great deed of healing.

I say again, it does not mean becoming Latinised, but becoming more Orthodox, which is charitable Christian, willing to forgive and ready to talk.

I am all for dialogue. Now and always. Ten centuries of separation are enough, don't you agree?

God bless.

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« Reply #71 on: August 29, 2004, 04:26:30 PM »

I think it is the time to start thinking about beeing positive when it comes to ralations between the East and West,
This will never mean accepting what it is not Orthodoxy, never, but it should mean that we, on our part, accept the extended hand.
Why be militant (negative meaning), always  and not let Holy Spirit work His great deed of healing.
I say again, it does not mean becoming Latinised, but becoming more Orthodox, which is charitable Christian, willing to forgive and ready to talk.
I am all for dialogue. Now and always. Ten centuries of separation are enough, don't you agree?
God bless.

Becuase we may get tricked. That is the reason most Catholics shouldn't get into ecumenical dialogue. Do you not remember that the devil " as a roaring lion, seeketh him, whom he may devour"? We may think that it is the Holy Ghost but in reality it maybe the devil in costume. We as men and becuase of our fallen nature are extremely gullible and because the devil is cunning and works whatever way he can to deceive us and bring us into his "palace", Hell where you can burn eternally for ever and ever and ever.amen
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« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2004, 11:00:55 PM »

:Eastern Catholics, other than following the Pope, must have celebate clergy as well. :

This is false, except for a little more than a century in the U.S. This local anomaly is currently being rectified, I believe, though it's taking unconscionably long. Eastern Catholics in their "native habitat" do not have to have celibate clergy. Break out of your American ghetto--if you are Orthodox, you ought to have a broader perspective!

And Catholic Eagle, I agree that Satan is ready to trick us, but the easiest way for him to do that is to play on our pride and our desire to be better and holier than others--these are, after all, the things in us that are most like him! So I'd be cautious about assuming that anti-ecumenism is somehow "safe." The desire never to be taken in, if not tempered by grace, will lead (as C. S. Lewis's story of the Dwarfs in _The Last Battle_ shows) to damnation.

You've probably hold the joke about the Baptists (or Catholics, or any other group one happens to want to ridicule at the moment) who are in their own little room in heaven, and new arrivals are cautioned to be quiet so as not to disturb the illusion that they are the only ones there. I wonder how that kind of "heaven" would differ from hell? That is what I worry about a lot more than the fear that naive indulgence in the vice of Christian charity will lead to some kind of Satanic deception.

In Christ,

Edwin
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« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2004, 11:08:19 PM »

We may think that it is the Holy Ghost but in reality it maybe the devil in costume. We as men and becuase of our fallen nature are extremely gullible and because the devil is cunning and works whatever way he can to deceive us and bring us into his "palace"

You mean like what happened with the Schism, the "Crusades", the Inquisition, the abuse of the innocents, etc.

With all the exposure the RCC has had to Satan since breaking from the True Church, you'd think it would recognize him by now.
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« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2004, 07:08:36 PM »

You mean like what happened with the Schism, the "Crusades", the Inquisition, the abuse of the innocents, etc.

With all the exposure the RCC has had to Satan since breaking from the True Church, you'd think it would recognize him by now.


The "Orthodox" began the schism. The Crusades were started so that Christian pilgrims could have a safe route to the Holy Land and were not evil. WHat some stupid soldiers did was what they did and not the Church's fault.  The Holy Inquisition protected the CHurch from heresy. WOOOOO... It is bad for the CHurch to protect herself against heresy. Oh yeah, millions didn't die at the hand of the Holy Inquistion it was probably more like hundreds in its 500 year history.  Is standing against abortion and contraceptives "the abuse of infants"?

Some how no body remember what the Imperial State CHurch of RUssia did many times with the help of the Czar. They closed churches,killed thousands, sent priests and nuns to Siberia, and forced Greek Catholics to become schismatic.[/b][/b]
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« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2004, 11:17:56 PM »

Tom: You know your post wasn't charitable.
CatholicEagle: I understand you feel insulted, but in your response you are going to have to try to be charitable and respectful as well.  Attacking Orthodoxy back is not going to make things better.  In the future, if you or anyone else feels a post is offensive please use the report post feature.


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« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2004, 12:06:42 AM »

Dear all,

I often find myself wanting to fight back with words which is really only a way to escalate matters to no good avail. It is good to keep in mind many of the understandings of the Saints like St John Maximovitch of San Francisco & Shanghai, who in part of a letter to the youth says the following;

"More than anything, guard yourselves against conflict, forgive each other when you are insulted. Remember: he who quarrels consoles the devil; he who makes peace gladdens Christ; he who makes peace among others helps Christ and will be accepted into the Heavenly Kingdom as a Son of God (Mtt 5:9)."

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin
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« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2004, 03:32:46 AM »

Dear Catholic Eagle,
I don't think anyone here honestly believes the Church in Rome was responsible for the actions of the fourth crusade. The Pope was apalled when he learned what had happened, but that didn't stop him from taking advantage of the situation and trying to force a union (thereby rubbing salt into the wound), nor did it stop Catholic churches in Rome and Venice from being adorned with and housing countless treasures and relics that had been looted from Constantinople. For that, Rome is responsible.
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« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2004, 09:20:20 PM »

this is one of my most favorite words.
[glow=Green, 4,000][size=12]huh"?[/size]  [/glow]
Prodomos, me not knowing what you is sayings.
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« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2004, 09:43:55 PM »

[The Pope was apalled when he learned what had happened, but that didn't stop him from taking advantage of the situation and trying to force a union (thereby rubbing salt into the wound), nor did it stop Catholic churches in Rome and Venice from being adorned with and housing countless treasures and relics that had been looted from Constantinople. For that, Rome is responsible.]

Nor did it stop him from putting a Latin on the Patriarchal throne.

Orthodoc
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« Reply #80 on: September 01, 2004, 10:21:43 PM »

Lets face it Orthodoc,

Without a few Latins, Eastern Catholics, Anglicans etc here you would be bored.

We can't be wrong all the time, and you can't be right all the time.

We're all imperfect & sinners.

Guess I'll tecate to that.

james
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« Reply #81 on: September 01, 2004, 11:48:39 PM »

Quote
Guess I'll tecate to that.

LOL james i love that you've turned tecate into a verb! hahaha
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« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2004, 10:23:36 AM »

What is with you people and Tecate? Wink
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« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2004, 11:01:06 AM »

this is one of my most favorite words.
[glow=Green, 4,000][size=12]huh"?[/size]  [/glow]
Prodomos, me not knowing what you is sayings.

The Pope forbade the crusaders from sacking Orthodox places.  But they did it anyway. What Prodromos is saying is that the Pope profitted from it nevertheless--for instance St Mark's Basillica in Venice--and as Orthodoc pointed out, the Pope put a Latin on the patriarchal throne and celebrated this "reunion" with the East.

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« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2004, 01:02:49 PM »

What is with you people and Tecate? Wink

Yeah, Tecate is gross.  Drink Pacifico, Modelo (Negra is better) or Noche Buena (rather rare).
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« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2005, 07:17:35 PM »

Yeah

I dont get how he can call thouse latins, Brothers & Sisters, the sepereated breathern, the split body of Christ, the two lungs of the church, as if the church "the body of christ" can be split in two, but yet he calls the Traditionalist Orthodox,  schismatics when they just want to preserve what is Orthodox, its pretty sad.
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« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2008, 10:21:14 PM »

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Some how no body remember what the Imperial State CHurch of RUssia did many times with the help of the Czar. They closed churches,killed thousands, sent priests and nuns to Siberia, and forced Greek Catholics to become schismatic.

Huh? What are Greek Catholics doing in Russia? For the rest of that comment, all I can say is Huh?
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« Reply #87 on: November 23, 2008, 07:35:41 PM »

It saddens me to see such fighting whenever the subject of healing the Schism comes up. Bringing up the past serves nothing but Lucifer. We are supposed to forgive aren't we? I'm more interested in helping Rome drive out the orcs of modernism and heresy than beat my breast over things that happened long before I was born.
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« Reply #88 on: November 23, 2008, 08:12:29 PM »

It saddens me to see such fighting whenever the subject of healing the Schism comes up. Bringing up the past serves nothing but Lucifer. We are supposed to forgive aren't we? I'm more interested in helping Rome drive out the orcs of modernism and heresy than beat my breast over things that happened long before I was born.

The problem about the healing of scism is that neither side is willing to budge even though the Orthodox have laid down their acceptance terms and the Catholics want no part of it. Hence why we have nothing but fighting. Further, if we aren't going to learn and remember the past, we might as well just throw out the Old Testament because it occured well before any of us were born. And for that matter, the New Testament as well since it also occurred well before any of us were born. And while we're at it, Tradition (yes capital T) might as well go out the window. So now lets just throw out everything and we'll all be more happy in life.

-Nick
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« Reply #89 on: November 23, 2008, 09:29:39 PM »

Quote
The problem about the healing of scism is that neither side is willing to budge even though the Orthodox have laid down their acceptance terms and the Catholics want no part of it. Hence why we have nothing but fighting. Further, if we aren't going to learn and remember the past, we might as well just throw out the Old Testament because it occured well before any of us were born. And for that matter, the New Testament as well since it also occurred well before any of us were born. And while we're at it, Tradition (yes capital T) might as well go out the window. So now lets just throw out everything and we'll all be more happy in life.

I understand the first part, but issues about the past I would have to agree with what VirSpeluncaeOrthodoxae says. For example, the Fourth Crusade should not be a reason to keep us from uniting with Roman Catholics. That happened 800 years ago and ought to be entirely irrelevant. What truly keeps us out of communion is differing theology and views about the pope. I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but the wrongs both Roman Catholics and Orthodox have done to each other (politically) should not be a factor in unity.
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