Seamus1
Newbie
 Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church
Posts: 7
|
 |
« on: December 16, 2010, 04:28:58 PM » |
|
I'm not sure if this is the right place to be asking this, but it's a place to start.
Recently there have been several threads here (and much discussion on other websites) about the Antiochian Archdiocese, Met. Philip, and the dismissal of Frs. David Moretti and Elias Yelovich. Fr. Elias was dismissed (or is it deposed? or defrocked?) and forbidden to act as a priest in any Antiochian parish. He then went and was received, as a priest, into the Milan Synod, a non-canonical (or is it *un*-canonical) synod of Old Calendarists, and given a blessing to start a new mission.
My question is this: If a priest is in the position of Fr. Elias (dismissed/deposed/defrocked), and is apparently what might be termed "spoiled goods", for lack of a better expression, why would another jurisdiction or archdiocese be willing to accept him as a priest, apparently quite willingly and with open arms? Would that other jurisdiction/archdiocese not be opening themselves up to the same kind of abuses or behavior that Fr. Elias was accused of?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
PoorFoolNicholas
|
|
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2010, 04:41:14 PM » |
|
Because those that welcomed him with open arms are in prelest. I also assume you are talking about the priest that was confessing to a layman, correct?
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 04:42:21 PM by PoorFoolNicholas »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Seamus1
Newbie
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church
Posts: 7
|
|
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2010, 04:43:48 PM » |
|
Yes, that's him. The one with the supposed "prophet", who just happened to be the person he was confessing to but apparently not receiving absolution from.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
PoorFoolNicholas
|
|
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2010, 04:53:57 PM » |
|
Yes, that's him. The one with the supposed "prophet", who just happened to be the person he was confessing to but apparently not receiving absolution from.
Then yes, those that ordained him are in prelest: i.e. Spiritual delusion. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Seamus1
Newbie
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church
Posts: 7
|
|
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2010, 05:07:24 PM » |
|
Yes, that's him. The one with the supposed "prophet", who just happened to be the person he was confessing to but apparently not receiving absolution from.
Then yes, those that ordained him are in prelest: i.e. Spiritual delusion. I realize that it is the Milan Synod whom I should be asking, but.....would they not want to be very careful about receiving a priest with that kind of history? Would they not want to thoroughly investigate his background, the complaints lodged against him, etc., before receiving him as a priest? Or is there, do you think, an element here of the Milan Synod thumbing their noses at the Antiochians and "mainstream" Orthodoxy? |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 05:08:58 PM by Seamus1 »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Michał Kalina
proud Podlachian Belarusian parajournalistic engineer in spe
Moderator
Hypatos
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk / Diocese of Warsaw and Bielsk Podlaski
Posts: 15,424
OC.net's trickster
|
|
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2010, 05:10:22 PM » |
|
Or is there, do you think, an element here of the Milan Synod thumbing their noses at the Antiochians and "mainstream" Orthodoxy?
IMO that's the main point. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole.  Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
|
|
Seamus1
Newbie
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church
Posts: 7
|
|
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2010, 05:17:21 PM » |
|
Or is there, do you think, an element here of the Milan Synod thumbing their noses at the Antiochians and "mainstream" Orthodoxy?
IMO that's the main point. If that *is* the main point, what kind of Christian behavior is that?? Also, if a man is no longer considered by mainstream Orthodoxy to be a priest, and he's accepted as one by the likes of the Milan Synod, is he really still a priest, and deserving of the respect due him as such? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Michał Kalina
proud Podlachian Belarusian parajournalistic engineer in spe
Moderator
Hypatos
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk / Diocese of Warsaw and Bielsk Podlaski
Posts: 15,424
OC.net's trickster
|
|
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2010, 05:21:17 PM » |
|
While mentioning him on this forum - yes, she should be treated as a Priest.
Practically - as you wish. If your communion was the one that defrocked him - he is not a Priest.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole. Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
|
|
|
Alveus Lacuna
|
|
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2010, 05:30:24 PM » |
|
Yes, that's him. The one with the supposed "prophet", who just happened to be the person he was confessing to but apparently not receiving absolution from. What's wrong with a priest confessing to a layman? Confession in the Orthodox Church used to be a public affair, after all. If he was not receiving a mocked priestly absolution then there should be no issue. Also, Orthodoxy still welcomes prophecy and other spiritual gifts, so this man could be a prophet for all we know. Without more details, I don't see a problem. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Seamus1
Newbie
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church
Posts: 7
|
|
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2010, 05:35:05 PM » |
|
While mentioning him on this forum - yes, she should be treated as a Priest.
Practically - as you wish. If your communion was the one that defrocked him - he is not a Priest.
So, he can be a priest in one place, but not in another? How interesting! The term "relativism", for some reason, springs to mind. I don't say that by way of criticism of you, Michal, it just seems very curious to me. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Seamus1
Newbie
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church
Posts: 7
|
|
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2010, 05:39:18 PM » |
|
Yes, that's him. The one with the supposed "prophet", who just happened to be the person he was confessing to but apparently not receiving absolution from. What's wrong with a priest confessing to a layman? Confession in the Orthodox Church used to be a public affair, after all. If he was not receiving a mocked priestly absolution then there should be no issue. Also, Orthodoxy still welcomes prophecy and other spiritual gifts, so this man could be a prophet for all we know. Without more details, I don't see a problem. That isn't exactly the point of this thread, but since you ask.....on the face of it, nothing is wrong with a priest, or anyone, confessing to a layman. It's just that he had been directed, several times apparently, by his bishop, not to do so. As far as the "prophecy" is concerned, this has never been established or proven. To discuss this more here would, I believe, derail the thread. Maybe you could start a new one? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Michał Kalina
proud Podlachian Belarusian parajournalistic engineer in spe
Moderator
Hypatos
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk / Diocese of Warsaw and Bielsk Podlaski
Posts: 15,424
OC.net's trickster
|
|
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2010, 05:27:11 AM » |
|
So, he can be a priest in one place, but not in another? How interesting! The term "relativism", for some reason, springs to mind. I don't say that by way of criticism of you, Michal, it just seems very curious to me.
Not 'relativism' but 'politeness'. On this forum there are people from at least 5 communions which not always recognise sacraments of each other but despite this all Priests should be called with their respective titles no matter do you really believe in it. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole. Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
|
|
Margaret S.
Member
Offline
Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 162
|
|
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2010, 08:46:15 AM » |
|
Yes, that's him. The one with the supposed "prophet", who just happened to be the person he was confessing to but apparently not receiving absolution from. What's wrong with a priest confessing to a layman? When I was looking for a spiritual father or mother it was suggested to me it was alright to confess to a layman (a nun, for example) but I still had to receive absolution from a priest. I recall one parish I went to some years ago where someone was absolved without making their confession - I assume that was their situation. Regards, Margaret in Edinburgh |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
