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Author Topic: Thankfully Byzantine Rite Stories  (Read 777 times) Average Rating: 0
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SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
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« on: December 14, 2010, 08:57:43 PM »

It would be a blessing to hear stories from laity, monastics and clergy who have embraced Orthodoxy in the Byzantine expression of 99% of the Holy Orthodox Church, and who are comfortable with the "Eastern" in our Church, in the liturgy, in language and in culture.  There are so many English-language parishes and churches having either full or mixed language services and so many convert priests in mission and parish service.

I believe that the fullness of the Orthodox faith, in it's integrity is found in the Byzantine rite, which also is a commonwealth of believers - not an Eastern rite but an Apostolic rite, that has not had the break with the faith, experienced by Western Orthodox after the Great Schism. I also appreciate that some Western Orthodox believers are far more attuned culturally and spiritually to western tradition.  The separation of Western-rite believers, often in small missions, heroically worshipping in many cases in rented or borrowed halls presents much challenge, not the least being the lack of meaningful sharing with the much larger Byzantine rite.  How much easier it is to worship in a consecrated temple of God, in which the separation of the believers from the secular world is emphasised in art and architecture.

Please share your good experiences of coming home to the faith in the Byzantine rite here.  Please note this topic is not a criticism per se of the faith or commitment of anyone in the Western-rite.  It would be good to see a similar western rite theme in the western rite discussion, that might be instructive to the faithful of the Byzantine-rite and might actually promote greater sharing.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2010, 09:07:32 PM by SubdeaconDavid » Logged

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To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 10:30:46 PM »

I'm just glad I'm not in a stupid Western Rite parish will all of those ugly statues!  Wink

The CONVERT ISSUES FORUM fully accepts Western Rite Orthodox as fully Orthodox and requests that you do not post items like this in the Convert Issues Forum, feel free to address statements like  this in the  Orthodox -western christianity forum.

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« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 12:16:26 AM by Thomas » Logged
ialmisry
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2010, 11:01:28 PM »

I'm not Byzantine rite, that's what the Vatican allows for those who submit to her.  I follow the Constantinoplitan rite, though I like the Antiochean and Alexandrian: hopefully they will be restored even before reunification with the Syriacs and Copts.

Having been an Arab Lutheran, I was no longer schitzophrenic when I entered the Eastern Rite. But then, I'm Eastern.

Btw, I still admire the Russians, but especially the Carpatho-Russians. All the beauty and piety, but no pretentiousness.
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2010, 11:35:10 PM »


I'm not Byzantine rite, that's what the Vatican allows for those who submit to her.


The Episcopal Assistant for the WR in the UK and Australia divides us into WRITE and BRITE.
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SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2010, 12:15:31 AM »


I'm not Byzantine rite, that's what the Vatican allows for those who submit to her.


The Episcopal Assistant for the WR in the UK and Australia divides us into WRITE and BRITE.
I thought the tag was "Eastern-rite" in preference to Byzantine-rite, the latter being said through gritted teeth. I am happily Eastern Orthodox albeit born in  a western body.
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To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
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« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2010, 12:32:32 AM »

I absolutely love the eastern flavor of the Antiochian Church I attend. I love the chanting, the food and the people.
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SubdeaconDavid
"...the spread of the light of Orthodoxy among the peoples of all the lands where our Church exists continues as an inseparable part of our mission": Metropolitan Hilarion, First Hierarch of ROCOR
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2010, 04:13:09 PM »

For me life as a Western Christian was bound up in the Anglican Church and all that this meant - theological diversity  to the extreme, Anglo-Catholicism (bells and smells) vs. evangelical Protestantism.  It meant a mindset thoroughly infected by the Reformation, the Enlightenment and the slide of western society into essentially neo-atheistic indifference to God and at worst arrogant rejection of the Church.

For me Eastern Orthodoxy constitutes an oasis of Christian presence in an ocean of decay and atrophy.  Like Prince Vladimir, the Liturgy of the Byzantine-rite is incomparable in elevating the soul towards God, in a way that even a traditional Church of England high mass could not.  That doesn't mean I don't love English Anglican cathedral music.  It is sublime.  The Eastern liturgy takes one from the world to God.  An eastern Orthodox church is a true temple of God. 

So the Byzantine rite makes us both other-worldly and as Orthodox Christians we are in a commonwealth of believers, a community whose very purpose is to recall humanity to Jesus Christ.  St. John of Shanghai said that the Russian diaspora was the will of God for the spread of Orthodoxy.  That has been echoed in other diaspora.  It is an irony.  Russian Australians and Russian Americans converting Americans and Australians - maybe that makes us Australian or American Russians?  Seriously, while we live Orthodox life in national jurisdictions, I feel a trans-nationalism, a sense that as Orthodox Christians we are above nationality because we are a spiritual community, whether Russian or Anglo, Greek or Arab, black or white...male or female.

I know that some get this sense of Orthodoxy in the Western-rite.   For me though like Prince Vladimir who found non-Orthodox worship at best banal, it is as one person once said to me "champagne vs. beer".  There is a completeness, a richness, the knowledge that saints have persisted in Byzantine Orthodoxy into this century, and that the Apostolic Faith of Orthodoxy has remained intact, the same and despite the falling of the Western Orthodox Church - the Patriarchate of the West, the Latin Church into the Roman and subsequent heterodox bodies, Orthodoxy is the true Church of Jesus Christ.
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Visit my blog@  http://orthodoxtasmania.blogspot.com

To the Russians abroad it has been granted to shine in the whole world  the light of Orthodoxy, so that other peoples, seeing their good deeds, might glorify our Father in Heaven, and thus obtain salvation
S John of Shanghai & San Francisco
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 05:23:38 PM »

I'm not Byzantine rite, that's what the Vatican allows for those who submit to her.  I follow the Constantinoplitan rite, though I like the Antiochean and Alexandrian: hopefully they will be restored even before reunification with the Syriacs and Copts.

Having been an Arab Lutheran, I was no longer schitzophrenic when I entered the Eastern Rite. But then, I'm Eastern.

Btw, I still admire the Russians, but especially the Carpatho-Russians. All the beauty and piety, but no pretentiousness.

An Arab Lutheran?  Do they really exist?
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-- Gustave Flaubert
ialmisry
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2010, 06:53:57 PM »

I'm not Byzantine rite, that's what the Vatican allows for those who submit to her.  I follow the Constantinoplitan rite, though I like the Antiochean and Alexandrian: hopefully they will be restored even before reunification with the Syriacs and Copts.

Having been an Arab Lutheran, I was no longer schitzophrenic when I entered the Eastern Rite. But then, I'm Eastern.

Btw, I still admire the Russians, but especially the Carpatho-Russians. All the beauty and piety, but no pretentiousness.

An Arab Lutheran?  Do they really exist?
Yes.
http://archive.elca.org/alameh/about.html
http://www.elcjhl.org/cong/jerusalem/
http://www.steliaschicago.org/
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 07:07:22 PM »

For me life as a Western Christian was bound up in the Anglican Church and all that this meant - theological diversity  to the extreme, Anglo-Catholicism (bells and smells) vs. evangelical Protestantism.  It meant a mindset thoroughly infected by the Reformation, the Enlightenment and the slide of western society into essentially neo-atheistic indifference to God and at worst arrogant rejection of the Church.

For me Eastern Orthodoxy constitutes an oasis of Christian presence in an ocean of decay and atrophy.  Like Prince Vladimir, the Liturgy of the Byzantine-rite is incomparable in elevating the soul towards God, in a way that even a traditional Church of England high mass could not.  That doesn't mean I don't love English Anglican cathedral music.  It is sublime.  The Eastern liturgy takes one from the world to God.  An eastern Orthodox church is a true temple of God. 

So the Byzantine rite makes us both other-worldly and as Orthodox Christians we are in a commonwealth of believers, a community whose very purpose is to recall humanity to Jesus Christ.  St. John of Shanghai said that the Russian diaspora was the will of God for the spread of Orthodoxy.  That has been echoed in other diaspora.  It is an irony.  Russian Australians and Russian Americans converting Americans and Australians - maybe that makes us Australian or American Russians?  Seriously, while we live Orthodox life in national jurisdictions, I feel a trans-nationalism, a sense that as Orthodox Christians we are above nationality because we are a spiritual community, whether Russian or Anglo, Greek or Arab, black or white...male or female.

I know that some get this sense of Orthodoxy in the Western-rite.   For me though like Prince Vladimir who found non-Orthodox worship at best banal, it is as one person once said to me "champagne vs. beer".  There is a completeness, a richness, the knowledge that saints have persisted in Byzantine Orthodoxy into this century, and that the Apostolic Faith of Orthodoxy has remained intact, the same and despite the falling of the Western Orthodox Church - the Patriarchate of the West, the Latin Church into the Roman and subsequent heterodox bodies, Orthodoxy is the true Church of Jesus Christ.

You do know that the Russian Chronicle was written over two centuries after the fact, no? And that St. Photios writes about the conversion of the Russian Khanate two centuries before St. Vladimir?

And the worship they saw in the West was Orthodox.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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