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Author Topic: Techno-Slavery?  (Read 2169 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 14, 2010, 04:53:47 PM »

What are your thoughts on the implementation of microchips in human beings? More companies around the world are giving way to this idea and are mandating that their workers receive one or face unemployment. A civil service agency in Mexico is arguing a chip for children as a method to combat kidnapping. In Europe, Spanish youths are receiving a microchip for I.D. purposes when entering nightclubs. I also read of a Scottish pub that is offering their customers a microchip as a way of ''wallet-free drinking''.

Although the chips mentioned are for different purposes, are they really necessary? And if the time does come when it is almost forced, will you take one?
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 04:56:28 PM »

Apart from rumor or the Internet, what evidence exists that such a thing is actually taking place, as apart from being a proposal?
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2010, 06:16:32 PM »

What are your thoughts on the implementation of microchips in human beings?

I have no issues with it as long as it is open technology-based.  The brain is a rather slow computer with very limited storage.  About time it was upgraded.
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2010, 06:47:44 PM »

What are your thoughts on the implementation of microchips in human beings?

I have no issues with it as long as it is open technology-based.  The brain is a rather slow computer with very limited storage.  About time it was upgraded.

I agree, that it be open source is my only main concern...in principle I'm all for it. I don't like having to carry a wallet around anyway.
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 06:51:30 PM »

I think the name of the thread says it all here. Slavery. Why would anyone want to be microchipped? It has nothing to do with quicker banking, but tracking the population. This is the main reason for the microchip, am I incorrect?
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2010, 07:53:48 PM »

I am a transhumanist, I am fine with merging my organic body and modifying and enhancing it via technology however I will not be putting a microchip into my body so Big Brother can know where I am. I will fight this as long as I can. Truly disturbing.
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2010, 08:00:56 PM »

I was so expecting this thread to be about cell phones and television.  Truly wicked masters.   
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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2010, 08:08:31 PM »

I was so expecting this thread to be about cell phones and television.  Truly wicked masters.   

 laugh
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2010, 10:00:55 PM »

I am a transhumanist, I am fine with merging my organic body and modifying and enhancing it via technology

Why?
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2010, 10:24:09 PM »

I am a transhumanist, I am fine with merging my organic body and modifying and enhancing it via technology

Why?

Why not?
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2010, 10:41:27 PM »

What are your thoughts on the implementation of microchips in human beings? More companies around the world are giving way to this idea and are mandating that their workers receive one or face unemployment. A civil service agency in Mexico is arguing a chip for children as a method to combat kidnapping. In Europe, Spanish youths are receiving a microchip for I.D. purposes when entering nightclubs. I also read of a Scottish pub that is offering their customers a microchip as a way of ''wallet-free drinking''.

Although the chips mentioned are for different purposes, are they really necessary? And if the time does come when it is almost forced, will you take one?
Why do you need a chip when we already own a blackberry.
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 12:25:52 AM »

Microchips have one purpose: Tracking the populace within a given country/nation. They often boast great rewards, find your kidnapped child, abolish the need for passports, make banking quicker and more efficient, etc. It has one REAL purpose. Control. Could the microchip do all those things previously listed? Sure. But who honestly thinks that it the real purpose?
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2010, 01:15:00 AM »

I am a transhumanist, I am fine with merging my organic body and modifying and enhancing it via technology

Why?

Why not?

Exactly. As far as tracking microchips go, they are good for pets, they helped me find my cat but as for people, no, never, unless perhaps murderers, pedophiles, and people like that, then I could see the benefits but for the common law-abiding citizenery, absolutely not.
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2010, 01:40:24 AM »

Microchips have one purpose: Tracking the populace within a given country/nation. They often boast great rewards, find your kidnapped child, abolish the need for passports, make banking quicker and more efficient, etc. It has one REAL purpose. Control. Could the microchip do all those things previously listed? Sure. But who honestly thinks that it the real purpose?

I think everyone in favor of them has insisted it be open technology, open-source hardware and software. You certainly have a right to know what is in your body and to modify it at will...for good or ill...but that doesn't mean there's anything fundamentally wrong with the technology.
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« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2010, 02:22:53 AM »

I was so expecting this thread to be about cell phones and television.  Truly wicked masters.   

So was I. And I agree that many people spend way too much time enslaved to computers, phones, and TV. Myself included. But I suppose that's not what this thread is about, rant though I may...

Why do you need a chip when we already own a blackberry.

Exactly. Many, if not most, new cell phones have GPS in them, which can pinpoint your location within a few feet. All cell phones can be used to narrow your location at least to the vicinity of one cell tower, and through triangularization it can narrow it even further, sometimes as accurately as GPS. If you have a debit card or credit card, your location can be tracked when you use it to make a purchase or access your accounts. If you have a car, police and traffic cameras can track you via your license plate. Increasingly-ubiquetous security cameras can track you on foot as well.

So, it's getting very difficult to stay off the grid, and aside from the cameras the government has actively done nothing to track people. That said, I don't support putting microchips in people against their will, because that removes their freedom (difficult as it may be) to stay off the grid if they so choose. But that is rather Evangelical-apocalyptic. Aside from the Antichrist scenario, I don't think it's particularly different from the present situation anyway. The government can already track people, and they already control our behavior through showy security theater, like at airports. Microchips don't change that reality, except that it's harder to change your mind afterwards.
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2010, 07:49:53 AM »

I am a transhumanist, I am fine with merging my organic body and modifying and enhancing it via technology

Why?

Why not?

Exactly.


GiC asks "Why not?" because he's an atheist who sees human beings as nothing more than biological machines. What about you?
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2010, 10:30:00 AM »

GiC asks "Why not?" because he's an atheist who sees human beings as nothing more than biological machines. What about you?

It may sound strange in theory but already this is our reality and becoming more so as the years roll on. If you are deaf, we now can give you a cochlear implant and give you, your hearing back. If you suffered an accident at work, like many in the past have, you lose your hands and thus your livelihood, in the future we can give you, your hands back. If a person needs are heart transplant, we could give you an artificial one instead of depending on ghoulish harvesting or years waiting on a list and often no hope in sight. If you are forced to mine diamonds, your legs are hacked off by thugs, in the future, we could give you your legs and mobility back. What is wrong with this? Why not dream and try to achieve the impossible?
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2010, 11:52:19 AM »

GiC asks "Why not?" because he's an atheist who sees human beings as nothing more than biological machines. What about you?

It may sound strange in theory but already this is our reality and becoming more so as the years roll on. If you are deaf, we now can give you a cochlear implant and give you, your hearing back. If you suffered an accident at work, like many in the past have, you lose your hands and thus your livelihood, in the future we can give you, your hands back. If a person needs are heart transplant, we could give you an artificial one instead of depending on ghoulish harvesting or years waiting on a list and often no hope in sight. If you are forced to mine diamonds, your legs are hacked off by thugs, in the future, we could give you your legs and mobility back. What is wrong with this?

Nothing wrong with it. It's just that, that's not transhumanism- it has nothing to do with "enhancing" or making better humans. The purpose of these devices is to restore "normal" function as much as possible. All of those people would rather have their real, healthy limbs or organs. I find this argument amusing, and it's often made by the transhumanists- "I have seen the future, and it's an old guy with a pacemaker!"  

Maybe the military can hire you to counsel our wounded soldiers though. "Hey, that artificial limb isn't so bad- in fact, you've been upgraded." No, I don't think that'll fly...

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Why not dream and try to achieve the impossible?

The way to make "better" humans is to make them more human. Christ is our messiah, not technology. Faith, hope, and love are our values. Speed, efficiency, strength? That's what we make machines for. No need to put them in our bodies.
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« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2010, 12:27:39 PM »

Nothing wrong with it. It's just that, that's not transhumanism- it has nothing to do with "enhancing" or making better humans. The purpose of these devices is to restore "normal" function as much as possible. All of those people would rather have their real, healthy limbs or organs. I find this argument amusing, and it's often made by the transhumanists- "I have seen the future, and it's an old guy with a pacemaker!"  

Restore, upgrade, seems like this is a matter of perspective, if anything.

Quote
Maybe the military can hire you to counsel our wounded soldiers though. "Hey, that artificial limb isn't so bad- in fact, you've been upgraded."

Maybe I will do that, maybe I will ask my superiors about how I can become a chaplain once I get baptised.  laugh

Seems alot better than telling a fellow sailor, sorry mate, you're just a gimp now, God be with you.

Quote
The way to make "better" humans is to make them more human. Christ is our messiah, not technology. Faith, hope, and love are our values. Speed, efficiency, strength? That's what we make machines for. No need to put them in our bodies.

You seem to be injecting an argument here that I am not making. I agree, Christ is the messiah, God is our Lord, all of the values of Christianity, I believe are superior and will bring about a more enlightened society. However with this being said, why not improve the body if we can? Why not upgrade? I don't see the merging of flesh and metal to negate the spirit nor does it negate the truth of Christ's message nor would making the human form better replace the values of hope, faith, love, compassion for speed, efficiency and so forth.
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« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2010, 12:42:29 PM »

Nothing wrong with it. It's just that, that's not transhumanism- it has nothing to do with "enhancing" or making better humans. The purpose of these devices is to restore "normal" function as much as possible. All of those people would rather have their real, healthy limbs or organs. I find this argument amusing, and it's often made by the transhumanists- "I have seen the future, and it's an old guy with a pacemaker!"  

Restore, upgrade, seems like this is a matter of perspective, if anything.



"Hey Smee, check out my upgraded hand! Thank you Peter Pan for removing my old crappy hand- now I'll never suffer arthritis."

No, it's really not a matter of perspective. Maybe you can point to someone with a healthy heart who had a pacemaker installed just to make himself "better".

Quote
Seems alot better than telling a fellow sailor, sorry mate, you're just a gimp now, God be with you.

Again, I've got no problem with giving prosthetic limbs to those who've been wounded. But again, they would rather still have natural, healthy limbs.

Quote
You seem to be injecting an argument here that I am not making. I agree, Christ is the messiah, God is our Lord, all of the values of Christianity, I believe are superior and will bring about a more enlightened society. However with this being said, why not improve the body if we can? Why not upgrade? I don't see the merging of flesh and metal to negate the spirit

It certainly negates the body. To be human is to be both body and soul, and both have the same purpose: theosis. Another reason transhumanism is anti-Christian- contempt for the human body.

Quote
nor does it negate the truth of Christ's message nor would making the human form better replace the values of hope, faith, love, compassion for speed, efficiency and so forth.

So you think you can have a human form "better" than the one Christ had? Will God resurrect us as cyborgs? Which nifty cybernetic gadgets did Jesus display at the Transfiguration?
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« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2010, 12:59:23 PM »

Iconodule, the merging of human beings and technology looks well-nigh inevitable. Do you think that Christians will completely avoid technological trends that the rest of the human race will slowly adopt? Is it necessary to be a Luddite to be Orthodox, and will you consider bishops who do not resist this trend (even, perhaps, adopt it) to have fallen into heresy and break communion with them?

In any event, the duality of soul and body does not disappear in transhumanism because human beings would still be intangible soul and concrete matter. The basic truth that we are created beings that serve an almighty God, whom we should worship every second of our existence, does not change even if the shape of the body does. Death remains a reality, even if the date is postponed, thus the need for a Saviour is still there.
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« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2010, 01:14:18 PM »

Iconodule, the merging of human beings and technology looks well-nigh inevitable.

That's quite an assertion. What's your proof? To some folks, Marx's communism looked "inevitable" for a really long time. Actually transhumanism and Marxism have a lot in common, as atheist messianic beliefs go.

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Do you think that Christians will completely avoid technological trends that the rest of the human race will slowly adopt? Is it necessary to be a Luddite to be Orthodox,

Ah, so anyone who doesn't want to "enhance" his body with surgical implants is a luddite. Interesting.

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and will you consider bishops who do not resist this trend (even, perhaps, adopt it) to have fallen into heresy and break communion with them?

Transhumanism is certainly a Satanic ideology and I would not remain under any bishop who advocated it.

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In any event, the duality of soul and body does not disappear in transhumanism because human beings would still be intangible soul and concrete matter.

So as long as our body is made of matter, it's a human body... Gotcha.

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The basic truth that we are created beings that serve an almighty God, whom we should worship every second of our existence, does not change even if the shape of the body does.

Sheep, cats, and grasshoppers are also created beings who serve an almighty God. Your truth is a little too basic.

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Death remains a reality, even if the date is postponed, thus the need for a Saviour is still there.

Transhumanists believe that we will eventually achieve biological immortality. Actually it will not be immortality but the indefinite prolongation of corruption.
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« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2010, 01:19:54 PM »

"The flesh is the hinge of Slavation." -Tertullian
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« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2010, 01:20:51 PM »


Transhumanists believe that we will eventually achieve biological immortality. Actually it will not be immortality but the indefinite prolongation of corruption.
A very important distinction.
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« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2010, 01:59:02 PM »

To some folks, Marx's communism looked "inevitable" for a really long time. Actually transhumanism and Marxism have a lot in common, as atheist messianic beliefs go.

Marxism is an ideology that people have to think about and subscribe to. The slow pace of technology is usually unconsciously following consumer trends.

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Ah, so anyone who doesn't want to "enhance" his body with surgical implants is a luddite.

Can you think of some other convenient label for someone who refuses to adopt technological progress even as the rest of society does? If you can, I can use that word instead.

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Transhumanism is certainly a Satanic ideology and I would not remain under any bishop who advocated it.

I don't even think many people are going to consciously advocate it, they would simply adopt it gradually.

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Sheep, cats, and grasshoppers are also created beings who serve an almighty God. Your truth is a little too basic.

And they don't have a soul, so they aren't comparable to Man.

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Transhumanists believe that we will eventually achieve biological immortality.

So do people who follow medical breakthroughs. Let's say that the human race doesn't merge with machines, but genetics reaches the point that one can undergo periodic treatments that essentially keep the body in good shape indefinitely. (For a standard science fiction example, think of the Treatment in K. Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy). Will you say those are sinful as well? Shall we only allow medical treatment if it doesn't increase longevity?
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« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2010, 02:07:00 PM »

I stable times it seems like a convenience. In troubled times I would be afraid the Government could track you.

COINTELPRO (an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program) was a series of covert, and often illegal, projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations.

COINTELPRO tactics included discrediting targets through psychological warfare, planting false reports in the media, smearing through forged letters, harassment, wrongful imprisonment, extralegal violence and assassination. Covert operations under COINTELPRO took place between 1956 and 1971, however the FBI has used covert operations against domestic political groups since its inception.[2] The FBI's stated motivation at the time was "protecting national security, preventing violence, and maintaining the existing social and political order."[3]

FBI records show that 85% of COINTELPRO resources targeted groups and individuals that the FBI deemed "subversive,"[4] including communist and socialist organizations; organizations and individuals associated with the civil rights movement, including Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and others associated with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and the Congress of Racial Equality and other civil rights organizations; black nationalist groups; the American Indian Movement; a broad range of organizations labeled "New Left", including Students for a Democratic Society and the Weathermen; almost all groups protesting the Vietnam War, as well as individual student demonstrators with no group affiliation; the National Lawyers Guild; organizations and individuals associated with the women's rights movement; nationalist groups such as those seeking "independence for Puerto Rico" and a United Ireland; and additional notable Americans, such as Dr. Albert Einstein. The remaining 15% of COINTELPRO resources were expended to marginalize and subvert "white hate groups," including the Ku Klux Klan and National States' Rights Party.[5]

FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover issued directives governing COINTELPRO, ordering FBI agents to "expose, disrupt, misdirect, discredit, or otherwise neutralize" the activities of these movements and their leaders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
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« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2010, 02:13:07 PM »

I stable times it seems like a convenience. In troubled times I would be afraid the Government could track you.

It's already like that if you have a mobile phone, as has been clear for at least a decade (I remember reading about all this when scandal of the ECHELON program and the European Parliament's investigation provoked all kinds of discussion about encryption and privacy). If you have a phone in Europe, you've got to remove the battery to ensure it cannot be used to monitor you. Even if it is turned off and seemingly inert, it could still be used to track your location if the state wants to. If you're concerned about privacy, start worrying about the technology you have around you today and don't freak out about what's not even widespread yet.
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« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2010, 02:45:33 PM »

Transhumanists believe that we will eventually achieve biological immortality. Actually it will not be immortality but the indefinite prolongation of corruption.

No one thinks they're going to live for every, somewhere between the next 10^38 and 10^100 years it's most probable that the universe will not be capable of supporting life: biological, technological, or otherwise. The forces of space time expanding will simply become too strong for the electromagnetic and even nuclear bonds in matter to survive.
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« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2010, 03:04:27 PM »



"Hey Smee, check out my upgraded hand! Thank you Peter Pan for removing my old crappy hand- now I'll never suffer arthritis."

Because antiquated pirate hooks are exactly the type of modifications I am talking about.

Quote
No, it's really not a matter of perspective. Maybe you can point to someone with a healthy heart who had a pacemaker installed just to make himself "better".

Again, I've got no problem with giving prosthetic limbs to those who've been wounded. But again, they would rather still have natural, healthy limbs.


Some may, some may not. Personally, if I could run faster, jump higher, see better, hear better and enhance all of my faculties through technology, then why not? Why does there have to be some ailment or something wrong for it to be kosher to do so? Not only this, you are misportraying what I am saying and the arguments of Transhumanism. No, I do not glorify pacemakers, no I don't think I would tamper with my heart if I didn't need to with a pacemaker, why? Because they are largely inefficient, even to those who need them legitemately. However, if in the future, I could have a heart, stronger than my own, more reliable, and that would be better, perhaps then I might switch but I more talking about modifying the body in other areas than the heart.

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It certainly negates the body. To be human is to be both body and soul, and both have the same purpose: theosis. Another reason transhumanism is anti-Christian- contempt for the human body.

I don't necessarily think it's contempt to say that the human form can be improved if need be. Nor do I think the 'body' always has to imply the organic body either.

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So you think you can have a human form "better" than the one Christ had? Will God resurrect us as cyborgs? Which nifty cybernetic gadgets did Jesus display at the Transfiguration?

How does this have any relation to my quote? I don't think it does, Jesus didn't need or desire that because he was God and his time on this Earth wasn't going to be long, he knew this and purposely so however I don't see what this has to do with my quote nor do I see how modifying the body for the better would negate any of the teachings of Christ. You are injecting false arguments here where I am not presenting them nor hold them in attempts to outright reject Transhumanism when I believe it very well could coexist properly with Christian orthodoxy.
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« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2010, 03:09:45 PM »

To some folks, Marx's communism looked "inevitable" for a really long time. Actually transhumanism and Marxism have a lot in common, as atheist messianic beliefs go.

Marxism is an ideology that people have to think about and subscribe to.

No, only the people in the vanguard party need to do that. The mass of the proletariat are compelled by historic and economic forces far beyond their comprehension to overthrow capitalism and only afterward do they gradually assimilate communist ideology. In Marxism, practical reality always outpaces ideas.

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Can you think of some other convenient label for someone who refuses to adopt technological progress even as the rest of society does?

I can think of a convenient label for someone who uncritically swallows every trend that comes along, but it wouldn't be polite to say it.  

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Sheep, cats, and grasshoppers are also created beings who serve an almighty God. Your truth is a little too basic.

And they don't have a soul, so they aren't comparable to Man.


Ah, see, you didn't specify that. Actually animals do have souls, just not rational/ immortal ones. Another thing that distinguishes them is that they don't have human bodies. Or would you call a rational chicken a human being?

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So do people who follow medical breakthroughs.

Outside of the Kurzweil crowd, most tend to be more circumspect.

 
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Let's say that the human race doesn't merge with machines, but genetics reaches the point that one can undergo periodic treatments that essentially keep the body in good shape indefinitely. (For a standard science fiction example, think of the Treatment in K. Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy). Will you say those are sinful as well? Shall we only allow medical treatment if it doesn't increase longevity?

Now we know your problem- too many sci-fi and cyberpunk books. As for the gene therapy, it would really depend on what's involved. Are we trying to maintain healthy human bodies, or make "better" transhuman bodies?
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« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2010, 03:11:52 PM »

Transhumanists believe that we will eventually achieve biological immortality. Actually it will not be immortality but the indefinite prolongation of corruption.

No one thinks they're going to live for every, somewhere between the next 10^38 and 10^100 years it's most probable that the universe will not be capable of supporting life: biological, technological, or otherwise. The forces of space time expanding will simply become too strong for the electromagnetic and even nuclear bonds in matter to survive.

Trust me, plenty of transhumanists will tell you about how we will create wormholes to other universes, or upload our brains into computers which will use the energy of the collapsing universe to subjectively stretch out time indefinitely, or...
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« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2010, 03:12:16 PM »

Transhumanists believe that we will eventually achieve biological immortality. Actually it will not be immortality but the indefinite prolongation of corruption.

No one thinks they're going to live for every, somewhere between the next 10^38 and 10^100 years it's most probable that the universe will not be capable of supporting life: biological, technological, or otherwise. The forces of space time expanding will simply become too strong for the electromagnetic and even nuclear bonds in matter to survive.
And who wants to live to see that?  laugh
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« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2010, 03:23:06 PM »



"Hey Smee, check out my upgraded hand! Thank you Peter Pan for removing my old crappy hand- now I'll never suffer arthritis."

Because antiquated pirate hooks are exactly the type of modifications I am talking about.

You listed prosthetic limbs as enhancements, so yes, they really are. Today's prosthetic limbs may be better (meaning, closer to normal human limbs) than the old hook, but are they as good as the healthy human limbs we're born with? Not even close.

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Some may, some may not. Personally, if I could run faster, jump higher, see better, hear better and enhance all of my faculties through technology, then why not?

Because we've already got bicycles, pogo sticks, and binoculars?

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How does this have any relation to my quote? I don't think it does, Jesus didn't need or desire that because he was God and his time on this Earth wasn't going to be long,

He still has his body...

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he knew this and purposely so however I don't see what this has to do with my quote nor do I see how modifying the body for the better would negate any of the teachings of Christ.

Ah, that's why Christ didn't install rockets in his feet or lasers in his eyes- "I'm only going to be here 33 years, so I won't be around to enjoy them very along!"

Jesus Christ is PERFECT God and PERFECT man, including the body.
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« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2010, 03:51:44 PM »

Transhumanists believe that we will eventually achieve biological immortality. Actually it will not be immortality but the indefinite prolongation of corruption.

No one thinks they're going to live for every, somewhere between the next 10^38 and 10^100 years it's most probable that the universe will not be capable of supporting life: biological, technological, or otherwise. The forces of space time expanding will simply become too strong for the electromagnetic and even nuclear bonds in matter to survive.
And who wants to live to see that?  laugh

I don't know that I do, but much of so-called 'immortality' in transhumanism is simply a matter of free will, it's not that one wants to live forever, but that we should have more liberty in choosing the time and setting of our death.
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« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2010, 05:32:37 PM »

The implementation of chips is beneficial to the growth of humanity. Once chips are implanted in all citizens, the world will be a safer place, the economies will stabilise and we shall save the future generations from disease and hunger. Remembering that the highest form of human life and activity is him in his role as a consumer, the chip shall facilitate the emancipation of the poor from their poverty and will provide them with unlimited resources - cash.
Neoliberalism is victorious, the governments shall be subdued, and we will be ruled by international corporations. Oh wait we are already ruled by corporations, most governments are the debtors of huge corporations. It is astonishing that soon we will see the demise of government and the rise of management in resolving conflicts. The self-regulating market provides unprecedented solutions to the ever-changing world, something which the state cannot do. The state, in concordance with the liberal and libertarian ideology, abides by the rules of strict law. This is a heresy, for the moneymakers are better judges than educated legalistic mystical legal practitioners. The market provides for a situational ethics, which is called soft law, which is not bound to be announced beforehand, but practised in accordance with the dominating position of the independent international entrepreneur. Finally we will liberate ourselves from the restrictive Christian morals of keeping your promises (pacta sunt servanda) and paying proper dues.
(This above is a satirical yet accurate description of libertarians, neoliberals, Hayekists, et cetera)
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« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2010, 09:33:38 PM »

Transhumanists believe that we will eventually achieve biological immortality. Actually it will not be immortality but the indefinite prolongation of corruption.

No one thinks they're going to live for every, somewhere between the next 10^38 and 10^100 years it's most probable that the universe will not be capable of supporting life: biological, technological, or otherwise. The forces of space time expanding will simply become too strong for the electromagnetic and even nuclear bonds in matter to survive.
And who wants to live to see that?  laugh

I don't know that I do, but much of so-called 'immortality' in transhumanism is simply a matter of free will, it's not that one wants to live forever, but that we should have more liberty in choosing the time and setting of our death.

I think I saw that movie:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sp-VFBbjpE
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Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
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