Author Topic: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies  (Read 884 times)

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Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« on: December 13, 2010, 08:28:25 PM »
I am aware of some of the so called heresies within the MP, such as sophianism, and the Name Worshippers on Mt. Athos. What are some other modern heresies from other jurisdictions? Please include any others from Russia as well if you would like.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 08:30:26 PM by PoorFoolNicholas »

Offline Punch

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2010, 08:34:42 PM »
I am aware of some of the so called heresies within the MP, such as sophianism, and the Name Worshippers on Mt. Athos. What are some other modern heresies from other jurisdictions? Please include any others from Russia as well if you would like.

Don't know what you are talking about.  Sophianism was condemned by both the MP and the ROCOR, so how can it be a heresy "within" the ROC.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2010, 08:52:09 PM »
 You misunderstand what I am asking. I am not saying that something  condemned by the MP is not heresy to those of Antioch. I am simply asking about the various modern heresies that have started in different jurisdictions of the One Orthodox Church. Sophianism started mostly, from what I have read, in Russia.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2010, 09:52:20 PM »
Phyletism. The Greek Church (Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch (then), Jerusalem, Cyprus) or the Church of Bulgaria, depending on your POV.

The Patriarchate of Moscow has had many, for the simple reason of the great numbers, the expanses where dissidents could hide in remote areas. In the other Churches, the flock is more managable size, and hence can be brought back into line more easily.  The hiearchy has done its job trying to deal with correcting them. Enforcement was only the problem, particularly during Communism.
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Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2010, 10:17:59 PM »
You bring up some good points Isa. I was wondering why Russian seemed to have more heresies than the other jurisdictions. Any others?

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2010, 10:29:34 PM »
Apostolos Makrakis and that one weird lady whose name and heresy I cannot remember in Greece.

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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2010, 10:32:26 PM »
Sophianism was promoted in Russia by the writings of the Roman Catholic Vladimir Soloviev.

In Paris it was promoted by two or three intellectual Russian ex-pats after the Revolution, who were members of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

I very much doubt if the Ecumenical Patriarchate took any notice of what they wrote in Russian and that is why it fell to both the Moscow Patriarchate and the Russian Church Abroad to condemn it.

But we should be clear that we are not really speaking about a heresy among the faithful of the Russian Church  but of no more than a handful of Russian intellectuals, in Paris under the EP.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2010, 10:33:57 PM »
You bring up some good points Isa. I was wondering why Russian seemed to have more heresies than the other jurisdictions. Any others?

I believe that some claim that tollerism as taught by hieromonk Seraphim Rose is a heresy.

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2010, 11:25:57 PM »
I am not completely sure whether it is approppriate to call it heresy, but I have heard from my friends in Ukraine (including UOC-MP priests) that one horrible plague that is extremely predominant in the MP right now is the so-called "mladostarchestvo," i.e. the trend for young, sometimes very young (20 years old or so) monks in MP monasteries to declare themselves especially spiritually enlightened and to gather crowds of people whom they brainwash into considering themselves spiritual guides. This is particularly apparent in the Pochayiv (Rus. "Pochaev") Lavra in Ukraine. Every single day, busloads of pilgrims arrive to Pochayiv to meet with these "mladostartsy" nutballs. They teach the pilgrims various things, like one ought not to have an ID number, or a taxpayer's ID, because it means "joining the electronic jail of Satan," or that it is Satanic to pray in the modern vernacular Ukrainian, etc. Very sad example of savagery masquerading in Orthodox robes...
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Offline Punch

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2010, 12:01:30 AM »
I am not completely sure whether it is approppriate to call it heresy, but I have heard from my friends in Ukraine (including UOC-MP priests) that one horrible plague that is extremely predominant in the MP right now is the so-called "mladostarchestvo," i.e. the trend for young, sometimes very young (20 years old or so) monks in MP monasteries to declare themselves especially spiritually enlightened and to gather crowds of people whom they brainwash into considering themselves spiritual guides. This is particularly apparent in the Pochayiv (Rus. "Pochaev") Lavra in Ukraine. Every single day, busloads of pilgrims arrive to Pochayiv to meet with these "mladostartsy" nutballs. They teach the pilgrims various things, like one ought not to have an ID number, or a taxpayer's ID, because it means "joining the electronic jail of Satan," or that it is Satanic to pray in the modern vernacular Ukrainian, etc. Very sad example of savagery masquerading in Orthodox robes...

That is sad.  Pochaev is somewhat close to me, and the cross over my IKons was given to me by a monk from that Lavra.  I am sad that things have gone this way.  May St. Job intercede for them.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2010, 12:25:42 AM »
I am not completely sure whether it is approppriate to call it heresy, but I have heard from my friends in Ukraine (including UOC-MP priests) that one horrible plague that is extremely predominant in the MP right now is the so-called "mladostarchestvo," i.e. the trend for young, sometimes very young (20 years old or so) monks in MP monasteries to declare themselves especially spiritually enlightened and to gather crowds of people whom they brainwash into considering themselves spiritual guides. This is particularly apparent in the Pochayiv (Rus. "Pochaev") Lavra in Ukraine. Every single day, busloads of pilgrims arrive to Pochayiv to meet with these "mladostartsy" nutballs. They teach the pilgrims various things, like one ought not to have an ID number, or a taxpayer's ID, because it means "joining the electronic jail of Satan," or that it is Satanic to pray in the modern vernacular Ukrainian, etc. Very sad example of savagery masquerading in Orthodox robes...
What's being done about this? Anything? I know when the name Worshippers were on Athos they sent the Russian Navy? Should we expect a reunion sometime soon?

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2010, 12:32:12 AM »
I am not completely sure whether it is approppriate to call it heresy, but I have heard from my friends in Ukraine (including UOC-MP priests) that one horrible plague that is extremely predominant in the MP right now is the so-called "mladostarchestvo," i.e. the trend for young, sometimes very young (20 years old or so) monks in MP monasteries to declare themselves especially spiritually enlightened and to gather crowds of people whom they brainwash into considering themselves spiritual guides. This is particularly apparent in the Pochayiv (Rus. "Pochaev") Lavra in Ukraine. Every single day, busloads of pilgrims arrive to Pochayiv to meet with these "mladostartsy" nutballs. They teach the pilgrims various things, like one ought not to have an ID number, or a taxpayer's ID, because it means "joining the electronic jail of Satan," or that it is Satanic to pray in the modern vernacular Ukrainian, etc. Very sad example of savagery masquerading in Orthodox robes...
What's being done about this? Anything? I know when the name Worshippers were on Athos they sent the Russian Navy? Should we expect a reunion sometime soon?

Last year the bishops of the Russian Church at their Synodal meeting condemned this phenomenon of "young eldership."   I cannot remember though where you could find that document.

Offline PoorFoolNicholas

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2010, 12:00:50 PM »
Apostolos Makrakis and that one weird lady whose name and heresy I cannot remember in Greece.


Anyone know more about this one?

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Modern Jurisdictional Heresies
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2010, 12:05:11 PM »
I am not completely sure whether it is approppriate to call it heresy, but I have heard from my friends in Ukraine (including UOC-MP priests) that one horrible plague that is extremely predominant in the MP right now is the so-called "mladostarchestvo," i.e. the trend for young, sometimes very young (20 years old or so) monks in MP monasteries to declare themselves especially spiritually enlightened and to gather crowds of people whom they brainwash into considering themselves spiritual guides. This is particularly apparent in the Pochayiv (Rus. "Pochaev") Lavra in Ukraine. Every single day, busloads of pilgrims arrive to Pochayiv to meet with these "mladostartsy" nutballs. They teach the pilgrims various things, like one ought not to have an ID number, or a taxpayer's ID, because it means "joining the electronic jail of Satan," or that it is Satanic to pray in the modern vernacular Ukrainian, etc. Very sad example of savagery masquerading in Orthodox robes...

This is a problem globally, I think, as well. I have seen it in America. Fr. John Krestiankin of blessed memory wrote vigorously against this as spiritual charlatanism and very dangerous for souls.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
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