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Author Topic: THREE ORTHODOX PARISHES IN AUSTRALIA JOIN KYIVAN PATRIARCHATE  (Read 1751 times) Average Rating: 0
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pious1
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« on: December 07, 2010, 10:39:59 AM »

http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/ukraine_and_world/ukrainians_outside_of_Ukraine/39431/

Seems as thought the UOC Kyivan Patriarchate seems to be growing....
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mike
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 11:34:13 AM »

There must be more than 7 parishes in Australia, this newsreport is lame. Nevertheless, whom that 3 parishes did belong too?
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 11:49:40 AM »

http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/ukraine_and_world/ukrainians_outside_of_Ukraine/39431/

Seems as thought the UOC Kyivan Patriarchate seems to be growing....
so is Islam. What's your point?

From the same "news" page:
Quote
The date marks the beginning of Islam as a community in which spiritual and earthly life were completely integrated. It was a community inspired by God, and totally obedient to God; a group of people bound together by faith.

By breaking the link with his own tribe the Prophet demonstrated that tribal and family loyalties were insignificant compared to the bonds of Islam.
http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/other_confessions/islam/39490/

Seems like those wanting "to be in unity with the Kyivan Orthodox Church" are communities "inspired by God" like the Muslims. They are bound togethe by faith, but not the Orthodox Faith.

So, under whom were these parishes?  Since Australia has more than seven Orthodox Churches, it would seem these Ukrainian "Orthodox" were not under an Orthodox bishop.
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pious1
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 12:04:03 PM »

I'm not sure, I wonder if the parishes are in communion with the UOCUSA and UOCC that are under Constantinople. I have been looking online and the list of Orthodox churches does list the UOC but no other information provided...

http://www.ministryblue.com/church-orthodox.html#Ukrainian%20Orthodox

It looks like they were under the UAOC under Met Mefodiy, that is the only link to Ukrainian Orthodox on the website.
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IreneOlinyk
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« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 12:23:26 PM »

The last I heard of the Ukrainian Orthodox in Australia was in the 1990's.  The Ukrainian Orthodox Churches there date back to a very small immigration after WW2 mainly from Eastern Ukraine and they were under the UOC-USA.
This is very surprising news.
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IreneOlinyk
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« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2010, 09:25:53 PM »

http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/ukraine_and_world/ukrainians_outside_of_Ukraine/39431/

Seems as thought the UOC Kyivan Patriarchate seems to be growing....

There are many mistakes in this article.  Forexample, there are over 100 Orthodox parishes of various jurisdictions in Australia.
There are 11 parishes of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church under the UOC-EP,  in the Australia and New Zealand Diocese:
1. Perth, Western Australia - 1 parish
2.  Adelaide, South Australia - 1 parish
3. Geelong, Victoria - 1 parish
4. Melbourne, Victoria - 3 parishes
5.Canberra (A.C.T.) - 1 parish
 6. Sydney, New South Wales - 3 parishes
7.  Brisbane, Queensland - 1 parish
 

It is just not true that 3 parishes of the UOC-EP in Australia & New Zealand left their canonical jurisdiction.  Only one parish named St. Michael's in Adelaide left 5 years ago and joined the UOC-KP.   There was a split in the parish and the people who wanted to remain with the UOC-EP formed a new parish in Adelaide, 5 years ago named St. Andrew’s Ukrainian Orthodox Church which exists to this very day.

For verification see the 2 comments under the article here:
http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/ukraine_and_world/ukrainians_outside_of_Ukraine/39431/
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« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2010, 11:34:41 AM »

http://risu.org.ua/en/index/all_news/ukraine_and_world/ukrainians_outside_of_Ukraine/39431/

Seems as thought the UOC Kyivan Patriarchate seems to be growing....

When did Kiev get a Patriarch?  Did I miss something?
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« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2010, 11:38:06 AM »

When did Kiev get a Patriarch?  Did I miss something?

Never as for now. You have not missed anything.
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« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2010, 11:51:17 AM »

from www.en.uockp.net

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kyivan Patriarchate is a direct descendant of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church of 1921 under Metroplitan Vasyl Lypkiwskyj.  The Ukrainian Orthodox faithful in the United States and Canada were all part of this church and were sent hierarchs from Ukraine to serve the faithful.  The first of which was His Beatitude Metropolitan John Theodorovich.  The UAOC was persecuted in Ukraine and thousands of Bishops and priests were executed at the hands of the Bolshevik regime. 

In an unfortunate event, illegal by the statutes of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church in The USA, after the death of Ukraine's first Patriarch, His Holiness Patriarch Mstyslav,  the hierarchy of The Ukrainian Orthodox Church in the USA renounced their autocephaly and left The Ukrainian Orthodox Church in 1994.  These hierarchs joined The Ecumenical Patriarchate as Titular Bishops of the throne and left The Ukrainian Orthodox Church with its historical center in Kyiv, Ukraine. 

It was at this time that many Ukrainian Orthodox faithful decided to stay with the mother church and honor their ancestors wishes and the wishes of our martyred clergy who were executed for their faith.  The Vicariate of The Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kyivan Patriarchate in The USA and Canada, calls on all of its children in North America to honor the wishes of Patriarchs Mstyslav and Volodymyr and not succumb to foreign rule but rather unite with The Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kyivan Patriarchate.

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Kyivan Patriarchate is The Pomisna Orthodox Church of Ukraine.  It serves the spiritual needs of all Orthodox christians throughout the world.

At this time The Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kyivan Patriarchate has approximately 40 hierarchs, over 4000 parishes in Ukraine alone and 29 Eparchies in the various regions of Ukraine.  It also has parishes throughout Europe (Germany, Greece, Moldova etc.) and The Vicariate of The USA and Canada.

The Patriarchate has functioning educational centers such as The Kyiv and Lviv Theological Academies, seminaries in Lutsk and Rivne, a Theological Institute in Ivano-Frankivsk, and an accredited Philosophical and Theological curriculum at The National University of Chernivtsi. 


The Patriarchate has the support of over 10 million faithful in Ukraine. (In comparison The Moscow Patriarchate in Ukraine has the support of approximately 5 million faithful in Ukraine) In December of 2006 in the Capital Of Ukraine Kyiv, a public news poll found 52% of those asked were supporters of The Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kyivan Patriarchate and only 8% aligned themselves with The Moscow Patriarchate.

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Jake
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2011, 01:37:13 PM »

Dear Pious,
But the original article at the top of this thread had misinformation.   Only one parish left the UOC-EP 5 years ago.
Why are the 3 parishes that belong to the UOC-KP not named in the article?
Jake
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pious1
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2011, 03:00:20 PM »

Dear Pious,
But the original article at the top of this thread had misinformation.   Only one parish left the UOC-EP 5 years ago.
Why are the 3 parishes that belong to the UOC-KP not named in the article?
Jake

That is a good question. I have no idea. My guess is that maybe 2 other parishes are in talks of joining the Kyivan Patriarchate. I know here in the states, some of the more ethnic Ukrainian parishes have wavered back in forth of whether or not to join the Kyivan Patriarchate as the UOCUSA left it in 1995 and joined the Greeks. My understanding is some parishes are afraid of being sued like the parish in Clifton NJ was. Even though the hierarchs lost the case, they spent a lot of money and some parishes are scared of the financial burden of a lawsuit. Also there is a differing of opinions in the parishioners of the UOCUSA parishes. Many see renouncing autocepahly and renouncing an independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church as justified to recieve cannonicalrecognition of the Greeks and becoming a jurisdiction of the Eccumenical Patriarchate. Plus many UOCUSA parishes particulary have become more multi-ethnic with more converts, many non-Ukrainians, and 3rd, 4th generation Ukrainian Americans who speak little to no Ukrainian. As a result, there is a stronger desire to become less Ukrainian and more American. God Bless those parishes as I wish them no ill will.

I know in the US there are now 16 parishes that have remained with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kyivan Patriarchate. These are very ethnic parishes with little to no English used in their liturgies and made up of first generation Ukrainian Immigrants and new wave immigrants from Ukraine.

I pray everyday that there will be one Ukrainian Orthodox Church and it will be recognized by the other Patriarchates. This apparently will take time and healing as it did for other jurisdictions like the Bulgarian, Serbian, ect. I just hope that neither Moscow nor Constantinople attempt to absorb the church as it did with ACROD, UOCUSA or UOC-Canada with the EP. Under the omophorion of the Eccumenical Patriachate like the UOCUSA, ACROD, and UOC-Canada means it is under the jurisdiction of the EP and is not independent. Cannonical yes, as a branch of the Eccumenical Patriachate, independent, no.
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2011, 04:00:47 PM »

Dear Pious,
But the original article at the top of this thread had misinformation.   Only one parish left the UOC-EP 5 years ago.
Why are the 3 parishes that belong to the UOC-KP not named in the article?
Jake

That is a good question. I have no idea. My guess is that maybe 2 other parishes are in talks of joining the Kyivan Patriarchate. I know here in the states, some of the more ethnic Ukrainian parishes have wavered back in forth of whether or not to join the Kyivan Patriarchate as the UOCUSA left it in 1995 and joined the Greeks. My understanding is some parishes are afraid of being sued like the parish in Clifton NJ was. Even though the hierarchs lost the case, they spent a lot of money and some parishes are scared of the financial burden of a lawsuit. Also there is a differing of opinions in the parishioners of the UOCUSA parishes. Many see renouncing autocepahly and renouncing an independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church as justified to recieve cannonicalrecognition of the Greeks and becoming a jurisdiction of the Eccumenical Patriarchate. Plus many UOCUSA parishes particulary have become more multi-ethnic with more converts, many non-Ukrainians, and 3rd, 4th generation Ukrainian Americans who speak little to no Ukrainian. As a result, there is a stronger desire to become less Ukrainian and more American. God Bless those parishes as I wish them no ill will.

I know in the US there are now 16 parishes that have remained with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kyivan Patriarchate. These are very ethnic parishes with little to no English used in their liturgies and made up of first generation Ukrainian Immigrants and new wave immigrants from Ukraine.

I pray everyday that there will be one Ukrainian Orthodox Church and it will be recognized by the other Patriarchates. This apparently will take time and healing as it did for other jurisdictions like the Bulgarian, Serbian, ect. I just hope that neither Moscow nor Constantinople attempt to absorb the church as it did with ACROD, UOCUSA or UOC-Canada with the EP. Under the omophorion of the Eccumenical Patriachate like the UOCUSA, ACROD, and UOC-Canada means it is under the jurisdiction of the EP and is not independent. Cannonical yes, as a branch of the Eccumenical Patriachate, independent, no.

I can speak only of ACROD, but I believe this to be true of both UOCUSA and Canada. I am not aware of any interference with the internal, administrative affairs of my Diocese during the nearly 75 years it has been under the omophor of the Ecumenical Throne. To the contrary, for many years as we evolved from newly received former Greek Catholics, many of their practices were tolerated and have since faded away over the decades. (Actually I can think of one thing - one year a former Bishop, of Thrice Blessed Memory, decided to consecrate his own chrism during Holy Week. That did result in a reminder to not do that again. Beyond that I am drawing a blank.)
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pious1
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« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2011, 04:17:36 PM »

Dear Pious,
But the original article at the top of this thread had misinformation.   Only one parish left the UOC-EP 5 years ago.
Why are the 3 parishes that belong to the UOC-KP not named in the article?
Jake

That is a good question. I have no idea. My guess is that maybe 2 other parishes are in talks of joining the Kyivan Patriarchate. I know here in the states, some of the more ethnic Ukrainian parishes have wavered back in forth of whether or not to join the Kyivan Patriarchate as the UOCUSA left it in 1995 and joined the Greeks. My understanding is some parishes are afraid of being sued like the parish in Clifton NJ was. Even though the hierarchs lost the case, they spent a lot of money and some parishes are scared of the financial burden of a lawsuit. Also there is a differing of opinions in the parishioners of the UOCUSA parishes. Many see renouncing autocepahly and renouncing an independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church as justified to recieve cannonicalrecognition of the Greeks and becoming a jurisdiction of the Eccumenical Patriarchate. Plus many UOCUSA parishes particulary have become more multi-ethnic with more converts, many non-Ukrainians, and 3rd, 4th generation Ukrainian Americans who speak little to no Ukrainian. As a result, there is a stronger desire to become less Ukrainian and more American. God Bless those parishes as I wish them no ill will.

I know in the US there are now 16 parishes that have remained with the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Kyivan Patriarchate. These are very ethnic parishes with little to no English used in their liturgies and made up of first generation Ukrainian Immigrants and new wave immigrants from Ukraine.

I pray everyday that there will be one Ukrainian Orthodox Church and it will be recognized by the other Patriarchates. This apparently will take time and healing as it did for other jurisdictions like the Bulgarian, Serbian, ect. I just hope that neither Moscow nor Constantinople attempt to absorb the church as it did with ACROD, UOCUSA or UOC-Canada with the EP. Under the omophorion of the Eccumenical Patriachate like the UOCUSA, ACROD, and UOC-Canada means it is under the jurisdiction of the EP and is not independent. Cannonical yes, as a branch of the Eccumenical Patriachate, independent, no.

I can speak only of ACROD, but I believe this to be true of both UOCUSA and Canada. I am not aware of any interference with the internal, administrative affairs of my Diocese during the nearly 75 years it has been under the omophor of the Ecumenical Throne. To the contrary, for many years as we evolved from newly received former Greek Catholics, many of their practices were tolerated and have since faded away over the decades. (Actually I can think of one thing - one year a former Bishop, of Thrice Blessed Memory, decided to consecrate his own chrism during Holy Week. That did result in a reminder to not do that again. Beyond that I am drawing a blank.)

Well that begs the question, what does under the "omophorion of the Eccumenical Patriarch" mean?

Is Met Nicholas not considered a bishop of the Eccumenical Patriachate? As does Met Constantine, Archbishop Antony, and  Bishop Daniel of the UOCUSA?

If a new bishop is to be selected by the synods of ACROD or UOCUSA does it not have to be approved by the Eccumenical Patriachate?

If his Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew wished to appoint a Greek Bishop to either the UOCUSA or ACROD, does he not have that right as both groups are under his jurisdiction?
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« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2011, 04:20:46 PM »

Is Met Nicholas not considered a bishop of the Eccumenical Patriachate? As does Met Constantine, Archbishop Antony, and  Bishop Daniel of the UOCUSA?

They are.

Quote
If a new bishop is to be selected by the synods of ACROD or UOCUSA does it not have to be approved by the Eccumenical Patriachate?

Primates are. IDK about the rest.

Quote
If his Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew wished to appoint a Greek Bishop to either the UOCUSA or ACROD, does he not have that right as both groups are under his jurisdiction?

Bishops are elected by the Councils, not chosen by the HAH.
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pious1
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2011, 04:25:58 PM »

Is Met Nicholas not considered a bishop of the Eccumenical Patriachate? As does Met Constantine, Archbishop Antony, and  Bishop Daniel of the UOCUSA?

They are.

Quote
If a new bishop is to be selected by the synods of ACROD or UOCUSA does it not have to be approved by the Eccumenical Patriachate?

Primates are. IDK about the rest.

Quote
If his Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew wished to appoint a Greek Bishop to either the UOCUSA or ACROD, does he not have that right as both groups are under his jurisdiction?

Bishops are elected by the Councils, not chosen by the HAH.

So does Pat Bartholomew or the Holy Synod of the EP need to approve a new bishop to the UOCUSA or ACROD, the same way the Vatican would have to approve a new Bishop in an Eastern Catholic Church?
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2011, 04:34:19 PM »

Is Met Nicholas not considered a bishop of the Eccumenical Patriachate? As does Met Constantine, Archbishop Antony, and  Bishop Daniel of the UOCUSA?

They are.

Quote
If a new bishop is to be selected by the synods of ACROD or UOCUSA does it not have to be approved by the Eccumenical Patriachate?

Primates are. IDK about the rest.

Quote
If his Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew wished to appoint a Greek Bishop to either the UOCUSA or ACROD, does he not have that right as both groups are under his jurisdiction?

Bishops are elected by the Councils, not chosen by the HAH.

So does Pat Bartholomew or the Holy Synod of the EP need to approve a new bishop to the UOCUSA or ACROD, the same way the Vatican would have to approve a new Bishop in an Eastern Catholic Church?

Since both ACROD and UOCUSA are neither autocepholous or autonomous, the answer is yes - but not in the same way the Vatican would act, but in the manner that episcopal elevation and approval is done in Orthodoxy. The recent examples of the OCA regional dioceses' elections of new Bishops is analogous. A Bishop-elect was chosen at the diocesan council level and submitted to the national church Synod for approval. Just as, I might add a hypothetical UOC-Kyian diocese in the USA would not be able to ordain their own Bishops but would have to submit the same to the UOC-Kyian synod. Could such a candidate be rejected?  In theory, yes but I do not believe that the EP and her Synod could impose a Bishop on either ACROD or UOCUSA without their local consent. (I know that the ACROD diocesan by-laws would preclude this and I suspect that the UOCUSA by-laws do so as well.)  This would make the process different than the one used by the Vatican. I will refrain from any further analogies as that will reopen a previously dormant thread on the UOC-Kyiv situation and it being the time of the Nativity, I don't think that would be a good thing.
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pious1
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2011, 04:37:53 PM »

Is Met Nicholas not considered a bishop of the Eccumenical Patriachate? As does Met Constantine, Archbishop Antony, and  Bishop Daniel of the UOCUSA?

They are.

Quote
If a new bishop is to be selected by the synods of ACROD or UOCUSA does it not have to be approved by the Eccumenical Patriachate?

Primates are. IDK about the rest.

Quote
If his Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew wished to appoint a Greek Bishop to either the UOCUSA or ACROD, does he not have that right as both groups are under his jurisdiction?

Bishops are elected by the Councils, not chosen by the HAH.

So does Pat Bartholomew or the Holy Synod of the EP need to approve a new bishop to the UOCUSA or ACROD, the same way the Vatican would have to approve a new Bishop in an Eastern Catholic Church?

Since both ACROD and UOCUSA are neither autocepholous or autonomous, the answer is yes - but not in the same way the Vatican would act, but in the manner that episcopal elevation and approval is done in Orthodoxy. The recent examples of the OCA regional dioceses' elections of new Bishops is analogous. A Bishop-elect was chosen at the diocesan council level and submitted to the national church Synod for approval. Just as, I might add a hypothetical UOC-Kyian diocese in the USA would not be able to ordain their own Bishops but would have to submit the same to the UOC-Kyian synod. Could such a candidate be rejected?  In theory, yes but I do not believe that the EP and her Synod could impose a Bishop on either ACROD or UOCUSA without their local consent. This would make the process different than the one used by the Vatican. I will refrain from any further analogies as that will reopen a previously dormant thread on the UOC-Kyiv situation and it being the time of the Nativity, I don't think that would be a good thing.

No problem, I am not looking to fight, just get my facts straight. It shows that the UOCUSA again is under the Greeks and need their blessing and consent, the same way the UOC-MP is under the Russian Orthodox Church and must submit and answer to her.
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2011, 04:46:58 PM »

Is Met Nicholas not considered a bishop of the Eccumenical Patriachate? As does Met Constantine, Archbishop Antony, and  Bishop Daniel of the UOCUSA?

They are.

Quote
If a new bishop is to be selected by the synods of ACROD or UOCUSA does it not have to be approved by the Eccumenical Patriachate?

Primates are. IDK about the rest.

Quote
If his Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew wished to appoint a Greek Bishop to either the UOCUSA or ACROD, does he not have that right as both groups are under his jurisdiction?

Bishops are elected by the Councils, not chosen by the HAH.

So does Pat Bartholomew or the Holy Synod of the EP need to approve a new bishop to the UOCUSA or ACROD, the same way the Vatican would have to approve a new Bishop in an Eastern Catholic Church?

Since both ACROD and UOCUSA are neither autocepholous or autonomous, the answer is yes - but not in the same way the Vatican would act, but in the manner that episcopal elevation and approval is done in Orthodoxy. The recent examples of the OCA regional dioceses' elections of new Bishops is analogous. A Bishop-elect was chosen at the diocesan council level and submitted to the national church Synod for approval. Just as, I might add a hypothetical UOC-Kyian diocese in the USA would not be able to ordain their own Bishops but would have to submit the same to the UOC-Kyian synod. Could such a candidate be rejected?  In theory, yes but I do not believe that the EP and her Synod could impose a Bishop on either ACROD or UOCUSA without their local consent. This would make the process different than the one used by the Vatican. I will refrain from any further analogies as that will reopen a previously dormant thread on the UOC-Kyiv situation and it being the time of the Nativity, I don't think that would be a good thing.

No problem, I am not looking to fight, just get my facts straight. It shows that the UOCUSA again is under the Greeks and need their blessing and consent, the same way the UOC-MP is under the Russian Orthodox Church and must submit and answer to her.

But my friend, unlike the experience of our peoples in Europe, including Ukraine. Poland. Slovakia and in America under the MP and other Russian groups, where local customs and traditions were, and remain, supressed by Russophilisms and Russophiles, or among our Greek Catholic brethren who have been subject to Latinizing forces for centuries, the EP has never exerted any attempt to Hellenize our peoples or to impose Greek music, culture or practice in any way on ACROD and to my knowledge the UOCUSA. May you and your family enjoy the Blessings of the Nativity and enjoy Good Health in the coming New Year! Бажаю вам і вашій родині користуватися благами Різдва і насолоджуватися хорошим здоров'ям у наступаючим Новим роком!
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Jake
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« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2011, 07:10:42 PM »

I pray everyday that there will be one Ukrainian Orthodox Church and it will be recognized by the other Patriarchates. This apparently will take time and healing as it did for other jurisdictions like the Bulgarian, Serbian, ect. I just hope that neither Moscow nor Constantinople attempt to absorb the church as it did with ACROD, UOCUSA or UOC-Canada with the EP. Under the omophorion of the Eccumenical Patriachate like the UOCUSA, ACROD, and UOC-Canada means it is under the jurisdiction of the EP and is not independent. Cannonical yes, as a branch of the Eccumenical Patriachate, independent, no.

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada unlike the American Ukrainian Orthodox churches has a very different history and tradition.  There has always been one UOCC and not 3 or more as in the USA.

Our founding fathers of the UOCC in Saskatoon in 1918  never had any intention of being part of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine.  That is why our first priests were ordained by Metropolitan Germanos of the Antiochian orthodox Church in the USA.  Unlike the USA too, our priests who joined our church were Orthodox priests either from Bukovyna or from the Russian Orthodox Church.  In the USA, former Uniate priests were involved in setting up the Ukrainian Orthodox churches that came into existence and in joining the various jurisdiction.  The EP has jurisdiction over the churches in "barbarian lands" and that is where our church fits in.  We get along very weel with the Greek Orthodox in Canada.  Our church uses modern Ukrainian in the liturgy and maintains all our Ukrainian traditions and customs.  No problems at all.
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« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2011, 07:29:20 PM »

But my friend, unlike the experience of our peoples in Europe, including Ukraine. Poland. Slovakia and in America under the MP and other Russian groups, where local customs and traditions were, and remain, supressed by Russophilisms and Russophiles, or among our Greek Catholic brethren who have been subject to Latinizing forces for centuries, the EP has never exerted any attempt to Hellenize our peoples or to impose Greek music, culture or practice in any way on ACROD and to my knowledge the UOCUSA. May you and your family enjoy the Blessings of the Nativity and enjoy Good Health in the coming New Year! Бажаю вам і вашій родині користуватися благами Різдва і насолоджуватися хорошим здоров'ям у наступаючим Новим роком! 

Correct, there has never been any such attempt.  There is much freedom under the omophor of the Ecumenical Patriarch.
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« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2011, 07:37:26 PM »

No problem, I am not looking to fight, just get my facts straight. It shows that the UOCUSA again is under the Greeks and need their blessing and consent, the same way the UOC-MP is under the Russian Orthodox Church and must submit and answer to her.

In what way is the UOC of USA "under the Greeks"?  Do any of our liturgies take place in the basement of a Greek Cathedral?  The Bishops report directly to the Ecumenical Patriarch, who is Rum/Roman and a Turkish citizen.  No one is "under" any Greeks. 
 
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