Author Topic: Scottish Newbie  (Read 3538 times)

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Offline BrassMonkey

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Scottish Newbie
« on: December 07, 2010, 10:13:38 AM »
Hi folks,

Just thought I'd introduce myself as one who is in the process of moving toward Orthodoxy.

I was baptised into the Scottish Episcopal Church but am currently part of a presbyterian Church of Scotland congregation (more to do with my wife's preference than my own).

My heart could not make do with "four bare walls and a sermon", but although I wanted to return to liturgical worship, I cannot muster up much respect for the Anglican Communion as a whole. The reason for this is mainly that they seem open to a riot of opinions and beliefs, rather than holding fast to any core doctrines, including those that should surely be held by all Christians. I'm sure you've heard all this before though. :)

A thirst for liturgical worship kind of narrowed down the search- as did my dislike of doctrines of papal supremacy & infallibility. An interest in early church history also helped...

So, some months later I have finished reading Ware's "The Orthodox Church" and have started on "The Orthodox Way", as well as spending much time listening to Ancient Faith Radio- and lurking here.

I finally bit the bullet and emailed the local Orthodox priest. Following his reply, this Sunday I will go to Holy Liturgy for the first time.

*deep breath*

So: howdy! :)
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 10:20:54 AM »
Welcome to the forum!

You're on a great start, it sounds like. Reading Metropolitan Kallistos' books, researching Orthodoxy, contact with a priest, preparing to attend services. I really have nothing to suggest, just...welcome!

God bless you on your journey!
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 10:28:16 AM »

Welcome to the forum!

I'm glad to hear you will be attending Divine Liturgy this Sunday.

Just remember to relax and absorb all the new sights and sounds.

Please let us know how it goes.

Welcome, again!

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline quietmorning

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 10:42:45 AM »
Welcome!!
In His Mercy,
BethAnna

Offline Ebor

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 11:07:45 AM »
Welcome, BrassMonkey, from another Anglican who is in the U.S.

 :)

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline BrassMonkey

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 11:23:32 AM »
Thanks everyone. :) I'll let you know how it goes.

Ebor, how do you feel about where the Anglican Communion is headed? I have a great love for Anglican worship but as much as it saddens me, I despair of the AC sometimes. I really get the feeling that the captain has left the ship. Every church has its disputes, the Orthodox no less than any other; but bishops who deny the reality of the resurrection? Introducing elements of Buddhism into services? Seems like spiritual anarchy to me.

Having said that I was a buddhist for several years, in the dim and distant past, so maybe I shouldn't criticise. In the words of Willie Nelson, it's been rough and rocky travelling but I'm finally standing upright on the ground...
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Offline tuesdayschild

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 11:42:13 AM »
Welcome to the forum!

Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2010, 12:36:47 PM »
Welcome to Orthodox Scotland  :)  The native Orthodox community in Scotland is small and close, easy to get to know people and everyone is actually nice. I don't know which priest you emailed but I know most of the Orthodox priests in Scotland and they are all gems. I hope it works out well for you.

Margaret
in Edinburgh

Offline dcommini

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2010, 12:52:24 PM »
Welcome to the forum! I hope you have a wonderful journey to Orthodoxy, and hopefully we can answer any questions you may have (as well as your local priest).
N/OblSB

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Offline BrassMonkey

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2010, 01:02:36 PM »
Hi Margaret, thanks for the welcome. I'm in Edinburgh too as it happens- perhaps I will see you at some point. It was Fr John Maitland-Moir that I emailed.

dcommini, I do have a question, since you ask. :) My plan for attending the service is to stand at the back, watching what happens and trying not to do anything stupid. Am I going to get away with that or is there some greater involvement for new recruits? I gather they get offered blessed but unconsecrated bread at some point. Do I have to kiss the hand of whoever offers it to me or anything?
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Offline dcommini

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2010, 01:19:12 PM »
Hi Margaret, thanks for the welcome. I'm in Edinburgh too as it happens- perhaps I will see you at some point. It was Fr John Maitland-Moir that I emailed.

dcommini, I do have a question, since you ask. :) My plan for attending the service is to stand at the back, watching what happens and trying not to do anything stupid. Am I going to get away with that or is there some greater involvement for new recruits? I gather they get offered blessed but unconsecrated bread at some point. Do I have to kiss the hand of whoever offers it to me or anything?

The first time I attended an Orthodox Church I sat more towards the middle (they had chairs enough for most people). I did not really know what to do so I just paid attention to when the people stood and when the people sat down (the priest helped out by turning around and motioning with his hands up or down). Nothing further was expected of me until I was a catechumate, although I did try to participate as much as possible. Some Churches will have service books so you can follow along with the liturgy.

The first Church I attended (it was Greek btw) the antidoron (blessed bread not used for the Eucharist) was offered at the end of the service to everybody (Orthodox and non). It was customary to kiss the hand of the priest but I was told I did not have to until I became a catechumate. The Church I attend now (which is Antiochian and has a large convert congregation) has the antidoron offered during the Eucharist so everybody (Orthodox and non) can take it (usually I grab a piece for myself and a few pieces for my wife and daughter who are not Orthodox as of yet). It really depends on the jurisdiction you are attending. My advice would be go slowly and pay as much attention as possible. And don't forget to ask your priest!

Lastly I hope that your first Liturgy will go well. :)
N/OblSB

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Offline Alpo

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2010, 01:54:03 PM »
Since you're from Scotland you might want to know that there are loads of Scottish saints.



The Synaxis of All Saints Who Shone Forth in Scotland

Welcome to the forum!

« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 01:54:19 PM by Alpo »
Quote from: Severian
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Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 04:05:39 PM »
Edinburgh isn't my parish, I go to church in Dunblane, but I'm sure I will see you at Edinburgh some time because I go there weekdays and if there isn't a liturgy in Dunblane for whatever reason (like the wonderful snow!)

The best thing to do in the Edinburgh church is to get there before the liturgy starts and stand at the top right side near the bishop's throne (where there is also a bench and a few chairs if you need but if you're late they're all taken) if you stand at the back you will get crushed and by 11am not be able to see anything at all! It gets really busy and by the end the back is the last place you want to be. The antidoron is given by (usually) Fr John at the very end, he sits to do this (he's 85) and although you're supposed to kiss his hand and the cross sometimes the angle means you can't - he doesn't mind.

Fr John was the first Orthodox priest I met 23 years ago and he's just wonderful. The other two hieromonks, Fr Avraamij and Fr Raphael, are truly excellent for talking to and explaining things and they run informal classes on Tuesday and Wednesday nights - you couldn't be in a better place.

Margaret
in Edinburgh
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 04:10:01 PM by Margaret S. »

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2010, 04:13:46 PM »
Welcome to the forum!
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Offline Victoria

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2010, 04:14:06 PM »
Welcome! I'm too fairly new to OC and only have been attending couple of months. First time was not as strange as i thought, partially because i'm from Ukraine and so i have seen Orthodox liturgy before(sort of). It WAS confusing though-i sat in the back, and it took me several times before i started to figure out what was going on during liturgy. Don't be afraid to tell people that you are new to this and ask questions, most will be glad to explain things to you. God Bless:)
Humility and fear of God are above all virtues-Saint John Kolobos

Offline PrincessMommy

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2010, 09:18:29 PM »
welcome to the forum

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2010, 10:01:56 PM »
I live in the Antipodes, New Zealand, but I have heard that while there are not many Orthodox priests in Scotland, those that are there are all excellent.

Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2010, 04:24:30 AM »
Your blessing, Father.

It's not so long ago that we had Fr Constantine in Glasgow and Fr John from Edinburgh travelled on the bus round the country taking care of everyone else. Now we have about eight and three of them are in Edinburgh, it's luxury compared to what it was.

Margaret
in Edinburgh

Offline BrassMonkey

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2010, 04:44:42 AM »
Margaret- thanks for all that, you're a mine of information! I gathered there was only a small Orthodox presence in Scotland so I didn't expect that at all.

Alpo- Nice link. I didn't know there were so many Scottish saints, I'd heard of only a few of those. Obviously St. Andrew, St. Columba and St. Kentigern/Mungo (patron saint of my home town of Glasgow) plus one or two others. When/if I get to the stage of chrismation, do I not have to take on a saint's name?

Thanks to everyone who has posted- much appreciated. You are the first Orthodox Christians I have met (sort of) and you seem like a really nice bunch.

Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2010, 04:55:21 AM »

Alpo- Nice link. I didn't know there were so many Scottish saints, I'd heard of only a few of those.


Here is a list of places associated with Scottish and Irish Saints, etc...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-archive/message/2200

And if you search through this site you will many of their lives....

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/celt-saints
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2010, 05:39:14 AM »
Here are the lives of 112 British Saints. I haven't counted up how many are Scottish...

http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/downloads/112_LIVES_OF_THE_BRITISH_SAINTS.pdf

Offline Alpo

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2010, 05:46:02 AM »
When/if I get to the stage of chrismation, do I not have to take on a saint's name?

Different local churches have varying practices but in general you don't need to change your civilian name and if you already have a Christian name which is based on some Orthodox saint that name will also be your ecclesiastical name. Also, some jurisdictions seem to allow converts choose their patrons themselves. I don't know much about Scottish names but I'd guess that most if not all of them are already Orthodox so you don't need to worry about changing your name. There's probably some pre-Schism Orthodox saint for just about every Scottish name. :)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 05:52:10 AM by Alpo »
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2010, 12:35:29 PM »
In Dunblane Cathedral there is a section of wall inscribed with the names of all the known clergy who have served there, it starts with St Blane himself in 570 or thereabouts and goes all the way up to the present presbyterian incumbent. It's amazing how much Orthodox history Scotland has when you start looking for it. So even if your name isn't a saint's name it wouldn't be hard to find a saint associated with some place close to you, if you wanted that.

And, yes, the Orthodox presence in Scotland is small compared to the Presbyterians and the Pixies but like everything else it's concentrated between Edinburgh and Glasgow (although there are congregations elsewhere served by the priests from Edinburgh and Fr Genady from Glasgow and Aberdeen has its own Romanian church). Glasgow has three churches, all very 'ethnic', but Edinburgh has only one so everyone has to squeeze in. Last summer one of the priests said we had 27 different nationalities which is amazing and really nice.

Regards,
Margaret in
Edinburgh
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 12:38:31 PM by Margaret S. »

Offline BrassMonkey

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2010, 10:15:40 AM »
Well, I did it. Today was my first visit to an Orthodox church. Divine Liturgy on the day of St. Spyridon.

I didn't understand quite a lot of it, what with the clergy coming in and going out through various doors in the iconostasis, and parts of the liturgy sung and chanted in a language unfamiliar to my ears. Also it seemed that there was no particular beginning or end to the service, and people just came and went as they pleased.

But it was very powerful, at one point I felt quite light-headed and faint and got goose bumps all over. Never felt that before. And I loved the relaxed but reverential attitude of the congregation. Babes in arms, kids, adults and a few elderly folks all braving the ice & snow to make it in.

Truly wonderful. I will definitely be going back. Bless you all who replied with welcomes and encouragement and information. And all you lurkers out there.
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Offline mike

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2010, 10:43:58 AM »
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

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Offline Ebor

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2010, 07:53:01 PM »
Thanks everyone. :) I'll let you know how it goes.

Ebor, how do you feel about where the Anglican Communion is headed? I have a great love for Anglican worship but as much as it saddens me, I despair of the AC sometimes. I really get the feeling that the captain has left the ship. Every church has its disputes, the Orthodox no less than any other; but bishops who deny the reality of the resurrection? Introducing elements of Buddhism into services? Seems like spiritual anarchy to me.

Having said that I was a buddhist for several years, in the dim and distant past, so maybe I shouldn't criticise. In the words of Willie Nelson, it's been rough and rocky travelling but I'm finally standing upright on the ground...

Well, BrassMonkey, is there a particular part of the Anglican Communion or direction that you are thinking of here?  From the things you mention, I'd guess you're writing about the Episcopal Church (US) but I don't want to be umm 'national-centric'.   :)

However, I would point out that bishops who deny the resurrection (J.S. Spong over here) are not ignored by others nor let to speak out without response. That person is also now retired.   If the reference to Buddhism is about the Diocese of Northern Michigan and the possibility of the Rev. Kevin Thew Forrester being elected as Bishop, he did not get the consents needed. 

I do read and try to keep some track of what is happening in other parts of the Communion.  Considering where you live, you did have Richard Holloway as the Bishop of Edinburgh and then Primus of the Scottish Episcopal Church and he has ummm written and said some (trying to be diplomatic here) unusual things not to say ideas that are not representational of believing Christianity.

Using your image of the Captain of the ship, however, I do not believe that the Lord has left us.   :)

I hope that I am not sounding too touchy here and I apologize if I do.  Taking pot-shots at Anglicans has been known to happen and one may get a bit ummm sensitive. 

Ebor
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Offline dcommini

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2010, 08:03:31 PM »
Well, I did it. Today was my first visit to an Orthodox church. Divine Liturgy on the day of St. Spyridon.

I didn't understand quite a lot of it, what with the clergy coming in and going out through various doors in the iconostasis, and parts of the liturgy sung and chanted in a language unfamiliar to my ears. Also it seemed that there was no particular beginning or end to the service, and people just came and went as they pleased.

But it was very powerful, at one point I felt quite light-headed and faint and got goose bumps all over. Never felt that before. And I loved the relaxed but reverential attitude of the congregation. Babes in arms, kids, adults and a few elderly folks all braving the ice & snow to make it in.

Truly wonderful. I will definitely be going back. Bless you all who replied with welcomes and encouragement and information. And all you lurkers out there.

It can be quite hard to tell when the Divine Liturgy starts or ends unless you are very familiar with it. In my old parish people would trickle in close to the end of Orthros and keep coming in to right before the Eucharist (most would be there in time for the homily). Some would leave shortly after the Eucharist and others would stay until the end. This new parish I am at (which is Antiochian) most people arrive shortly after the start of the Divine Liturgy and stay for coffee hour.

Unfortunately, I had to duck out right after the Eucharist today as I had to work (darn military never takes a break, especially when it's snowing), which was unfortunate (did I already use that word?) since we had a visiting priest who is an Orthodox Chaplain (US Army) stationed in Germany; he came to Orthodoxy in our parish and he was home to bury his mother. I would have loved to have met him as I do not know of many Orthodox Chaplains...

Moral of the story is that things will seem very different at first, but stick with it and you will get the hang of it soon... BTW, what language was used? It might help if you can get a hold of a service book with translations...
N/OblSB

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Offline Ebor

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2010, 08:06:52 PM »
the Pixies

 ??? Just to be sure, is that a local slang term for the Anglicans?   :)

Ebor
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Offline BrassMonkey

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2010, 04:28:31 AM »
Michał- thanks for that, very helpful link. I had wondered what all the touching the ground was about too.

Ebor- I was thinking of the Anglican Communion worldwide rather than the U.S. in particular. The AC seems to be tearing itself apart sometimes. I hope you didn't feel I was taking pot-shots, as an Anglican myself (albeit currently on exile in a Presbyterian church, and investigating Orthodoxy...) I have regarded these things with dismay from the inside. As well as feeling the sting of some vicious remarks from those in other denominations.

I probably expressed myself badly with that "captain" remark; I was talking very loosely there. I believe the Lord is also at work in the Anglican Communion, but I also feel that there are those who refuse to listen to him in favour of their own agendas. It's all very sad. The Anglican church has a very special place in my heart, and should my journey to Orthodoxy continue to chrismation I suspect there may be a tearful parting from it at some point.

dcommini- I think you've hit the nail on the head there. :) I think the language would be Greek but that's just a (slightly educated) guess. But as the only Orthodox church of any kind in the area it's a real melting pot, as Margaret said.
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2010, 07:26:38 AM »
What area of Scotland are you from, BrassMonkey?

BTW, welcome to the forums!  :)

Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2010, 08:55:54 AM »
the Pixies

 ??? Just to be sure, is that a local slang term for the Anglicans?   :)

Ebor

Yes, because it's the Scottish Episcopal Church so it goes from Episkie to Pixie, if you're feeling silly :)

Margaret

Offline Ebor

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2010, 11:00:21 AM »
Ebor- I was thinking of the Anglican Communion worldwide rather than the U.S. in particular. The AC seems to be tearing itself apart sometimes. I hope you didn't feel I was taking pot-shots, as an Anglican myself (albeit currently on exile in a Presbyterian church, and investigating Orthodoxy...) I have regarded these things with dismay from the inside. As well as feeling the sting of some vicious remarks from those in other denominations.

There are difficulties within the Anglican Communion it is true, and over a number of things.  But I do not think that we're done yet. I assure you that I did not think that you were taking pot-shots at the Anglicans.  Yes, there have been some very uncharitable comments from other denominations at times.  Some have to be re-answered over and over as they can some times get repeated.  Sigh.

Quote
I probably expressed myself badly with that "captain" remark; I was talking very loosely there. I believe the Lord is also at work in the Anglican Communion, but I also feel that there are those who refuse to listen to him in favour of their own agendas. It's all very sad. The Anglican church has a very special place in my heart, and should my journey to Orthodoxy continue to chrismation I suspect there may be a tearful parting from it at some point.

It seems to me that people who have their own agendas and regard them as The Only Right Ideas/Way(tm) are found all over the place and are not limited to persons with any one particular view.  I also think it likely that many people truly do believe that they are doing things in accordance with Christian charity or belief etc and are not cynically using the religion just to further their own preferences.  It's important to see everyone as a human being after all.   :)

Should you eventually end up as EO I suspect that you won't be in the "I was never a Christian before" set nor make vicious remarks about the Anglicans.  :)

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline Ebor

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2010, 11:00:54 AM »

Yes, because it's the Scottish Episcopal Church so it goes from Episkie to Pixie, if you're feeling silly :)

Margaret

Thank you.   :)  I just wanted to be sure I understood.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

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Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2010, 02:21:45 PM »
Should you eventually end up as EO .... nor make vicious remarks about the Anglicans.  :)

Ebor

I wish people wouldn’t do that. If not for the beauty of Anglicanism (I am myself biased towards the High Church end of the spectrum but have joyful memories of frozen early morning North End/strict BCP communions in certain places) I am sure a good many of us would not be Orthodox. I suspect my own spiritual leanings would have led me to Orthodoxy eventually but I am gladder than I have words for that I was an Anglican first. The fantastic incarnational theology of the 19th century Anglo-Catholic slum priests was accessible to me from the start (to a secular Jew raised in England) and I have never regretted, and refuse to be made to regret, being an Anglican.  So I too rejoice in the fact that should BrassMonkey be beguiled by the combined charms of Fathers John and Raphael ;) and become Orthodox he will not be joining the Campaign to Trash Anglicanism.

Regards,
Margaret
in Edinburgh

Offline Ebor

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2010, 11:19:31 PM »
Thank you for those words, Margaret.  :)  It's nice to read.  The CTA can be very wearing, I'll admit. 

I am intrigued that Anglican Christianity was so accessible to you.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2010, 11:54:05 PM »
BrassMonkey -

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing with us. Keep coming back and letting us know how the journey is going. Regarding what kind of languages were being used, does the church specify who they are with as far as bishops, i.e. Russian Church Abroad, Greek, Antiochian, etc? If we know that , we can likely help you on the language thing. Was any of it in English?

Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2010, 03:48:21 AM »
parts of the liturgy sung and chanted in a language unfamiliar to my ears.

Sorry, BrassMonkey, didn't see this till AlveusLacuna mentioned language. As you know, having been, it's predominantly in English but on one Sunday a month there is a little more Greek and on another a little more Slavonic but I've lost track of which is when lately. The Lord's Prayer and the Creed are said in four languages every week: English (sung), Slavonic (sung), Greek (spoken) and Romanian (spoken). I imagine that's the point where a lot of people get lost and start frantically rummaging through the little blue books to find out what on earth is going on!

And for anyone interested, it's the Archdiocese of Thyateira (Greek) under the EP.

Regards,
Margaret

Offline BrassMonkey

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2010, 06:10:23 AM »
Quote
Ebor- Should you eventually end up as EO I suspect that you won't be in the "I was never a Christian before" set nor make vicious remarks about the Anglicans.

I can't imagine so.:)  I thought that, to generalise, Orthodoxy and Anglicanism had a fairly good dialogue between them. A bit hot and cold at times, and certainly not applicable to all individuals, but still relatively good.


Ortho_cat- I'm from Glasgow originally, but I live in Edinburgh now. Perhaps I should regard this as a first step towards the East. ;)

Alveus Lacuna- thanks for the welcome. Re: languages I guess Margaret has answered that one. No wonder I was confused!
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2010, 11:53:32 AM »
Quote
Ebor- Should you eventually end up as EO I suspect that you won't be in the "I was never a Christian before" set nor make vicious remarks about the Anglicans.

I can't imagine so.:)  I thought that, to generalise, Orthodoxy and Anglicanism had a fairly good dialogue between them. A bit hot and cold at times, and certainly not applicable to all individuals, but still relatively good.

Well, there was in the past.  However, I've been in on-line fora with EO for more than twenty years and I've seen a fair number of jabs and pot-shots and misinformation and outright errors and accusations against Anglicans.  Remarks that the Archbishop of Canterbury is really a pagan druid, just because he was inducted into the Gosedd of Bards which is a Welsh cultural society which has some ceremonial robes as garb or that we're not really Christians.  We're not perfect by a long chalk, we have problems and I'm not going to say we don't, I assure you. 

Otoh, when San Francisco, California had the terrible earthquake in 1906 and an Episcopal church was destroyed Bishop Tikhon, as I recall, gave them a chalice and paten so that they could have communion. They are still preserved as heirlooms.  I'll try and find the references to that if you're interested.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline BrassMonkey

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2011, 05:01:35 AM »
Thanks Ebor.

Hi everyone, Happy New(ish) Year and hope you had a great Christmas. I thought I'd pop my head in again and let you know what I've been up to.

I've been attending divine liturgy when I can and praying from an Orthodox prayer book a few mornings a week, other demands permitting... I've also made the decision to (ask to) become a catechumen. I've attended one of the classes at the church and was told by one of the clergy that there's no special ceremony for becoming a catechumen; the conversation was cut short so I was left wondering if that meant I was a catechumen already? That is, by virtue of wanting to become Orthodox and having attended an instructional class (which I found to be a quite profound discussion of prayer btw). I expected something more "official" would be required.

On a completely different note, I was watching a travel series on Russia (with Jonathon Dimbleby, staple of British broadcasting that he is) the other day and he mentioned something pretty disturbing about the history of the Orthodox Church there. If I remember correctly it was the 16th century and he implied that the church and state were in cahoots in what he described as an "unholy alliance"- the state controlling the people's lives and the church their souls. Apparently Solzhenitsyn said that if the church had not capitulated to the state like this, Russian history would have been incomparably more humane.

This made me think a bit. I expect that every member of Orthodox clergy is a sinner- but if a large part of the church seems to have fallen into error, how does one reconcile this with the church's claim to be infallible? I believe the Orthodox church makes this claim after all.
Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2011, 06:34:01 AM »
Happy New(ish) year to you too. On the old calendar it's only the 6th of January after all :)

My goddaughter was received a few months ago in your church and as I recall there was no ceremony for her when she originally decided to become a catechumen and I don't think I've seen/heard of one for anyone else either. You just keep going to the classes until you feel ready to make the commitment.

Best wishes,
Margaret
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 06:34:52 AM by Margaret S. »

Offline PrincessMommy

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2011, 11:12:14 AM »
Happy New(ish) year to you too. On the old calendar it's only the 6th of January after all :)

My goddaughter was received a few months ago in your church and as I recall there was no ceremony for her when she originally decided to become a catechumen and I don't think I've seen/heard of one for anyone else either. You just keep going to the classes until you feel ready to make the commitment.

Best wishes,
Margaret

There's not a ceremony, but there are prayers for the person entering the Catechumenate.  I've seen them done at the entrance to the church just before Liturgy begins (myself and my goddaughter) and I've also seen them done after a meeting with the priest during the week (my kids).

Perhaps other parishes/jurisdictions do it differently but that has been my experience. 

Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2011, 11:23:35 AM »
Happy New(ish) year to you too. On the old calendar it's only the 6th of January after all :)

My goddaughter was received a few months ago in your church and as I recall there was no ceremony for her when she originally decided to become a catechumen and I don't think I've seen/heard of one for anyone else either. You just keep going to the classes until you feel ready to make the commitment.

Best wishes,
Margaret

There's not a ceremony, but there are prayers for the person entering the Catechumenate.  I've seen them done at the entrance to the church just before Liturgy begins (myself and my goddaughter) and I've also seen them done after a meeting with the priest during the week (my kids).

Perhaps other parishes/jurisdictions do it differently but that has been my experience. 

Oh I didn't mean to imply a general rule - I guess I'm not being very clear. I actually go to to the church Brass Monkey is talking about so I was making a very specific statement as to what happens there (or doesn't happen).

Regards,
Margaret

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2011, 03:10:43 PM »
Happy New(ish) year to you too. On the old calendar it's only the 6th of January after all :)

Yeah, but the Church New Year is on September 1/14.

Offline Margaret S.

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Re: Scottish Newbie
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2011, 06:22:54 PM »
Happy New(ish) year to you too. On the old calendar it's only the 6th of January after all :)

Yeah, but the Church New Year is on September 1/14.

We're Scottish and the secular New Year is a big thing here because once upon a time (my father could remember this and he was born in 1926) Christmas was not a public holiday, people worked, but traditionally they had New Year off because the Presbyterians regarded it as safe from 'popery'. Obviously we celebrate Christmas now like everyone else but we probably still make more fuss of New Year than everyone else too. That's all :)

Margaret