Author Topic: How to consider Roman Catholics  (Read 9436 times)

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Offline Rufus

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2010, 05:15:30 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  :)

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.

Oh my!  A public attack on an priest!  Thank the Lord we are not on a Catholic forum where such attacks merit scoldings from other participants....
Martyr Syndrome.

You're the one who is incessantly self-victimizing (along with plenty of other Catholic posters here), and you're accusing him of a martyr complex?

Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2010, 05:19:02 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  :)

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.

Oh my!  A public attack on an priest!  Thank the Lord we are not on a Catholic forum where such attacks merit scoldings from other participants....
Martyr Syndrome.

You're the one who is incessantly self-victimizing (along with plenty of other Catholic posters here), and you're accusing him of a martyr complex?
Where? I have never called for a rule banning the insults of EOs agains the Christ's Church.
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #92 on: December 09, 2010, 05:36:06 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  :)

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.

Oh my!  A public attack on an priest!  Thank the Lord we are not on a Catholic forum where such attacks merit scoldings from other participants....
Martyr Syndrome.

You're the one who is incessantly self-victimizing (along with plenty of other Catholic posters here), and you're accusing him of a martyr complex?
Where? I have never called for a rule banning the insults of EOs agains the Christ's Church.

Do you remember the days on CAF when the Orthodox were forbidden to use the term "Catholic" in reference to their Church and those who did were banned?

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2010, 06:06:26 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

Ditto!

Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
Oh you meant the City-State of the Vatican. Yeah, it has a website and such. I am wondering though, if rather than Vatican Apologetics, you are talking about Catholic Apologetics. I have seen many books on Catholic apologetics, such as:



But very few apologetics for the Vatican City State. Maybe what you are saying is that Vatican often produces Catholic apologetics?

You're doing it again.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2010, 06:08:02 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

Ditto!

Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
Oh you meant the City-State of the Vatican. Yeah, it has a website and such. I am wondering though, if rather than Vatican Apologetics, you are talking about Catholic Apologetics. I have seen many books on Catholic apologetics, such as:



But very few apologetics for the Vatican City State. Maybe what you are saying is that Vatican often produces Catholic apologetics?
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism_lt/index_lt.htm
Not really apologetics. Though, if it were it would be Catholic apologetics and not Vatican apologetics.
The Vatican is a sovereign state, so it is impossible to sue it for copyright infringement. As for Catholic apologetics in the form of a catechism:
http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/5_1
http://www.pravoslavieto.com/docs/eng/Orthodox_Catechism_of_Philaret.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_1.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_2.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_3.htm

St. Peter Movila's Orthodox Confession of the Catholic Church of the East isn't available in English anymore that I have seen.
Oh, I think you are confused. You links you have provided are not Catholic apologetics. They are Eastern Orthodox apologetics.

 ::)
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2010, 06:09:14 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  :)

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.

Oh my!  A public attack on an priest!  Thank the Lord we are not on a Catholic forum where such attacks merit scoldings from other participants....

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2010, 06:09:51 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

Ditto!

Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
Oh you meant the City-State of the Vatican. Yeah, it has a website and such. I am wondering though, if rather than Vatican Apologetics, you are talking about Catholic Apologetics. I have seen many books on Catholic apologetics, such as:



But very few apologetics for the Vatican City State. Maybe what you are saying is that Vatican often produces Catholic apologetics?
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism_lt/index_lt.htm
Not really apologetics. Though, if it were it would be Catholic apologetics and not Vatican apologetics.
The Vatican is a sovereign state, so it is impossible to sue it for copyright infringement. As for Catholic apologetics in the form of a catechism:
http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/5_1
http://www.pravoslavieto.com/docs/eng/Orthodox_Catechism_of_Philaret.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_1.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_2.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_3.htm

St. Peter Movila's Orthodox Confession of the Catholic Church of the East isn't available in English anymore that I have seen.
Oh, I think you are confused. You links you have provided are not Catholic apologetics. They are Eastern Orthodox apologetics.
And yet more admission of your confusion Papist.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2010, 06:12:30 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  :)

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.

Oh my!  A public attack on an priest!  Thank the Lord we are not on a Catholic forum where such attacks merit scoldings from other participants....

Certainly, no one here is being dishonest. Especially you. Only debating/arguing how we understand/see things.
Well, we see A, then B, we understand C comes next.  If you all understand 5 comes next, well, not much we can see eye to eye on that.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #98 on: December 09, 2010, 06:15:09 PM »
This 'discussion' (I use the term loosely since this sub-forum is entitled " Orthodox-Catholic Discussion" is really embarrassing to me as a Christian. Perhaps my reply isn't OC ('OC' being an acronym, akin to 'PC', short for 'orthodox correct'), but I regard Roman Catholics as my friends, brothers, sisters and neighbors and, like me, sinners on the path to God through this life. As to their Church, I regard it with both personal affection and profound sadness as I view it as not being part of the undivided body of Christ and her Church which I believe is present in this earth in the body of our Orthodox Faith.  and...I pray for the day that we may all be as one in the fullness of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Anyone  not Roman Catholic or Orthodox who might stumble upon this 'discussion' would surely run for the hills.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2010, 06:40:35 PM »
I only ever offer obedience to legitimate authority and only then in all things but sin.
You're quite obedient to a supreme pontiff in schism/heresy, and obedient to the particulars of his heresy.

Quote
I do not think that the Orthodox Church has the legitimate authority to so poorly and falsely portray the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Yes, it's the mirror.

Quote
I am sure you would find that you have the same response to Catholics who warp and twist Orthodoxy.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Eastern_Orthodoxy.asp
or
Quote
The document considers above all the reality of the oriental Churches not in full communion with the Catholic Church and, making reference to various conciliar texts, gives them the title “particular or local Churches” and calls them sister Churches of the particular Catholic Churches because they remain united to the Catholic Church through the apostolic succession and the valid celebration of the Eucharist “through which the Church of God is built up and grows in stature.”[8] The Declaration Dominus Iesus explicitly calls them “true particular Churches.”[9]

Despite this unequivocal recognition of their “being particular Churches” and of their salvific value, the document could not ignore the wound (defectus) which they suffer specifically in their being particular Churches. For it is because of their Eucharistic vision of the Church, which stresses the reality of the particular Church united in the name of Christ through the celebration of the Eucharist and under the guidance of a Bishop, that they consider themselves complete in their particularity.[10] Consequently, given the fundamental equality among all the particular Churches and among the Bishops which preside over them, they each claim a certain internal autonomy. This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of Primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an “internal constitutive principle” of the very existence of a particular Church.[11] It will, therefore, remain necessary to emphasise that the Primacy of the Successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome, is not seen as something extraneous or merely concurrent with that of Bishops of particular Churches. Rather it must be exercised in service to the unity of the faith and of communion within the limits that proceed from divine law and from the divine and inviolable constitution of the Church contained in revelation.[12]
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_commento-responsa_en.html

Quote
I've tested that out here, so I should know.

Anyone more credible?

Quote
There is such a thing as fairness even in religious discussions however informal.
Callingn a spade a spade is quite fair.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #100 on: December 09, 2010, 06:41:58 PM »
The sad thing is, this thread wasn't even started by the OP, so all this discussion probably would have been avoided if the post was left in it's original context...(although I'm sure these sentiments would eventually surface later) :'(

Offline LBK

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #101 on: December 09, 2010, 06:46:23 PM »
Quote
I am sure you would find that you have the same response to Catholics who warp and twist Orthodoxy.  I've tested that out here, so I should know.

Interesting comment from someone who has spent much time and effort in trying to convince us Orthodox that the Immaculate Conception of Mary is consistent with Orthodox teaching. Please, EM, don't embarrass yourself further.  :angel: :-*
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline deusveritasest

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #102 on: December 09, 2010, 07:01:15 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

Ditto!

Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
Oh you meant the City-State of the Vatican. Yeah, it has a website and such. I am wondering though, if rather than Vatican Apologetics, you are talking about Catholic Apologetics. I have seen many books on Catholic apologetics, such as:



But very few apologetics for the Vatican City State. Maybe what you are saying is that Vatican often produces Catholic apologetics?
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism_lt/index_lt.htm
Not really apologetics. Though, if it were it would be Catholic apologetics and not Vatican apologetics.
The Vatican is a sovereign state, so it is impossible to sue it for copyright infringement. As for Catholic apologetics in the form of a catechism:
http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/5_1
http://www.pravoslavieto.com/docs/eng/Orthodox_Catechism_of_Philaret.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_1.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_2.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_3.htm

St. Peter Movila's Orthodox Confession of the Catholic Church of the East isn't available in English anymore that I have seen.
Oh, I think you are confused. You links you have provided are not Catholic apologetics. They are Eastern Orthodox apologetics.
And yet more admission of your confusion Papist.

He's not really confused. He's just pretending to be confused to mess with us.
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2010, 07:22:10 PM »

He's not really confused. He's just pretending to be confused to mess with us.

Well, now we're gonna mess with him! ;D :laugh:

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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #104 on: December 09, 2010, 07:23:59 PM »

He's not really confused. He's just pretending to be confused to mess with us.

Well, now we're gonna mess with him! ;D :laugh:

I declare nine days of prayer for the Papist! 
I will pray for you to St. Thomas Aquinas, Albertus Magnus, and Blessed John Duns Scotus for nine days.  ;D
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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #105 on: December 09, 2010, 07:24:42 PM »
And yet more admission of your confusion Papist.
I am only confused by the rabbit hole that is your thinking Isa.
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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #106 on: December 09, 2010, 07:25:31 PM »
He's not really confused. He's just pretending to be confused to mess with us.
What an uncharitable accusation.
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Offline theistgal

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #107 on: December 09, 2010, 07:50:20 PM »
All right, Papist, as a fellow Vaticanist I'm going to challenge you.

Why would a Papist have a problem being affiliated with the Vatican?

I have had my disagreements with my mother the Roman church, but with all her flaws, she's still my mother and I love her.  And the Vatican she rode in on.

So there. :P ;)
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #108 on: December 09, 2010, 07:52:32 PM »
He's not really confused. He's just pretending to be confused to mess with us.
What an uncharitable accusation.

I would be truly shocked if you were being honest about not understanding Isa's "Vatican" language and my "Romanist" language.
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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #109 on: December 09, 2010, 07:53:29 PM »
All right, Papist, as a fellow Vaticanist I'm going to challenge you.

Why would a Papist have a problem being affiliated with the Vatican?

I have had my disagreements with my mother the Roman church, but with all her flaws, she's still my mother and I love her.  And the Vatican she rode in on.

So there. :P ;)
I don't know of any Church called "The Vatican". That's all.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 07:54:13 PM by Papist »
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Offline theistgal

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #110 on: December 09, 2010, 07:55:28 PM »
Yeah, but since he's gonna do it anyway, why not claim it with pride?  "Nyah nyah, we're not only the true Church but we also have a whole country in Italy, with grrat cappucino and wine and stuff! Yay for us!"  Like that. :D
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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #111 on: December 09, 2010, 07:56:16 PM »
He's not really confused. He's just pretending to be confused to mess with us.
What an uncharitable accusation.

I would be truly shocked if you were being honest about not understanding Isa's "Vatican" language and my "Romanist" language.
So the Romanists are the Vatican? I guess that makes sense. The Vatican is in Rome, and people who are citizens of the Vatican could conceivably be called the Romanists. In the future when you refer to "Romanists" I will know that you are talking about people who live in the Vatican. Thank you for clearing that up.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 07:58:09 PM by Papist »
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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #112 on: December 09, 2010, 07:57:06 PM »
Yeah, but since he's gonna do it anyway, why not claim it with pride?  "Nyah nyah, we're not only the true Church but we also have a whole country in Italy, with grrat cappucino and wine and stuff! Yay for us!"  Like that. :D
LOL. I mean, I suppose they are jealous of our City State. Who knows.
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #113 on: December 09, 2010, 07:59:23 PM »
 ::)
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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #114 on: December 09, 2010, 09:32:00 PM »
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Offline deusveritasest

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #115 on: December 09, 2010, 11:15:38 PM »
::)



Need a hug?  :D

No. The only thing that would change my attitude is if you stopped playing dumb.
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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #116 on: December 09, 2010, 11:58:49 PM »
Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. ::)

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  :)

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.

Oh my!  A public attack on an priest!  Thank the Lord we are not on a Catholic forum where such attacks merit scoldings from other participants....
Martyr Syndrome.

You're the one who is incessantly self-victimizing (along with plenty of other Catholic posters here), and you're accusing him of a martyr complex?
Where? I have never called for a rule banning the insults of EOs agains the Christ's Church.

Do you remember the days on CAF when the Orthodox were forbidden to use the term "Catholic" in reference to their Church and those who did were banned?
I do remember.
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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #117 on: December 09, 2010, 11:59:31 PM »
::)



Need a hug?  :D

No. The only thing that would change my attitude is if you stopped playing dumb.
What about two hugs?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #118 on: December 10, 2010, 12:51:21 AM »
Yeah, but since he's gonna do it anyway, why not claim it with pride?  "Nyah nyah, we're not only the true Church but we also have a whole country in Italy, with grrat cappucino and wine and stuff! Yay for us!"  Like that. :D
Don't forget the museums.
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #119 on: December 10, 2010, 03:17:00 AM »

I don't know of any Church called "The Vatican". That's all.


We've been over this only a few days ago, you know.

The use of "The Vatican" is a perfectly normal manner of expression in the English language.

It is called metonymy.  Look it up.

So we say...


Buckingham Palace announces...

The White Hourse has decided...

10 Downing Street has announced...

The Phanar has said.....

 :laugh:

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #120 on: December 10, 2010, 09:16:28 AM »

I don't know of any Church called "The Vatican". That's all.


We've been over this only a few days ago, you know.

The use of "The Vatican" is a perfectly normal manner of expression in the English language.

It is called metonymy.  Look it up.

So we say...


Buckingham Palace announces...

The White Hourse has decided...

10 Downing Street has announced...

The Phanar has said.....

 :laugh:

You forgot the Kremlin! ...and Wall Street!!!! :)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 09:17:03 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline theistgal

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #121 on: December 10, 2010, 12:06:39 PM »
Is that the White Hourse of the Apocalypse? ;)
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #122 on: December 10, 2010, 01:02:24 PM »

I don't know of any Church called "The Vatican". That's all.


We've been over this only a few days ago, you know.

The use of "The Vatican" is a perfectly normal manner of expression in the English language.

It is called metonymy.  Look it up.

So we say...


Buckingham Palace announces...

The White Hourse has decided...

10 Downing Street has announced...

The Phanar has said.....

 :laugh:
Is the Greek Orthodox Church The Phanar?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #123 on: December 10, 2010, 01:08:18 PM »

I don't know of any Church called "The Vatican". That's all.


We've been over this only a few days ago, you know.

The use of "The Vatican" is a perfectly normal manner of expression in the English language.

It is called metonymy.  Look it up.

So we say...


Buckingham Palace announces...

The White Hourse has decided...

10 Downing Street has announced...

The Phanar has said.....

 :laugh:
Is the Greek Orthodox Church The Phanar?
In many ways, yes. But then do you know that the Greek Orthodox Church is?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline elijahmaria

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #124 on: December 10, 2010, 05:21:25 PM »
This 'discussion' (I use the term loosely since this sub-forum is entitled " Orthodox-Catholic Discussion" is really embarrassing to me as a Christian. Perhaps my reply isn't OC ('OC' being an acronym, akin to 'PC', short for 'orthodox correct'), but I regard Roman Catholics as my friends, brothers, sisters and neighbors and, like me, sinners on the path to God through this life. As to their Church, I regard it with both personal affection and profound sadness as I view it as not being part of the undivided body of Christ and her Church which I believe is present in this earth in the body of our Orthodox Faith.  and...I pray for the day that we may all be as one in the fullness of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Anyone  not Roman Catholic or Orthodox who might stumble upon this 'discussion' would surely run for the hills.

Thank you so much for saying this.  I'd say more, but.... 8)

Offline Wyatt

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #125 on: December 10, 2010, 05:21:25 PM »
Is the Greek Orthodox Church The Phanar?
See...I wouldn't refer to the Greek Orthodox Church as "The Phanar" either, just as I would not refer to my own Church (or appreciate anyone else referring to it) as "The Vatican." To me, both of those terms are wrong and inaccurate. The Phanar is not the entire Greek Orthodox Church just as the Vatican is not the entire [Roman] Catholic Church.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #126 on: December 11, 2010, 12:24:56 AM »
How to consider Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 12:37:28 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #127 on: December 11, 2010, 12:35:36 AM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline theistgal

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #128 on: December 11, 2010, 12:47:29 AM »
Hey, it wasn't one of us RC's  who asked the question in the first place.
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #129 on: December 11, 2010, 12:51:23 AM »
As to their Church, I regard it with both personal affection and profound sadness as I view it as not being part of the undivided body of Christ and her Church which I believe is present in this earth in the body of our Orthodox Faith. 

I wonder if you are not being a little harsh there, Podkarpatska.  :)

We all remember that Pope Benedict XIV issued a Statement in which he said that the Orthodox Church, although a "true" Church, suffers from defects.  Moscow praised this document for its honesty and how could it do otherwise since we ourselves hold the same view of Roman Catholicism, namely that it is defective.  So I think that for us the ecumenical dialogue means "speaking the truth in love" so that a process of healing may begin in the Western Churches.

Here are a few words from the recently glorified Saint Philaret, Metropolitan of Moscow and Primate of the Russian Church.  He could almost be seen as holding a "two lung" image of the Church since he see Catholicism as the ailing other half of Christianity.

You expect now that I should give judgement concerning the other half of present Christianity,'
the Metropolitan said in the concluding conversation, 'but I just simply look upon them; in part
I see how the Head and Lord of the Church heals the many deep wounds of the old serpent in
all the parts and limbs of his Body, applying now gentle, now strong, remedies, even fire and iron,
in order to soften hardness, to draw out poison, to clean wounds, to separate out malignant
growths, to restore spirit and life in the numbed and half-dead members. In this way I attest
my faith that, in the end, the power of God will triumph openly over human weakness, good
over evil, unity over division, life over death'
(ibid., p.135).

These statements of Metropolitan Saint Philaret are a beginning only. Not everything in them is clearly and fully expressed. But the question is truly put. There are many bonds, still not broken, whereby the schisms are held together in a certain unity with the Church. The whole of our attention and our will must be concentrated and directed towards removing the stubbornness of dissension. 'We seek not conquest,' says St Gregory of Nazianzen, 'but the return of our brethren, whose separation from us is tearing us apart.'

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/limits_church.htm

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #130 on: December 11, 2010, 12:55:52 AM »
Hey, it wasn't one of us RC's  who asked the question in the first place.
You do realize I was just being facetious? ;)
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Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #131 on: December 11, 2010, 01:03:07 AM »
How to consider Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)


I love them!   Our best soprano in the choir is a Roman Catholic and, until recently our best bass.  The Lebanese Catholic lady who runs Martha's Pantry round the corner feeds me once a week and so do the sisters from the Home of Compassion.  The Roman Catholic school teacher who makes her car available when needed.  The nuns who pulled someone back from a serious illness when I asked their prayers.  Of course there are a few annoying ones - the man who turns up at Liturgy and hands out the Miraculous Medal and tries to proselytise our people.  :)  But on the whole, a great bunch of people.  God bless them.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #132 on: December 11, 2010, 01:04:28 AM »
Hey, it wasn't one of us RC's  who asked the question in the first place.
You do realize I was just being facetious? ;)

I have found, to my detriment and not a few green spots, that Americans don't always pick up on facetiousness or irony.   :laugh:

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #133 on: December 11, 2010, 03:36:37 AM »
Hey, it wasn't one of us RC's  who asked the question in the first place.
You do realize I was just being facetious? ;)

I have found, to my detriment and not a few green spots, that Americans don't always pick up on facetiousness or irony.   :laugh:
That's what smileys are for. ;D
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #134 on: December 11, 2010, 04:32:47 PM »
As to their Church, I regard it with both personal affection and profound sadness as I view it as not being part of the undivided body of Christ and her Church which I believe is present in this earth in the body of our Orthodox Faith. 

I wonder if you are not being a little harsh there, Podkarpatska.  :)

We all remember that Pope Benedict XIV issued a Statement in which he said that the Orthodox Church, although a "true" Church, suffers from defects.  Moscow praised this document for its honesty and how could it do otherwise since we ourselves hold the same view of Roman Catholicism, namely that it is defective.  So I think that for us the ecumenical dialogue means "speaking the truth in love" so that a process of healing may begin in the Western Churches.

Here are a few words from the recently glorified Saint Philaret, Metropolitan of Moscow and Primate of the Russian Church.  He could almost be seen as holding a "two lung" image of the Church since he see Catholicism as the ailing other half of Christianity.

You expect now that I should give judgement concerning the other half of present Christianity,'
the Metropolitan said in the concluding conversation, 'but I just simply look upon them; in part
I see how the Head and Lord of the Church heals the many deep wounds of the old serpent in
all the parts and limbs of his Body, applying now gentle, now strong, remedies, even fire and iron,
in order to soften hardness, to draw out poison, to clean wounds, to separate out malignant
growths, to restore spirit and life in the numbed and half-dead members. In this way I attest
my faith that, in the end, the power of God will triumph openly over human weakness, good
over evil, unity over division, life over death'
(ibid., p.135).

These statements of Metropolitan Saint Philaret are a beginning only. Not everything in them is clearly and fully expressed. But the question is truly put. There are many bonds, still not broken, whereby the schisms are held together in a certain unity with the Church. The whole of our attention and our will must be concentrated and directed towards removing the stubbornness of dissension. 'We seek not conquest,' says St Gregory of Nazianzen, 'but the return of our brethren, whose separation from us is tearing us apart.'

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/limits_church.htm


Thank you Father. I concur with the sentiments of St. Philaret . I was a tad harsh in my choice of words as upon re-reading them, I see that they don't really follow overall thoughts on the subject.