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Author Topic: How to consider Roman Catholics  (Read 7558 times) Average Rating: 0
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Rufus
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« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2010, 05:37:24 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh

I expect you'd like us to take the distortions of what we believe and say thank you?

Ok.

Thank you for distorting what I believe as a Catholic and what my Church teaches.  Thank you for seeing me as heterodox.  

In Christ,

M.

When you insist that we believe all the same things as you do but just don't know it, someone's belifs are going to inevitably get distorted.

And, as far as I know, it's not a distortion to say that you believe communion with Rome is a crucial unity factor in the Church. Hence, Romanists.

If I go onto a Roman Catholic furum, I will inevitably be told by most people, if not everyone, that the Orthodox Church is schismatic. That fact that we do not call ourselves schismatics has no bearing on whether we actually are. Arians did not call themselves heretics, but that was still an accurate description of them. The fact that you do not call yourselves Romanists has no bearing in whether you actually are.

You can clarify what you believe all you want, but you have no right to insist that everyone agree with you.
But from what I understand, there is either no such group called "The Romanists" or they are a super secret shadow organization to which Deusveritasest belongs. Why do I suspect that he belongs to this group? Because he is so insistent on hiding the identity of the Romanists.

No one on this forum is allowed to say "Arian" anymore. There is no group that ever self-identified as "Arians."
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« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2010, 05:41:34 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh

I expect you'd like us to take the distortions of what we believe and say thank you?

Ok.

Thank you for distorting what I believe as a Catholic and what my Church teaches.  Thank you for seeing me as heterodox.  

In Christ,

M.

When you insist that we believe all the same things as you do but just don't know it, someone's belifs are going to inevitably get distorted.

And, as far as I know, it's not a distortion to say that you believe communion with Rome is a crucial unity factor in the Church. Hence, Romanists.

If I go onto a Roman Catholic furum, I will inevitably be told by most people, if not everyone, that the Orthodox Church is schismatic. That fact that we do not call ourselves schismatics has no bearing on whether we actually are. Arians did not call themselves heretics, but that was still an accurate description of them. The fact that you do not call yourselves Romanists has no bearing in whether you actually are.

You can clarify what you believe all you want, but you have no right to insist that everyone agree with you.
But from what I understand, there is either no such group called "The Romanists" or they are a super secret shadow organization to which Deusveritasest belongs. Why do I suspect that he belongs to this group? Because he is so insistent on hiding the identity of the Romanists.

No one on this forum is allowed to say "Arian" anymore. There is no group that ever self-identified as "Arians."
Really? Now you are comaparing a group that historical existed and the super-secret "Romanists"?

I suspect I have found the identity of the Romanists:
"The Queen, the Rothchilds, the Gettys,
                         the Vatican, and Colonel Sanders"
This guy was alot of help:
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« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2010, 05:45:35 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh

I expect you'd like us to take the distortions of what we believe and say thank you?

Ok.

Thank you for distorting what I believe as a Catholic and what my Church teaches.  Thank you for seeing me as heterodox.  

In Christ,

M.

When you insist that we believe all the same things as you do but just don't know it, someone's belifs are going to inevitably get distorted.

And, as far as I know, it's not a distortion to say that you believe communion with Rome is a crucial unity factor in the Church. Hence, Romanists.

If I go onto a Roman Catholic furum, I will inevitably be told by most people, if not everyone, that the Orthodox Church is schismatic. That fact that we do not call ourselves schismatics has no bearing on whether we actually are. Arians did not call themselves heretics, but that was still an accurate description of them. The fact that you do not call yourselves Romanists has no bearing in whether you actually are.

You can clarify what you believe all you want, but you have no right to insist that everyone agree with you.
But from what I understand, there is either no such group called "The Romanists" or they are a super secret shadow organization to which Deusveritasest belongs. Why do I suspect that he belongs to this group? Because he is so insistent on hiding the identity of the Romanists.

No one on this forum is allowed to say "Arian" anymore. There is no group that ever self-identified as "Arians."
Really? Now you are comaparing a group that historical existed and the super-secret "Romanists"?

Find me an Arian document that identifies them as Arians.
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« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2010, 06:42:52 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh

I expect you'd like us to take the distortions of what we believe and say thank you?

Ok.

Thank you for distorting what I believe as a Catholic and what my Church teaches.  Thank you for seeing me as heterodox.  

In Christ,

M.

When you insist that we believe all the same things as you do but just don't know it, someone's belifs are going to inevitably get distorted.

And, as far as I know, it's not a distortion to say that you believe communion with Rome is a crucial unity factor in the Church. Hence, Romanists.

If I go onto a Roman Catholic furum, I will inevitably be told by most people, if not everyone, that the Orthodox Church is schismatic. That fact that we do not call ourselves schismatics has no bearing on whether we actually are. Arians did not call themselves heretics, but that was still an accurate description of them. The fact that you do not call yourselves Romanists has no bearing in whether you actually are.

You can clarify what you believe all you want, but you have no right to insist that everyone agree with you.
But from what I understand, there is either no such group called "The Romanists" or they are a super secret shadow organization to which Deusveritasest belongs. Why do I suspect that he belongs to this group? Because he is so insistent on hiding the identity of the Romanists.

No one on this forum is allowed to say "Arian" anymore. There is no group that ever self-identified as "Arians."
Really? Now you are comaparing a group that historical existed and the super-secret "Romanists"?

Find me an Arian document that identifies them as Arians.
What is your point? Do you see any Arians around here to personal offend?
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« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2010, 06:44:07 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh

I expect you'd like us to take the distortions of what we believe and say thank you?

Ok.

Thank you for distorting what I believe as a Catholic and what my Church teaches.  Thank you for seeing me as heterodox.  

In Christ,

M.

When you insist that we believe all the same things as you do but just don't know it, someone's belifs are going to inevitably get distorted.

And, as far as I know, it's not a distortion to say that you believe communion with Rome is a crucial unity factor in the Church. Hence, Romanists.

If I go onto a Roman Catholic furum, I will inevitably be told by most people, if not everyone, that the Orthodox Church is schismatic. That fact that we do not call ourselves schismatics has no bearing on whether we actually are. Arians did not call themselves heretics, but that was still an accurate description of them. The fact that you do not call yourselves Romanists has no bearing in whether you actually are.

You can clarify what you believe all you want, but you have no right to insist that everyone agree with you.
But from what I understand, there is either no such group called "The Romanists" or they are a super secret shadow organization to which Deusveritasest belongs. Why do I suspect that he belongs to this group? Because he is so insistent on hiding the identity of the Romanists.

No one on this forum is allowed to say "Arian" anymore. There is no group that ever self-identified as "Arians."
Really? Now you are comaparing a group that historical existed and the super-secret "Romanists"?

Find me an Arian document that identifies them as Arians.
Do you see any Arians on this forum to personally offend? That being said, I am not saying that the use of the term "Romanists" should be prohibted on this forum. I just have no idea who you are talking about because there is no such group, unless of course, you mean Deusveritasest's super-secret shadow organization.
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« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2010, 07:25:48 PM »

Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. To me this means that where the Church is, there is the fullness of dogmatic truth. I do not accept Elijahmaria's claim that there are no real dogmatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, chiefly because to do so would be to reject the consensus of the Holy Fathers on the issue.

And yet most of the posters on here accept that there are no real dogmatic differences between the Orthodox and the Mono(Mia)physites. I'm just pointing out how selective everyone's being. At least the Roman Catholics actually accept Chalcedon.

Oh come now. Even I, one of the most Anti-Chalcedonian posters on here, accept that the two of us have far more in common than you do with the Romanists. The fact that we do not pay lip service to Chalcedon is a rather minor difference compared to all the deviations of Rome.
There's that shadow organization again.

Stop trying to be deceptive. You know exactly what I mean.
What an uncharitable accusation. I am not being deceptive. Just confused. I know of no group of people that call themselves "The Romanists". Is it like a new superhero team? You know, like the Justice Leaguie or The Avengers?


You knew it was coming.  Grin
I can see it now! Yay! Interestingly enough, Superman is my favorite super hero.
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« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2010, 08:46:21 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!
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« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2010, 08:48:43 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes
As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

The problem is not that we distort your teachings, but rather that we understand them even better than you; you are not willing to own up to them.

Actually, you individually are better at really holding to your church's dogma than many others.

Mary, on the other hand....

I very much believe that the two of you do not believe the same thing about the filioque.
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« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2010, 08:50:09 PM »

What an uncharitable accusation. I am not being deceptive. Just confused. I know of no group of people that call themselves "The Romanists".

More attempts at being deceptive.

But you're not fooling me.

Yes, it is true that there is no group which self-identifies by the phrase.

In spite of that, however, I am confident that you know which group I am referring to by it.
How can you be so confident when you refuse to tell me who this group is?

Because I have told you about a dozen times already.
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« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2010, 09:03:46 PM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?
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« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2010, 09:09:35 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
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« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2010, 10:26:32 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.
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« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2010, 10:27:02 PM »

What an uncharitable accusation. I am not being deceptive. Just confused. I know of no group of people that call themselves "The Romanists".

More attempts at being deceptive.

But you're not fooling me.

Yes, it is true that there is no group which self-identifies by the phrase.

In spite of that, however, I am confident that you know which group I am referring to by it.
How can you be so confident when you refuse to tell me who this group is?

Because I have told you about a dozen times already.
When? Where?
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« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2010, 10:27:54 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!
Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
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« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2010, 10:30:50 PM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.
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« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2010, 10:36:55 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!
Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
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« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2010, 10:41:26 PM »

It astounds me that whenever someone on this forum disagrees with Rome, every catholic poster here jumps on it as if that person had no right to say so. Is it the "big powerful Church" mentality? Huh

I expect you'd like us to take the distortions of what we believe and say thank you?

Ok.

Thank you for distorting what I believe as a Catholic and what my Church teaches.  Thank you for seeing me as heterodox.  

In Christ,

M.

When you insist that we believe all the same things as you do but just don't know it, someone's belifs are going to inevitably get distorted.

And, as far as I know, it's not a distortion to say that you believe communion with Rome is a crucial unity factor in the Church. Hence, Romanists.

If I go onto a Roman Catholic furum, I will inevitably be told by most people, if not everyone, that the Orthodox Church is schismatic. That fact that we do not call ourselves schismatics has no bearing on whether we actually are. Arians did not call themselves heretics, but that was still an accurate description of them. The fact that you do not call yourselves Romanists has no bearing in whether you actually are.

You can clarify what you believe all you want, but you have no right to insist that everyone agree with you.
But from what I understand, there is either no such group called "The Romanists" or they are a super secret shadow organization to which Deusveritasest belongs. Why do I suspect that he belongs to this group? Because he is so insistent on hiding the identity of the Romanists.

No one on this forum is allowed to say "Arian" anymore. There is no group that ever self-identified as "Arians."
Really? Now you are comaparing a group that historical existed and the super-secret "Romanists"?

Find me an Arian document that identifies them as Arians.
Do you see any Arians on this forum to personally offend? That being said, I am not saying that the use of the term "Romanists" should be prohibted on this forum. I just have no idea who you are talking about because there is no such group, unless of course, you mean Deusveritasest's super-secret shadow organization.

It would be immoral to offend Arians behind their back. I do not use the term "Romanist" because it is pejorative, but I'm just saying that it's really not that bad and it is by no means inaccurate. I don't know why you have to argue every single time someone says something you don't like.
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« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2010, 10:45:59 PM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.
That is what the Vatican teaches. Whether its followers believe it or not, that's between them until they come to us to be received by the Catholic Church to profess the Orthodox Fatih (and hence say the above renunciations).
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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
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« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2010, 10:49:01 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.
It's the Vatican's fault, for not giving out the decodeer key that evidently some here have.
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2010, 10:50:45 PM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.

You are right.   A lot of modern day Catholic are heretics and reject some of their Church's doctrines.  Catholic rejection applies to both morals (contraception and divorce/remarriage) and to faith issues such as we are discussing here, those concerning the Pope.

Just to take one example from the renunciations... "Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils?"

Now Catholic dogmatic teaching is the opposite.  The Pope is superior to all Councils.  Without him they have no authority.  No Council has the authority to judge the Vicar of Christ. Do you see why this must be renounced by any Roman Catholic coming into the Church?


"There never is an ecumenical council which is not confirmed
or at least recognized as such by Peter's successor. And it is
the prerogative of the Roman Pontiff to convoke such councils,
to preside over them and to confirm them."
- Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium: 22
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« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2010, 10:54:26 PM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.
That is what the Vatican teaches. Whether its followers believe it or not, that's between them until they come to us to be received by the Catholic Church to profess the Orthodox Fatih (and hence say the above renunciations).

Is it?

1) the pope isn't head of the church, the way this is implied. He's the Vicar of Christ to give human leadership to the church.

2) they don't claim the bishops aren't the heirs of the Apostles, only that Peter was the chief for human leadership

3) the popes aren't above ecumenical councils, they are able to be infallible however on certain criteria, but the heretic popes are debatable  
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« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2010, 10:59:18 PM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.

You are right.   A lot of modern day Catholic are heretics and reject some of their Church's doctrines.  Catholic rejection applies to both morals (contraception and divorce/remarriage) and to faith issues such as we are discussing here, those concerning the Pope.

Just to take one example from the renunciations... "Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils?"

Now Catholic dogmatic teaching is the opposite.  The Pope is superior to all Councils.  Without him they have no authority.  No Council has the authority to judge the Vicar of Christ. Do you see why this must be renounced by any Roman Catholic coming into the Church?


"There never is an ecumenical council which is not confirmed
or at least recognized as such by Peter's successor. And it is
the prerogative of the Roman Pontiff to convoke such councils,
to preside over them and to confirm them."
- Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium: 22

I see what you mean, Father.

But I've also seen it explained that this doesn't place him above the council. He merely officially calls them as chief, and confirms them as chief. And for total ecumenism of the bishops.
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« Reply #67 on: December 09, 2010, 12:09:16 AM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.
That is what the Vatican teaches. Whether its followers believe it or not, that's between them until they come to us to be received by the Catholic Church to profess the Orthodox Fatih (and hence say the above renunciations).

Is it?

1) the pope isn't head of the church, the way this is implied. He's the Vicar of Christ to give human leadership to the church.
The Vatican has taught us at sword point what it mean by this.
you might want to argue with his holiness:
Quote
Pope Benedict XIV

“But whatever can be said about this controverted point of ecclesiastical learning, it is sufficient for us to be able to affirm that the commemoration of the Roman Pontiff in the Mass as well as the prayers said for him in the Sacrifice are considered to be, and are a certain declarative sign, by which the same Pontiff is recognized as the head of the Church, the Vicar of Christ, and the Successor of Saint Peter, and becomes of profession of a mind and will firmly adhering to Catholic unity; as Christian Lupus correctly indicates, writing on the councils (Tom. 4. Editionis Bruxell. pag. 422): This commemoration is the supreme and most distinguished kind of communion.” Nor is this any less proven by the authority of Ivo Flaviniacensis (in Chronicle, p. 228) where it reads: “Let him know that he separates himself from the communion of the whole world, whoever does not mention the name of the Pope in the Canon, for whatever reason of dissension; nor [by the authority of] the well-known Alcuin, who, in his book De Divinis Officiis (chap. 12) wrote this: “ It is certain, as Blessed Pelagius teaches, that those who, for whatever reason of dissension, do not observe the custom of mentioning the name of the Apostolic Pontiff in the sacred mysteries, are separated from the communion of the whole world.” This fact is further proven by a more severe statement of the Supreme Pontiff Pelagius II, who held the Apostolic throne in the sixth century of the Church, and who in his letter contained in the Labbeana Collectio Conciliorum (Tome 5, col 794 sq. and col 810)left this in writing concerning our subject: I am shocked at your separation from the whole Church, which I cannot tolerate; for when blessed Augustine, mindful of Our Lord’s words which placed the foundation of the Church in Apostolic Sees, says that he is in schism whosoever shall separate himself from the authority of or communion with those who preside in these same Sees, and who does not publicly profess that there is no other Church than that which is established in the pontifical roots of the Apostolic Sees, how can you not esteem yourselves to be cut off from the communion of the whole world, if you withhold the mention of my name in the sacred mysteries, as is the custom, in whom, though unworthy, you see at the present time the strength of the Apostolic See through the succession of the episcopate?”
This has also been reiterated lately:
From this much longer review of the new interview/book with BXVI:

Quote
Backtracking from Dominus Iesus?  Discussing the conciliar language of particular churches, the pope notes that "the Eastern Churches are genuine particular churches, although they are not in communion with the pope. In this sense, unity with the pope is not constitutive for the particular church" (89; my emphasis)! When I have time I'll have to check this (especially the word "constitutive") against Dominus Iesus and also the 1992 declaration on the Church as communio because it sounds like the pope is introducing an important clarification or nuance here.... 
Sounds no different from Dominus Iesus:

17.  Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him. The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches. Therefore, the Church of Christ is present and operative also in these Churches, even though they lack full communion with the Catholic Church, since they do not accept the Catholic doctrine of the Primacy, which, according to the will of God, the Bishop of Rome objectively has and exercises over the entire Church.
I've heard it explained by the Vatican's priests that we are like a puzzle that has only the edge pieces but are missing the center because we "don't have the pope," and other such nonsense. In other words, "it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church."

Quote
2) they don't claim the bishops aren't the heirs of the Apostles, only that Peter was the chief for human leadership

They claim that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince, who alone held the keys to the kingdom, contradicting the Scriptures and the Fathers on the Council of Jerusalem, giving St. James' presidency to St. Peter.  They deny that any of their four patriarchs of Antioch are successors of St. Peter as the Bishop of Rome, who they hold alone is his successor.  They claim the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles, claiming that they must receive their pallium from the supreme pontiff.  Lumen Gentium and their canon law are quite specific that no bishop or group of bishops may act without their "head," the "Roman [supreme] Pontiff."

Quote
3) the popes aren't above ecumenical councils, they are able to be infallible however on certain criteria, but the heretic popes are debatable  
Father Ambrose has answered this, I'll just add their canon law on Ecumenical Councils, which I've posted several times.
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« Reply #68 on: December 09, 2010, 12:18:56 AM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.

You are right.   A lot of modern day Catholic are heretics and reject some of their Church's doctrines.  Catholic rejection applies to both morals (contraception and divorce/remarriage) and to faith issues such as we are discussing here, those concerning the Pope.

Just to take one example from the renunciations... "Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils?"

Now Catholic dogmatic teaching is the opposite.  The Pope is superior to all Councils.  Without him they have no authority.  No Council has the authority to judge the Vicar of Christ. Do you see why this must be renounced by any Roman Catholic coming into the Church?


"There never is an ecumenical council which is not confirmed
or at least recognized as such by Peter's successor. And it is
the prerogative of the Roman Pontiff to convoke such councils,
to preside over them and to confirm them."
- Vatican Council II, Lumen Gentium: 22

I see what you mean, Father.

But I've also seen it explained that this doesn't place him above the council. He merely officially calls them as chief, and confirms them as chief. And for total ecumenism of the bishops.
The General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union performed a similar role.  That was not new: the predecessor of Pope Benedict XVI of the Vatican as supreme pontiff, Augustus, only claimed to be first citizen. No one was fooled.
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« Reply #69 on: December 09, 2010, 01:05:15 AM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes
As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

The problem is not that we distort your teachings, but rather that we understand them even better than you; you are not willing to own up to them.

 laugh laugh laugh laugh

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« Reply #70 on: December 09, 2010, 01:05:17 AM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.

 laugh laugh laugh

Yep.  That would be the problem.  I find that I would have difficulty recanting things that I am not asked to believe by my own Church in the first place.

Perhaps if the formulas were adjusted to reflect what Catholics actually believe I'd have to take another look...

M.
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« Reply #71 on: December 09, 2010, 01:05:19 AM »

Quote
How to consider Roman Catholics

Consider them friends, unless they're not. And don't poke them with a stick, they have an irrational dislike for that sort of thing. Oh, one other thing, when you are in close proximity, don't get caught wearing cologne that smells like cabbage, they don't like that either.
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« Reply #72 on: December 09, 2010, 09:23:02 AM »

Quote
How to consider Roman Catholics

Consider them friends, unless they're not. And don't poke them with a stick, they have an irrational dislike for that sort of thing. Oh, one other thing, when you are in close proximity, don't get caught wearing cologne that smells like cabbage, they don't like that either.

Oh, I don't know about that cabbage thing...I think that my Polish, Slovak, Ukrainian and Byzantine Catholic neighbors from the old 'hood would take exception to that more than anything posted on the thread! laugh
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« Reply #73 on: December 09, 2010, 09:30:14 AM »

Find me an Arian document that identifies them as Arians.

http://arian-catholic.org/

 Smiley
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« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2010, 12:10:01 PM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.

 laugh laugh laugh

Yep.  That would be the problem.  I find that I would have difficulty recanting things that I am not asked to believe by my own Church in the first place.

Perhaps if the formulas were adjusted to reflect what Catholics actually believe I'd have to take another look...
If they don't say what the Vatican teaches, then you should have no problem anathematizing such opinions, now should you?

When I renounced the Lutheran sacramental union, I did so out of obedience, because I didn't think it was an accurate portrayal. Only in hindsight did I see how spot on it was.
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« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2010, 12:20:25 PM »

Threads like this make me long for the good ol' days of atheism. Grin
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« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2010, 12:44:14 PM »

Threads like this make me long for the good ol' days of atheism. Grin

and this...

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31925.msg504560.html#msg504560
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« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2010, 01:12:20 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!
Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
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« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2010, 01:17:22 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!
Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
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« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2010, 01:22:04 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!

Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
Oh you meant the City-State of the Vatican. Yeah, it has a website and such. I am wondering though, if rather than Vatican Apologetics, you are talking about Catholic Apologetics. I have seen many books on Catholic apologetics, such as:



But very few apologetics for the Vatican City State. Maybe what you are saying is that Vatican often produces Catholic apologetics?
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« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2010, 01:25:07 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!

Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
Oh you meant the City-State of the Vatican. Yeah, it has a website and such. I am wondering though, if rather than Vatican Apologetics, you are talking about Catholic Apologetics. I have seen many books on Catholic apologetics, such as:



But very few apologetics for the Vatican City State. Maybe what you are saying is that Vatican often produces Catholic apologetics?
So it claims.
Quote
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism_lt/index_lt.htm
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 01:31:30 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2010, 01:31:15 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!

Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
Oh you meant the City-State of the Vatican. Yeah, it has a website and such. I am wondering though, if rather than Vatican Apologetics, you are talking about Catholic Apologetics. I have seen many books on Catholic apologetics, such as:



But very few apologetics for the Vatican City State. Maybe what you are saying is that Vatican often produces Catholic apologetics?
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism_lt/index_lt.htm
Not really apologetics. Though, if it were it would be Catholic apologetics and not Vatican apologetics.
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« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2010, 01:46:21 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!

Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
Oh you meant the City-State of the Vatican. Yeah, it has a website and such. I am wondering though, if rather than Vatican Apologetics, you are talking about Catholic Apologetics. I have seen many books on Catholic apologetics, such as:



But very few apologetics for the Vatican City State. Maybe what you are saying is that Vatican often produces Catholic apologetics?
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism_lt/index_lt.htm
Not really apologetics. Though, if it were it would be Catholic apologetics and not Vatican apologetics.
The Vatican is a sovereign state, so it is impossible to sue it for copyright infringement. As for Catholic apologetics in the form of a catechism:
http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/5_1
http://www.pravoslavieto.com/docs/eng/Orthodox_Catechism_of_Philaret.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_1.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_2.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_3.htm

St. Peter Movila's Orthodox Confession of the Catholic Church of the East isn't available in English anymore that I have seen.
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #83 on: December 09, 2010, 02:01:08 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear one more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

Ditto!

Well, maybe if you all came back to the Church, then you wouldn't be experiencing the psychological dissonance that is making you feel so ill.
You mean the Vatican's apologetics?
A hill in Rome has apologetics?
Sure. Even has its own official website:
http://www.vatican.va/
Oh you meant the City-State of the Vatican. Yeah, it has a website and such. I am wondering though, if rather than Vatican Apologetics, you are talking about Catholic Apologetics. I have seen many books on Catholic apologetics, such as:



But very few apologetics for the Vatican City State. Maybe what you are saying is that Vatican often produces Catholic apologetics?
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism_lt/index_lt.htm
Not really apologetics. Though, if it were it would be Catholic apologetics and not Vatican apologetics.
The Vatican is a sovereign state, so it is impossible to sue it for copyright infringement. As for Catholic apologetics in the form of a catechism:
http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/5_1
http://www.pravoslavieto.com/docs/eng/Orthodox_Catechism_of_Philaret.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_1.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_2.htm
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/law_of_god_slobodskoy_3.htm

St. Peter Movila's Orthodox Confession of the Catholic Church of the East isn't available in English anymore that I have seen.
Oh, I think you are confused. You links you have provided are not Catholic apologetics. They are Eastern Orthodox apologetics.
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« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2010, 03:26:38 PM »


 As long as Orthodoxy tries to force me to recant anything that I believe to be a part of revelation, then I will remain where I am.


Dear Mary,

If you ever wanted to join the Church, no force would be used against you.  Instead you would be asked if you renounce certain Roman Catholic teaching.  It's entirely up to you to either say Yes! and join the Church or say No! and remain a Roman/Ruthenian Catholic and go home for a cup of tea.  But there is no force used..

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that it does not suffice to confess our Lord Jesus Christ as the head of the Universal Church; and that a man, to wit, the Bishop of Rome, can be the head of Christ's Body, the Universal Church?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief that the holy Apostles did not receive from our Lord equal spiritual authority, but that the holy Apostle Peter was their Prince; and that the Bishop of Rome alone is his successor; and that the Bishops of Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch and others are not, equally with the Bishop of Rome, successors of the Apostles?

..........Do you renounce the erroneous belief of those who think that the Pope of Rome is superior to the Ecumenical Councils,  and infallible in faith, notwithstanding the fact that several of the Popes have been heretics, and condemned as such by the Councils?

Except, I don't think that's what Catholics believe.

 laugh laugh laugh

Yep.  That would be the problem.  I find that I would have difficulty recanting things that I am not asked to believe by my own Church in the first place.

Perhaps if the formulas were adjusted to reflect what Catholics actually believe I'd have to take another look...
If they don't say what the Vatican teaches, then you should have no problem anathematizing such opinions, now should you?

When I renounced the Lutheran sacramental union, I did so out of obedience, because I didn't think it was an accurate portrayal. Only in hindsight did I see how spot on it was.

I only ever offer obedience to legitimate authority and only then in all things but sin.

I do not think that the Orthodox Church has the legitimate authority to so poorly and falsely portray the teachings of the Catholic Church.  I am sure you would find that you have the same response to Catholics who warp and twist Orthodoxy.  I've tested that out here, so I should know.

There is such a thing as fairness even in religious discussions however informal.

Mary
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« Reply #85 on: December 09, 2010, 04:25:31 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.

Oh my!  A public attack on an priest!  Thank the Lord we are not on a Catholic forum where such attacks merit scoldings from other participants....
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« Reply #86 on: December 09, 2010, 04:33:30 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.

Oh my!  A public attack on an priest!  Thank the Lord we are not on a Catholic forum where such attacks merit scoldings from other participants....

Certainly, no one here is being dishonest. Especially you. Only debating/arguing how we understand/see things.
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I'm going to need this.
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« Reply #87 on: December 09, 2010, 04:33:59 PM »

Threads like this make me long for the good ol' days of atheism. Grin

I'm having fun.
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« Reply #88 on: December 09, 2010, 04:42:39 PM »

Quote
How to consider Roman Catholics

Consider them friends, unless they're not. And don't poke them with a stick, they have an irrational dislike for that sort of thing. Oh, one other thing, when you are in close proximity, don't get caught wearing cologne that smells like cabbage, they don't like that either.

Oh, I don't know about that cabbage thing...I think that my Polish, Slovak, Ukrainian and Byzantine Catholic neighbors from the old 'hood would take exception to that more than anything posted on the thread! laugh

I stand corrected!  Grin
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« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2010, 05:03:27 PM »

Yes, we as the Orthodox have no clue what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Can the RC give it a rest? I  am Orthodox because I understand what the RC teaches and I reject those teachings. If I hear on more catholic claim we "just don't understand their faith" I'm going to puke. Seriously. Roll Eyes

As soon as EOs give lying about what we believe a rest.  Smiley

The Roman Catholics have this peculiar idea that others do not understand them,... But the Roman Catholic Church spends multi millions of dollars trying to communicate its faith and convert people.  It prints thousands of books every year on every imaginable Roman Catholic topic.

Is this really all a colossal failure? a colossal waste of money?   Really , dear Catholic brothers and sisters, if you cannot communicate your faith clearly, then whose fault is that?
Your fault for being dishonest.

Oh my!  A public attack on an priest!  Thank the Lord we are not on a Catholic forum where such attacks merit scoldings from other participants....
Martyr Syndrome.
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