Author Topic: How to consider Roman Catholics  (Read 8692 times)

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Offline biro

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #135 on: December 12, 2010, 12:16:30 AM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(
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Offline lubeltri

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #136 on: December 12, 2010, 12:25:10 AM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)

Offline biro

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #137 on: December 12, 2010, 12:36:09 AM »
Oh dear  :-[

This is going to be one of those things, isn't it.
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Online Alveus Lacuna

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #138 on: December 12, 2010, 01:25:02 AM »
Look at all the fruitful dialog that my initial comment generated! Glory to God!  :)

Online PeterTheAleut

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #139 on: December 12, 2010, 01:40:19 AM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)
I'm glad you see the humor in my tongue-in-cheek little quip. :laugh:
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #140 on: December 12, 2010, 01:48:31 AM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)

There is more than one aspect to our obsession and paranoia.  We are afraid of you.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg505749/topicseen.html#msg505749
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 02:06:05 AM by Irish Hermit »

Offline theistgal

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #141 on: December 12, 2010, 01:51:08 AM »
Peter, I like a good joke as much as anyone else, but to be honest I didn't take it as such. My apologies as I see your intent now. But perhaps it's because others here have posted similar comments but NOT as jokes - sometimes it's hard to tell. ;)
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Offline Wyatt

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #142 on: December 12, 2010, 08:17:01 AM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)
Exactly.


While we're at it....

Dear Lord,

Please make the evangelicals not consider us as well.

Amen.

Offline Jakub

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #143 on: December 12, 2010, 11:44:45 PM »
The Vatican is actually a Borg collective, get ready for assimilation...
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #144 on: December 13, 2010, 12:01:48 AM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)

There is more than one aspect to our obsession and paranoia.  We are afraid of you.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg505749/topicseen.html#msg505749

Thanks, IrishHermit. That very post proves my point about paranoia. I suggest you relax. Paranoia is not good for the blood pressure.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #145 on: December 13, 2010, 12:19:28 AM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)

There is more than one aspect to our obsession and paranoia.  We are afraid of you.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg505749/topicseen.html#msg505749

Thanks, IrishHermit. That very post proves my point about paranoia. I suggest you relax. Paranoia is not good for the blood pressure.

Indications of my paranoia.

1. I have lived in the holy monastery of Zica where there is a perpetual novice who will never be a nun.  She watched her pregnant mother be disembowelled by Catholics and is not psychologically normal..

2. I had to drive the Volkswagen Kombi into Kraljevo several days a week for supplies for the monastery (there were 29 of us.)  On the way we passed a mound near the monastery in Kraljevo where 5,000 students (!) were buried after their brutal killing by knife and axe (not even the mercy of a quick bullet.)   It was a Franciscan friar who started the bloodshed.  He went into a classroom in Kraljevo with his band of vile characters.  He selected a little girl and sat her on his knee at the front of the class.  He said, "Now I am going to show you how we must baptize the Orthodox" and he took his knife and slit the girl's throat.

And so began the slaughter of the students of Kraljevo....

If you know nothing of what transpired in WWII make an attempt to read material on the Net.  Even the Nazis in Yugoslavia expressed their distaste at the savagery with which the Catholic Croatians slaughtered the Orthodox.

These things colour one's perception of another religious system, I do not deny it.  Knowing these things maybe you can understand why they factor into my perception of Roman Catholics. I understand that you, living in tolerant multi-religious America, may not know of these things and may not take them seriously.

But do you understand the visceral fear which can take hold of a man...?



Offline ialmisry

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #146 on: December 13, 2010, 12:27:33 AM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)

There is more than one aspect to our obsession and paranoia.  We are afraid of you.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg505749/topicseen.html#msg505749

Thanks, IrishHermit. That very post proves my point about paranoia. I suggest you relax. Paranoia is not good for the blood pressure.

Indications of my paranoia.

1. I have lived in the holy monastery of Zica where there is a perpetual novice who will never be a nun.  She watched her pregnant mother be disembowelled by Catholics and is not psychologically normal..

2. I had to drive the Volkswagen Kombi into Kraljevo several days a week for supplies for the monastery (there were 29 of us.)  On the way we passed a mound near the monastery in Kraljevo where 5,000 students (!) were buried after their brutal killing by knife and axe (not even the mercy of a quick bullet.)   It was a Franciscan friar who started the bloodshed.  He went into a classroom in Kraljevo with his band of vile characters.  He selected a little girl and sat her on his knee at the front of the class.  He said, "Now I am going to show you how we must baptize the Orthodox" and he took his knife and slit the girl's throat.

And so began the slaughter of the students of Kraljevo....

If you know nothing of what transpired in WWII make an attempt to read material on the Net.  Even the Nazis in Yugoslavia expressed their distaste at the savagery with which the Catholic Croatians slaughtered the Orthodox.

These things colour one's perception of another religious system, I do not deny it.  Knowing these things maybe you can understand why they factor into my perception of Roman Catholics. I understand that you, living in tolerant multi-religious America, may not know of these things and may not take them seriously.

But do you understand the visceral fear which can take hold of a man...?
I recall that the Encyclopedia Judaica states that the Orthodox Serbs in Yugoslavia suffered as much as the Jews in WWII. Hmmm. Who was  murdering Orthodox Serbs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Usta%C5%A1e

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Usta%C5%A1e#Vatican_.22ratlines.22
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Offline Punch

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #147 on: December 13, 2010, 12:37:33 AM »

Indications of my paranoia.

1. I have lived in the holy monastery of Zica where there is a perpetual novice who will never be a nun.  She watched her pregnant mother be disembowelled by Catholics and is not psychologically normal..

2. I had to drive the Volkswagen Kombi into Kraljevo several days a week for supplies for the monastery (there were 29 of us.)  On the way we passed a mound near the monastery in Kraljevo where 5,000 students (!) were buried after their brutal killing by knife and axe (not even the mercy of a quick bullet.)   It was a Franciscan friar who started the bloodshed.  He went into a classroom in Kraljevo with his band of vile characters.  He selected a little girl and sat her on his knee at the front of the class.  He said, "Now I am going to show you how we must baptize the Orthodox" and he took his knife and slit the girl's throat.

And so began the slaughter of the students of Kraljevo....

If you know nothing of what transpired in WWII make an attempt to read material on the Net.  Even the Nazis in Yugoslavia expressed their distaste at the savagery with which the Catholic Croatians slaughtered the Orthodox.

These things colour one's perception of another religious system, I do not deny it.  Knowing these things maybe you can understand why they factor into my perception of Roman Catholics. I understand that you, living in tolerant multi-religious America, may not know of these things and may not take them seriously.

But do you understand the visceral fear which can take hold of a man...?


I have heard many other first hand accounts that mirror what you have said.  The former Priest at my parish lived through these things and even wrote a book about them called "So Help Me God".  Anyone that is interested only needs to Google "Vatican Croatian Atrocities" and see why there are those of us that will never trust the RCC.  So when the RC's say that we are still all butt-hurt about the sacking of Constantinople, they really don't know what they are talking about.  The history of RC/Orthodox relations have been bloody many times after that.  
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline theistgal

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #148 on: December 13, 2010, 12:51:00 AM »
Christians have been killing their fellow Christians for centuries.  Do you think the Catholics you refer to did these atrocities BECAUSE of the teachings of their Church or in SPITE of them?
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline lubeltri

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #149 on: December 13, 2010, 01:02:44 AM »
Of course, when Orthodox have killed Catholics, they are never at fault.

All of this is silly. As if the evil actions of a group of Catholics in one country in one brief period of history can represent an entire church of a billion members? IrishHermit has even compared us to Islam. Paranoia again. And un-Christian behavior, I call it. Ever hear of charity? No? Then start learning it by first not condemning a whole church because of the actions of an extremely small number of its members.

And I know what I'm going to say is strong, but I must say it: Expressing hatred instead of love and forgiveness is like spitting on those mass graves. They died because of hatred, and more hatred just continues the circle of hatred.



« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 01:05:07 AM by lubeltri »

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #150 on: December 13, 2010, 03:28:39 AM »
Christians have been killing their fellow Christians for centuries.  Do you think the Catholics you refer to did these atrocities BECAUSE of the teachings of their Church or in SPITE of them?

Those who know the centuries long history of contact bnetwen the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches know that this persecution and slaughter is repeated rather regulalry, enough to say that it is a feature of Roman Catholicism.

American Roman Catholics are not aware of this history in Europe and the Middle East and it is a shock to them and the first reaction is one of instinctive denial.  I can understand that.  There was a time when I was a bit of a naive young New Zealander and would have found it hard to credit also.

The topic of this thread is "How to consider Roman Catholics"  and I am simply telling you how I consider them. I do not consider them as blood thirsty barbarians because they are not.  But there have been occasions when they have acted in such a manner and with enough regularity that it is a factor in how I consider Roman Catholics.  Sorry if my honesty offends.

"Forgive we must, forget we dare not."
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 03:38:49 AM by Irish Hermit »

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #151 on: December 13, 2010, 03:37:57 AM »

And I know what I'm going to say is strong, but I must say it: Expressing hatred instead of love and forgiveness


Please be a little careful not to misrepresent me, lubeltri.  You are using dishonest tactics.

I do not hate Catholics.  I am aware of their history and know of their evil deeds against the Orthodox and this is one of my considerations when I judge Roman Catholics.

But you should have notice that I often end messages on this sad topic with the words of the Serbian Patriarch about the slaughter during the war period... words of forgiveness.

"Forgive we must, forget we dare not" ~  "Oprostiti moramo, zaboraviti ne smemo."

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #152 on: December 13, 2010, 03:45:23 AM »
This thread has become very visceral... :'(

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #153 on: December 13, 2010, 03:48:46 AM »
This thread has become very visceral... :'(

There was a time when the bowels were regarded as the seat of the emotions.... and I suppose the use of this word "visceral" is a survival from that period.

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #154 on: December 13, 2010, 11:08:34 AM »

And I know what I'm going to say is strong, but I must say it: Expressing hatred instead of love and forgiveness


Please be a little careful not to misrepresent me, lubeltri.  You are using dishonest tactics.

I do not hate Catholics.  I am aware of their history and know of their evil deeds against the Orthodox and this is one of my considerations when I judge Roman Catholics.

But you should have notice that I often end messages on this sad topic with the words of the Serbian Patriarch about the slaughter during the war period... words of forgiveness.

"Forgive we must, forget we dare not" ~  "Oprostiti moramo, zaboraviti ne smemo."
Fr. Ambrose, I know of the evil that has been committed by the EO Church. BUT, I only mention so that you don't forget that the members of your communion are not without blood on their hands. Ignoring this little fact is dishonesty on your part.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #155 on: December 13, 2010, 11:10:40 AM »
Christians have been killing their fellow Christians for centuries.  Do you think the Catholics you refer to did these atrocities BECAUSE of the teachings of their Church or in SPITE of them?

Those who know the centuries long history of contact bnetwen the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches know that this persecution and slaughter is repeated rather regulalry, enough to say that it is a feature of Roman Catholicism.

American Roman Catholics are not aware of this history in Europe and the Middle East and it is a shock to them and the first reaction is one of instinctive denial.  I can understand that.  There was a time when I was a bit of a naive young New Zealander and would have found it hard to credit also.

The topic of this thread is "How to consider Roman Catholics"  and I am simply telling you how I consider them. I do not consider them as blood thirsty barbarians because they are not.  But there have been occasions when they have acted in such a manner and with enough regularity that it is a factor in how I consider Roman Catholics.  Sorry if my honesty offends.

"Forgive we must, forget we dare not."
And there are instances when Eastern Orthodox Christians have behaved as blood thirsty barbarians. But let's forget that little bit of reality so that Fr. A can be as dishonest as he chooses.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #156 on: December 13, 2010, 12:43:15 PM »
I'm curious, could you list these instances and the bishops behind them?  I'm aware of some mob activity, but not any instances where there was an official ruling of any Orthodox churches calling for the murder of RCs.



And I know what I'm going to say is strong, but I must say it: Expressing hatred instead of love and forgiveness


Please be a little careful not to misrepresent me, lubeltri.  You are using dishonest tactics.

I do not hate Catholics.  I am aware of their history and know of their evil deeds against the Orthodox and this is one of my considerations when I judge Roman Catholics.

But you should have notice that I often end messages on this sad topic with the words of the Serbian Patriarch about the slaughter during the war period... words of forgiveness.

"Forgive we must, forget we dare not" ~  "Oprostiti moramo, zaboraviti ne smemo."
Fr. Ambrose, I know of the evil that has been committed by the EO Church. BUT, I only mention so that you don't forget that the members of your communion are not without blood on their hands. Ignoring this little fact is dishonesty on your part.
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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #157 on: December 13, 2010, 01:39:01 PM »
Christians have been killing their fellow Christians for centuries.  Do you think the Catholics you refer to did these atrocities BECAUSE of the teachings of their Church or in SPITE of them?

Your beliefs are not the main problem. The main problem is your institution.

Offline theistgal

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #158 on: December 13, 2010, 01:52:33 PM »
FatherGiryus, when was there an OFFICIAL ruling by the Roman Catholic Church calling for the murder of EO's?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 01:54:00 PM by theistgal »
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Offline Rufus

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #159 on: December 13, 2010, 02:03:50 PM »
FatherGiryus, when was there an OFFICIAL ruling by the Roman Catholic Church calling for the murder of EO's?

Did you read Isa's link?

Offline theistgal

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #160 on: December 13, 2010, 02:08:22 PM »
No.  I don't have the ability to follow links on my mobile connection.  Would you just tell me, please?
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Offline Rufus

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #161 on: December 13, 2010, 02:54:27 PM »
No.  I don't have the ability to follow links on my mobile connection.  Would you just tell me, please?

Basically, it tells about the collaboration between the Vatican and the Ustasha regime in Croatia during WWII. The regime was Nazi-backed, and carried out massive a genocide against the Orthodox Serbs and Croats. Pope Pius XII was apparently a supporter of Croation Catholic nationalism and latently permitted the actions being carried out by fundamentalist clergy. He was heavily criticized for refusing to cut ties with the Ustasha, and entertained their Catholic leader, Ante Pavelich, twice. More directly in charge of the situation was Abp. Aloysius Stepinac, archbishop of Zagreb, who ended up being indicted in post-war trials for backing the Ustasha (but nor for war crimes per se) and sentenced to sixteen years in prison. When his sentence was cut short, Pope Pius elevated him to the status of cardinal, and he was beatified by Pope John Paul II.

To make myself clear, I am not concerned with proving that this could never be done by Orthodox bishops (it has). What I do hope to show is that this is a terrible example of why the whole Church should not look up to a single human leader for guidance. Again, I am not trying to point fingers or even take a particular stance in this argument. I am just throwing in my 2 cents.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #162 on: December 13, 2010, 03:35:18 PM »
No.  I don't have the ability to follow links on my mobile connection.  Would you just tell me, please?

Basically, it tells about the collaboration between the Vatican and the Ustasha regime in Croatia during WWII. The regime was Nazi-backed, and carried out massive a genocide against the Orthodox Serbs and Croats. Pope Pius XII was apparently a supporter of Croation Catholic nationalism and latently permitted the actions being carried out by fundamentalist clergy. He was heavily criticized for refusing to cut ties with the Ustasha, and entertained their Catholic leader, Ante Pavelich, twice. More directly in charge of the situation was Abp. Aloysius Stepinac, archbishop of Zagreb, who ended up being indicted in post-war trials for backing the Ustasha (but nor for war crimes per se) and sentenced to sixteen years in prison. When his sentence was cut short, Pope Pius elevated him to the status of cardinal, and he was beatified by Pope John Paul II.

To make myself clear, I am not concerned with proving that this could never be done by Orthodox bishops (it has). What I do hope to show is that this is a terrible example of why the whole Church should not look up to a single human leader for guidance. Again, I am not trying to point fingers or even take a particular stance in this argument. I am just throwing in my 2 cents.
While the above is true, the section I cited deals with the 1990's when all of us were alive:during the drive for independence Trdujman, a "historian" and the Croatian leader and president, began writing denying the Ustashe atrocities, renaming streets and square to honor them, adopting symbols of the Ustashe as the symbols of the new state (somewhat inevitable, given that parts of the symbols are of old provinence).  Here in the US, in Chicago, I saw lots of bumper stickers showing this

with Za dom - spremni! "For home-we are ready!" written over it: its the Croatian version of Sieg Heil!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Za_dom_-_spremni!

Needless the say, the Serbs saw no reason to wait when when the Croats were doing this, banning Cyrillic etc. to wait for what would come next. So the Krajina, heavily Serb for centuries, voted to cecede from Croatia, as Croatia voted to cecede from Yugoslavia (molded in its socialist form by a Croat).  The Croats, however, didn't see it that way, and while breaking away from Yugoslavia, came down hard on the Krajina.

IIRC, the Vatican was the first state to recognize Trudjman's independence.
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Offline theistgal

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #163 on: December 13, 2010, 05:23:06 PM »
I'm officially exiting this thread.  My apologies if anything I've said has been uncharitable.
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #164 on: December 13, 2010, 05:29:03 PM »

To make myself clear, I am not concerned with proving that this could never be done by Orthodox bishops (it has).
Can you share an example?
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #165 on: December 13, 2010, 05:30:11 PM »
I'm curious, could you list these instances and the bishops behind them?  I'm aware of some mob activity, but not any instances where there was an official ruling of any Orthodox churches calling for the murder of RCs.



And I know what I'm going to say is strong, but I must say it: Expressing hatred instead of love and forgiveness


Please be a little careful not to misrepresent me, lubeltri.  You are using dishonest tactics.

I do not hate Catholics.  I am aware of their history and know of their evil deeds against the Orthodox and this is one of my considerations when I judge Roman Catholics.

But you should have notice that I often end messages on this sad topic with the words of the Serbian Patriarch about the slaughter during the war period... words of forgiveness.

"Forgive we must, forget we dare not" ~  "Oprostiti moramo, zaboraviti ne smemo."
Fr. Ambrose, I know of the evil that has been committed by the EO Church. BUT, I only mention so that you don't forget that the members of your communion are not without blood on their hands. Ignoring this little fact is dishonesty on your part.
I am not as well aquainted with EO history as some, but I refuse to believe that every EO bishop has been a saintly man with no blood on their hands.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #166 on: December 13, 2010, 05:44:44 PM »

Fr. Ambrose, I know of the evil that has been committed by the EO Church. BUT, I only mention so that you don't forget that the members of your communion are not without blood on their hands. Ignoring this little fact is dishonesty on your part.

Please look at the purpose of this thread - "HOW  TO  CONSIDER  ROMAN  CATHOLICS"

I am explaining to the forum how I consider Roman Catholics.

The thread is NOT about how I consider Orthodox, and to say that I am dishonest for not speaking about the Orthodox is, well, slightly irrational.

If you wish to speak about Orthodox atrocities against other religious groups, I have no objection.  Go ahead.

But, I repeat, that is not the purpose of this thread and it is quite illogical to call me dishonest for speaking to the subject of the thread.

I'd like an apology.


Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #167 on: December 13, 2010, 05:51:17 PM »
Christians have been killing their fellow Christians for centuries.  Do you think the Catholics you refer to did these atrocities BECAUSE of the teachings of their Church or in SPITE of them?

Those who know the centuries long history of contact bnetwen the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches know that this persecution and slaughter is repeated rather regulalry, enough to say that it is a feature of Roman Catholicism.

American Roman Catholics are not aware of this history in Europe and the Middle East and it is a shock to them and the first reaction is one of instinctive denial.  I can understand that.  There was a time when I was a bit of a naive young New Zealander and would have found it hard to credit also.

The topic of this thread is "How to consider Roman Catholics"  and I am simply telling you how I consider them. I do not consider them as blood thirsty barbarians because they are not.  But there have been occasions when they have acted in such a manner and with enough regularity that it is a factor in how I consider Roman Catholics.  Sorry if my honesty offends.

"Forgive we must, forget we dare not."
And there are instances when Eastern Orthodox Christians have behaved as blood thirsty barbarians. But let's forget that little bit of reality so that Fr. A can be as dishonest as he chooses.

Again, what has become your favourite mantra ~ "Father Ambrose is dishonest."  I hope my previous post shows you how irrational that claim is.

If you wish to introduce instances of Orthodox atrocities into this thread, I will not object.  I would like to hear your information - dates, countries, etc.  It is off topic though and so why don't you start a new thread.

Offline Marc1152

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #168 on: December 13, 2010, 05:56:44 PM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)

There is more than one aspect to our obsession and paranoia.  We are afraid of you.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg505749/topicseen.html#msg505749

Thanks, IrishHermit. That very post proves my point about paranoia. I suggest you relax. Paranoia is not good for the blood pressure.

I was an anti-Vietnam war activist. I kept telling people I was being followed. I kept saying my phone was tapped. I was suspicious of one of my roommates. I claimed a rash of office burglaries was done by the Police... My friends and family thought I  was Nuts / Paranoid

After the FBI's Co-intel papers were released it turned out that I had been followed, my phone was tapped, one of my room mates was on the FBI payroll and all the break-ins were done by the FBI.  :o   
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Aindriú

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #169 on: December 13, 2010, 06:00:20 PM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)

There is more than one aspect to our obsession and paranoia.  We are afraid of you.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg505749/topicseen.html#msg505749

Thanks, IrishHermit. That very post proves my point about paranoia. I suggest you relax. Paranoia is not good for the blood pressure.

I was an anti-Vietnam war activist. I kept telling people I was being followed. I kept saying my phone was tapped. I was suspicious of one of my roommates. I claimed a rash of office burglaries was done by the Police... My friends and family thought I  was Nuts / Paranoid

After the FBI's Co-intel papers were released it turned out that I had been followed, my phone was tapped, one of my room mates was on the FBI payroll and all the break-ins were done by the FBI.  :o   

LOL. Must've been an active activist to catch that much attention.

I'm going to need this.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #170 on: December 13, 2010, 06:05:04 PM »
The Vatican is actually a Borg collective, get ready for assimilation...

This is how some see the Roman Catholic Church, but look closely and you will find many disparate elements, and the Pope of Rome not able to control all the rabble.
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Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #171 on: December 13, 2010, 10:46:22 PM »
Christians have been killing their fellow Christians for centuries.  Do you think the Catholics you refer to did these atrocities BECAUSE of the teachings of their Church or in SPITE of them?

Those who know the centuries long history of contact bnetwen the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches know that this persecution and slaughter is repeated rather regulalry, enough to say that it is a feature of Roman Catholicism.

American Roman Catholics are not aware of this history in Europe and the Middle East and it is a shock to them and the first reaction is one of instinctive denial.  I can understand that.  There was a time when I was a bit of a naive young New Zealander and would have found it hard to credit also.

The topic of this thread is "How to consider Roman Catholics"  and I am simply telling you how I consider them. I do not consider them as blood thirsty barbarians because they are not.  But there have been occasions when they have acted in such a manner and with enough regularity that it is a factor in how I consider Roman Catholics.  Sorry if my honesty offends.

"Forgive we must, forget we dare not."
And there are instances when Eastern Orthodox Christians have behaved as blood thirsty barbarians. But let's forget that little bit of reality so that Fr. A can be as dishonest as he chooses.

Again, what has become your favourite mantra ~ "Father Ambrose is dishonest."  I hope my previous post shows you how irrational that claim is.

If you wish to introduce instances of Orthodox atrocities into this thread, I will not object.  I would like to hear your information - dates, countries, etc.  It is off topic though and so why don't you start a new thread.
Nope. you behaving in a dishonest manner. You apply a double standard. When the EOs murdered the Latins, you justify it. But when Catholics kill EOs, you act as you were the one martyred.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #172 on: December 13, 2010, 11:16:51 PM »
Nope. you behaving in a dishonest manner. You apply a double standard. When the EOs murdered the Latins, you justify it.


Papist, I am growing weary of your lies, for that, plainly said, is what they are, and you repeat and repeat them.

"In your haste to condemn me, you missed what I said in message 151:  ...it was not justified for the Greeks to slaughter Italians"
See message 151 at

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg506504.html#msg506504


Offline Papist

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #173 on: December 13, 2010, 11:19:50 PM »
Nope. you behaving in a dishonest manner. You apply a double standard. When the EOs murdered the Latins, you justify it.


Papist, I am growing weary of your lies, for that, plainly said, is what they are, and you repeat and repeat them.

"In your haste to condemn me, you missed what I said in message 151:  ...it was not justified for the Greeks to slaughter Italians"
See message 151 at

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg506504.html#msg506504


So after mulitple justifications for slaughter of the Latins, you sheepishly say "it was not justified" without any the rhetoric that you apply to reverse situations. I see.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Irish Hermit

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #174 on: December 13, 2010, 11:45:04 PM »
Nope. you behaving in a dishonest manner. You apply a double standard. When the EOs murdered the Latins, you justify it.


Papist, I am growing weary of your lies, for that, plainly said, is what they are, and you repeat and repeat them.

"In your haste to condemn me, you missed what I said in message 151:  ...it was not justified for the Greeks to slaughter Italians"
See message 151 at

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg506504.html#msg506504



So after mulitple justifications for slaughter of the Latins, you sheepishly say "it was not justified" without any the rhetoric that you apply to reverse situations. I see.


 This barrage of false accusations grows positively tinged with darkness in my view. God forgive you. Show us where I ever offered "mulitple justifications for slaughter of the Latins."
« Last Edit: December 13, 2010, 11:46:37 PM by Irish Hermit »

Offline Jakub

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #175 on: December 14, 2010, 12:32:21 AM »
Old Screwtape is loving this so called discussion, make him happy, keep it going...

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #176 on: December 14, 2010, 01:08:58 AM »
Just a thought, but deciding how and what you are going to believe before you have evidence is a classic example of how major mistakes are made, particularly heresies.

I am not as well aquainted with EO history as some, but I refuse to believe that every EO bishop has been a saintly man with no blood on their hands.
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Offline JLatimer

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #177 on: December 16, 2010, 11:21:29 PM »
How to consider the Roman Catholics... Is it okay if I don't consider them at all? ;)
Better still.


Sigh...   :'(

I'd rather many EO didn't consider us at all. It beats obsession and paranoia  ;)

There is more than one aspect to our obsession and paranoia.  We are afraid of you.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31887.msg505749/topicseen.html#msg505749

Thanks, IrishHermit. That very post proves my point about paranoia. I suggest you relax. Paranoia is not good for the blood pressure.

I was an anti-Vietnam war activist. I kept telling people I was being followed. I kept saying my phone was tapped. I was suspicious of one of my roommates. I claimed a rash of office burglaries was done by the Police... My friends and family thought I  was Nuts / Paranoid

After the FBI's Co-intel papers were released it turned out that I had been followed, my phone was tapped, one of my room mates was on the FBI payroll and all the break-ins were done by the FBI.  :o   

That's pretty cool. Well, also scary...
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Offline synLeszka

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #178 on: December 21, 2010, 11:27:08 AM »


Those are the true boundaries of Serbia!

Or is this the true Serbia?
Srbija do Tokija!  ::) ;D ::) :'( Which means "Serbia, from here to Tokyo"

Seriously, this thread has nothing to do with Catholicism.. It has more to do with football taunts than religion...  Za Boga i Otadżbinu or za Dom spremni are the domain of football fans not priests.

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Re: How to consider Roman Catholics
« Reply #179 on: December 21, 2010, 11:34:15 AM »


Unfortunately for all of us here, synLeszka has it right.  This thread is, indeed, very much like being at a Leeds United v. Manchester United match in the early '70s.  As such, it is now closed in an effort to prevent a digital riot.

Merry Christmas, everyone.

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