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Author Topic: Sigh...Family Troubles  (Read 4767 times) Average Rating: 0
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vlad111
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« on: November 30, 2010, 06:02:51 AM »

Helo everyone

I'm in need of some help if possible, this is my story:

My Partner and I are having our first child and we are having problems with regards into which religion we will raise them as.

Now the problem is I'm Serbian Orthodox and my Partner is a Catholic. The problem is my wife is a devout Catholic who is quite pious (goes to church every week and makes me come with her to her church), and myself on the other hand, whilst I do believe in God and call my self Christian I guess I'm not as pious as she is. Anyways, As I'm sure some of you might know, my parents equate being Serbian with Being Orthodox and are pressuring me to baptize the child as such (according to them if I were to baptize the child catholic they would consider her Croatian >.<, (My child is half Serbian from my side, and a quarter English a quarter Shri'lankan from my wife's side). My wife on the other hand is also pressuring me to baptize the child Catholic. Now I do not mind either way really as both would be baptism's and in devotion to God, but I'm quite stuck with my parents pressing me and being quite suggestive that if I don't baptize the child Orthodox they might as well disown me...quite literally not be in our life anymore at all.

We still haven't had a proper talk with them yet since the child is due in four months, I seriously do not know what do do anymore and its eating me inside because I do not want my parents to disassociate with me, and on the other hand I do not want my wife to bear a life of hurt because I denied her the one thing that makes her who she is...she is after all carrying the child and is going through all the pains herself. In any case I have a difficult decision ahead of me and I was wondering weather some kind person has had a similar experience before and could offer advice.

Cheers

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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 08:38:32 AM »

Were you married in an Orthodox service, or in a Roman Catholic service?
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 11:06:43 AM »


I would always pull for an Orthodox baptism.

However, baptizing your child into the Orthodox Faith, and not bringing them to an Orthodox Church, not instilling Orthodox values in them, not living an Orthodox life is almost pointless.

Will you bring your son/daughter to the Orthodox Church for Divine Liturgy on Sundays?  Will they be receiving Holy Communion in the Orthodox Church?  Will you teach them about not just Christianity, but, the Orthodox Faith?  These are all important aspects of being an Orthodox Christian.

Maybe, by baptizing him/her and doing your duty to raise your child as an Orthodox Christian, you will strengthen your own belief, learn things you yourself didn't know, and realize that Orthodoxy is not a nationality, but, the doorway to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Why not bring your wife with you to an Orthodox church? Why are you following her to a Catholic church?  How about every other weekend you attend Divine Liturgy at an Orthodox church?  Maybe she'll like it, as well, if not better.

Wink

Orthodoxy all the way!



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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 01:29:13 PM »

You've answered your own question. In reality, you've already abandoned Orthodoxy to maintain your marriage. (I assume you're not going to stop going to church with your wife or compel her to convert.) So, you've made your decision. The only thing that remains is to help your parents accept realty. You may have to accept a period of unpleasantness.

In addition, I doubt an Orthodox priest would baptize your child as an Orthodox because you attend a Roman Catholic church and can not guarantee that the child would be raised Orthodox. I'm afraid he would insist on that point.
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 04:02:49 PM »

In addition, I doubt an Orthodox priest would baptize your child as an Orthodox because you attend a Roman Catholic church and can not guarantee that the child would be raised Orthodox. I'm afraid he would insist on that point.

Nah, if you've got the money, the ritual specialist has the time.
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 06:33:34 PM »


That's really not a true statement.

Not ALL priests can be "bought".
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 10:20:25 PM »

Orthodoxy or Death ,There's nothing else....Wife Has to Follow the Husbands Religion if he's Orthodox .....
Has She ever been to a Orthodox Church,,If not try a english use one, instead of a serbian speaking one...
Listen to your parents and relatives they know best.....
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« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2010, 12:19:09 AM »

Orthodoxy or Death ,There's nothing else....Wife Has to Follow the Husbands Religion if he's Orthodox .....
Has She ever been to a Orthodox Church,,If not try a english use one, instead of a serbian speaking one...
Listen to your parents and relatives they know best.....

This is the exact sentiment that bothers me about my parents. "orthodoxy or death". 

First of all I'm Serbian but I never associated my religion to my culture. On the other hand, my parents are not religious at all (they just follow Easter and Orthodox Christmas) but apart from that they never raised us very religiously. However they still believe that Serbian = Orthodox no matter what.  Second I was bought up in Australia so I have a more open-minded view when it comes to other religions.

As such their desire for me to baptize my child orthodox does not stem from their spirituality but more from the fact that they see things in black and white biased views...funnily just like the guy above me...

My wife's desire to baptize our child Catholic though stems from the fact that she is a very spiritual person and that is simply a big part of her which I do not want her to detract from in order to fulfill my parent's biased and ignorant wishes. 

Also @Stashko I'm sure parents and relatives mean well at times but purely justifying their reasoning due to their status (that they are parents) does not mean they are correct. 

Please I do beg you, explain to me in a satisfactory manner something which no one can explain up to date so far... Why do serbs only have to be Orthodox and nothing else? And do so without conceptualizing past hate and crimes for your present reasoning...

I mean people of so many different nationalities go through so many faiths until they find the right one for their own individual self...why do we and we only have to be subject to a individuality forced upon us by heritage?? And I'm not even looking to change faiths myself. Why can't we co-exist and compromise more? Why do we have to be so intolerant, I mean isn't that against the teachings of Jesus anyway? Did he not preach peace and unity? Please do explain?
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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2010, 02:26:29 AM »

To be part of Ancient Holy  Orthodoxy, is to be a true catholic ,complete ,whole ,lacking nothing.....
Christ is head of Holy Orthodoxy ,not Some Fallable godMan pope that stacked the deck in his favor ,
and blew his own horn of triumph,and declared himself  infallable.......

Your Faith in Holy Orthodoxy will Grow If You Water it ,till the ground ,work at it, Go to Church
Confession ,Holy Communion , don't use your parents as a example because they don't go,but on occasion,
You be the example for them ,and others of your family.......The Saying If you want the world to Change
The change has to start in you first ,and then the world will follow suite........

Roman Catholicism is a enemy Of Holy Orthodoxy ,if they couldn't Absorb us they tried to stomp us out of existence ......... Ask Father Ambrose Aka Irish Hermit,a priest and monk that was ordained , in Serbia and educated there  and served there,,, now lives in New Zealand......


Orthodoxy Or Death, Is I believe a Russian Saying ,popular in Holy Russia but catching on in other Orthodox counties....Serbian Saying,,,, Better the Sultans Turban than the tiera of rome .....I....Samo sloga srbe spasava
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2010, 05:05:07 AM »

Are there Western Rite Orthodox Churches near you?  Perhaps you and your wife and child can attend one as a compromise?   Huh
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 08:20:55 AM »

vlad111, I'd still like to know, were you married in the Orthodox Church or the Roman Catholic Church? I'd be surprised if the issue of children didn't come up at some point at that time.
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 11:26:17 AM »

In addition, I doubt an Orthodox priest would baptize your child as an Orthodox because you attend a Roman Catholic church and can not guarantee that the child would be raised Orthodox. I'm afraid he would insist on that point.

Nah, if you've got the money, the ritual specialist has the time.
wait, wait, wait...do yoiu actually have to PAY for a special service from the Church  Shocked like baptism or marriage?!
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 11:26:35 AM »

vlad111, I'd still like to know, were you married in the Orthodox Church or the Roman Catholic Church? I'd be surprised if the issue of children didn't come up at some point at that time.

Yes. Both churches typically require a promise from the parents to rise the child in that church prior to matrimony. This would be interesting to know.

As far as the specific issue at hand, being Serbian does not equal being Orthodox. Neither does being Orthodox equal being Serbian. The cultural Orthodoxy you speak of is not limited to Serbia, of course. It can be found in Greece, Russia, Israel, Syria, Egypt, etc. Any place that has an indigenous Orthodox population which, from the people's perspective, has always been Orthodox...as long as they can remember, everyone was Orthodox. Therefore, in order to be [Serbian, Greek, Russian, Copt, etc.] is to be Orthodox.

This is not just an Orthodox phenomenon either. You will find the same thing among Roman Catholics in Italy, Spain, France, etc. It seems fairly common among Jewish families nearly everywhere (I've met many culturally proud Jews who attend synagogue on Passover and Hanukkah but otherwise give no thought to religion), and I'm sure this occurs among Muslims, Hindus, etc.

My point is that while a certain culture may tie itself to a religious identity, that does not mean one must be of that culture to be of that religion, nor does it mean that those within the culture are truly pious, religious people. I'm from the Appalachian mountains of Southeastern Kentucky. If my culture dictated me, I would be culturally Baptist or Pentecostal, without much thought to religion at all. Obviously, this is not the case. I defy the cultural identification as an Orthodox Christian who really hates to miss a service, and is quite frankly an Orthonerd (I am posting on OC.net, afterall!).

It sounds like this issue you have now began a long time ago. Your parents are culturally Orthodox, but not regular parishioners. They did not raise you religiously. You admit this yourself. Because of this, chances are you didn't give much thought to the religion of your spouse, and so married a devout Catholic woman. You are not religious, was not raised religious, and now you are having a child yourself. It seems that your parents are only nominally Orthodox themselves (at best) and you are not Orthodox at all.

If you intend to raise the child Orthodox, absolutely baptize him or her in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. If you do not intend to raise the child Orthodox, do not unite him or her to a Church that, essentially, the child will not truly be a part of. Of course, I encourage you to gain a greater understanding of your wife's piety, and use that to explore your own religious upbringing. Speak to a local Orthodox priest about the issue, and thoroughly think it through. I encourage you to rediscover your Orthodoxy in a new light, but if you are not practicing the Faith, why would you baptize your child into it?
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 11:29:30 AM »

In addition, I doubt an Orthodox priest would baptize your child as an Orthodox because you attend a Roman Catholic church and can not guarantee that the child would be raised Orthodox. I'm afraid he would insist on that point.

Nah, if you've got the money, the ritual specialist has the time.
wait, wait, wait...do yoiu actually have to PAY for a special service from the Church  Shocked like baptism or marriage?!

It is traditional to offer a gift to the parish in which you are married, for hosting the occasion. So traditional that it is essentially expected and required, although at the same time I can't imagine your own parish turning you down for the service if you are unable to pay upfront.

I've not heard of charges for a baptism, but there may be an expected gift, at least from the godparents. Again, I'm not sure here and so will differ to someone more knowledgeable.
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2010, 01:09:39 PM »

Please I do beg you, explain to me in a satisfactory manner something which no one can explain up to date so far... Why do serbs only have to be Orthodox and nothing else? And do so without conceptualizing past hate and crimes for your present reasoning...

You shouldn't be Orthodox because you're Serbian.  You should be Orthodox because it is the one and only Church founded by Christ.  I am sorry, I am so sorry that you were raised with Orthodoxy in such a xenophobic context, and that your parents did not see fit to raise you in the faith. 

But this really is the only church that has actually preserved the faith taught by Christ, the Church that gave the world the Bible without cutting any parts out.    Every other Christian church, including the Roman Catholics, broke away and changed parts of the teaching to suit their own whims.  The Orthodox Church has been working for two thousand years to try to call the lost back to unity with God, even after the others split away. 

Unfortunately, this zeal to spread the Gospel has been perverted and polluted by those with their own ambitions.  It's terrible that there are Orthodox Christians who only seem to want to use Orthodoxy as a stick to beat other people over the head with.  They have no better reward for that than they would if they spat on Christ and fought for Satan instead. 

What gives me hope is knowing that even in places like the Balkan peninsula, where there is so much strife with other ethnic groups, there are Serbs (and non-Serbs who are Orthodox) who ignore ethnic identity and work to save people.  The Serbian Orthodox Decani monastery sheltered people during the wars without regard to whether they were Serbian, Kosovar Albanian, Roman Catholic, Muslim, or Orthodox.

And in Albania, where half a century of state-enforced atheism obliterated the Orthodox Church there, Greeks worked to find the remnant of the Orthodox Church there and restore it.  Now they, along with American Orthodox missionaries, are now working to bring the Albanian people the Gospel all over again.  The resurrection of the Church of Albania is one of the most beautiful and miraculous stories in the whole history of the Orthodox Church, and it has all happened in the past twenty years.

Quote
I mean people of so many different nationalities go through so many faiths until they find the right one for their own individual self...why do we and we only have to be subject to a individuality forced upon us by heritage?? And I'm not even looking to change faiths myself. Why can't we co-exist and compromise more? Why do we have to be so intolerant, I mean isn't that against the teachings of Jesus anyway? Did he not preach peace and unity? Please do explain?

Tell me if this sounds like something "peace and unity" Jesus would say:  "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."  That's in the Gospels, Matthew 10.

Jesus did not preach peace and unity at the expense of truth, and taught us that the truth of the Gospel is worth fighting for, if not always with swords.
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2010, 04:03:04 PM »

In addition, I doubt an Orthodox priest would baptize your child as an Orthodox because you attend a Roman Catholic church and can not guarantee that the child would be raised Orthodox. I'm afraid he would insist on that point.

Nah, if you've got the money, the ritual specialist has the time.
wait, wait, wait...do yoiu actually have to PAY for a special service from the Church  Shocked like baptism or marriage?!

Not if one is a Member and payes there dues...Free will Donations are uasually given to the Father and to the Church for the services rendered......The Church doesn't pressure anyone for money ......

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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2010, 04:15:09 PM »

Your parents have healthy cultural instincts, if I may share my opinion. I would do as they say, if at all possible.
Ignore the gibberish about "nominal Orthodox etc"; baptism is baptism, no matter how pious or lackadaisical one might be.
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2010, 04:40:15 PM »

In addition, I doubt an Orthodox priest would baptize your child as an Orthodox because you attend a Roman Catholic church and can not guarantee that the child would be raised Orthodox. I'm afraid he would insist on that point.

Nah, if you've got the money, the ritual specialist has the time.

Wow...bitter are we?
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2010, 04:46:42 PM »

In addition, I doubt an Orthodox priest would baptize your child as an Orthodox because you attend a Roman Catholic church and can not guarantee that the child would be raised Orthodox. I'm afraid he would insist on that point.

Nah, if you've got the money, the ritual specialist has the time.

Wow...bitter are we?
I think he is realistic: in most places-I don't know in America, in convert parishes though-for a small contribution a kid will be baptized without further ado. It is routine.
Why shouldn't it be like this?
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2010, 05:28:53 PM »

Now I do not mind either way really as both would be baptism's and in devotion to God,

That is not an Orthodox perspective.
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2010, 06:38:39 PM »

Your parents have healthy cultural instincts, if I may share my opinion. I would do as they say, if at all possible.
Ignore the gibberish about "nominal Orthodox etc"; baptism is baptism, no matter how pious or lackadaisical one might be.

Being "lackadaisical" seems to be fairly nominal in one's faith. Now, that doesn't make anyone who takes this approach non-Orthodox. If you were baptized in the Church, you have a relationship with it. That baptism isn't made invalid by one's later action. Even those who fall into heresy or schism remain validly baptized, but simply out of communion with the Church, hopefully to return.

My point is that my statement was not intended to question or judge anyone, simply to state a level of activity some maintain within the Church. That is all. I apologize for any offense.
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2010, 12:47:22 AM »

I think he is realistic: in most places-I don't know in America, in convert parishes though-for a small contribution a kid will be baptized without further ado. It is routine.
Why shouldn't it be like this?

At my parish Ethiopian families who almost never come to church bring their infants to be baptized in a mostly private ceremony, usually on Saturdays, and they give payment for this. And yes, there is an Ethiopian Church in town, they just like our priest better and sort of come in groups. So for all of you hardliners our there in EO/OO relations, welcome to the real world. They probably even then go and take communion in non-Chalcedonian churches after an EO baptism. Oh my!
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2010, 02:43:46 AM »

"Ritual specialist"?  What a wonderful way to treat the holy priesthood! 

And regarding "hardliners", we're not living in an alternate universe, we know that EO priests baptize, confess, and commune the Orientals.  We just find it to be scandalous and upsetting that one does not have to be a member of the Orthodox Church to receive her sacraments.  I'd feel the same way about an Anglo-Catholic receiving sacraments in the Church, no matter how "Orthodox" their theology might be. 

Abba Dorotheos states that sarcasm towards others is in fact contempt towards neighbor and a violation of the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself.

*****************************

Vlad, you are in a terribly difficult situation.  Actually, St. Justin Popovich, the great Serbian saint, spoke to his fellow Serbs quite clearly about preaching Serbia over and above Christ.  I am sorry your parents are complicating things and creating a lot of anxiety for your family.  With that said, your child must be baptized into the Orthodox Faith.  The Orthodox Church is the Church of Christ and to knowlingly and willingly allow your child to be baptized outside of the Church is a great sin.  I understand your wife's feelings and how terribly painful it must be for her, but this isn't about her, but your child.  You and your family have my prayers.

John

 
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2010, 02:55:05 AM »

"Ritual specialist"?  What a wonderful way to treat the holy priesthood!

My intention was not to mock the priesthood, but rather its commodification by many.
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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2010, 03:07:06 AM »

Now the problem is I'm Serbian Orthodox and my Partner is a Catholic. The problem is my wife is a devout Catholic who is quite pious (goes to church every week and makes me come with her to her church), and myself on the other hand, whilst I do believe in God and call my self Christian I guess I'm not as pious as she is.
I know that some people here are going to object to what I say, and I hope that no one will take offense, and that you will forgive me,  but it is very hard for a devout,  pious and faithful Catholic to go to an Orthodox Church and be told that she cannot receive Holy Communion, but that her husband who is not so pious and is not going to the Orthodox Church regularly can receive the Holy Mysteries. With all due respect to the differences and serious problems dividing the two Churches, I believe that it might be better to make an exception in the case of a married RC EO couple, in the interests of a solid and sound family life.  Of course, I am giving this opinion from the RC point of view, since the RC Church already allows this, and that is what I know.
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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2010, 08:31:16 AM »

I do wish vlad111 would tell us about where he was married. I'm concerned that he and his partner/wife (he has used both terms) did not marry in a church. What are the implications for their child's baptism if such is the case?
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« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2010, 09:47:59 AM »

I was baptized RC - a valid baptism in the OC.  My parents raised me RC.  I am now OC.  Who can defeat the way of God? 
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« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2010, 09:50:22 AM »

Maybe you can try telling your wife it's not about baptism, it's about chrismation. Roman Catholics don't chrismate infants, or therefore commune them either. Tell her you don't want your child living without the seal of the Holy Spirit for that long.

And I would recommend raising the child Orthodox. If your wife wants to be Catholic, that's fine. I know several couples where one is Orthodox and the other isn't. But that doesn't mean you have to abandon the Church, and it doesn't mean you can't pass it on to your child.

That said, I know it's difficult. I pray things are sorted out soon.
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« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2010, 02:01:26 PM »

I'm a true Believer That Roman Catholic  Should be Baptised when entering Holy Orthodoxy.....They Don't confess the same Confession of Faith as we the Orthodox Due , So there Trinity isn't the Same As Our Most Holy Trinity, There god Is Different....

There Jesus and There Mary are not the same as Our Holy Orthodox Scriptural Jesus and Holy Mary  Are..
Roman Catholics follow the jesus and mary that are of recent talking Apparitions and strange doctrines link here http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx, unknown to the Holy Fathers Faith Once Delivered.....  

Bogdan is right ,In Holy Orthodoxy your Baby upon Holy Baptism and Chrismation ,will be able to take Holy Communion right away ,Both the Blood And Body...
 
In Roman Catholicism Children have to wait ,till there seven yrs old , may or may not receive the wine  but the wafer instead .....

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« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2010, 03:27:35 PM »

Bishop Hilarion wrote in his catechism that not all who think that they part of the church really are part of the church, and many who do not think they are Christian are in fact true Christians. I have never heard a Roman Catholic say such a thing, but I think that it is true.
The Holy Spirit decides who is a believer and who is not.  He cites st.Augustine, a Latin Father, but I have never heard this belief exposed in this manner by my cobelievers.
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When dealing with the difficult question of Christian divisions, the Orthodox may wish to bear in mind that God alone knows where the limits of the Church are. As St Augustine said, ‘many of those who on earth considered themselves to be alien to the Church will find that on the day of Judgment that they are her citizen; and many of those who thought themselves to be members of the Church will, alas, be found to be alien to her’. To declare that outside of the Orthodox Church there is not and cannot be the grace of God would be to limit God’s omnipotence, to confine Him to a framework outside of which He has no right to act.
http://en.hilarion.orthodoxia.org/5_1#THE_CHURCH_AND_CHURCHES
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« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2010, 08:52:19 PM »

There Jesus and There Mary are not the same as Our Holy Orthodox Scriptural Jesus and Holy Mary  Are..
Roman Catholics follow the jesus and mary that are of recent talking Apparitions and strange doctrines link here http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx, unknown to the Holy Fathers Faith Once Delivered.....
Please keep in mind, that R. Catholics are not obligated to believe in the authenticity of any of these private apparitions. Are Orthodox obligated to believe in toll houses? A site such as Lourdes may be viewed as a site to honor the Mother of God, even if you do not believe in the authenticity of the apparition. Catholics are not perfect and perhaps this is not the best way to honor the Most Holy  Mother of God. But they try as they can to do so, even though it may be an imperfect method and one open to reservations.
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« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2010, 01:28:57 PM »

Now the problem is I'm Serbian Orthodox and my Partner is a Catholic. The problem is my wife is a devout Catholic who is quite pious (goes to church every week and makes me come with her to her church), and myself on the other hand, whilst I do believe in God and call my self Christian I guess I'm not as pious as she is.
I know that some people here are going to object to what I say, and I hope that no one will take offense, and that you will forgive me,  but it is very hard for a devout,  pious and faithful Catholic to go to an Orthodox Church and be told that she cannot receive Holy Communion, but that her husband who is not so pious and is not going to the Orthodox Church regularly can receive the Holy Mysteries. With all due respect to the differences and serious problems dividing the two Churches, I believe that it might be better to make an exception in the case of a married RC EO couple, in the interests of a solid and sound family life.  Of course, I am giving this opinion from the RC point of view, since the RC Church already allows this, and that is what I know.

It is not always the case that a baptized Orthodox Christian may always partake of the Most Pure Mysteries at any time. It is common practice for some jurisdictions (and this may even vary priest-to-priest) to require either a letter of good standing from the Christian's parish, or (usually in addition) to make confession to the priest of the parish which you are visiting. Canons actually state that, if an Orthodox Christian has purposefully and willfully missed communion for three weeks, he or she is anathema. This seems a good practice to me.

As for allowing non-Orthodox commune, I cannot support that. While I understand how some may feel about not being able to commune, even if they are married to an Orthodox Christian, the fact remains that they are not Orthodox themselves. While Holy Matrimony mystically unites two into one flesh, it is not for the remission of sins, as is baptism, does not call down the gift of the Holy Spirit, as does chrismation, and so does not entitle an individual to receive the Holy Eucharist.

I do wish vlad111 would tell us about where he was married. I'm concerned that he and his partner/wife (he has used both terms) did not marry in a church. What are the implications for their child's baptism if such is the case?

I would tend to believe that, if they were married outside of either church, then neither church would recognize their marriage as valid and both would be excommunicate from their repsective churches until confession was made and the union was blessed in that church. Until then, neither could their child be baptized.

Of course, this could be bent or broken by the parish priest, or I could just be wrong. I welcome any correction.
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« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2010, 02:44:24 PM »

Quote
Canons actually state that, if an Orthodox Christian has purposefully and willfully missed communion for three weeks, he or she is anathema. This seems a good practice to me.

Get out of that cocoon, man!
 That's what they teach you , nowadays?
To most of us it would come as a surprise to learn from a catechumen, nonetheless, that 99.99% of the faithful are "anathema", since frequent, weekly communion, is the norm ONLY in American convert parishes.
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« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2010, 03:10:02 PM »


While it may be the norm "only" in American convert parishes, it should be the norm everywhere.
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« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2010, 03:13:34 PM »

While it may be the norm "only" in American convert parishes, it should be the norm everywhere.

You might be able to get through to augustin717, as you also have impressive authentic Orthodox credentials. Wink

What the communion situation like at your ethnic parish, Liza?
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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2010, 04:24:45 PM »

Quote
Canons actually state that, if an Orthodox Christian has purposefully and willfully missed communion for three weeks, he or she is anathema. This seems a good practice to me.

Get out of that cocoon, man!
 That's what they teach you , nowadays?
To most of us it would come as a surprise to learn from a catechumen, nonetheless, that 99.99% of the faithful are "anathema", since frequent, weekly communion, is the norm ONLY in American convert parishes.

My point in referencing that canon is not to argue for a strict interpretation of it. It was actually quite a side issue, additional information if you will. My point is that simply because one is an Orthodox Christian, they are not necessarily entitled to the Most Pure Mysteries, depending on their current relation to the Church and the discernment of the priest, whose holy duty it is to guard the chalice. As we hear in so many of our parishes each Sunday:

"The Eucharist is served to members of the Orthodox Church who have made proper preparation through prayer, fasting and recent confession and who are at peace with their neighbors."
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« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2010, 04:47:58 PM »


While it may be the norm "only" in American convert parishes, it should be the norm everywhere.

I used to know a priest who would routinely celebrate liturgy with Scripture readings and homily all in a language that a certain traditionally Orthodox ethnic community could understand, but oftentimes the only people who went up to the chalice were the Western convert people who didn't understand a word.   Cheesy
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« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2010, 06:23:36 PM »

While it may be the norm "only" in American convert parishes, it should be the norm everywhere.

You might be able to get through to augustin717, as you also have impressive authentic Orthodox credentials. Wink

What the communion situation like at your ethnic parish, Liza?

My church requires that the faithful go to Holy Confession prior to Communion.  While this seems to be an issue, an inconvenience, and completely unnecessary to some posters/faithful, I have no issues with it, as I seem to always have a list of sins to confess each Sunday. 
Wink

So, here's my parish situation.  All the kids (under age 7, or whom have not yet had their first Holy Confession) go to Holy Communion.  The adults who have followed the fasting requirements, confessed, etc., also go to Holy Communion.

To be honest, there used to be only be a handful of adults a few years ago.  However, it seems to have caught on, and each Sunday on average 20 people go to Confession/Communion (in addition to the 20 kids!)

Having said that, I have also attended Ukrainian churches where Holy Communion is not held as a "prerequisite" and in those churches (comprised of only a few converts, majority cradle O) everyone partakes of Holy Communion (except me, if I haven't gone to Confession!)


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« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2010, 06:38:55 PM »

While it may be the norm "only" in American convert parishes, it should be the norm everywhere.

You might be able to get through to augustin717, as you also have impressive authentic Orthodox credentials. Wink

What the communion situation like at your ethnic parish, Liza?

My church requires that the faithful go to Holy Confession prior to Communion.  While this seems to be an issue, an inconvenience, and completely unnecessary to some posters/faithful, I have no issues with it, as I seem to always have a list of sins to confess each Sunday. 
Wink

So, here's my parish situation.  All the kids (under age 7, or whom have not yet had their first Holy Confession) go to Holy Communion.  The adults who have followed the fasting requirements, confessed, etc., also go to Holy Communion.

To be honest, there used to be only be a handful of adults a few years ago.  However, it seems to have caught on, and each Sunday on average 20 people go to Confession/Communion (in addition to the 20 kids!)

Having said that, I have also attended Ukrainian churches where Holy Communion is not held as a "prerequisite" and in those churches (comprised of only a few converts, majority cradle O) everyone partakes of Holy Communion (except me, if I haven't gone to Confession!)





Great reply ,thats how i was taught ......Confession always before Holy Communion....
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« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2010, 05:25:37 PM »

Quote
Canons actually state that, if an Orthodox Christian has purposefully and willfully missed communion for three weeks, he or she is anathema. This seems a good practice to me.

Get out of that cocoon, man!
 That's what they teach you , nowadays?
To most of us it would come as a surprise to learn from a catechumen, nonetheless, that 99.99% of the faithful are "anathema", since frequent, weekly communion, is the norm ONLY in American convert parishes.

My point in referencing that canon is not to argue for a strict interpretation of it. It was actually quite a side issue, additional information if you will. My point is that simply because one is an Orthodox Christian, they are not necessarily entitled to the Most Pure Mysteries, depending on their current relation to the Church and the discernment of the priest, whose holy duty it is to guard the chalice. As we hear in so many of our parishes each Sunday:

"The Eucharist is served to members of the Orthodox Church who have made proper preparation through prayer, fasting and recent confession and who are at peace with their neighbors."

Indeed. Personally I was told once by my priest during confession that if I was not able to forgive someone that I was angry with, I would not be able to receive Communion. That got my attention, you betcha.
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« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2010, 08:27:45 PM »

And regarding "hardliners", we're not living in an alternate universe, we know that EO priests baptize, confess, and commune the Orientals.  We just find it to be scandalous and upsetting that one does not have to be a member of the Orthodox Church to receive her sacraments.  I'd feel the same way about an Anglo-Catholic receiving sacraments in the Church, no matter how "Orthodox" their theology might be.

Indeed.
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« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2010, 08:29:25 PM »

I know that some people here are going to object to what I say, and I hope that no one will take offense, and that you will forgive me,  but it is very hard for a devout,  pious and faithful Catholic to go to an Orthodox Church and be told that she cannot receive Holy Communion, but that her husband who is not so pious and is not going to the Orthodox Church regularly can receive the Holy Mysteries.

OK, but this isn't the reality anyway. Remember the canon about not attending Liturgy for 3 weeks without excuse affecting automatic excommunication?
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« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2010, 08:32:13 PM »

Quote
Canons actually state that, if an Orthodox Christian has purposefully and willfully missed communion for three weeks, he or she is anathema. This seems a good practice to me.

Get out of that cocoon, man!
 That's what they teach you , nowadays?
To most of us it would come as a surprise to learn from a catechumen, nonetheless, that 99.99% of the faithful are "anathema", since frequent, weekly communion, is the norm ONLY in American convert parishes.

IIRC, it's actually regarding attendance at the Holy Liturgy, rather than partaking of Communion.
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« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2011, 01:18:28 PM »

Helo everyone

I'm in need of some help if possible, this is my story:

My Partner and I are having our first child and we are having problems with regards into which religion we will raise them as.

Now the problem is I'm Serbian Orthodox and my Partner is a Catholic. The problem is my wife is a devout Catholic who is quite pious (goes to church every week and makes me come with her to her church), and myself on the other hand, whilst I do believe in God and call my self Christian I guess I'm not as pious as she is. Anyways, As I'm sure some of you might know, my parents equate being Serbian with Being Orthodox and are pressuring me to baptize the child as such (according to them if I were to baptize the child catholic they would consider her Croatian >.<, (My child is half Serbian from my side, and a quarter English a quarter Shri'lankan from my wife's side). My wife on the other hand is also pressuring me to baptize the child Catholic. Now I do not mind either way really as both would be baptism's and in devotion to God, but I'm quite stuck with my parents pressing me and being quite suggestive that if I don't baptize the child Orthodox they might as well disown me...quite literally not be in our life anymore at all.

We still haven't had a proper talk with them yet since the child is due in four months, I seriously do not know what do do anymore and its eating me inside because I do not want my parents to disassociate with me, and on the other hand I do not want my wife to bear a life of hurt because I denied her the one thing that makes her who she is...she is after all carrying the child and is going through all the pains herself. In any case I have a difficult decision ahead of me and I was wondering weather some kind person has had a similar experience before and could offer advice.

Cheers


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« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2011, 05:17:56 PM »

Yuuuup, just saw how old this is and deleted my comment haha.
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