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Author Topic: Judas  (Read 720 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: November 29, 2010, 11:26:30 PM »

There seems to be different accounts if Judas hanged himself or not.

Also what is the Orthodox take on his enthronment in heaven, does that refer to Matthiaus and not Judas?

Why is Judas so looked down upon, I mean didn't he faciliate the death of Christ so that everyone could have eternal life?
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 11:42:10 PM »

Quote from: Achronos
Why is Judas so looked down upon, I mean didn't he faciliate the death of Christ so that everyone could have eternal life?

I don't think Judas was thinking that way when he betrayed the Lord.

Luke 22:3
Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.

John 13:27
Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him.

(him=Judas)

John 12:6
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

(he=Judas)


Matthew 26
14 Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests 15 and said, “What are you willing to give me if I deliver Him to you?” And they counted out to him thirty pieces of silver. 16 So from that time he sought opportunity to betray Him.


Judas was a thief who invited Satan into his soul. He facilitated the death of Our Lord Jesus for thirty pieces of silver. Jesus gave us eternal life because He loved us. There is a difference. 
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 11:49:20 PM »


Judas was Christ's disciple.  As His student, he was present at all manner of miracles and healings, not to mention he had the benefit of hearing Christ teach, instruct and preach to the multitudes.  What an education he had. 

...and yet in the end he betrayed Christ. 

One could argue that St. Peter also betrayed Christ.  However, St. Peter retained the words his Master had taught him.  He felt remorse and guilt.  He hid and cried.  Most importantly he begged forgiveness.

Judas on the other hand, threw away everything he had seen and heard.  While Christ had instructed to love, be compassionate, to forgive and to repent - all of these seemed to have escaped Judas.  Even realizing that he had made a mistake, he seemed to drown in his guilt, but, instead of following Christ's instructions to repent, he took his life, thereby only adding to to his own guilt.  His pride once again interfered with his common sense, and he could not bring himself to ask for God's forgiveness.  Even in the end he listened to Satan, taking his own life, and didn't heed God's words, nor look for God's love and forgiveness. 

You say that he "facilitated" the death of Christ...yes.  However, what if realizing the horrific thing he did, instead of committing suicide he repented....in so doing he may have been a great missionary and baptized hundreds.  What a loss. 



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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 12:48:44 AM »

Judas?   Left in Hell or brought forth with all the others by the Saviour on Holy Saturday?

Judas in hell? Again there is the most ancient of traditions that Judas hung himself partly in despair but also out of a desire to meet Christ on the other side of death and ask His forgiveness. This is the teaching of either Saint John Chrysostom or Origin and it is a generous and wonderful thought.

Anybody able to help with any reference?
 
Fr KImel has told us that the Catholic Church does not teach that Judas is lost.  See message 34 at http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,29372.msg465139.html#msg465139
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 12:53:45 AM »

The Judas Tree
by Ruth Etchells

In Hell there grew a Judas Tree
Where Judas hanged and died
Because he could not bear to see
His Master crucified

Our Lord descended into Hell
And found his Judas there
For ever hanging on the tree
Grown from his own despair

So Jesus cut his Judas down
And took him in his arms
'It was for this I came' he said
'And not to do you harm

My Father gave me twelve good men
And all of them I kept
Though one betrayed and one denied
Some fled and others slept

In three days' time I must return
To make the others glad
But first I had to come to Hell
And share the death you had

My tree will grow in place of yours
Its roots lie here as well
There is no final victory
Without this soul from Hell'

So when we all condemn him
As of every traitor worst
Remember that of all his men
Our Lord forgave him first.


Now we may have varying opinions about the literary merit of this poem but there are four lines which leap out in theological terms...

But first I had to come to Hell
And share the death you had
....

There is no final victory
Without this soul from Hell


We know that the Saviour descended to Hell and "harrowed" it. Did He harrow it completely, did He empty it completely?  Metropolitan Hilarion says that He did.

Did He accept the repentance of Judas His apostle when He met him in Hell?  After all, He accepted the repentance of Peter who also betrayed Him. Was the death of Jesus also redemptive for a repentant Judas?

"Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented..."
Matthew 27:3

Fr Ambrose

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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 06:36:55 AM »

From what I know, Jesus never went down to Hell. Instead, He went down to Hades, aka the Land of the Dead. Before the reign over Death by Jesus, there was neither Heaven, nor Hell, at least they were not active. Everyone was going to the same place. Before Jesus, nobody ever believed in eternal life, because it just was not a possibility, until the coming of the Son of God. Jesus' coming changed it all.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 06:39:14 AM by Dimitrios-Georgios » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 06:56:04 AM »

From what I know, Jesus never went down to Hell. Instead, He went down to Hades, aka the Land of the Dead. Before the reign over Death by Jesus, there was neither Heaven, nor Hell, at least they were not active. Everyone was going to the same place. Before Jesus, nobody ever believed in eternal life, because it just was not a possibility, until the coming of the Son of God. Jesus' coming changed it all.

Well, I imagine that answers the question?  Judas was delivered from Hades if the belief is true that when Christ the Lord descended into Hades or the Limbo of the Fathers or the Bosom of Abraham He preached the Good News of salvation to those held captive there and emptied it of all souls.
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 07:01:22 AM »

Still, you have to admit that some of the Hebrews that wanted the death of Jesus had seen His miracles happen before their very eyes. In that sense, statistically speaking, there have to be some dead souls that just didn't follow what Jesus had to evangelize. I can't be sure about Judas, but had it been the case, wouldn't all the Saints speak highly of him?
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 11:56:28 AM »

The Judas Tree
by Ruth Etchells

In Hell there grew a Judas Tree
Where Judas hanged and died
Because he could not bear to see
His Master crucified

Our Lord descended into Hell
And found his Judas there
For ever hanging on the tree
Grown from his own despair

So Jesus cut his Judas down
And took him in his arms
'It was for this I came' he said
'And not to do you harm

My Father gave me twelve good men
And all of them I kept
Though one betrayed and one denied
Some fled and others slept

In three days' time I must return
To make the others glad
But first I had to come to Hell
And share the death you had

My tree will grow in place of yours
Its roots lie here as well
There is no final victory
Without this soul from Hell'

So when we all condemn him
As of every traitor worst
Remember that of all his men
Our Lord forgave him first.


Now we may have varying opinions about the literary merit of this poem but there are four lines which leap out in theological terms...

But first I had to come to Hell
And share the death you had
....

There is no final victory
Without this soul from Hell


We know that the Saviour descended to Hell and "harrowed" it. Did He harrow it completely, did He empty it completely?  Metropolitan Hilarion says that He did.

Did He accept the repentance of Judas His apostle when He met him in Hell?  After all, He accepted the repentance of Peter who also betrayed Him. Was the death of Jesus also redemptive for a repentant Judas?

"Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented..."
Matthew 27:3

Fr Ambrose

-oOo-


What about the passage that says "woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed, better were it for that man if he had not been born"?

I understand that the Greek syntax is more correctly translated "woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed, better were it for Him if that man had not been born," but the context of the woe being on the betrayer would seem to argue against that translation.

What does this passage mean if Judas isn't lost?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 11:56:55 AM by Michael_Gerard » Logged
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