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« Reply #90 on: November 27, 2010, 09:00:30 PM »

You claim your religion is the correct one, is that not arrogant? How do you know its the correct one?
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« Reply #91 on: November 27, 2010, 09:05:22 PM »

You claim your religion is the correct one, is that not arrogant? How do you know its the correct one?

It makes sense to me, that's all I can say.
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« Reply #92 on: November 27, 2010, 09:06:53 PM »

We are just a speck in the universe, why would God even make an entire universe why would we place any significance on ourselves?
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« Reply #93 on: November 27, 2010, 09:10:45 PM »

You claim your religion is the correct one, is that not arrogant? How do you know its the correct one?

There are lots of (non-arrogant) reasons why I believe this, but do you really want to get into them or are you just being facetious?
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« Reply #94 on: November 27, 2010, 09:11:13 PM »

Wait wait wait, did you actually say that his religion is the ONLY "correct" one? Such beautiful, stunning arrogance

When the US President signs a bill into law, it is not arrogance for him to enforce it with the full power of the US government (btw, I think the present holder of the office is one of the most arrogant persons on the face of the earth. But that's a different issue). He has that authority.  It is arrogance for others to claim that authority.

It is not arrogance to confess the existence of the Truth. If that fact bothers you, that is your problem.

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. I'm reminded again of the late great Sagan.
Quote
From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of particular interest. But for us, it's different. Look again at that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
Now who's being arrogant.

Fact is, that little dot as far as we know is the only spot in all the universe that matters. There is no evidence of different worlds, and is is an act of faith, rather than a statement of fact, to postulate otherwise.
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« Reply #95 on: November 27, 2010, 09:11:47 PM »

Wait wait wait, did you actually say that his religion is the ONLY "correct" one? Such beautiful, stunning arrogance. I'm reminded again of the late great Sagan.

Quote
From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of particular interest. But for us, it's different. Look again at that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

You can examine hydrogen from earth, and hydrogen from jupiter; they're both going to be governed by quantum physics.

Is it really so surprising that there are right and wrong answers to questions?
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« Reply #96 on: November 27, 2010, 09:11:59 PM »

We are just a speck in the universe, why would God even make an entire universe why would we place any significance on ourselves?

Since when does size correlate to something's significance?
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« Reply #97 on: November 27, 2010, 09:12:30 PM »

You claim your religion is the correct one, is that not arrogant? How do you know its the correct one?

Appeal to ignorance.
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« Reply #98 on: November 27, 2010, 09:12:40 PM »

You claim your religion is the correct one, is that not arrogant? How do you know its the correct one?

More to the point: on what basis do you claim it is not?
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« Reply #99 on: November 27, 2010, 09:13:43 PM »

Lamarckian evolution is true; if you say it isn't, you're being arrogant.

Right, TryingtoConvert?
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« Reply #100 on: November 27, 2010, 09:14:06 PM »

We are just a speck in the universe, why would God even make an entire universe why would we place any significance on ourselves?

Since when does size correlate to something's significance?

So to speak.
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« Reply #101 on: November 27, 2010, 09:14:48 PM »

 Wink
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« Reply #102 on: November 27, 2010, 09:18:48 PM »

Fact is, that little dot as far as we know is the only spot in all the universe that matters. There is no evidence of different worlds, and is is an act of faith, rather than a statement of fact, to postulate otherwise.

So what happens when we discover other worlds with people?
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« Reply #103 on: November 27, 2010, 09:20:52 PM »

Hmmm, probably nothing (but you'll definitely be hearing an "Awesome!" from me).  What are you getting at though?  Why would it matter if there were other civilizations with other creatures?
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« Reply #104 on: November 27, 2010, 09:22:08 PM »

Because if humans are God's best creation, then why would other lifeforms be there?

are you saying that jesus could sacrifice himself in other worlds too if sin existed?
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« Reply #105 on: November 27, 2010, 09:25:07 PM »

Because if humans are God's best creation, then why would other lifeforms be there?

are you saying that jesus could sacrifice himself in other worlds too if sin existed?

Because God likes to create?  There are other lifeforms on Earth, why not elsewhere?

And I'm not going to speculate about what God might or might not do with other possible creatures in the universe that may or may not be made in His image.  It's irrelevant to me and my life and a speculation like this doesn't determine the truth value of my faith.  Do you expect it to?
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« Reply #106 on: November 27, 2010, 09:28:01 PM »

I guess so, to me it would lose significance, you don't think it would cause a crisis at all within Orthodoxy?
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« Reply #107 on: November 27, 2010, 09:30:12 PM »

I guess so, to me it would lose significance, you don't think it would cause a crisis at all within Orthodoxy?
Nobody knows the answer to how the human race will react to aliens.
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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« Reply #108 on: November 27, 2010, 09:31:43 PM »

It would be chaos you don't think at first? It could only help it would unify us as a whole in the end.
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« Reply #109 on: November 27, 2010, 09:38:49 PM »

So what if we were to beevolved from monkeys, does that mean we weren't made in the likeness of God or in His image?
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« Reply #110 on: November 27, 2010, 11:03:10 PM »

So what if we were to beevolved from monkeys, does that mean we weren't made in the likeness of God or in His image?

No
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« Reply #111 on: November 27, 2010, 11:21:01 PM »

Why not? Did he not make man from dust?
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« Reply #112 on: November 27, 2010, 11:33:20 PM »

Being made in the image and likeness of God is an entirely different issue than evolution.  They don't rule each other out.
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« Reply #113 on: November 27, 2010, 11:37:45 PM »

Being made in the image and likeness of God is an entirely different issue than evolution.  They don't rule each other out.

What about now extinct sub-species groups that existed only relatively recently (Neanderthal among others) who had graves dug and adorn with flowers?
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« Reply #114 on: November 27, 2010, 11:41:02 PM »

You claim your religion is the correct one, is that not arrogant? How do you know its the correct one?

There are lots of (non-arrogant) reasons why I believe this, but do you really want to get into them or are you just being facetious?

I am genuinely interested.

How do you propose they don't rule each other out?
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« Reply #115 on: November 27, 2010, 11:41:26 PM »

That sounds intriguing! But I'm not sure what you're asking, to be honest. Smiley

Are you asking how such creatures could do such things if they weren't made in the image of God?
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« Reply #116 on: November 27, 2010, 11:47:15 PM »

I am genuinely interested.

How do you propose they don't rule each other out?

I would say my general attitude, rather than one of arrogance, is one of humility.  I was an atheist before I converted to Christianity.  And I simply followed where the evidence led.  I didn't find nearly enough in the other major world religions to warrant the amount of research I found was necessary to convince me of the truth of Christianity.

Some here may not like this, but I'd honestly have to say that, while there are certain aspects of Christianity that are of an objective, verifiable nature, it is ultimately a subjective truth, experienced as the Person of Jesus Christ.  So, for me, Christianity is the only true religion, but I'd never claim that I could objectively prove such a thing to you, because that's just not the kind of thing we're talking about here.  You cannot objectively prove the nature or status of a relationship.  It's not the kind of thing that can be studied that way.
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« Reply #117 on: November 27, 2010, 11:48:00 PM »

You claim your religion is the correct one, is that not arrogant? How do you know its the correct one?

There are lots of (non-arrogant) reasons why I believe this, but do you really want to get into them or are you just being facetious?

I am genuinely interested.

How do you propose they don't rule each other out?

Well one person says 2+2=4 and another says 2+2=8.  They don't cancel each other out just because each makes a claim to truth. One is right, and the other is wrong.
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« Reply #118 on: November 27, 2010, 11:48:11 PM »

That sounds intriguing! But I'm not sure what you're asking, to be honest. Smiley

Are you asking how such creatures could do such things if they weren't made in the image of God?

In a way. If they were religious, they believed in some sort of divine. Were they praying in vain? Did they have a soul? Is God for them, too? Did God abandon them? Why are they not in the creation story?  
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« Reply #119 on: November 27, 2010, 11:52:57 PM »

I wouldn't rule them out as being "post-Breathed-Upon" if you will, haha.  But I'm not a creationist (in terms of special, 6-day creationism) so it doesn't really cause a problem for me.  My simple answer would be "I have no idea."  That's for God to sort out!  I don't think the creation narrative in Genesis is even trying to answer these types of questions.
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« Reply #120 on: November 27, 2010, 11:54:25 PM »

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Why are they not in the creation story?  

The creation story could potentially have gone on for umpteen pages. How many pages do we need? How much did we have to see, to understand that it was God doing it, and for His glory? It doesn't make me think I'm lacking anything because every living thing isn't listed like an entry in the phone book.
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« Reply #121 on: November 27, 2010, 11:58:16 PM »

Quote from: biro link=topic=31604.msg499767#msg499767 date= 1290916465
Quote from: Azurestone
Why are they not in the creation story?  

The creation story could potentially have gone on for umpteen pages. How many pages do we need?
Umpteen, apparently.  Grin
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« Reply #122 on: November 28, 2010, 12:02:52 AM »

Quote from: Azurestone
Umpteen, apparently.  Grin

You do. I don't. Speak for yourself. The Bible doesn't contain long discourses on how to repair a car, but that doesn't make me give up on it, either. That's not why I look to the Bible in the first place.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #123 on: November 28, 2010, 12:07:02 AM »

Quote from: Azurestone
Umpteen, apparently.  Grin

You do. I don't. Speak for yourself. The Bible doesn't contain long discourses on how to repair a car, but that doesn't make me give up on it, either. That's not why I look to the Bible in the first place.  Roll Eyes

I'm kidding! (notice smiley)

Besides, I'm often sarcastic or raise points for discussion and make others think, not necessarily because I don't have an answer.
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« Reply #124 on: November 28, 2010, 12:16:21 AM »

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« Reply #125 on: November 28, 2010, 12:59:04 AM »



Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Fact is, that little dot as far as we know is the only spot in all the universe that matters. There is no evidence of different worlds, and is is an act of faith, rather than a statement of fact, to postulate otherwise.

So what happens when we discover other worlds with people?
Being made in the image and likeness of God is an entirely different issue than evolution.  They don't rule each other out.

What about now extinct sub-species groups that existed only relatively recently (Neanderthal among others) who had graves dug and adorn with flowers?
Who are we to comprehend the Mind of God? In Job, God humbles Job by pointing out it is He alone who forms and functions all of Creation, all of any Creation, all of any of the 11 dimensions postulated in the Multiverse model of String Theory.  In Orthodox we are not so self-righteously sure of ourselves, we are not scientists, we are theologians, we adjust our understanding of the world as God reveals it unto us, and we never make the presumption to know anything but the revelations of God through His Grace alone.  If God created 11 universes and a billion worlds and a trillion civilizations what is it to us? How does it change anything? Maybe for those who cling to literalist misinterpretation of Scripture or listening to too many Pat Roberston sermons but in Orthodox, we worship God, and follow all of God.  We follow the Mysteries as given to us by revelation, instituted by His own hand, given by hand down the generations from the Apostles unto this day.  Things change, only God knows anything, we just pray for His Will and do our best.  God is a Mystery, we do not try to understand Him, we try to experience Him and live constantly in

Because if humans are God's best creation, then why would other lifeforms be there?

are you saying that jesus could sacrifice himself in other worlds too if sin existed?

In Orthodox we teach that Jesus died for all of Creation, not simply humans alone.  For EVERYTHING, for in all came into pass of and through Jesus Christ, whatever is there, it is of Jesus Christ and saved through Jesus Christ, period.


I guess so, to me it would lose significance, you don't think it would cause a crisis at all within Orthodoxy?
Don't worry, in 2000 years we have not been short of any crises Wink, and surely we could survive any more in God's Grace.   

You say Holy Tradition, what does that even mean?
The Holy Tradition is all of the divinely inspired activity of the Church.  This includes the calendar, the Scriptural canon, the Ecumenical Canon, Synod Resolutions, oral traditions, Mariology, architecture, iconography, incense, bells, hymnals, instruments, vestments, Liturgy, prayer books, sacred geography, the writings of the Church Fathers, and even Imperial Edicts in some jurisdictions.  

These things we hold together in equal veneration as the Bible.  The Calvinists and the Puritans precisely wanted to do away with these in favor only of "the Bible" but there is not truly even a universal  Biblical canon amongst ANY tradition or denomination (even amongst Protestants, Pentecostals, Unitarians, Orthodox, Catholics, etc).  Luther was content only with reformation, but the Protestants of the American traditions are almost vitriolically opposed to the Holy Tradition.

In the Church, we use the Holy Tradition to understand the "Bible" and the "Bible" to understand the Holy Tradition, but both are interpreted through active worship and participation in the Mysteries and Holy Spirit.  Our aim is to be close to and to worship God, nothing more, nothing less, not necessarily to be wise, or moral, or saved, but truly to turn to God, and worship Him with all of heart, all of our soul, and all of our comprehension and to learn to say in sincerity and humility, "Father, let Thy Will be done and not our own" and also "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner."




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« Reply #126 on: November 29, 2010, 03:13:53 AM »

You claim your religion is the correct one, is that not arrogant? How do you know its the correct one?

There are lots of (non-arrogant) reasons why I believe this, but do you really want to get into them or are you just being facetious?

I am genuinely interested.

How do you propose they don't rule each other out?

Well one person says 2+2=4 and another says 2+2=8.  They don't cancel each other out just because each makes a claim to truth. One is right, and the other is wrong.

 
ialmisry i couldn't have put it better myself.
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« Reply #127 on: November 29, 2010, 10:45:30 AM »

You claim your religion is the correct one, is that not arrogant? How do you know its the correct one?

There are lots of (non-arrogant) reasons why I believe this, but do you really want to get into them or are you just being facetious?

I am genuinely interested.

How do you propose they don't rule each other out?

Well one person says 2+2=4 and another says 2+2=8.  They don't cancel each other out just because each makes a claim to truth. One is right, and the other is wrong.

 
ialmisry i couldn't have put it better myself.

Especially since 2+2=8.
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« Reply #128 on: November 29, 2010, 03:32:58 PM »

We are just a speck in the universe, why would God even make an entire universe why would we place any significance on ourselves?
I am not sure why you think that size determines significance. The H1N1 virus is tiny but it was quite significant last year at this time.
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Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
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« Reply #129 on: November 29, 2010, 03:38:43 PM »

Wait wait wait, did you actually say that his religion is the ONLY "correct" one? Such beautiful, stunning arrogance

When the US President signs a bill into law, it is not arrogance for him to enforce it with the full power of the US government (btw, I think the present holder of the office is one of the most arrogant persons on the face of the earth. But that's a different issue). He has that authority.  It is arrogance for others to claim that authority.

It is not arrogance to confess the existence of the Truth. If that fact bothers you, that is your problem.

Quote
. I'm reminded again of the late great Sagan.
Quote
From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of particular interest. But for us, it's different. Look again at that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
Now who's being arrogant.

Fact is, that little dot as far as we know is the only spot in all the universe that matters. There is no evidence of different worlds, and is is an act of faith, rather than a statement of fact, to postulate otherwise.

Well, I won't argue with you that Obama is quite possibly an arrogant man. But the fact that Sagan was "great" based on his scientific achievements alone is hardly arguable. And I shouldn't think I need remind you that "arrogance" is a term applied to one's own self-importance, something I have never bestowed upon my own character. There is a reason I called yours "beautiful." To dismiss the legitimacy of another's religion (which may have guided and enriched one's own life on a personal basis, to an extent no less than yours did) merely because it disagrees with your own, and completely oblivious to or ignorant of the follies of such thinking, reaches such astounding heights of textbook arrogance that I dare say you are among the best trolls the internet has yet produced. So in that context (and together with your statement that "there is no evidence of different worlds", when in fact there is ample evidence), disregard everything I've said and pat yourself on the back.Wink
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« Reply #130 on: November 29, 2010, 03:42:08 PM »

The Holy Tradition is all of the divinely inspired activity of the Church.  This includes the calendar, the Scriptural canon, the Ecumenical Canon, Synod Resolutions, oral traditions, Mariology, architecture, iconography, incense, bells, hymnals, instruments, vestments, Liturgy, prayer books, sacred geography, the writings of the Church Fathers, and even Imperial Edicts in some jurisdictions.  

These things we hold together in equal veneration as the Bible.  The Calvinists and the Puritans precisely wanted to do away with these in favor only of "the Bible" but there is not truly even a universal  Biblical canon amongst ANY tradition or denomination (even amongst Protestants, Pentecostals, Unitarians, Orthodox, Catholics, etc).  Luther was content only with reformation, but the Protestants of the American traditions are almost vitriolically opposed to the Holy Tradition.

In the Church, we use the Holy Tradition to understand the "Bible" and the "Bible" to understand the Holy Tradition, but both are interpreted through active worship and participation in the Mysteries and Holy Spirit.  Our aim is to be close to and to worship God, nothing more, nothing less, not necessarily to be wise, or moral, or saved, but truly to turn to God, and worship Him with all of heart, all of our soul, and all of our comprehension and to learn to say in sincerity and humility, "Father, let Thy Will be done and not our own" and also "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner."

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Hmm very interesting, in Orthodoxy what kind of proof can you attest to the existence of Christ and his Resurrection?
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Marc1152
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« Reply #131 on: November 29, 2010, 04:12:11 PM »

The Holy Tradition is all of the divinely inspired activity of the Church.  This includes the calendar, the Scriptural canon, the Ecumenical Canon, Synod Resolutions, oral traditions, Mariology, architecture, iconography, incense, bells, hymnals, instruments, vestments, Liturgy, prayer books, sacred geography, the writings of the Church Fathers, and even Imperial Edicts in some jurisdictions.  

These things we hold together in equal veneration as the Bible.  The Calvinists and the Puritans precisely wanted to do away with these in favor only of "the Bible" but there is not truly even a universal  Biblical canon amongst ANY tradition or denomination (even amongst Protestants, Pentecostals, Unitarians, Orthodox, Catholics, etc).  Luther was content only with reformation, but the Protestants of the American traditions are almost vitriolically opposed to the Holy Tradition.

In the Church, we use the Holy Tradition to understand the "Bible" and the "Bible" to understand the Holy Tradition, but both are interpreted through active worship and participation in the Mysteries and Holy Spirit.  Our aim is to be close to and to worship God, nothing more, nothing less, not necessarily to be wise, or moral, or saved, but truly to turn to God, and worship Him with all of heart, all of our soul, and all of our comprehension and to learn to say in sincerity and humility, "Father, let Thy Will be done and not our own" and also "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner."

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Hmm very interesting, in Orthodoxy what kind of proof can you attest to the existence of Christ and his Resurrection?

1. References by the Jewish Historian Josephus

2. The Apostles all except one gave their lives. If it were not True and they had made it all up, then their actions don't compute.

How would that conversation among them have gone?

"Okay fellas, lets make up a story that the Messiah was with us, died and was resurrected. THEN, we go around the known world talking about it, eventually each of us will either be burned alive, skinned, beheaded or Crucified...  Sounds pretty cool huh?  Whose in ! "
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 04:12:47 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
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« Reply #132 on: November 29, 2010, 04:27:25 PM »

Hmm very interesting, in Orthodoxy what kind of proof can you attest to the existence of Christ and his Resurrection?


There's ample historical evidence.  In fact, this is what converted me from atheism to Christianity.
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #133 on: November 29, 2010, 04:31:50 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
The Holy Tradition is all of the divinely inspired activity of the Church.  This includes the calendar, the Scriptural canon, the Ecumenical Canon, Synod Resolutions, oral traditions, Mariology, architecture, iconography, incense, bells, hymnals, instruments, vestments, Liturgy, prayer books, sacred geography, the writings of the Church Fathers, and even Imperial Edicts in some jurisdictions.  

These things we hold together in equal veneration as the Bible.  The Calvinists and the Puritans precisely wanted to do away with these in favor only of "the Bible" but there is not truly even a universal  Biblical canon amongst ANY tradition or denomination (even amongst Protestants, Pentecostals, Unitarians, Orthodox, Catholics, etc).  Luther was content only with reformation, but the Protestants of the American traditions are almost vitriolically opposed to the Holy Tradition.

In the Church, we use the Holy Tradition to understand the "Bible" and the "Bible" to understand the Holy Tradition, but both are interpreted through active worship and participation in the Mysteries and Holy Spirit.  Our aim is to be close to and to worship God, nothing more, nothing less, not necessarily to be wise, or moral, or saved, but truly to turn to God, and worship Him with all of heart, all of our soul, and all of our comprehension and to learn to say in sincerity and humility, "Father, let Thy Will be done and not our own" and also "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner."

stay blessed,
habte selassie


Hmm very interesting, in Orthodoxy what kind of proof can you attest to the existence of Christ and his Resurrection?

In Orthodox, we seldom have proof of anything, nor is it required, and rarely is it an issue.  We do not try to intellectually or logically follow God, or follow the Orthodox Tradition because it is sensible, reasonable, or any such things, rather we call it the Orthodox Faith for a reason Wink
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
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« Reply #134 on: November 29, 2010, 04:36:39 PM »

While I don't fully agree with this, HabteSelassie, I think you bring up a very good point.  I have found in my conversations with atheists that they become very frustrated when they find out Christianity is not like other things that can be dissected and studied.  They keep arguing with it as if it were.

It's like being angry at a painting because it isn't a math equation.

I cannot prove to anyone that my wife loves me.  It is something that can only be experienced in close, personal union.
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