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Author Topic: Bible - true?  (Read 619 times) Average Rating: 0
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Azul
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« on: September 03, 2012, 03:00:21 AM »

Why would the bible be true?Why would the bible be the ultimate ethalon/guideliness?Present arguments.
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2012, 01:09:28 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Why would the bible be true?Why would the bible be the ultimate ethalon/guideliness?Present arguments.

As a concise review of world history, the Bible is perhaps the most academically and scholarly scrutinized, analyzed, studied, criticized, dissected, cross-referenced and most of this as concluded that the historicity of actual events, that is to say the names and dates and places, are probably quite accurate.  Obviously fundamental characters such as the Patriarchs or even King David are not provable one way or the other at this point, however, those names and dates and places which can have been.  It is the supernatural and spiritual realities of the Bible that are rightfully reserved for matters of Faith. In this way, the Bible doesn't have to be true at all, I'm  not quite sure being true in the rational sense is exactly what the Bible is for in the first place.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 03:03:39 PM »

For us because the Church has declared it is true by carefully examining it in accordance with the rest of the Holy Tradition. For Protestanta, they would probably just use those circular arguments about how the Bible is 'infallible' or 'Divinely inspired' specifically because the Bible says something which led them to those conclusions. They use Bible passages to try and support a view about the Bible's status. Kind of circular and fallacious to me.
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2012, 12:15:05 AM »

For a simple answer, there is evidence of many of the historical personages in it.  Solomon for example.
It lists legit cities that exist and the fact the Romans ruled over the Jews.

Just on those small examples it gives it some credibility.   With all the other authors and historical connections to the bible, it would be hard to say "how can the bible not be true".
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 03:28:35 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Why would the bible be true?Why would the bible be the ultimate ethalon/guideliness?Present arguments.

As a concise review of world history, the Bible is perhaps the most academically and scholarly scrutinized, analyzed, studied, criticized, dissected, cross-referenced and most of this as concluded that the historicity of actual events, that is to say the names and dates and places, are probably quite accurate.  Obviously fundamental characters such as the Patriarchs or even King David are not provable one way or the other at this point, however, those names and dates and places which can have been.  It is the supernatural and spiritual realities of the Bible that are rightfully reserved for matters of Faith. In this way, the Bible doesn't have to be true at all, I'm  not quite sure being true in the rational sense is exactly what the Bible is for in the first place.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I think there might be a hole in using faith as an argument, just like you did about the existence of Jesus. I haven't figured it out yet but it strikes me as something unpleasant.
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2012, 03:55:04 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I think there might be a hole in using faith as an argument, just like you did about the existence of Jesus. I haven't figured it out yet but it strikes me as something unpleasant.



Wink

Even in academic history, much of what we assert as "fact" is really a matter of faith in the assumptions and methodology.  Sometimes new discoveries point out the mistakes in our previous perspective, this change over time is called historiography.  The historiography of Jesus and of the Bible changes over time, but the actual history and events which took place do not, merely the accuracy of our recollection and collective memory.  So to me, it does not seem much of a problem to assert that believing in Jesus is a matter of faith, in all actuality believing in William Shakespeare or William the Lionheart is really about the same in regards to the sterility of logic and reason.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2012, 04:31:59 PM »

Even in academic history, much of what we assert as "fact" is really a matter of faith in the assumptions and methodology.  Sometimes new discoveries point out the mistakes in our previous perspective, this change over time is called historiography.  The historiography of Jesus and of the Bible changes over time, but the actual history and events which took place do not, merely the accuracy of our recollection and collective memory.  So to me, it does not seem much of a problem to assert that believing in Jesus is a matter of faith, in all actuality believing in William Shakespeare or William the Lionheart is really about the same in regards to the sterility of logic and reason.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

But couldn't I say believing in Mithras is a matter of faith though? I mean that can apply to anything.

The thing is that Jesus Christ enacted historically in time and space. And I think there is excellent evidence outside of faith for example the Resurrection account. I just don't buy the argument that Jesus Christ doesn't exist outside of faith.
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2012, 07:27:00 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


I just don't buy the argument that Jesus Christ doesn't exist outside of faith.

Nothing actually exists as we think or assume to know it aside from faith.


But couldn't I say believing in Mithras is a matter of faith though? I mean that can apply to anything.


See, now my brother, you've stumbled into some deep realms of Existentialism Wink

This is precisely the logical fault in the scholastic approach to theology, the rational mind simply can't accept some of the facts of reality, we are pattern seeking animals, it is much easier to believe in the truth of the symbols and patters we've constructed in our minds rather then experience the underlying mystic reality which they represent.  Even what we learn in physics tells us that what we perceive with our senses isn't really an accurate portrait of reality as it exists, but how our brains can make sense of all the data.  Our collective memory of the past is similarly complex, and is as much a symbol of what we think about the past as any attempt at an accurate reconstruction.  

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 07:29:53 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2012, 07:37:17 PM »

Creepy.
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 07:38:44 PM »

Ok I think I am understanding you more clearly in how you define faith and how that relates to reality.
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 10:35:13 PM »

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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 10:43:46 PM »

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