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Author Topic: we don't exactly get judged when we die?  (Read 1257 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: November 22, 2010, 08:31:41 PM »

I don't know. ISTM the Gospels certainly don't whitewash the agony of Christ's Passion on the Cross, but they also don't make as much of the Passion as the hagiographic texts do of the saints, either. In the end, it seems that all the Gospel writers see the Passion in connection with and in the context of its fulfillment in the Resurrection. Christ IS risen! For the saints, however, this is a promise and a foretaste of their future resurrections, so we emphasize more how much they suffered for Christ that they might rise with Him on the Last Day.

So wait when we die, we don't exactly get judged then (either we go to Paradise or to a 'chasm of darkness?')? I know there is two judgments one after death and the final judgment, I guess I'm confused.
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 11:18:31 PM »

I don't know. ISTM the Gospels certainly don't whitewash the agony of Christ's Passion on the Cross, but they also don't make as much of the Passion as the hagiographic texts do of the saints, either. In the end, it seems that all the Gospel writers see the Passion in connection with and in the context of its fulfillment in the Resurrection. Christ IS risen! For the saints, however, this is a promise and a foretaste of their future resurrections, so we emphasize more how much they suffered for Christ that they might rise with Him on the Last Day.

So wait when we die, we don't exactly get judged then (either we go to Paradise or to a 'chasm of darkness?')? I know there is two judgments one after death and the final judgment, I guess I'm confused.

Achronos,

After death we are judged and sent to Hades, either to experience a foretaste of the glory to come in Heaven or a foretaste of the second death in the Lake of Fire. Disembodied, the saints intercede for us on our behalf to Christ and await the day of his "Second and most glorious coming again." On that day, all shall rise bodily, reunited with their flesh and wholly restored. We are then judged according to our deeds and receive eternal life in Heaven with Christ or eternal death in Hell.

The first judgment is typically called the "particular judgment" while the second is, fittingly, referred to as the "last judgment." Make sense?
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« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 11:40:00 PM »

We shall all rise bodily...you mean symbolically or their flesh will come back even though it has been decomposed on Earth?

Why do the saints intervene on our behalf?

And we don't get to see God?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 11:40:55 PM by Achronos » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 03:14:59 AM »

We shall all rise bodily...you mean symbolically or their flesh will come back even though it has been decomposed on Earth?

what I was taught was that we DO get new bodies, in place of our old.  it's like, when Christ rose from the dead.  he was in the same body but looked different.  the same shall be with us. we know Christ will come from the East, this is why we are buried facing east, so when we get up out of our graves, we'll be facing him.  this is also why our Churches face east, so that, it Christ should return while we are in Church, we will be facing him.
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2010, 05:30:07 AM »

I've heard judgment being expressed in passive terms before. That is, Christ's presence alone is judgment, and we are either drawn to him or we flee from him.

Is judgment active or passive on the part of God, or both?
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2010, 03:28:26 PM »

We shall all rise bodily...you mean symbolically or their flesh will come back even though it has been decomposed on Earth?

I mean literally. Our flesh shall be restored to us and reunited to our spirits, which await that resurrection in Paradise. St. Paul speaks of "spiritual bodies" (soma pneumatos) in the resurrection. We see what some of this may mean through the resurrected Christ, who was in the flesh (he did not receive a new flesh, for if he had, his old body would still be in the tomb. But, the tomb is empty...it is the same flesh! However, it is "new" and "spiritual." I guess a good way to say it in Orthodox terminology would be, "our bodies will be fully divinized." For the break of communion with God caused by the Fall shall be removed.

Why do the saints intervene on our behalf?

In mentioning this, I meant to highlight the activity of the departed saints (both those revealed to the Church and those only known by God) while they await the resurrection. The departed faithful (what the Roman church would call the "Church Triumphant") pray and intercede before Christ on behalf of those who are still living (what the Latins would call the "Church Militant").

And we don't get to see God?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you mean, prior to the final resurrection...I would tend to say yes. While I believe this would be theologumena and not established doctrine of the Church, the Gospels record in the parable that Lazarus, the begger who had died, was seated in Paradise at the right hand of Abraham. In the Apocalypse of St. John, the prayers of the departed saints (the martyrs specifically, who were the only saints as we understand them today, at the writing of the book) rise before the very thone of God:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." (Rev. 6:9-11).

« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 03:30:32 PM by Benjamin the Red » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2010, 03:33:32 PM »

Is it meaningful to discuss about time after death?
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