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Offline sinjinsmythe

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Orthodox perspective on dating
« on: December 02, 2002, 03:17:17 PM »
I was wondering if there are any good sources(such as the Holy Fathers, the Holy Bible) on dating from the Orthodox perspective. There is a lot of dating advice out there for Christians but all of it comes from the Protestant, evangelical point of view. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.

One thing that I have found so far is that the Orthodox church does not have much advice on this topic.  It seems whenever I ask people about this they either say 'don't' or 'God will provide someone for you.'  I find that it is deemed something bad by Christians to want to court the opposite sex.
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Offline Robert

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2002, 03:56:36 PM »
Well I can take the "apophatic" dating route and tell you exactly what NOT to do, based on prior experience.

 :)

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2002, 05:07:58 PM »
Dear Sin Jin,

The modern version fo dating is rather new, so I don't think you'll find words of the Church Fathers on it. God Bless!
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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2002, 06:10:07 PM »
Nik's comment raises an interesting question.  What, exactly, is the modern version of dating?  I've only known one kind, and I suspect it is the modern one (I'm not terribly ancient).  What, then, is the older version?  If we establish what these things are, perhaps we can get to some basic Orthodox principles that would relate to this important topic.
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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2002, 06:44:51 PM »
Nik's comment raises an interesting question.  What, exactly, is the modern version of dating?  I've only known one kind, and I suspect it is the modern one (I'm not terribly ancient).  What, then, is the older version?  If we establish what these things are, perhaps we can get to some basic Orthodox principles that would relate to this important topic.

I think that if we look to the Scriptures, and the OT in particular, we'll find for the most part that the "dating" was equivalent to a betrothal and was usually arranged by relatives, especially parents.  In the NT, the betrothal of the Blessed Ever-Virgin Mary to St. Joseph the Betrothed comes to mind immediately.  Most young people would be unwilling to put up with arranged marriages today, despite statistics which attest to their success rate.   Would you?

Hypo-Ortho (involved in a 33-year-long marriage "arranged" behind my back by a well-meaning European-born grandmother, European-born mother-in-law and my European-born brother-in-law ["Why aren't you dating my sister?  You're my best friend!"])

Offline sinjinsmythe

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2002, 06:56:29 PM »
Nik's comment raises an interesting question.  What, exactly, is the modern version of dating?  I've only known one kind, and I suspect it is the modern one (I'm not terribly ancient).  What, then, is the older version?  If we establish what these things are, perhaps we can get to some basic Orthodox principles that would relate to this important topic.

I agree with you totally Mor Ephrem.  I am looking for some basic Orthodox principles relating to this.  I am sure someone somewhere in the church has written about this topic.  

Bobby, what should one not do in dating? ???
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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2002, 06:57:58 PM »
Mor Ephrem,

I think what Nik was talking about was that prior to a certain point in Western Civilization(I'd probably pinpoint it sometime within the roaring 20s) teenage women were married off to older successful men by their parents.  Arranged marraige is still practiced in some parts of the world(especially in Asia).  In a system of arranged marriage, it is probable that the parents wouldn't let their daughter spend time among suitors except in events like debutante balls.  Anything else might risk deflowering their daughter, which would lower her choices considerably.  

Of course, courting as we know probably occurred earlier, as in the novels of Jane Austen, but I think arranged marriage was de rigeur until recent times.  Now it seems that in our youth we marry another young adult and must struggle until we are financially established, but you also see adults waiting until their 30s to marry, and you see young women marrying older men and vice versa.  

I'm probably firmly camped in the waiting until older camp.  I'm 24 and a few years behind in my education(I went out to see the world and find God) so it'll be another 3-4 years before I'm ready to fiancially bear getting married.  I greatly look forward to it, though. :)
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Offline SamB

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2002, 07:02:13 PM »
Why aren't you dating my sister?  You're my best friend!

How could you be so irresponsible as to force your brother in law to have to say something like that and remind you of proper dating protocol?

So uncouth of you Hypo-Ortho.  :)

So, did you at least have the good part of that "arranged" package and marry at an appropriately young age (twenty, twenty one years of age), or at least before your hair turned gray or partial baldness set in?  Believe me, the way many of us are busy in this day and age, it takes that long to tie the knot.

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2002, 07:04:16 PM by SamB »

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2002, 07:04:04 PM »
Yes I meant both arranged marriages and courting were what was used prior to the 20's to 40's era when this new version of dating became the norm. God Bless!
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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2002, 07:06:03 PM »
Why aren't you dating my sister?  You're my best friend!

How could you be so irresponsible as to force your brother in law to have to say something like that and remind you of proper dating protocol?

So uncouth of you Hypo-Ortho.  :)

So, did you at least have the good part of that "arranged" package and marry at an appropriately young age (twenty, twenty one years of age), or at least before your hair turned gray or partial baldness set in?  Believe me, the way many of us are busy in this day and age, it takes that long to tie the knot.

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I was 24, Samer, and still a virgin, even after graduating from college and serving in the Navy!

Actually, I was very much attracted to my then future wife, but was afraid to make a move until my then future brother-in-law asked that question.  I wanted to marry no one else but my then future wife from the very first time I had set my eyes on her.  So, in this case, "arranged" or not, this marriage is exactly what I wanted.

Hypo-Ortho
« Last Edit: December 02, 2002, 07:13:29 PM by Hypo-Ortho »

Offline Robert

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2002, 07:18:15 PM »
If you wait till your financially ready, you'll be waiting forever. It'll never happen. Unless u fancy getting married in your 40s or 50s.

Quote
Bobby, what should one not do in dating?


Women (regardless of jurisdiction) in general like men who are clean, smell nice, dress nicely, and have an element of class about them.
Make sure you purchase a nice bottle of cologne(a good investment), buy a nice pair of slacks, black or khaki, and please, don't wear a T-shirt out. Also, get in shape, watch the diet, do yourself a health favor.

The bottom line is(like the boy scout motto) BE PREPARED. You'll never know when you might meet or see a girl who catches your eye. This means make sure you're always clean and presentable.

As far as meeting girls at church, dream on. Yes, dream on. I'd absolutely love to get with some Orthodox women, but for me thats impractical since there are very few girls my age who attend an Orthodox church. From demographics I've pulled from other guys my age, it seems this is a problem all over. Not that it can't happen, just dont put all your eggs in one basket.

The best place to meet girls, in my opinion, are in college(stay away from the liberal feminazis, characterized by short hair and facial hair), or at places you like to go, or by friends. If you really are adventurous, you can walk up to a group of girls and just start talking. What do you have to lose? If things go badly, cut your losses and move on.

Call me non-orthodox, secular or heterodox. But the bottom line is, doing this stuff will increase your social skills, increase your confidence and character, and expose you to inevitable rejection by some girls. This is all good for you!

The whole courtship thing(in my opinion) is rather goofy and medieval. The bottom line is, nothing gained nothing earned. Make an effort and you will be duly rewarded. Just remember to respect boundaries, don't do anything stupid, and with time you just might be able to get her to come with you to church on sunday.

Bobby

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2002, 07:29:16 PM »
I think Bobby just came up with the first Orthodox theology of dating...

:P
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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2002, 07:33:43 PM »
Yes I meant both arranged marriages and courting were what was used prior to the 20's to 40's era when this new version of dating became the norm. God Bless!

What is the difference between "dating" and "courting"?  And what is "this new version of dating"?  I guess I want to try and steer this discussion towards establishing what these things all are and what they mean before we can evaluate them through an Orthodox lens.  Some of us may know the difference, and others (like me) may not get it completely.  Can we get these things straight before moving on?    

As for arranged marriages, yes, they can work, but they can also be miserable...I've seen examples of both.  I wonder, though, what everyone here thinks of when they think of the concept of "arranged marriage".  From my personal experience, I know that the perception many Americans have of arranged marriages is different from reality.
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Offline Robert

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2002, 07:40:28 PM »
Courtship - You get involved in each others lives, parents, social activities,  families, and everything. It's (excuse the vulgarity) queer. There are aspects of my life that I don't want a girl I'm dating to know or get involved in. Especially early on. I really don't want to have to get involved in a girl's family early on either. Dating saves the surprises for later(Your girlfriend's uncle harry who's a hermaphrodite)

People contend that with dating you don't really get to know each other and is morally improper. I contend their opinions are BS.
As long as your're not engaging in premarital sex(a big NO NO in Christianity), you're having a fun time, making good conversation, laughing, and acting your age, I see nothing wrong with dating.

Again I say to you as in my last post. Make yourself nice and presentable, and go get em tiger. Theres plenty of nice girls out there waiting.

Bobby

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2002, 08:19:34 PM »
Bobby you're beginning to sound like Dear Abby. :)  But please continue I enjoy your pontifications. :D :D :D

I agree that dating can be a good thing, great even.  You can also go a while without finding out about Aunt Harry but I think it's important to make each other aware of potential dealbreakers up front.  If a girl is bisexual or snorts coke everyday I want to know.
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Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2002, 08:48:07 PM »
Just for a touch on the subjects here is a Protestant site on courtship: http://www.christiancourtship.com/

And a Catholic critique of modern dating and traditional courtship: http://www.theuniversityconcourse.com/V,7,3-27-2000/vanSchaijik.htm

Interestingly Orthodox Jews usually do courting rather than dating as well. You can find tons of data on that by searching Google for Orthodox Courtship

Here is a Orthodox Christian site that touches briefly on courtship as well:
http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/library_en/fam_marriage.html

Also I think that OldWorldRus.com has one in its archive of its news stories, but I can't get the direct link as I have no patience to wait for the bottom of the scrolling news links and neither does my browser, it seems.

Hope this helps. God Bless.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2002, 09:07:48 PM by Nicholas »
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Offline sinjinsmythe

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2002, 09:21:40 PM »
Bobby I want to thank you so much for your advice  :D  Man, you really know what you are talking about especially about finding an Orthodox woman.  I have a better chance of winning the lottery than marrying an Orthodox woman..that is just the way it is here in the US.   About dating, you will find some evangelicals who will say that one should not date because it is not right and that one should wait for God to provide.  I too think that is hogwash.  Nick thanks for the link to the Orthodox site.
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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2002, 09:26:07 PM »
Seeing as how this forum is mostly young male and single...

Maybe we should add an Orthodox Personals section to OC.net. :) :) :)
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Offline Seraphim Reeves

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2002, 10:04:43 PM »
Bobby,

Quote
People contend that with dating you don't really get to know each other and is morally improper. I contend their opinions are BS.
As long as your're not engaging in premarital sex(a big NO NO in Christianity), you're having a fun time, making good conversation, laughing, and acting your age, I see nothing wrong with dating.

From my own limited experience (which is now at an end, seeing as I am engaged and will be getting married in the near future), I would say that as far as I'm concerned, "modern dating" is not ideal, but it's really the only game in town.  Most of us will not be so docile (nor find a woman so docile) so as to be "matched" by our elders, nor would our elders think of doing such a thing anyway, at least not here (in the modern western world...though I do know some people whose families are from Pakistan or India, and were born here, but had their marriages arranged...so it still does happen).

I say "not ideal" for the simple reason that I've found dating as we practice it here, often creates an intimacy (and I'm not talking physical, though the danger is far greater in "dating" than it is in more "traditional" forms of arranged marriage and courtship) which is inappropriate if people are not pretty well dead set on marriage.  Even if one maintains physical chastity, there is a type of emotional chastity and exclusivity which is without a doubt erroded by dating.  This is particularly why, though I know there's not much of a choice for young adults looking for a spouse but to date, I think teen age "social dating" is totally inappropriate.  As far as I'm concerned, unless marriage is a real possibility, no Christian has any business dating.

With that said, what can a young Orthodox Christian man do to find an appropriate spouse?  Well, I think the suggestions you give are pretty good.  One thing I would stress however, is extreme honesty (though tempered by prudence; no point bleeding one's heart all over the place if it isn't sure that the woman one is seeing is going to end up marrying you) is important, as well as making clear who you as an individual are, and what you expect of your life.  This is the harder route, because it creates problems in the short term (perhaps you'll annoy or turn off a young lady early on), but this is a blessing; I'd say be loved and admired for what you are deep down (even with the ugly parts taken into consideration), rather than have the poor girl have to find out things about you later on and become unsure of just who exactly you are.  I know we all want to put the best foot forward (which is of course fine), but it's equally important to "keep it real."

As for nice cologne...I'd suggest Swiss Army.  The chicks love it :) (honestly, I don't particularly like it, but my fiance does, so that's why I put it on some times...I"m more of a Polo or Stetsen kind of guy.)

I believe it's either in the Proverbs or the Wisdom of Solomon...but there's a passage which contrasts a good wife, and a bad one.  The good wife will make you happy beyond compare, but a lousy wife will make you miserable.  Since it's just us guys a talkin', I"ll be frank and say that these are some of the most obviously true words I've read in the Scriptures.  As far as I'm concerned, if the shoe doesn't fit right, it's better to shake it off and get far away, and as early as possible, than to try and "change" someone to how you'd like them to be.  Women are accused of trying that with men, but I think men can be guilty of that as well (particularly if they're men of principle, and want their perhaps non-Orthodox gf to either become Orthodox, or at least be more disposed to their way of thinking.)

A final bit of "wisdom", would simply be that it's not horrible to be single.  Trust me, as the big day comes closer for me, and I have to deal with new responsibilities, I realize that with the nice stuff, comes great sacrifice and suffering (that is of course, if one is noble and does the marriage thing "right", not with the p.o.v. that if it gets rocky, you can just bail out and cut a cheque...or as you Americans would say, "check" :)  ).  Sometimes young single Christians think they're missing out on a lot by not being "involved", but that's not true in every sense.  There are pros and cons to both marriage and single life.  Trust me on this, any single Christian man reading this.  Do you like your freedom?  Do you like your income?  Well, kiss them good bye if you get married.  I'm not trying to pooh-pooh marriage (obviously not, since I've committed my life to someone I love deeply and will be marrying soon), but perhaps like Christ to His Apostles, simply say that if you are a Christian and wish to pursue a good marriage and do things right in that marriage, then be prepared for hardships you didn't dream of (which is why the Apostles replied to the Lord "it seems it's better to never marry at all!"...and remember, Christ did not disagree!)

Seraphim

Offline sinjinsmythe

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2002, 10:30:44 PM »
Seraphim thank you for your great words of wisdom.   Though I have never been one to wear cologne, I can't see myself getting into the habit anytime soon.  But really I know singleness is not a bad thing but the loneliness sometimes can be a real killer.  Especially in our modern society, where if you are not dating something is wrong with you.  But I think a lot of people have these yearnings in their heart to want to bond and form a meaningful friendship and union with the opposite sex.  Singelness can have some real hardships attached to it too just like in marriage.  I think sometimes people forget that marriage is a committment and not so much based on romantic feelings of love.  I have never been married but I can tell from the experience of living with my family as a poor college student that there are some days where you don't feel like loving your mom or dad or sister, do you know what I mean?  I mean they can do some things that really get under my skin after a while.  I am sure marriage can be the same way after a while.  Perhaps that is why the church takes the perspective on marriage that it does, that the man and woman are suppose to love each other just like Christ loves the church.
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Offline Aklie Semaet

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2002, 10:33:59 PM »
I think teen age "social dating" is totally inappropriate. As far as I'm concerned, unless marriage is a real possibility, no Christian has any business dating.

Amen! Thank you!

I"m more of a Polo or Stetsen kind of guy

Oh no, not Stentson; I agree with your fiance, keep the Swiss Army.

I believe it's either in the Proverbs or the Wisdom of Solomon...but there's a passage which contrasts a good wife, and a bad one.

It’s in Proverbs and it is classic, that whole Book should be ceaselessly read by any young man who is ‘getting involved.’ Just from the perspective of male-female relationships, I find something new every time I read Proverbs. Who, after all, has more experience with women than King Solomon? :)

A final bit of "wisdom", would simply be that it's not horrible to be single

Yes, but it can’t go on indefinitely, a decision must be made. It is either chastity to God through marriage or chastity to God through monastic life. A bachelor's life is not the way of a Christian. As they say in Ethiopia “lij be lijenet new” (child in childhood; or have a child while you are still young). Don’t end up being an old man with a walking cane in one hand and a 2 year old son on the other. Old age is for retirement not for child rearing.

Congratulations on your engagement!

God Bless
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Offline Robert

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2002, 12:07:48 AM »
Quote
I'm more of a Polo or Stetsen kind of guy

Oh no, not Stentson; I agree with your fiance, keep the Swiss Army.

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Offline The young fogey

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2002, 01:14:30 AM »
I take a middle ground on this issue between the really ancient-minded/arranged-marriage people and the American relaxed, friendly approach like Bobby's.

A fact the apostolic faith (with the Catholic Church, for example, holding the patristic line on artificial contraception) and conservative Protestants don't flinch from and for which the secular world hates them is that if you can't make a lifetime commitment to raising children* with a husband or wife, you have no business having sex. The secular world, with its contraptions, pills, foams and abortions, says non serviam and through misrepresentation in the entertainment and advertising media continues to lie about the reality of sex (commitment and babies).

Swiss Army, eh? I'll have to check that out. Thanks!

And yes, on my site in the scrolling headlines there is a link to an interview with Connie Marshner, who BTW worships at a Byzantine Catholic church and is conservative, on the subject.

*Waived if you're naturally sterile or, if a woman, older than childbearing years. The procreative part of sex is temporary, but the unitive part ultimately is universal.
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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2002, 01:45:54 AM »
Let me tell you that I was involved in both a dating relationship and an arranged almost-marriage. (I say almost because I realized it was wrong and got out of it, and returned to the love of my life, who is now my wife).

The story is such: I dated my now-wife for 4 years and we broke up a lot and got back together, and yes, from time to time we were naughty.  I'd say the problems in our relationship did definitely stem from or at least get augmented by unchastity.  We had met before I became a Byzantine Catholic so morality wasn't really on our minds.  When I got serious about the faith it was hard.  We made a real effort to stop anything sinful and with lots of prayer.  I never conquered my demons but God let me see my dependence on His grace.

With the problems, my then-girlfriend and I were constantly on the verge of ending things and so when I went to India and some wild things happened (like me and my boss on the trip getting into it and I got fired--don't worry we later made up!) I became attached to an Indian family and yes after a few weeks they proposed marriage and I accepted (I had known them for a year previously from my last trip to India and from writing letters).  I came back to the States and after awhile realized that that was simply not me, not my culture, not going to work, etc.  Bobby is right; sometimes you just do NOT want to get mixed up with the family so early.

My then-ex-girlfriend and I got together and talked out our problems.  I ended things with the Indian girl and a few months later asked my then-girlfriend to marry me.  She accepted and on June 15 of 2002 she became my wife.

I'd say dating is not perfect especially if you cross the line, but courtship/arranged marriage falls into some sort of fantasy construct.  Like Americans who are into Hinduism because it is so spiritual yet never have gone to India and seen people bathe in cow piss (I have!!--and I'm not saying that everyone does that, by the way, cuz they don't).  The point being, it's like a "romanticized" (no pun intended) version of what they think courtship is.  It ain't.  Serge hits the nail on the head: the middle is good.  Some family interraction is good of course, with that increasing as the relationship becomes more serious; but not letting people be alone with one another really doesn't speak much to trust, etc.

Enough with my rant!

In Christ,

anastasios
« Last Edit: December 04, 2002, 01:46:39 AM by anastasios »
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Offline Aklie Semaet

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2002, 11:04:33 PM »
Anastasios,

Thank you for that personal contribution. There is no better instructor than the instructor of personal experience. May you and your wife live long and happy years together.

Now my comments :)  I think it was good that you realized that arranged marriage takes place within a complete cultural context. Often it is not as simple as things like the parents introduce you and that is that. In most cultures arranged marriages mean that the families of the couple also integrate in a way that they were not close before. If you are an American and they are Indian then the social cohesion, relations, and integration expected form the union may not play out as planned. This is because both families operate from different cultural conceptions and don’t necessarily follow the rules of the other.

Also, I was surprised to learn that the family actually suggested you marry their daughter at a time when you say you were unemployed, you must be a very charming fella. :) More power to you bro, more power to you.

But I am a bit confused as to what you and Serge are referring to as the ‘in-between’ of courtship and marriage? It sounds good on these monitor pixels but how does it play out in real life? What does the ‘in-between’ thing look like in practice?

I think that for one serial dating is probably responsible for this American pandemic of serial marriage. The psychological transition that is supposed to take place that notices the difference between a dating life and a married life is not made by many. Also, dating is responsible for the emergence of some of the most fake behavior as people try to impress each other. And just to keep it real, from a male perspective it is a turn off. If a girl tells me she has already had three then I am not taking a second look at her.  

I just think that a groups of Orthodox youth (past 20 years of age) should go out together as a group and interact with each other socially. As time goes by if one is attracted to the other then...well just keep it clean and don’t prolong it. If you think she is the one then discuss it with her and make sure the two of you are in agreement. If you agree then are then send some respectable elders, that know of you and can testify to your character, to her house to request that they allow their daughter to marry you. They will put in a good word, the parents will meet you (assuming that they do not already know you from Church) and consent, then you will be married. What’s so difficult about that? It is not arranged but it is not dating either.

There is a tradition in our Church called Qal kiddan (engagement, agreement, etc.) wherein after what I describe above the couple does not actually become married. They go through a ceremony where the Priest blesses the engagement rings (and yes both men and women wear engagement rings) and they promise to get married at a future date. I have seen this ‘engagement’ last between 1 and 2 years sometimes. Of course there is no hands on during this time only causal outings, etc. :) and this is usually good for students as they are finishing university studies. They are committed so they don’t worry or stress about meeting anyone else or being with anyone and they are also not already tied down to family life that would slow their studies.

Ok that is my little rant.

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Re:Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2002, 11:13:12 PM »
I think that for one serial dating is probably responsible for this American pandemic of serial marriage. The psychological transition that is supposed to take place that notices the difference between a dating life and a married life is not made by many. Also, dating is responsible for the emergence of some of the most fake behavior as people try to impress each other. And just to keep it real, from a male perspective it is a turn off. If a girl tells me she has already had three then I am not taking a second look at her.  

I just think that a groups of Orthodox youth (past 20 years of age) should go out together as a group and interact with each other socially. As time goes by if one is attracted to the other then...well just keep it clean and don’t prolong it. If you think she is the one then discuss it with her and make sure the two of you are in agreement. If you agree then are then send some respectable elders, that know of you and can testify to your character, to her house to request that they allow their daughter to marry you. They will put in a good word, the parents will meet you (assuming that they do not already know you from Church) and consent, then you will be married. What’s so difficult about that? It is not arranged but it is not dating either.

Aklie, you pegged it perfectly! Well said. God Bless!
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Re: Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2011, 04:00:02 AM »
Id like to re open this topic as it is still an issue to many of us.

I personally am not yet Orthodox, I hope to convert into the British Orthodox Church, however i try to present myself as if I am.
As far as the whole dating courtship goes, I "TRY" to do a mix of both. First and foremost if i am interested in a girl I pursue a genuine friendship rather than jump for anything more than. In my experience a friendship is the foundation of any relationship. I actually drag out the friendship phase for a while to really experience the person and eventually their immediate family. Once we have an established friendship i then open it up to becoming a relationship, to me its basically the same thing but now that you have the title a whole new can of worms is opened magically lol. The point of this is to see how you two can handle each other and respond to the more stressful times because i have noticed that once a relationship is into a "serious" stage is when the drama and emotions start to fly. I also establish that the purpose of this is to see if we are compatible for marriage and if she isn't ready then there is still the friendship... I also state that I will convert to Orthodoxy and would then only marry an Orthodox and it generally isn't really rejected by girls... The only problem I have experienced is where I am at now, I have two friend that i really like and would like to take to the next step and i don't know what to look for to make the best choice... im looking up marriage lectures on ancient faith radio to get some pointers and what not lol i figure if i can figure out how a marriage should be i can figure out how to find a partner for that marriage... I hope lol!

Offline Poppy

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Re: Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2011, 07:37:50 AM »
good luck with that.... seems you have got it in all tidy boxes but life don't work like that.... the whole friendship thing is a joke ppl know about other ppl and as much as you might want to pretend its a "friendship" two ppl know whats rli going on lolOl once you get into ANY sort of relationship with someone its tricky. especially if your serious about the whole M word.

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Re: Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2011, 11:05:53 AM »
it has worked for me so far and girls who i was once interested after being friends I realized they weren't what i want and are now still just and only friends....

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Re: Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2011, 03:39:01 AM »
In my experience, when you wait too long with friendship, it becomes irreversible. Of course, I've never been on a date either.
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Re: Orthodox perspective on dating
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2011, 03:45:12 AM »
well there is truth to that as well... but id rather risk that and ensure a relationship is built upon experiencing each other  through a friendship without the pressure of anything else...