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Author Topic: So I tried to defend Orthodoxy to a Protestant...  (Read 1375 times) Average Rating: 0
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TryingtoConvert
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« on: December 30, 2010, 04:24:00 AM »

I tried to tell him that the Roman Church schimised in 1054AD and he said "Rome? There was no Pope in 1054, a title never used until Constantine made Christianity leagal in the early fourth century. There was an orthodox Church in the second century, but no Orthodox Church."

Thought you'd guys might get a kick out of that.
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quietmorning
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2010, 09:57:18 AM »

(From what I was taught in history class in college) the word "Pope" was originally a nick name - . . ."papa" for "Father" (Wikipedia discusses this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope  because both the station and the Patriarch at the time were endeared.  The word stuck, but it is not actually the true title of the station the Pope holds.  

My standard come back for talking to Protestants concerning anything Catholic - Easter, Western, Orthodox or Roman. . .is "the cultural information you've received is inaccurate at best, I suggest that you research the history of the Church through other means than the protestant viewpoints - even secular would be better than what you've received, when you take a true look-see, come back and we'll talk."

Out of curiosity they generally start researching. . .and then we have several worthwhile discussions.  

The stances are so staunch here in the Bible Belt (Southern USA) that anything debatable is only a 'demonic' discourse, and ultimately chucked if not placed in their lap as themselves being responsible to educate themselves.

It's incredibly sad.  
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 09:58:06 AM by quietmorning » Logged

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BethAnna
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2010, 04:00:55 PM »

Pope is indeed a cultural term meaning father. The Patriarch of Alexandria also refers to himself as "Pope". The official titles of the Pope are: Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God
« Last Edit: December 31, 2010, 04:01:59 PM by Thomist » Logged

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orthonorm
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2011, 05:04:15 AM »

Darn. I thought the subject was a set up for a punch line.
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2011, 08:01:30 PM »

Pope is indeed a cultural term meaning father. The Patriarch of Alexandria also refers to himself as "Pope". The official titles of the Pope are: Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God

like the Apollo Creed of Christianity
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katherineofdixie
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2011, 01:01:48 PM »

"There was an orthodox Church in the second century, but no Orthodox Church."


I usually respond, "Yep, that's the one!"
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ialmisry
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2011, 05:17:18 PM »

Pope is indeed a cultural term meaning father. The Patriarch of Alexandria also refers to himself as "Pope".

No, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church refers to him as Pope, and gave him that title long before the bishop of Rome took it upon himself (it is theorized that the usage migrated from Egypt to Africa and thence to Rome).

The official titles of the Pope are: Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God
The official titles of the Pope are "the Pope and Patriarch of the Great City of Alexandria, Libya, Pentapolis, Ethiopia, of All Egypt, and All Africa, Father of Fathers, Shepherd of Shepherds, Highpriest of Highpriests, thirteenth of the Apostles, and Judge of the World."
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 05:17:46 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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                           and both come out of your mouth
Ken T.
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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2011, 06:10:12 PM »

Greetings to Isa Almisry -

I am new - my first time here.  I was recommended to you, by John Norman.  He said you could probably help me.  (sorry it appears that the Greek fonts are not working, but the Arabic/Farsi is working.  I hope it comes out.  May take me a while to learn how to get the fonts right for the forum.)

This is not exactly on the topic but I am a Protestant (Baptist, Reformed/Calvinistic) and you were on line, so I hope you don't mind me asking a language question here.  I have greatly enjoyed discussing theology and church history with John Norman and reading his posts on another com box. 

I have a question about the Arabic (and Farsi/Persian) word for hypostasis -

The Middle Eastern Christians (Evangelicals got it from the Byzantines, eastern Catholics and Orthodox)  that I know – Arabs and Persians – use a word “ugnoom” (or “uqnoom)   اقـنـوم   for hypostasis / hupostasis

 

This word appears to come from the Greek word, “Gnome”  ( gnwmh γνωμη) = “will, purpose, counsel, consciousness, mind, assent, opinion, judgment, discernment, inclination, desire”-

Is this correct? 


Do you know anything about this issue?

Did it come through Syriac? 

Or is it unrelated?


Sincerely,
Ken T.

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Ken T.
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2011, 06:29:13 PM »

By the time I posted, I see he is now offline.  oh well; maybe later you will see my question.

Quiet morning -
You are correct about most Protestants/evangelicals in the south of USA - that is a common problem.

I am enjoying listening to the church history lectures from an Orthodox perspective. (link below) There is much appreciation for many things that we hold in common among Protestants who know church history better than most and want to know church history better than what we are usually taught.

http://www.orthodoxchurchhistory.com/Audio_Lectures.php

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Justin Kissel
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Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2011, 07:17:00 PM »

Welcome to the forum, Ken Smiley
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