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Author Topic: Was Jesus anti-Semetic?  (Read 2929 times) Average Rating: 0
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Marc1152
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« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2010, 04:14:47 PM »

What I get from Saint Iaint is that calling Christ a Jew is anachronistic. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I don't think that's a necessarily racist opinion to hold.

Unless the person saying it is a racist.
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« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2010, 05:17:46 AM »

HOW can Jesus be a so-called 'Jew'? Jesus is God!

I am anti-Talmudic (as should you be). I am pro-truth (as should you be).
Very good!
God has no nationality. Jesus is God. Therefore Jesus has no nationality.
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« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2010, 05:35:18 AM »

Jews determine the nationality of the child by the mother. Other people to determine the nationality of the child by his father.
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« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2010, 07:09:56 AM »

Jews determine the nationality of the child by the mother. Other people to determine the nationality of the child by his father.

You are incorrect. Different cultures determine ethnicity in different ways. In a patriarchal society the lineage comes from the father. In a matriarchal society the lineage come from the mother. Amongst American Indians as a whole this is particularly confusing. One person could be 50% native American, but in certain tribes they are not recognized as such because the bloodline is thru the wrong parent. Whereas another person could be 1/16th native American and is considered "more Indian" because they just have to prove they have an ancestor from the tribe. So the 1/2 amerindian person is "not indian" and the 1/16th amerindian person is "indian."
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 07:12:54 AM by Quinault » Logged
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« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2010, 07:21:29 AM »

Quote from: Saint Iaint
The vast majority of so-called 'Jews' are TALMUDIC (Pharisaic actually), ANTI-CHRIST and extremely xenophobic.

Wow.  Shocked  You know all of them? You met every one, and talked to each one personally, and saw into their hearts, and can judge as God can judge? How was this not on the news yesterday?  Huh

Quote from: Saint Iaint
In the flesh, here on Earth... Jesus was a Hebrew. Jesus was an Israelite of the tribe of Judah. Jesus was not a Judean. Jesus was not a 'Jew'.

Then all that getting circumcised and celebrating the Feast of the Tabernacles and being called Rabboni would have been pretty darned surprising!  Shocked I didn't know people in first-Century Roman Palestine did stuff like that for no reason.

And what does this say about the ethnic and cultural heritage of the Theotokos, St. Joseph the Betrothed, and the Apostles? About St. Simeon? You know the Old Testament prophets are also saints, right?  Huh

Quote from: Saint Iaint
Abraham existed before Israel. Israel existed before Judah. Judah therefore was necessarily the first 'Jew'. Meaning Jacob/Israel was not a 'Jew' nor was Abraham a 'Jew'.

You should bring this up in Brooklyn sometime.  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2010, 11:25:00 AM »

HOW can Jesus be a so-called 'Jew'? Jesus is God!

I am anti-Talmudic (as should you be). I am pro-truth (as should you be).
Very good!
God has no nationality. Jesus is God. Therefore Jesus has no nationality.

In Orthodox Christianity we consider Jesus both fully God and fully Man.. The Man was Jewish. He was circumcised.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 11:25:21 AM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2010, 11:27:17 AM »

To deny that Jesus was a Jew is to deny his incarnation in this world.
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« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2010, 11:47:02 AM »

In Orthodox Christianity we consider Jesus both fully God and fully Man.. The Man was Jewish. He was circumcised.

Jesus is from the lineage of David, because it gave birth to Mary.
Father of Jesus is God. That means Jesus has the same nationality as God.
God has no nationality.

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« Reply #53 on: December 01, 2010, 11:54:37 AM »

In Orthodox Christianity we consider Jesus both fully God and fully Man.. The Man was Jewish. He was circumcised.

Jesus is from the lineage of David, because it gave birth to Mary.
Father of Jesus is God. That means Jesus has the same nationality as God.
God has no nationality.



Actually in Judaism, nationality is determined by the Maternal Line. if your Mom is Jewish, so are you... I am sure God knew this Smiley

He also practiced Judaism. He  was ritually circumcised ( which is definitive in terms of his Jewishness). He preached in the Synagogue. Do you think a Non-Jew would be allowed to do that in the 1st Century? He and his family observed the Holy Days of Judaism. He refers to the Jewish People as His People. He is referred to by his followers a Rabbi. He promulgates the views of a particular faction within Judaism ( Hillel School)  etc etc etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Come on.
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« Reply #54 on: December 01, 2010, 12:14:14 PM »

Jews determine the nationality of the child by the mother. Other people to determine the nationality of the child by his father.
You are incorrect. Different cultures determine ethnicity in different ways. In a patriarchal society the lineage comes from the father. In a matriarchal society the lineage come from the mother.
Therefore, Jesus is God for a patriarchal society, but Jesus is a jew for a matriarchal society.


« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 12:30:53 PM by Loguic.and.life » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2010, 12:22:33 PM »

In Orthodox Christianity we consider Jesus both fully God and fully Man.. The Man was Jewish. He was circumcised.
Jesus is from the lineage of David, because it gave birth to Mary.
Father of Jesus is God. That means Jesus has the same nationality as God.
God has no nationality.
Actually in Judaism, nationality is determined by the Maternal Line. if your Mom is Jewish, so are you... I am sure God knew this Smiley
He also practiced Judaism. He  was ritually circumcised ( which is definitive in terms of his Jewishness). He preached in the Synagogue. Do you think a Non-Jew would be allowed to do that in the 1st Century? He and his family observed the Holy Days of Judaism. He refers to the Jewish People as His People. He is referred to by his followers a Rabbi. He promulgates the views of a particular faction within Judaism ( Hillel School)  etc etc etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Come on.

That's it. Jesus is a jew for judaists. Jesus is God for orthodox christians.

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Marc1152
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« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2010, 12:43:03 PM »

In Orthodox Christianity we consider Jesus both fully God and fully Man.. The Man was Jewish. He was circumcised.
Jesus is from the lineage of David, because it gave birth to Mary.
Father of Jesus is God. That means Jesus has the same nationality as God.
God has no nationality.
Actually in Judaism, nationality is determined by the Maternal Line. if your Mom is Jewish, so are you... I am sure God knew this Smiley
He also practiced Judaism. He  was ritually circumcised ( which is definitive in terms of his Jewishness). He preached in the Synagogue. Do you think a Non-Jew would be allowed to do that in the 1st Century? He and his family observed the Holy Days of Judaism. He refers to the Jewish People as His People. He is referred to by his followers a Rabbi. He promulgates the views of a particular faction within Judaism ( Hillel School)  etc etc etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Come on.

That's it. Jesus is a jew for judaists. Jesus is God for orthodox christians.



Oh okay, if you say so.....However,  I think if you check around you will find the in the Holy Tradition of Orthodox Christianity, Jesus is understood to have been a Jew.

r
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« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2010, 03:27:18 PM »

In Orthodox Christianity we consider Jesus both fully God and fully Man.. The Man was Jewish. He was circumcised.
Jesus is from the lineage of David, because it gave birth to Mary.
Father of Jesus is God. That means Jesus has the same nationality as God.
God has no nationality.
Actually in Judaism, nationality is determined by the Maternal Line. if your Mom is Jewish, so are you... I am sure God knew this Smiley
He also practiced Judaism. He  was ritually circumcised ( which is definitive in terms of his Jewishness). He preached in the Synagogue. Do you think a Non-Jew would be allowed to do that in the 1st Century? He and his family observed the Holy Days of Judaism. He refers to the Jewish People as His People. He is referred to by his followers a Rabbi. He promulgates the views of a particular faction within Judaism ( Hillel School)  etc etc etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Come on.

That's it. Jesus is a jew for judaists. Jesus is God for orthodox christians.



Oh okay, if you say so.....However,  I think if you check around you will find the in the Holy Tradition of Orthodox Christianity, Jesus is understood to have been a Jew.

r

And, interestingly, according to our liturgical texts and teachings, the Lord was circumcised and presented in the Temple for the salvation of all mankind, not just the Jews, just as He was spit upon, betrayed, and crucified for the salvation of all, even those who did it to Him.
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Marc1152
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« Reply #58 on: December 01, 2010, 05:04:06 PM »

In Orthodox Christianity we consider Jesus both fully God and fully Man.. The Man was Jewish. He was circumcised.
Jesus is from the lineage of David, because it gave birth to Mary.
Father of Jesus is God. That means Jesus has the same nationality as God.
God has no nationality.
Actually in Judaism, nationality is determined by the Maternal Line. if your Mom is Jewish, so are you... I am sure God knew this Smiley
He also practiced Judaism. He  was ritually circumcised ( which is definitive in terms of his Jewishness). He preached in the Synagogue. Do you think a Non-Jew would be allowed to do that in the 1st Century? He and his family observed the Holy Days of Judaism. He refers to the Jewish People as His People. He is referred to by his followers a Rabbi. He promulgates the views of a particular faction within Judaism ( Hillel School)  etc etc etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Come on.

That's it. Jesus is a jew for judaists. Jesus is God for orthodox christians.



Oh okay, if you say so.....However,  I think if you check around you will find the in the Holy Tradition of Orthodox Christianity, Jesus is understood to have been a Jew.

r

And, interestingly, according to our liturgical texts and teachings, the Lord was circumcised and presented in the Temple for the salvation of all mankind, not just the Jews, just as He was spit upon, betrayed, and crucified for the salvation of all, even those who did it to Him.

You're mixed up. The Lord's salvation is open to all, no question. It is also true that Jesus Christ was a Jew.

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« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2010, 05:07:53 PM »

In Orthodox Christianity we consider Jesus both fully God and fully Man.. The Man was Jewish. He was circumcised.
Jesus is from the lineage of David, because it gave birth to Mary.
Father of Jesus is God. That means Jesus has the same nationality as God.
God has no nationality.
Actually in Judaism, nationality is determined by the Maternal Line. if your Mom is Jewish, so are you... I am sure God knew this Smiley
He also practiced Judaism. He  was ritually circumcised ( which is definitive in terms of his Jewishness). He preached in the Synagogue. Do you think a Non-Jew would be allowed to do that in the 1st Century? He and his family observed the Holy Days of Judaism. He refers to the Jewish People as His People. He is referred to by his followers a Rabbi. He promulgates the views of a particular faction within Judaism ( Hillel School)  etc etc etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Come on.

That's it. Jesus is a jew for judaists. Jesus is God for orthodox christians.



Oh okay, if you say so.....However,  I think if you check around you will find the in the Holy Tradition of Orthodox Christianity, Jesus is understood to have been a Jew.

r

And, interestingly, according to our liturgical texts and teachings, the Lord was circumcised and presented in the Temple for the salvation of all mankind, not just the Jews, just as He was spit upon, betrayed, and crucified for the salvation of all, even those who did it to Him.

You're mixed up.


I think you misread me, especially since I had, up to this point, agreed with you.
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« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2010, 05:22:47 PM »

Even if the term "Jew" doesn't exactly fit a Galilean, I would think at least He would be some other form of Semite.  Undecided
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Marc1152
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« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2010, 05:57:31 PM »

In Orthodox Christianity we consider Jesus both fully God and fully Man.. The Man was Jewish. He was circumcised.
Jesus is from the lineage of David, because it gave birth to Mary.
Father of Jesus is God. That means Jesus has the same nationality as God.
God has no nationality.
Actually in Judaism, nationality is determined by the Maternal Line. if your Mom is Jewish, so are you... I am sure God knew this Smiley
He also practiced Judaism. He  was ritually circumcised ( which is definitive in terms of his Jewishness). He preached in the Synagogue. Do you think a Non-Jew would be allowed to do that in the 1st Century? He and his family observed the Holy Days of Judaism. He refers to the Jewish People as His People. He is referred to by his followers a Rabbi. He promulgates the views of a particular faction within Judaism ( Hillel School)  etc etc etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Come on.

That's it. Jesus is a jew for judaists. Jesus is God for orthodox christians.



Oh okay, if you say so.....However,  I think if you check around you will find the in the Holy Tradition of Orthodox Christianity, Jesus is understood to have been a Jew.

r

And, interestingly, according to our liturgical texts and teachings, the Lord was circumcised and presented in the Temple for the salvation of all mankind, not just the Jews, just as He was spit upon, betrayed, and crucified for the salvation of all, even those who did it to Him.

You're mixed up.


I think you misread me, especially since I had, up to this point, agreed with you.

Okay.. Sorry... then I'm mixed up... I didnt quite understand the last sentence you wrote...
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« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2010, 06:24:37 PM »

Jews determine the nationality of the child by the mother. Other people to determine the nationality of the child by his father.

You are incorrect. Different cultures determine ethnicity in different ways. In a patriarchal society the lineage comes from the father. In a matriarchal society the lineage come from the mother. Amongst American Indians as a whole this is particularly confusing. One person could be 50% native American, but in certain tribes they are not recognized as such because the bloodline is thru the wrong parent. Whereas another person could be 1/16th native American and is considered "more Indian" because they just have to prove they have an ancestor from the tribe. So the 1/2 amerindian person is "not indian" and the 1/16th amerindian person is "indian."

I agree with the intent of what you're saying but, as someone with a BA in anthropology, you have your terms a bit mixed up.  A patrilineal society determines lineage (eg "who is of the tribe") from the father; a patriarchal society is one where power and decision making is generally held by the male members.  Similarly, matrilineal societies trace ancestry through the mother but matriarchal societies consolidate power through the female members of society.  It is, I think, still believed that there were no true 100% matriarchal societies amongst the post-Contact tribes but there were certainly ones that shared power far more than Europeans did at the time.

So, in this case, the Jews were matrilineal but patriarchal.  Smiley
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« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2010, 04:20:40 AM »

Thanks, I got my terms mixed up. NW tribes were pretty matriarchal. Especially when you take into account the tribal religions. Even here in the NW we had a great deal of diversity, Oregon alone had 14 language families. Much of the native heritage of the NW is lost though, so we won't really ever have a complete picture of societies here.

I don't have anything beyond a GED and a 9th grade education, I am hardly an expert. I am mostly going on my connections within Amerindian culture. I believe it is Sia that has the BA in anthropology.
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« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2010, 05:02:12 PM »

Even if the term "Jew" doesn't exactly fit a Galilean, I would think at least He would be some other form of Semite.  Undecided
One of Jesus' ancestors was Rahab, a Canaanite, and Canaan was a son of Ham. So Jesus would also be at least partially Hamite.
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« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2010, 07:03:39 PM »

Even if the term "Jew" doesn't exactly fit a Galilean, I would think at least He would be some other form of Semite.  Undecided
One of Jesus' ancestors was Rahab, a Canaanite, and Canaan was a son of Ham. So Jesus would also be at least partially Hamite.

Isn't this assuming that the bloodline was matrilineal though?
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« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2010, 07:29:04 PM »

Even if the term "Jew" doesn't exactly fit a Galilean, I would think at least He would be some other form of Semite.  Undecided
One of Jesus' ancestors was Rahab, a Canaanite, and Canaan was a son of Ham. So Jesus would also be at least partially Hamite.

Isn't this assuming that the bloodline was matrilineal though?
Matrilineality is a cultural construction. I'm talking genetically (insofar as speaking about "Hamites" and "Semites" makes sense genetically, which it may in fact not).
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