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Author Topic: Bishop who Split Anglican Church resigning 3 years earlier than expected :  (Read 1710 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: November 20, 2010, 01:03:36 AM »

Gene Robinson, the US bishop whose election in 2003 led to actual and threatened splits in the Anglican Church worldwide, has announced that he is to retire four years early, in 2013.

Bishop Robinson, who is in his fifth year of sobriety after treatment for alcoholism, said the death threats he had received and other stresses of the past seven years had “taken their toll” on him, his family and his Diocese of New Hampshire.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/07/gay-bishop-gene-robinson-retires
http://www.seek4media.com/life-style/9611-gay_bishop_gene_robinson_who_split_anglican_church_resigns_early.html


Good riddance, and don't let the door hit you on the way out !  Grin

Edited for the news policy - Michał Kalina.
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2010, 09:52:05 AM »


Good riddance, and don't let the door hit you on the way out !  Grin

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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2010, 11:46:41 AM »

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Good riddance, and don't let the door hit you on the way out !

Don't you think if the guy was receiving death threats, there might not be a slightly more sympathetic approach one might be able to take?  Especially if it's not even your church anyway?
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2010, 12:01:03 PM »

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Good riddance, and don't let the door hit you on the way out !

Don't you think if the guy was receiving death threats, there might not be a slightly more sympathetic approach one might be able to take?  Especially if it's not even your church anyway?

"Mercy is for the weak. We do not train to be merciful here. A man face you, he is enemy. Enemy deserve no mercy."
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2010, 12:02:07 PM »

Quote
Good riddance, and don't let the door hit you on the way out !

Don't you think if the guy was receiving death threats, there might not be a slightly more sympathetic approach one might be able to take?  Especially if it's not even your church anyway?

It was my church. Good riddance.
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2010, 12:18:33 PM »

Well, now that Vicky Gene is leaving, that leaves Mary Glasspool as the LGBT Poster Child out in Los Angeles.

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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2010, 12:25:57 PM »

Quote
Good riddance, and don't let the door hit you on the way out !

Don't you think if the guy was receiving death threats, there might not be a slightly more sympathetic approach one might be able to take?  Especially if it's not even your church anyway?
Judge not, that ye be not judged.  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

The cleric in question, when seizing the diocese immediately commenced a witch hunt of the conservatives who did not drop dead as they were supposed to do. So he consigned them to canonical death, purging, dismissals, firings, seizure of properties, etc.

His work is done, now he will receive his reward.

Quote
He pledged to remain active over the next two years. “I will continue my work of evangelising the unchurched and the de-churched. I get to talk to probably more unchurched people than any other bishop in the Episcopal Church. On college campuses, speaking to various public forums, and also in my work with gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people, I get the opportunity to make the case for God and for God’s Church — either to those who have never known God’s unimaginable love, or to those who have been ill-treated, in the name of a judgmental God, and who have left the Church.

“Recent news brings us the tragic stories of teenagers who have taken their own lives because religion tells them they are an abomination before God and who believe that their lives are doomed to despair and unhappiness. I get to tell them a different story.”
So he gets to use his episcopal  office to confirm people in their sin. Not exactly what St. Ignatius had in mind.

Who many of those "unchurched" get "churched" by being told what they want to here?
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2010, 12:51:35 PM »

It was my church. Good riddance.

I'm only saying if you yourself left, you don't have to worry about it anymore.  For the people that were never a member, I'm really not sure why they even care.

No matter how good or bad a person he was, nobody deserves death threats.  That's just a matter of basic civility.  Even then, to focus anger on him is pointless, he wasn't the problem in Anglicanism.  He is simply the product of the system.
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 12:57:23 PM »

It was my church. Good riddance.

I'm only saying if you yourself left, you don't have to worry about it anymore.  For the people that were never a member, I'm really not sure why they even care.

No matter how good or bad a person he was, nobody deserves death threats.  That's just a matter of basic civility.  Even then, to focus anger on him is pointless, he wasn't the problem in Anglicanism.  He is simply the product of the system.

I'm not defending death threats, but I don't have any sympathy for someone whom helped destroy a Chrisitian church in the name of God. His desire for his own sins, over the message of God, has helped succeed in "legitimizing" modernism and sinful lifestyles.   
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2010, 01:20:23 PM »

I'm not defending death threats, but I don't have any sympathy for someone whom helped destroy a Chrisitian church in the name of God. His desire for his own sins, over the message of God, has helped succeed in "legitimizing" modernism and sinful lifestyles.   

I know, I wasn't attempting to link what you said with justification of threatening to kill somebody.

I will say that I don't think Gene Robinson was the issue in the TEC.  There were gay bishops and priests long before him, just not publicly acknowledged.  The issue was and should be - was he a validly ordained priest, a validly consecrated bishop, in a church with valid sacraments.  That is really the fundamental question.

I often wonder how many would have converted if the TEC today was like it was before 1976.
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2010, 01:31:34 PM »

I'm not defending death threats, but I don't have any sympathy for someone whom helped destroy a Chrisitian church in the name of God. His desire for his own sins, over the message of God, has helped succeed in "legitimizing" modernism and sinful lifestyles.   

I know, I wasn't attempting to link what you said with justification of threatening to kill somebody.

I will say that I don't think Gene Robinson was the issue in the TEC.  There were gay bishops and priests long before him, just not publicly acknowledged.  The issue was and should be - was he a validly ordained priest, a validly consecrated bishop, in a church with valid sacraments.  That is really the fundamental question.

I often wonder how many would have converted if the TEC today was like it was before 1976.

He wasn't the only one, no. I feel the same for the others, as well.

The TEC prior to 1976 was much larger, an I think would fair better than it does today.
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2010, 02:21:09 PM »

Again, nothing actually changed with the ordination of women or with Bishop Robinson, other than people's perceptions.  The fundamental question was and always should be what are the status of Anglican orders.

If you ask me, people should have been really upset about the agreement signed with the ELCA that allowed for non episcopal ordinations in some circumstances, because that actually really cuts to the heart of the catholicity of the church.  I doubt many even noticed however.  So I think the "ick" factor with Bishop Robinson had more to do with jolting people out of their current status than did the idea of apostolic succession or the historical status of Anglican orders.  Added to that, the death threats, vitriol and so on tell me a lot of people hate the sin and the sinner.  At least on this issue.
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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2010, 03:22:57 PM »

Again, nothing actually changed with the ordination of women or with Bishop Robinson, other than people's perceptions.  The fundamental question was and always should be what are the status of Anglican orders.

Sure things changed. He was the first openly gay bishop. His ordination was an acceptance of that lifestyle. Thats's a rejection of God's word and morality..

The ordination of women is a rejection of church Tradition.

In addition, there was the growing problem of heretical priests (e.g. Arians).

All of which the Episcopal church not only failed to condemn, but eventually embraced.

If you ask me, people should have been really upset about the agreement signed with the ELCA that allowed for non episcopal ordinations in some circumstances, because that actually really cuts to the heart of the catholicity of the church.  I doubt many even noticed however.  So I think the "ick" factor with Bishop Robinson had more to do with jolting people out of their current status than did the idea of apostolic succession or the historical status of Anglican orders.  Added to that, the death threats, vitriol and so on tell me a lot of people hate the sin and the sinner.  At least on this issue.

Nah.
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2010, 05:00:42 PM »

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The ordination of women is a rejection of church Tradition.

It's not a rejection of Anglican tradition vis-a-vis the Elizabethan settlement, that's what I'm trying to say. It's an inevitable consequence of the settlement.  If the TEC failed to condemn the things you mention, there's is a very simple reason. There is no authority to which it may appeal to enforce a condemnation, since the authority is majority opinion.  Gene Robinson and women's ordination then were just effects and not causes of the breakdown of tradition.  I have no idea what the rate of conversion is among Episcopalians before/after these things occurred, but I bet it picked up speed.  Not because people suddenly awoke to doubt the validity of sacraments they were receiving, but because they found the things happening to be offensive to their conception of the church.  I would wager, if GR and WO never happened, many would have remained comfortably where they were.  That is of course simply conjecture.
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2010, 05:10:12 PM »

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The ordination of women is a rejection of church Tradition.

It's not a rejection of Anglican tradition vis-a-vis the Elizabethan settlement, that's what I'm trying to say. It's an inevitable consequence of the settlement.  If the TEC failed to condemn the things you mention, there's is a very simple reason. There is no authority to which it may appeal to enforce a condemnation, since the authority is majority opinion.  Gene Robinson and women's ordination then were just effects and not causes of the breakdown of tradition.  I have no idea what the rate of conversion is among Episcopalians before/after these things occurred, but I bet it picked up speed.  Not because people suddenly awoke to doubt the validity of sacraments they were receiving, but because they found the things happening to be offensive to their conception of the church.  I would wager, if GR and WO never happened, many would have remained comfortably where they were.  That is of course simply conjecture.

The bold is correct. The bishops claimed to be unable to charge anyone of heresy do to a lack of written church doctrine. It's all horse$76:, but that's that they claimed.

The population of the TEC has been rapidly decreasing. Quite the opposite of your guess. Since the ordination of Gene Robinson, the TEC has decreased by about a third. They've become mostly RC or EO, though a few have become other Protestant denominations.
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2010, 05:19:34 PM »

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Since the ordination of Gene Robinson, the TEC has decreased by about a third

Just for clarity, that was my guess.  Meaning without GR, my guess is most would have stayed put.  It was the "ick" factor that pushed them over the top, not some instant realization that they might be in a church without valid apostolic succession or sacraments. 

Also, I'm not making a claim or statement one way or another whether the TEC has either of the above (sacraments or apostolic succession).
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2010, 06:01:40 PM »

Again, nothing actually changed with the ordination of women or with Bishop Robinson, other than people's perceptions.  The fundamental question was and always should be what are the status of Anglican orders.

If you ask me, people should have been really upset about the agreement signed with the ELCA that allowed for non episcopal ordinations in some circumstances, because that actually really cuts to the heart of the catholicity of the church.  I doubt many even noticed however.  So I think the "ick" factor with Bishop Robinson had more to do with jolting people out of their current status than did the idea of apostolic succession or the historical status of Anglican orders.  Added to that, the death threats, vitriol and so on tell me a lot of people hate the sin and the sinner.  At least on this issue.
Well, when the sinner uses his new found position to rub the faces of his opponents in his sin, making them swallow the ick factor as it were, it tends to raise a lot of hostility.
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2010, 06:09:24 PM »

Agree with Isa and Azurestone, a person who divided the Church has no love whatsoever within them. Out with mr.robby who robbed the Anglican church of it's sacraments.
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2010, 06:27:20 PM »

Agree with Isa and Azurestone, a person who divided the Church has no love whatsoever within them. Out with mr.robby who robbed the Anglican church of it's sacraments.

In all fairness, the robbing of the Anglican church of it's sacraments happened in 1979 when the Episcopal Church decided to start ordaining women to the priesthood.  The slide of the Anglican Community down the path of heresy has been a century long task, to which Mr Robinson was only the final nail in the coffin.  The likes of Pike and Spong here, and whoever was the inspiration for Mr CS Lewis' Episcopal Ghost in The Great Divorce over in England did far more damage than one election in 2003.
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2010, 07:37:27 PM »

Agree with Isa and Azurestone, a person who divided the Church has no love whatsoever within them. Out with mr.robby who robbed the Anglican church of it's sacraments.

In all fairness, the robbing of the Anglican church of it's sacraments happened in 1979 when the Episcopal Church decided to start ordaining women to the priesthood.  The slide of the Anglican Community down the path of heresy has been a century long task, to which Mr Robinson was only the final nail in the coffin.  The likes of Pike and Spong here, and whoever was the inspiration for Mr CS Lewis' Episcopal Ghost in The Great Divorce over in England did far more damage than one election in 2003.
yes, the spawn of Spong was the seed of destruction of their church.
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2010, 11:25:44 PM »

Again, nothing actually changed with the ordination of women or with Bishop Robinson, other than people's perceptions.  The fundamental question was and always should be what are the status of Anglican orders.

If you ask me, people should have been really upset about the agreement signed with the ELCA that allowed for non episcopal ordinations in some circumstances, because that actually really cuts to the heart of the catholicity of the church.  I doubt many even noticed however.  So I think the "ick" factor with Bishop Robinson had more to do with jolting people out of their current status than did the idea of apostolic succession or the historical status of Anglican orders.  Added to that, the death threats, vitriol and so on tell me a lot of people hate the sin and the sinner.  At least on this issue.

There they go again.  If any of you tracked a thread I was on a few days ago arguing against just seeing things in a juris manner, here is another example.  In all due respect, it is not just about "validity"; Orthodox really do not use this term very often.  Rather, the Tradition is all-encompassing; morality is just as important as is "apostolic succession".  Gender Neutrality is against nature; Our Creator did not make us that way.  All of us have differing gifts and abilities.  This false overseer no doubt used his power to persecute "orthodox minded" Anglicans.  Should our response be death threats?  No, but when one "lives by the sword, one often dies by the sword".  I think it is telling that he received such threat in othewise tolerant Yankee Doodle Dandiedom.  We pray for his repentance and salvation.
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« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2010, 01:30:16 AM »

Agree with Isa and Azurestone, a person who divided the Church has no love whatsoever within them. Out with mr.robby who robbed the Anglican church of it's sacraments.

In all fairness, the robbing of the Anglican church of it's sacraments happened in 1979 when the Episcopal Church decided to start ordaining women to the priesthood.  The slide of the Anglican Community down the path of heresy has been a century long task, to which Mr Robinson was only the final nail in the coffin.  The likes of Pike and Spong here, and whoever was the inspiration for Mr CS Lewis' Episcopal Ghost in The Great Divorce over in England did far more damage than one election in 2003.
yes, the spawn of Spong was the seed of destruction of their church.

Actually, the seed was sown when Henry VIII made a pact with Satan.  Admittedly somewhat respectable a long time ago, it's now a joke.
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« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2010, 01:49:55 AM »

Agree with Isa and Azurestone, a person who divided the Church has no love whatsoever within them. Out with mr.robby who robbed the Anglican church of it's sacraments.

In all fairness, the robbing of the Anglican church of it's sacraments happened in 1979 when the Episcopal Church decided to start ordaining women to the priesthood.  The slide of the Anglican Community down the path of heresy has been a century long task, to which Mr Robinson was only the final nail in the coffin.  The likes of Pike and Spong here, and whoever was the inspiration for Mr CS Lewis' Episcopal Ghost in The Great Divorce over in England did far more damage than one election in 2003.
yes, the spawn of Spong was the seed of destruction of their church.

Actually, the seed was sown when Henry VIII made a pact with Satan.  Admittedly somewhat respectable a long time ago, it's now a joke.


That was exactly what I was thinking about bro.


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« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2010, 03:22:18 PM »

Agree with Isa and Azurestone, a person who divided the Church has no love whatsoever within them. Out with mr.robby who robbed the Anglican church of it's sacraments.

In all fairness, the robbing of the Anglican church of it's sacraments happened in 1979 when the Episcopal Church decided to start ordaining women to the priesthood.  The slide of the Anglican Community down the path of heresy has been a century long task, to which Mr Robinson was only the final nail in the coffin.  The likes of Pike and Spong here, and whoever was the inspiration for Mr CS Lewis' Episcopal Ghost in The Great Divorce over in England did far more damage than one election in 2003.
yes, the spawn of Spong was the seed of destruction of their church.

Actually, the seed was sown when Henry VIII made a pact with Satan.  Admittedly somewhat respectable a long time ago, it's now a joke.

If we're going to go that deep into it, the true seed was the Norman Invasion of 1066, when Orthodox England fell to the schismatic Frankish papal policies.  Henry VIII had the right idea, but, like Luther, didn't go far enough East.
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« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2010, 03:40:19 PM »

Anglicanism has been a heretical sect long before this so-called bishop. His being a homosexual doesn't make one damned difference as to the status of the Anglican Protestant heresy in its relationship with the true faith.
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« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2010, 04:35:57 PM »

Agree with Isa and Azurestone, a person who divided the Church has no love whatsoever within them. Out with mr.robby who robbed the Anglican church of it's sacraments.

In all fairness, the robbing of the Anglican church of it's sacraments happened in 1979 when the Episcopal Church decided to start ordaining women to the priesthood.  The slide of the Anglican Community down the path of heresy has been a century long task, to which Mr Robinson was only the final nail in the coffin.  The likes of Pike and Spong here, and whoever was the inspiration for Mr CS Lewis' Episcopal Ghost in The Great Divorce over in England did far more damage than one election in 2003.
yes, the spawn of Spong was the seed of destruction of their church.

Actually, the seed was sown when Henry VIII made a pact with Satan.  Admittedly somewhat respectable a long time ago, it's now a joke.

If we're going to go that deep into it, the true seed was the Norman Invasion of 1066, when Orthodox England fell to the schismatic Frankish papal policies.  Henry VIII had the right idea, but, like Luther, didn't go far enough East.

Uh, they didn't go East at all. They had other motivations than trying to come closer to the "Greek schismatics."

And if you denied the filioque, Henry VIII would have clapped you up in the Tower.

And he would have justified this because of the long tradition of the English Church on the filioque:

http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2010/11/filioque.html
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« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2010, 05:11:01 PM »

Agree with Isa and Azurestone, a person who divided the Church has no love whatsoever within them. Out with mr.robby who robbed the Anglican church of it's sacraments.

In all fairness, the robbing of the Anglican church of it's sacraments happened in 1979 when the Episcopal Church decided to start ordaining women to the priesthood.  The slide of the Anglican Community down the path of heresy has been a century long task, to which Mr Robinson was only the final nail in the coffin.  The likes of Pike and Spong here, and whoever was the inspiration for Mr CS Lewis' Episcopal Ghost in The Great Divorce over in England did far more damage than one election in 2003.
yes, the spawn of Spong was the seed of destruction of their church.

Actually, the seed was sown when Henry VIII made a pact with Satan.  Admittedly somewhat respectable a long time ago, it's now a joke.

If we're going to go that deep into it, the true seed was the Norman Invasion of 1066, when Orthodox England fell to the schismatic Frankish papal policies.  Henry VIII had the right idea, but, like Luther, didn't go far enough East.

Uh, they didn't go East at all. They had other motivations than trying to come closer to the "Greek schismatics."

And if you denied the filioque, Henry VIII would have clapped you up in the Tower.

And he would have justified this because of the long tradition of the English Church on the filioque:

http://liturgicalnotes.blogspot.com/2010/11/filioque.html
He also justified his divorce, excuse, annullment, on the long tradition of the English church in getting the "shameless sentence[s ] sent from Rome," as his sister Margaret got (and whose descents succeeded when Henry's died out). Defensor fidei.
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« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2010, 05:15:33 PM »

Anglicanism has been a heretical sect long before this so-called bishop. His being a homosexual doesn't make one damned difference as to the status of the Anglican Protestant heresy in its relationship with the true faith.

Of course.  It would have made about as much sense as saying "good riddance" when Jimmy Swaggert was kicked out of his church.  This is more about hating sin and the sinners.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2010, 05:44:47 PM »

Anglicanism has been a heretical sect long before this so-called bishop. His being a homosexual doesn't make one damned difference as to the status of the Anglican Protestant heresy in its relationship with the true faith.

Of course.  It would have made about as much sense as saying "good riddance" when Jimmy Swaggert was kicked out of his church.  This is more about hating sin and the sinners.
Jimmy Swaggert got booted out so his church could preserve its integrity. In the case of NH, the ecclesiastical organization decided to ditch integrity and embrace the sin.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2010, 03:49:03 AM »

Anglicanism has been a heretical sect long before this so-called bishop. His being a homosexual doesn't make one damned difference as to the status of the Anglican Protestant heresy in its relationship with the true faith.

Of course.  It would have made about as much sense as saying "good riddance" when Jimmy Swaggert was kicked out of his church.  This is more about hating sin and the sinners.
Jimmy Swaggert got booted out so his church could preserve its integrity. In the case of NH, the ecclesiastical organization decided to ditch integrity and embrace the sin.

Very well said, friend.  Smiley
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