OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 21, 2014, 08:36:21 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I met a Baptist.....what exactly is a "Baptist"?  (Read 4841 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ruthenian Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Pheonix
Posts: 2,362



« on: November 10, 2010, 08:55:54 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,655



« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 09:02:14 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

LOL. Good question.

You might want to take a look at this thread
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,28972.msg481480.html#msg481480
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
FormerReformer
Convertodox of the convertodox
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: I'll take (e) for "all of the above"
Posts: 2,435



WWW
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 09:33:22 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

Well, just a few quick points:

Baptists get their name from their belief in "believers' baptism".  They reject infant Baptism, and will rebaptize converts.  Some American Baptist denominations will even rebaptize Baptists.

Baptists reject sacraments, preferring the term "ordinances" of which they believe in two: Baptism and Communion.  Baptism doesn't really do anything at all, and Communion is a "remembrance" only.

Many Baptists of the American variety reject any sort of creed or confession, and leave beliefs up to each individual.  This can have the effect of making the above statements moot, as per each individual Baptist.

Baptists generally follow a "sola scriptura" view, though some are quick to uphold their quirkier views as being tradition.

And, as you've found out, Baptists can be very big on the whole "Are you saved?" view of salvation.
Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2010, 09:35:48 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".
Logged
FormerReformer
Convertodox of the convertodox
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: I'll take (e) for "all of the above"
Posts: 2,435



WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2010, 09:49:42 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue
Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2010, 09:49:56 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

One of these days I'm gonna do a youtube video about the history of various christian groups......the baptists being one of them. But I've been saying that for a year or two now. Still haven't done it yet.


Historically they are congregational puritan English Separatists with some influence of Mennonite Anabaptist theology. They reject infant Baptism and eventually they embraced....mostly under the later Calvinistic ones....but they would eventually embrace full immersion Baptism as well.

What kind of Baptist is he?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 09:51:24 PM by jnorm888 » Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 10:19:48 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue

Yup, that seems to be the loophole. Were you really saved to begin with? Enter "no true scotsman" fallacy.
Logged
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 10:27:42 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I was raised a Baptist, was the son of a Baptist pastor and a good sunday school teaching mother, and have been around Baptists my whole life..

But as it was said before, what do they believe? There is quite a bit of diversity, but this is the inherent in the nature of protestant traditions which are individualistic, anti-authority based interpretations of faith.  Let me pray for accuracy but this is the testimony of my upbringing.

1) Baptists believe in the absolute, literal infallibility of the Holy Bible, preferably the good King James version, and often other translations are even demonized! Reading the Bible is central to all Baptist faith, and there is no Baptist without the Bible. This does not automatically mean that all Baptists constantly read and absorb the scriptures, no many of them are quite like many other kinds of people, and do not actually read the Bible often enough, but nonetheless its stories, symbols, imagery, music and themes are a constant feature of Baptist life.  All doctrine, all sermons, and beliefs MUST be rooted and demonstrated to be so in the Bible.  Biblical accuracy is highly favored.

2) Baptists reject any kinds of clerical authorities, no Bishops or Priests or any such hierarchies, rather only a Preacher/Pastor/Reverend is the head of a local church, and he is often elected by a council.  He takes care of any legal obligations for the church, but does not directly have any kind of authority, and most Baptists resent such pretensions as authority.

3) Baptists are the most staunchly anti-Catholic anti-Holy Tradition of the Protestants.  They reject all things remotely Popish as being quite literally from the devil.  This includes veneration of the Virgin, or the Saints, or even the Apostles. Also included are prayer books and Mass services. They often misinterpret these kinds of things to be against Scripture, but I do not honestly see how they can justify this in plain evidence of several passages.

4) Communion is a symbolic commemoration, the Real Presence is fundamentally rejected by all Baptists, and in fact is considered highly superstitious.

5)  Old Testament Old Testament Old Testament

6) fire and brimstone fire and brimstone fire and brimstone.  Everything is about going to Hell, Baptists are often more consumed with thoughts of Eternal Damnation and Hellfire then the Devil himself!

7) Good food and good music is the heart of worship in the Baptist community and the center of fellowship.

Cool For God and Country, most Baptists are vitriolically Patriotic and nationalistic, and many are fervent Zionists to boot!

This is all I can think of this limited time, I much like the way many folks refer to their Catholic upbringing, am a recovering Baptist (we both got a lot of baggage) Wink
This is not to say Baptists are bad people, no I say a lot of the above with a hint of innocent jest, and there is  a lot of piety, faith and wisdom in Baptists.  They love the Bible, and many pastors learn to study it in several languages such as Greek and Hebrew, and they have a thorough understanding of it.  Further, living in an unstructured religious environment, the people cling to faith with such tenacity that it is truly admirable.  Orthodox provide a structure, a lifestyle, a calendar, a rule book, a Holy Tradition, all of which the Baptists reject openly.  If anything, I'd say the definition of Baptists it to live in the realms of spiritual inspiration, this is why they are often called Charismatic Christians.  
stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,859



« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 10:38:28 PM »

See, I thought some baptists did believe in certain other categories of the clergy, because for whatever reason I though Bishop T.D. Jakes was a baptist, but when I went to check I saw that he isn't. Um... so you can ignore my ramblings, just wanted to post to say thanks for starting the thread.
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,888



« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2010, 11:30:22 PM »

what exactly do Baptists believe?

As others have said, ask him what type of Baptist he is. From there we can perhaps look for something confessional from his sect.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 11:30:52 PM by Alveus Lacuna » Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,655



« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 11:48:51 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."
btw, the Orthodox answer is "I am being saved."
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ruthenian Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Pheonix
Posts: 2,362



« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2010, 12:42:52 AM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."
btw, the Orthodox answer is "I am being saved."
ah, yes!  I was thinking of that beautiful hymn that says "work out your salvation with fear and trembling".
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
arnI
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 159



« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2010, 09:38:52 AM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

So many different baptist denominations that one can not define what their beliefs are, but Wikipedia does has a useful generalization:

   •   Bible is final authority
   •   Autonomy of the local church
   •   Priesthood of all believers
   •   Two ordinances (believer's baptism and the Lord's Supper)
   •   Individual soul liberty
   •   Separation of Church and State
   •   Two offices of the church (pastor-elder and deacon)

When I was a Baptist, I could not reconcile the stated beliefs and reality. For example, the autonomous local church stated Baptism is not a Sacrament but it is required and must be in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But they stated Baptism is only symbolic. This Baptist church stated Communion is not a sacrament, but one is to be baptized and pray a prayer of repentance before communing. However, children that were not allowed to be baptized because of their age could commune. The communion was known as the Lord's Supper and was comprised of crackers and grape juice. However, the Communion service was mostly compromised of a Scripture reading where the minister quotes "This is my Body" and "This is my Blood". They stated communion is only symbolic. Infants were not Baptized, but instead were presented to the church in a dedication ceremony with prayers for the child and parents. Sorry, but I could not resist posting a few of my past experiences to this thread. Smiley
Logged

Grant me to see my own errors and not to judge my brother
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,506



« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2010, 02:48:13 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I was raised a Baptist, was the son of a Baptist pastor and a good sunday school teaching mother, and have been around Baptists my whole life..

But as it was said before, what do they believe? There is quite a bit of diversity, but this is the inherent in the nature of protestant traditions which are individualistic, anti-authority based interpretations of faith.  Let me pray for accuracy but this is the testimony of my upbringing.

1) Baptists believe in the absolute, literal infallibility of the Holy Bible, preferably the good King James version, and often other translations are even demonized! Reading the Bible is central to all Baptist faith, and there is no Baptist without the Bible. This does not automatically mean that all Baptists constantly read and absorb the scriptures, no many of them are quite like many other kinds of people, and do not actually read the Bible often enough, but nonetheless its stories, symbols, imagery, music and themes are a constant feature of Baptist life.  All doctrine, all sermons, and beliefs MUST be rooted and demonstrated to be so in the Bible.  Biblical accuracy is highly favored.

2) Baptists reject any kinds of clerical authorities, no Bishops or Priests or any such hierarchies, rather only a Preacher/Pastor/Reverend is the head of a local church, and he is often elected by a council.  He takes care of any legal obligations for the church, but does not directly have any kind of authority, and most Baptists resent such pretensions as authority.

3) Baptists are the most staunchly anti-Catholic anti-Holy Tradition of the Protestants.  They reject all things remotely Popish as being quite literally from the devil.  This includes veneration of the Virgin, or the Saints, or even the Apostles. Also included are prayer books and Mass services. They often misinterpret these kinds of things to be against Scripture, but I do not honestly see how they can justify this in plain evidence of several passages.

4) Communion is a symbolic commemoration, the Real Presence is fundamentally rejected by all Baptists, and in fact is considered highly superstitious.

5)  Old Testament Old Testament Old Testament

6) fire and brimstone fire and brimstone fire and brimstone.  Everything is about going to Hell, Baptists are often more consumed with thoughts of Eternal Damnation and Hellfire then the Devil himself!

7) Good food and good music is the heart of worship in the Baptist community and the center of fellowship.

Cool For God and Country, most Baptists are vitriolically Patriotic and nationalistic, and many are fervent Zionists to boot!

This is all I can think of this limited time, I much like the way many folks refer to their Catholic upbringing, am a recovering Baptist (we both got a lot of baggage) Wink
This is not to say Baptists are bad people, no I say a lot of the above with a hint of innocent jest, and there is  a lot of piety, faith and wisdom in Baptists.  They love the Bible, and many pastors learn to study it in several languages such as Greek and Hebrew, and they have a thorough understanding of it.  Further, living in an unstructured religious environment, the people cling to faith with such tenacity that it is truly admirable.  Orthodox provide a structure, a lifestyle, a calendar, a rule book, a Holy Tradition, all of which the Baptists reject openly.  If anything, I'd say the definition of Baptists it to live in the realms of spiritual inspiration, this is why they are often called Charismatic Christians.  
stay blessed,
habte selassie

Another great post.

Trevor if you are in the States, this is the best summation I've read here having grown up "Baptist". But there are some varieties. "Southern Baptists" are a bit different than the staunchly independent Baptists.

Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,291


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2010, 03:47:30 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I was raised a Baptist, was the son of a Baptist pastor and a good sunday school teaching mother, and have been around Baptists my whole life..

But as it was said before, what do they believe? There is quite a bit of diversity, but this is the inherent in the nature of protestant traditions which are individualistic, anti-authority based interpretations of faith.  Let me pray for accuracy but this is the testimony of my upbringing.

1) Baptists believe in the absolute, literal infallibility of the Holy Bible, preferably the good King James version, and often other translations are even demonized! Reading the Bible is central to all Baptist faith, and there is no Baptist without the Bible. This does not automatically mean that all Baptists constantly read and absorb the scriptures, no many of them are quite like many other kinds of people, and do not actually read the Bible often enough, but nonetheless its stories, symbols, imagery, music and themes are a constant feature of Baptist life.  All doctrine, all sermons, and beliefs MUST be rooted and demonstrated to be so in the Bible.  Biblical accuracy is highly favored.

2) Baptists reject any kinds of clerical authorities, no Bishops or Priests or any such hierarchies, rather only a Preacher/Pastor/Reverend is the head of a local church, and he is often elected by a council.  He takes care of any legal obligations for the church, but does not directly have any kind of authority, and most Baptists resent such pretensions as authority.

3) Baptists are the most staunchly anti-Catholic anti-Holy Tradition of the Protestants.  They reject all things remotely Popish as being quite literally from the devil.  This includes veneration of the Virgin, or the Saints, or even the Apostles. Also included are prayer books and Mass services. They often misinterpret these kinds of things to be against Scripture, but I do not honestly see how they can justify this in plain evidence of several passages.

4) Communion is a symbolic commemoration, the Real Presence is fundamentally rejected by all Baptists, and in fact is considered highly superstitious.

5)  Old Testament Old Testament Old Testament

6) fire and brimstone fire and brimstone fire and brimstone.  Everything is about going to Hell, Baptists are often more consumed with thoughts of Eternal Damnation and Hellfire then the Devil himself!

7) Good food and good music is the heart of worship in the Baptist community and the center of fellowship.

Cool For God and Country, most Baptists are vitriolically Patriotic and nationalistic, and many are fervent Zionists to boot!

This is all I can think of this limited time, I much like the way many folks refer to their Catholic upbringing, am a recovering Baptist (we both got a lot of baggage) Wink
This is not to say Baptists are bad people, no I say a lot of the above with a hint of innocent jest, and there is  a lot of piety, faith and wisdom in Baptists.  They love the Bible, and many pastors learn to study it in several languages such as Greek and Hebrew, and they have a thorough understanding of it.  Further, living in an unstructured religious environment, the people cling to faith with such tenacity that it is truly admirable.  Orthodox provide a structure, a lifestyle, a calendar, a rule book, a Holy Tradition, all of which the Baptists reject openly.  If anything, I'd say the definition of Baptists it to live in the realms of spiritual inspiration, this is why they are often called Charismatic Christians.  
stay blessed,
habte selassie


I agree with this assessment. Very well stated. When I first became a Christian (when I was supposedly "saved"), I joined Charles Stanley's church in Atlanta, Ga, where I was a member for about 5 years. The only thing I would add is that Baptists are very anti-Charismatic; that is, they completely reject any idea of speaking in tongues, etc.

My brother-in-law is the pastor of a "Fundamentalist Baptist" church. That's the actual name of his denomination- Funadmantalist Baptist. They make Southern Baptists seem like flaming liberals in comparison. So you can imagine the theological impasse that he and I face.


Selam
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 03:48:10 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"If we are unwilling to accept any truth that we have not first discovered and declared ourselves, we demonstrate that we are interested not in the truth so much as in being right." ~ Thomas Merton ~
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,821


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2010, 03:55:54 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I was raised a Baptist, was the son of a Baptist pastor and a good sunday school teaching mother, and have been around Baptists my whole life..

But as it was said before, what do they believe? There is quite a bit of diversity, but this is the inherent in the nature of protestant traditions which are individualistic, anti-authority based interpretations of faith.  Let me pray for accuracy but this is the testimony of my upbringing.

1) Baptists believe in the absolute, literal infallibility of the Holy Bible, preferably the good King James version, and often other translations are even demonized! Reading the Bible is central to all Baptist faith, and there is no Baptist without the Bible. This does not automatically mean that all Baptists constantly read and absorb the scriptures, no many of them are quite like many other kinds of people, and do not actually read the Bible often enough, but nonetheless its stories, symbols, imagery, music and themes are a constant feature of Baptist life.  All doctrine, all sermons, and beliefs MUST be rooted and demonstrated to be so in the Bible.  Biblical accuracy is highly favored.

2) Baptists reject any kinds of clerical authorities, no Bishops or Priests or any such hierarchies, rather only a Preacher/Pastor/Reverend is the head of a local church, and he is often elected by a council.  He takes care of any legal obligations for the church, but does not directly have any kind of authority, and most Baptists resent such pretensions as authority.

3) Baptists are the most staunchly anti-Catholic anti-Holy Tradition of the Protestants.  They reject all things remotely Popish as being quite literally from the devil.  This includes veneration of the Virgin, or the Saints, or even the Apostles. Also included are prayer books and Mass services. They often misinterpret these kinds of things to be against Scripture, but I do not honestly see how they can justify this in plain evidence of several passages.

4) Communion is a symbolic commemoration, the Real Presence is fundamentally rejected by all Baptists, and in fact is considered highly superstitious.

5)  Old Testament Old Testament Old Testament

6) fire and brimstone fire and brimstone fire and brimstone.  Everything is about going to Hell, Baptists are often more consumed with thoughts of Eternal Damnation and Hellfire then the Devil himself!

7) Good food and good music is the heart of worship in the Baptist community and the center of fellowship.

Cool For God and Country, most Baptists are vitriolically Patriotic and nationalistic, and many are fervent Zionists to boot!

This is all I can think of this limited time, I much like the way many folks refer to their Catholic upbringing, am a recovering Baptist (we both got a lot of baggage) Wink
This is not to say Baptists are bad people, no I say a lot of the above with a hint of innocent jest, and there is  a lot of piety, faith and wisdom in Baptists.  They love the Bible, and many pastors learn to study it in several languages such as Greek and Hebrew, and they have a thorough understanding of it.  Further, living in an unstructured religious environment, the people cling to faith with such tenacity that it is truly admirable.  Orthodox provide a structure, a lifestyle, a calendar, a rule book, a Holy Tradition, all of which the Baptists reject openly.  If anything, I'd say the definition of Baptists it to live in the realms of spiritual inspiration, this is why they are often called Charismatic Christians.  
stay blessed,
habte selassie

How is this different from Ana-Baptist?
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2010, 04:32:07 PM »



Trevor if you are in the States, this is the best summation I've read here having grown up "Baptist". But there are some varieties. "Southern Baptists" are a bit different than the staunchly independent Baptists.



true, Southern Baptists have a heirarchical structure, and also are a bit less conservative socially than independents.  But they generally agree with the tenets and culture of American Baptists..



How is this different from Ana-Baptist?


Anabaptists were a particular branch of sectarian Protestants in Europe who went to colonial America and remained its own, organized denomination through the 19th century.  The independent and Southern Baptists who evolved out of the Southern and Apalachian regions of the US in the late 19th and early 20th century are staunchly independent from the Anabaptists, and often resent being associated with the historical Anabaptists and even think of the term as perjorative.  Anabaptists though, are indeed the origin of American Baptists and had a prevalent role in colonial and early American history, but whatever socio-political reasons, independent Baptist congregations rejected their Anabaptist connections and lineage, and continually splinter off.  Many baptists feel a close relation to the 1st century Church and believe they are following a purified way, some also feel connected with the Puritans and the Pilgrims, though this is not accurate in the sense historicity.
Anabaptists were called so because they believed in rebaptism of Catholics and Anglicans, and rejected fully infant baptism, believing baptism not a mystical Sacrament, but rather a conscious decision of free will, reserved for those of age.

I'm glad my baptist upbringing has some benefit here Smiley
stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
FormerReformer
Convertodox of the convertodox
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: I'll take (e) for "all of the above"
Posts: 2,435



WWW
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 04:56:39 PM »



Trevor if you are in the States, this is the best summation I've read here having grown up "Baptist". But there are some varieties. "Southern Baptists" are a bit different than the staunchly independent Baptists.



true, Southern Baptists have a heirarchical structure, and also are a bit less conservative socially than independents.  But they generally agree with the tenets and culture of American Baptists..



I don't know if I would consider the Southern Baptists to have a "hierarchical" structure.  There is the Southern Baptist Convention, which occasionally rules on matters of dogma (though far more often politics), but the rulings of the Convention aren't really binding in any sense of the word.  It generally exists more as a way of coordinating missionary efforts than anything else.

I also don't know if they could be considered "less conservative" than the Independent Baptists, but that could just be because my only exposure to the Independent Baptists was at those times that my family lived in the North, far away from a Southern Baptist church (People from the North being generally more "liberal" than those from the South). 
Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
sprtslvr1973
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA; Jurisdiaction of Dallas and the South
Posts: 680


"Behold I stand at the Door and Knock" Rev. 3:20


« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 09:50:20 PM »

[quote/]
Anabaptists were a particular branch of sectarian Protestants in Europe who went to colonial America and remained its own, organized denomination through the 19th century.  The independent and Southern Baptists who evolved out of the Southern and Apalachian regions of the US in the late 19th and early 20th century are staunchly independent from the Anabaptists, and often resent being associated with the historical Anabaptists and even think of the term as perjorative.  Anabaptists though, are indeed the origin of American Baptists and had a prevalent role in colonial and early American history, but whatever socio-political reasons, independent Baptist congregations rejected their Anabaptist connections and lineage, and continually splinter off.  Many baptists feel a close relation to the 1st century Church and believe they are following a purified way, some also feel connected with the Puritans and the Pilgrims, though this is not accurate in the sense historicity.
Anabaptists were called so because they believed in rebaptism of Catholics and Anglicans, and rejected fully infant baptism, believing baptism not a mystical Sacrament, but rather a conscious decision of free will, reserved for those of age.

I'm glad my baptist upbringing has some benefit here Smiley
stay blessed,
habte selassie
[/quote]

I had always thought Southern and to a slight less extent Independent Baptists* embraced Anabaptistism. I really don't know where Reformed Baptist churches originated as a unique belief and group originated from.
*The one and only Independent Baptist Fred Phelps openly hates Arminianism so here we have another example of how sometimes precise categorization is diificult
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 09:51:31 PM by sprtslvr1973 » Logged

"Into thy hands I commend my spirit"- Luke 23:46
“Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” - Mark 9:24
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 7,009


"My god is greater."


« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2010, 10:59:20 PM »

From what I've seen, the modern branches of anabaptism- Mennonites, Amish, Brethren- don't seem to be terribly nationalistic.
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake
FormerReformer
Convertodox of the convertodox
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: I'll take (e) for "all of the above"
Posts: 2,435



WWW
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2010, 11:09:38 PM »

I had always thought Southern and to a slight less extent Independent Baptists* embraced Anabaptistism. I really don't know where Reformed Baptist churches originated as a unique belief and group originated from.
*The one and only Independent Baptist Fred Phelps openly hates Arminianism so here we have another example of how sometimes precise categorization is diificult

Most Southern Baptists (during the time I was growing up, this may not reflect current SB teaching) who reject the Anabaptist descent do so out of an adherence to Landmarkism, a sort of psuedo-Apostolic descent.  They claim that the Baptist church is a descendant of the New Testament Church through various lines that had nothing to do with the "official" Church (that is, the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church).  They will trace their lineage through the Anabaptists to the Waldensians, from the Waldensians to the Donatists and Novatianists.  This is the same line of thought that leads many Baptists to reject the term "Protestant".
Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
blessedbeggar
poor wretch
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 74



« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2010, 11:59:39 PM »

From what I've seen, the modern branches of anabaptism- Mennonites, Amish, Brethren- don't seem to be terribly nationalistic.

This is my understanding as well. In fact, many are anti-nationalistic. As for Baptists..I was raised Missionary Baptist here in the heart of the Appalachians, which means that by default the Southern Baptist Convention holds much sway. The excellent summary post above seems to have covered the majority of tenets of the Baptist doctrine in my experience as well. The other comments that they are typically anti-Catholic and anti-Pentecostal/Charismatic would be quite accurate as well. I have always had difficulty in agreeing with their doctrine's in light of many contradictory passages from what they taught. Of course, this same issue arose in the current church I am exiting, a pentecostal Church of God....what the scripture and Church history tells us, and what we see the faith being carried out are two separate things. I give God all praise for opening my eyes, and leading me to the one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic True Church!
Logged

"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved."
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,293



« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 12:03:14 PM »

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue

I have it on good authority from a Southern Baptist friend that it is only the conservative Baptists who won't speak to you when they meet you in the liquor store.
 Grin
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,655



« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2010, 01:03:11 PM »

I had always thought Southern and to a slight less extent Independent Baptists* embraced Anabaptistism. I really don't know where Reformed Baptist churches originated as a unique belief and group originated from.
*The one and only Independent Baptist Fred Phelps openly hates Arminianism so here we have another example of how sometimes precise categorization is diificult

Most Southern Baptists (during the time I was growing up, this may not reflect current SB teaching) who reject the Anabaptist descent do so out of an adherence to Landmarkism, a sort of psuedo-Apostolic descent.  They claim that the Baptist church is a descendant of the New Testament Church through various lines that had nothing to do with the "official" Church (that is, the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church).  They will trace their lineage through the Anabaptists to the Waldensians, from the Waldensians to the Donatists and Novatianists.  This is the same line of thought that leads many Baptists to reject the term "Protestant".
LOL. The gnostic succession of heretics vs. the preached Apostolic Succession. Guess which is the sure bet.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2010, 01:16:58 PM »

See, I thought some baptists did believe in certain other categories of the clergy, because for whatever reason I though Bishop T.D. Jakes was a baptist, but when I went to check I saw that he isn't. Um... so you can ignore my ramblings, just wanted to post to say thanks for starting the thread.

I think you meant Bishop Eddie Long. He is or was part of the missionary Baptist denom. The full gospel missionary baptist denom also have bishops.

Bishop T.D. Jakes was raised as a Oneness Pentecostal in the P.A.W.(Pentecostal Assemblies of the World) denom.

He probably wants to be seen as a nondenominational mega church now, but who knows.

Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2010, 01:21:13 PM »

I had always thought Southern and to a slight less extent Independent Baptists* embraced Anabaptistism. I really don't know where Reformed Baptist churches originated as a unique belief and group originated from.
*The one and only Independent Baptist Fred Phelps openly hates Arminianism so here we have another example of how sometimes precise categorization is diificult

Most Southern Baptists (during the time I was growing up, this may not reflect current SB teaching) who reject the Anabaptist descent do so out of an adherence to Landmarkism, a sort of psuedo-Apostolic descent.  They claim that the Baptist church is a descendant of the New Testament Church through various lines that had nothing to do with the "official" Church (that is, the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church).  They will trace their lineage through the Anabaptists to the Waldensians, from the Waldensians to the Donatists and Novatianists.  This is the same line of thought that leads many Baptists to reject the term "Protestant".

True! When I was little I recall both my mom as well as one of the deacons telling me that we baptists came from John the Baptist.
Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2010, 02:37:48 PM »

[quote/]
Anabaptists were a particular branch of sectarian Protestants in Europe who went to colonial America and remained its own, organized denomination through the 19th century.  The independent and Southern Baptists who evolved out of the Southern and Apalachian regions of the US in the late 19th and early 20th century are staunchly independent from the Anabaptists, and often resent being associated with the historical Anabaptists and even think of the term as perjorative.  Anabaptists though, are indeed the origin of American Baptists and had a prevalent role in colonial and early American history, but whatever socio-political reasons, independent Baptist congregations rejected their Anabaptist connections and lineage, and continually splinter off.  Many baptists feel a close relation to the 1st century Church and believe they are following a purified way, some also feel connected with the Puritans and the Pilgrims, though this is not accurate in the sense historicity.
Anabaptists were called so because they believed in rebaptism of Catholics and Anglicans, and rejected fully infant baptism, believing baptism not a mystical Sacrament, but rather a conscious decision of free will, reserved for those of age.

I'm glad my baptist upbringing has some benefit here Smiley
stay blessed,
habte selassie

Quote
I had always thought Southern and to a slight less extent Independent Baptists* embraced Anabaptistism. I really don't know where Reformed Baptist churches originated as a unique belief and group originated from.
*The one and only Independent Baptist Fred Phelps openly hates Arminianism so here we have another example of how sometimes precise categorization is diificult


I'm sorry but the history in that quote isn't accurate. The link between Anabaptists and Baptists is weak (John Smyth, Thomas Helwys and company...around 1610 A.D.). This line of Baptists(general baptists and yes they came from English Separatism too) were influenced by the Mennonite Anabaptists but they didn't practice water Baptism by full immersion when they first began(the later particular Baptists would practice and teach it first). They practiced it by pouring. They were also more Arminian in theology and later on they became liberal and I think Uniterian? Hmm, I gotta double check my sources, but yeah, the American Baptists didn't come from them.

Baptists in America came from the English Separatist link by way of Henry Jacob and company. This group of English Baptists were called Particular Baptists(because they were Calvinistic), and they first began to exist some decades after Thomas Helwys's general Baptist group. Like around 1640 or 1680 A.D.....I forgot the exact date. But it was from this group of Baptists that the teaching and practice of Baptism by full immersion would eventually come about.


In America Roger Williams (the 17th century) is seen as being the one who started the first Baptist church in North America. As well as the one who started the colony Rhode Island. Other English Separatists as well as English particular Baptist separatists (in the 17th century) would migrate from England to the Americas. Setting up churches not only in New England, but also in the Mid-Atlantic, and South.

This is where American Baptist churches come from.

I will have to do a youtube video about this. ....well, one of these days.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 02:38:32 PM by jnorm888 » Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2010, 02:56:39 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I was raised a Baptist, was the son of a Baptist pastor and a good sunday school teaching mother, and have been around Baptists my whole life..

But as it was said before, what do they believe? There is quite a bit of diversity, but this is the inherent in the nature of protestant traditions which are individualistic, anti-authority based interpretations of faith.  Let me pray for accuracy but this is the testimony of my upbringing.

1) Baptists believe in the absolute, literal infallibility of the Holy Bible, preferably the good King James version, and often other translations are even demonized! Reading the Bible is central to all Baptist faith, and there is no Baptist without the Bible. This does not automatically mean that all Baptists constantly read and absorb the scriptures, no many of them are quite like many other kinds of people, and do not actually read the Bible often enough, but nonetheless its stories, symbols, imagery, music and themes are a constant feature of Baptist life.  All doctrine, all sermons, and beliefs MUST be rooted and demonstrated to be so in the Bible.  Biblical accuracy is highly favored.

2) Baptists reject any kinds of clerical authorities, no Bishops or Priests or any such hierarchies, rather only a Preacher/Pastor/Reverend is the head of a local church, and he is often elected by a council.  He takes care of any legal obligations for the church, but does not directly have any kind of authority, and most Baptists resent such pretensions as authority.

3) Baptists are the most staunchly anti-Catholic anti-Holy Tradition of the Protestants.  They reject all things remotely Popish as being quite literally from the devil.  This includes veneration of the Virgin, or the Saints, or even the Apostles. Also included are prayer books and Mass services. They often misinterpret these kinds of things to be against Scripture, but I do not honestly see how they can justify this in plain evidence of several passages.

4) Communion is a symbolic commemoration, the Real Presence is fundamentally rejected by all Baptists, and in fact is considered highly superstitious.

5)  Old Testament Old Testament Old Testament

6) fire and brimstone fire and brimstone fire and brimstone.  Everything is about going to Hell, Baptists are often more consumed with thoughts of Eternal Damnation and Hellfire then the Devil himself!

7) Good food and good music is the heart of worship in the Baptist community and the center of fellowship.

Cool For God and Country, most Baptists are vitriolically Patriotic and nationalistic, and many are fervent Zionists to boot!

This is all I can think of this limited time, I much like the way many folks refer to their Catholic upbringing, am a recovering Baptist (we both got a lot of baggage) Wink
This is not to say Baptists are bad people, no I say a lot of the above with a hint of innocent jest, and there is  a lot of piety, faith and wisdom in Baptists.  They love the Bible, and many pastors learn to study it in several languages such as Greek and Hebrew, and they have a thorough understanding of it.  Further, living in an unstructured religious environment, the people cling to faith with such tenacity that it is truly admirable.  Orthodox provide a structure, a lifestyle, a calendar, a rule book, a Holy Tradition, all of which the Baptists reject openly.  If anything, I'd say the definition of Baptists it to live in the realms of spiritual inspiration, this is why they are often called Charismatic Christians.  
stay blessed,
habte selassie


I agree with this assessment. Very well stated. When I first became a Christian (when I was supposedly "saved"), I joined Charles Stanley's church in Atlanta, Ga, where I was a member for about 5 years. The only thing I would add is that Baptists are very anti-Charismatic; that is, they completely reject any idea of speaking in tongues, etc.

My brother-in-law is the pastor of a "Fundamentalist Baptist" church. That's the actual name of his denomination- Funadmantalist Baptist. They make Southern Baptists seem like flaming liberals in comparison. So you can imagine the theological impasse that he and I face.


Selam


Hmm, I don't know when his particular Baptist group began, but I do know that alot of "Fundamentalist" protestant groups/churches started to pop up around the late 19th century to early 20th century.

The Baptist Bible Fellowsip International

The Baptist Missionary Association of America

and the Berean Fundamental Church

are just a few, but a good number of "Fundamentalist" protestant denominations popped up around that time period.
Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
Heorhij
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA, for now, but my heart belongs to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Posts: 8,576



WWW
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2010, 03:21:07 PM »

One of my students, who is also my Facebook friend, wrote this about herself in the section of the prophile called, "Religious Beliefs": "I am very Baptist. I like my chicken fried and my mashed potatoes covered with thick gravy." Smiley

This is irony, of course (BTW, she actually is a very devout Southern Baptist), but there is some truth to the statement that in the USA, being Baptist is associated with a certain lifestyle, habits, social and cultural values rather than with a certain theology.

As far as I, a diletant, see, some of the key points that characterize Baptists in the USA are these:

1. They believe in the principle, "once saved, always saved." According to Baptists, the moment you confessed with your lips in the presence of other people that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, you are saved and you are going to Heaven. Nothing can change that. Even if you fall into the vilest of sins after your confession, you are still saved and you are still going to Heaven. Some Baptist pastors, like late Rev. Dr. Adrian Rogers, call it "going to Heaven as a second-class passenger,' but it is still going to heaven and nowhere else.

2. The Bible is the inerrant Word of God that must be understood literally unless the Bible itself calls for understanding of its certain parts as allegory. The Old Testament is completely historical, just like the New. No other sources of the theological truth - no confessions, no creeds, no church council documents, no icons or any other religious images, no hagiography; extremely simple, plain church architecture.

3. Completely improvised Sunday service; no liturgy as such. The service includes singing of the hymns and a sermon by a pulpit minister. Musical instruments are OK and often even encouraged (in my town's First baptist Church there is almost a symphonic orchestra and a choir that sings oratories, which resemble me, who grew up in the former USSR, oratories sung in the USSR praising the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and our bright Communist future.Smiley)

4. Only adult "believer's Baptism."

5. Complete abstinence from alcohol. Frowning on "worldly entertainment," especially on dancing.

6. Generally conservative, "laissez-faire" small government - low taxes - free firearms sale view of the world.

7. American patriotism, including the full support of the military.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 03:21:39 PM by Heorhij » Logged

Love never fails.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,291


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2010, 03:21:46 PM »

Some info about the Fundamentalist Baptist denomination. Scary stuff.

http://www.baptistdeception.com/hello-world/



Selam
Logged

"If we are unwilling to accept any truth that we have not first discovered and declared ourselves, we demonstrate that we are interested not in the truth so much as in being right." ~ Thomas Merton ~
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2010, 03:27:50 PM »


Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


I don't know if I would consider the Southern Baptists to have a "hierarchical" structure.  There is the Southern Baptist Convention, which occasionally rules on matters of dogma (though far more often politics), but the rulings of the Convention aren't really binding in any sense of the word.  It generally exists more as a way of coordinating missionary efforts than anything else.

I also don't know if they could be considered "less conservative" than the Independent Baptists, but that could just be because my only exposure to the Independent Baptists was at those times that my family lived in the North, far away from a Southern Baptist church (People from the North being generally more "liberal" than those from the South).  

The Convention of Southern Baptists is almost a kind of Synod, and it determines the legitimacy of many Baptist churches and clergy, and to be scoffed or anathematized by this Convention is tantamount to excommunication in many Baptist circles.  That is what I meant by hierarchical, in that the Convention grants legitimacy and organization to Baptists.  It is not strictly enforced as in Orthodox/Catholic, the mandates of the Convention serve more as guidelines, but for all intents and purposes, in many Baptist communities the decisions of the Convention run the show.



I had always thought Southern and to a slight less extent Independent Baptists* embraced Anabaptistism. I really don't know where Reformed Baptist churches originated as a unique belief and group originated from.
*The one and only Independent Baptist Fred Phelps openly hates Arminianism so here we have another example of how sometimes precise categorization is difficult

Some perhaps, not it was not common amongst the several baptist churches I fellowshiped with growing up and even up until my adulthood.  I fellowshipped with baptist churches up until my Orthodox baptism when I was then excommunicated from my family church and kindly asked to leave Sad

From what I've seen, the modern branches of Anabaptist- Mennonites, Amish, Brethren- don't seem to be terribly nationalistic.
They are not, in fact Mennonites and Amish are staunchly ANTI-nationalistic, but I would say that perhaps this is part of what contributes to the split away of independent Baptists from their Anabaptist brethren.  

I had always thought Southern and to a slight less extent Independent Baptists* embraced Anabaptistism. I really don't know where Reformed Baptist churches originated as a unique belief and group originated from.
*The one and only Independent Baptist Fred Phelps openly hates Arminianism so here we have another example of how sometimes precise categorization is difficult

Most Southern Baptists (during the time I was growing up, this may not reflect current SB teaching) who reject the Anabaptist descent do so out of an adherence to Landmarkism, a sort of psuedo-Apostolic descent.  They claim that the Baptist church is a descendant of the New Testament Church through various lines that had nothing to do with the "official" Church (that is, the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church).  They will trace their lineage through the Anabaptists to the Waldensians, from the Waldensians to the Donatists and Novatianists.  This is the same line of thought that leads many Baptists to reject the term "Protestant".


BRILLIANT POST! That is exactly it.  Independent baptists believe themselves to be the true holders of Apostolic Succession, which is actually quite confusing because it is not in the literal sense, but the spiritual.  If you were to press a Baptist preacher or thumper to it, they would confess that there is no such thing as Apostolic Succession as understood by the Orthodox, as a continuous, unbroken line to the Apostle's confirmed in the Holy Spirit by the laying of hands and anointing.  Our clergy is linked literally by hand to the Apostles, where as the pseudo-Apostolic Succession of the independent baptists is more from a doctrinal interpretation, which is to say that baptists believe their churches, particularly those who meet in houses (common in the South) and not formal buildings, follow the truest manifestation of the Way, and that the tenets of independent baptists are directly the same as the Early Church.  The Baptists I grew up with, including my mother, virulently resent being called Protestants, even though it is the very definition of their faith (ie, to Protest the Roman Church) as they reject any connections with the historic protestant denominations, rather as you pointed out, follow a slippery slope that basically infers that today's independent baptist congregations have DIRECT (albeit loosely) connections to the VARIOUS Protestant and Reform movements of the history of the Roman Catholic Church.  Basically, a good Baptist will ideally find himself anywhere in the history books of Europe where there was a reform or separatist movement in the Catholic Church.  The real origin of the Baptists schism is over the doctrine of Sprinkling  Baptism.  Many "Baptist" movements arose in Europe during the 14th century after several councils recognized Sprinkling as perfectly legitimate baptisms, where as previously the Church had practiced triple immersion unless circumstances prohibited it.  The problem was that socio-culturally, Sprinkling erupted like a wildfire across Europe and many sincere Christians felt shortchanged.  It is a major beginning to the Reform movements that sparked the Protestant Reformation, as not only did it reflect a change in Dogma and Practice which offended the sentiments of many Churchgoers, but also reflects the decline moral state of apostasy in Rome which Calvin and Luther most vehemently opposed.  The irony of history is that initially it was not doctrine which separated the Protestants from the Catholics, it was morality and money.  The Protestants were sincere Catholics, from England to Spain to the Netherlands to Germany and France, but they were held under the sway of many morally and financially corrupt clergy from Rome.  This motivated many wealthy princes to literally capitalize on this socio-cultural situation, and to seize the moment and declare independence from the Latin Church and its clergy, sometimes for spiritual purposes, often times for financial gain (after all for example the Dutch were merchants and bankers, as were many French and Italians, who bitterly resented Church intrusion into economic spheres through tithe, taxes and usury laws).

In  other words, Baptist history is a combination of sincere pious reflection amongst the populace and its merging or exploitation by the financial and political leadership who began to flex their clout and move away from the control of Rome.

From what I've seen, the modern branches of anabaptism- Mennonites, Amish, Brethren- don't seem to be terribly nationalistic.

This is my understanding as well. In fact, many are anti-nationalistic. As for Baptists..I was raised Missionary Baptist here in the heart of the Appalachians, which means that by default the Southern Baptist Convention holds much sway. The excellent summary post above seems to have covered the majority of tenets of the Baptist doctrine in my experience as well. The other comments that they are typically anti-Catholic and anti-Pentecostal/Charismatic would be quite accurate as well. I have always had difficulty in agreeing with their doctrine's in light of many contradictory passages from what they taught. Of course, this same issue arose in the current church I am exiting, a pentecostal Church of God....what the scripture and Church history tells us, and what we see the faith being carried out are two separate things. I give God all praise for opening my eyes, and leading me to the one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic True Church!
Ahh the Appalachian churches, I also grew up, though here in Los Angeles, in Appalachian Missionary Baptist communities, which thrived in several places across the state.  We used to go to revivals many times a year, and it was good, fun and edifying.  Baptists as I said before, have good food and fellowship, and delightful worship music. We were so independent though, that we and several of our sister churches were all kicked out of the Convention (well this was in the Reagan days when the Convention was more a political pep rally anyways) and we thrived in our opposition to the Convention.  Amongst the spurned independent Baptists, the Convention of Southern Baptists became no different than the Vatican, and all the anti-Pope doctrines/sermons/ideas of the Baptists became readily applied to the Convention as well..

  Unfortunately the independent streak of their movement tends to breed self-righteousness, finger pointing, and PRIDE, the very antithesis of Orthodox worship Sad I went Orthodox because it was the CURE ALL to the negative aspects of my Baptist upbringing, though I still resent fire and brimstone, even from my priest or from the Church Fathers. I've come to accept that fire and brimstone preaching is not only from Baptists, it tends to be universally Christian.

I LOVE THIS THREAD. It has me so nostalgic and reminiscent of the past, I need to go hug my momma and hear one of here dear sweet songs to my soul..  Wink
stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 03:28:17 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,291


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2010, 03:49:02 PM »

I still think Charles Stanley is a great preacher. I would never recommend anyone listening to him though, since his ideas are so unOrthodox. But I know he loves Christ, as do many Baptists, Protestants, and Catholics. I don't mind "fire and brimstone" as long as it's directed against the right things. Call down fire upon ideas and evil practices, but don't call down fire upon people! Some of these Fundamentalist preachers seem to take great pleasure in preaching people into hell.


Selam
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 03:49:45 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"If we are unwilling to accept any truth that we have not first discovered and declared ourselves, we demonstrate that we are interested not in the truth so much as in being right." ~ Thomas Merton ~
chrevbel
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 708



« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2010, 06:10:30 PM »

Grew up a Southern Baptist.  To this point, I've been Baptist for a far greater portion of my life than I've been Orthodox.  For a very clear exposition of what Baptists (of the Southern type, at least) believe, check out:

http://www.sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp

This is The Baptist Faith and Message, and any SBer who says they aren't familiar with it hasn't been spending much time in their actual church.
Logged
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,420


« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2010, 07:05:49 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue

An Orthodox friend told me this joke once:

(I'm probably ruining it)
Orthodox and RC's don't recognize each other's Bishops.
RC's and Protestant's don't recognize each other's Sacraments.
...and Baptists don't recognize each other in strip clubs or bars.
Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,291


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2010, 07:40:58 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue

An Orthodox friend told me this joke once:

(I'm probably ruining it)
Orthodox and RC's don't recognize each other's Bishops.
RC's and Protestant's don't recognize each other's Sacraments.
...and Baptists don't recognize each other in strip clubs or bars.


Lol! Grin


Selam
Logged

"If we are unwilling to accept any truth that we have not first discovered and declared ourselves, we demonstrate that we are interested not in the truth so much as in being right." ~ Thomas Merton ~
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,655



« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2010, 09:35:49 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue

An Orthodox friend told me this joke once:

(I'm probably ruining it)
Orthodox and RC's don't recognize each other's Bishops.
RC's and Protestant's don't recognize each other's Sacraments.
...and Baptists don't recognize each other in strip clubs or bars.
Baptists do not believe in premarital sex-it might lead to dancing.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,655



« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2010, 09:37:29 PM »

I still think Charles Stanley is a great preacher. I would never recommend anyone listening to him though, since his ideas are so unOrthodox. But I know he loves Christ, as do many Baptists, Protestants, and Catholics. I don't mind "fire and brimstone" as long as it's directed against the right things. Call down fire upon ideas and evil practices, but don't call down fire upon people! Some of these Fundamentalist preachers seem to take great pleasure in preaching people into hell.


Selam
Boogey man theology-supposed to scare you into heaven.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
dcommini
Tha mi sgulan na Trianaid
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 1,203


Beannachd Dia dhuit

dcommini
WWW
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2010, 09:40:24 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue

An Orthodox friend told me this joke once:

(I'm probably ruining it)
Orthodox and RC's don't recognize each other's Bishops.
RC's and Protestant's don't recognize each other's Sacraments.
...and Baptists don't recognize each other in strip clubs or bars.
Baptists do not believe in premarital sex-it might lead to dancing.

Lol! I was a terrible Baptist as I love to dance.

Christian comedian Mark Lowry summed it up great in his broadway show "I can not dance tonight, or any other night... because I'm Southern Baptist!"
Logged

Gun cuireadh do chupa thairis le slàinte agus sona - May your cup overflow with health and happiness
Check out my blog...
sprtslvr1973
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA; Jurisdiaction of Dallas and the South
Posts: 680


"Behold I stand at the Door and Knock" Rev. 3:20


« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2010, 10:16:54 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue

An Orthodox friend told me this joke once:

(I'm probably ruining it)
Orthodox and RC's don't recognize each other's Bishops.
RC's and Protestant's don't recognize each other's Sacraments.
...and Baptists don't recognize each other in strip clubs or bars.
Baptists do not believe in premarital sex-it might lead to dancing.
The last joke is suppsed to read:
Q: "Why don't Baptists have sex standing up?"
A: "Too much like dancing"
Logged

"Into thy hands I commend my spirit"- Luke 23:46
“Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!” - Mark 9:24
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,291


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2010, 10:38:37 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue

An Orthodox friend told me this joke once:

(I'm probably ruining it)
Orthodox and RC's don't recognize each other's Bishops.
RC's and Protestant's don't recognize each other's Sacraments.
...and Baptists don't recognize each other in strip clubs or bars.
Baptists do not believe in premarital sex-it might lead to dancing.

And you know what dancing leads to: "mixed bathing"!


Selam
Logged

"If we are unwilling to accept any truth that we have not first discovered and declared ourselves, we demonstrate that we are interested not in the truth so much as in being right." ~ Thomas Merton ~
FormerReformer
Convertodox of the convertodox
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: I'll take (e) for "all of the above"
Posts: 2,435



WWW
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2010, 11:01:30 PM »

Many baptists (especially in North America) are really big on eternal security, "Once Saved Always Saved".

Yeah, but then once they see you at the grocery store buying a six pack it's "I wonder if he was REALLY saved?"   Tongue

An Orthodox friend told me this joke once:

(I'm probably ruining it)
Orthodox and RC's don't recognize each other's Bishops.
RC's and Protestant's don't recognize each other's Sacraments.
...and Baptists don't recognize each other in strip clubs or bars.
Baptists do not believe in premarital sex-it might lead to dancing.

And you know what dancing leads to: "mixed bathing"!


Selam

ROFL  Cheesy
Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
Cleopas
Bible Thumping, Tongue Talking, Faith Walking Christian
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Charismatic Evangelical
Posts: 445


If I'm my own Pope then I claim infalliablity. Ha!

perfecthart
WWW
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2010, 09:05:29 PM »

Baptist Christians, and churches, span a large spectrum of Christian thought. They are more a movement than a denomination, a movement consisting of several denominations, and other churches, etc., besides. Besides sharing the fundamental Christian beliefs, they usually have some core issues in common (like soul competency, Bible freedom, local autonomy, & separation of church and state), as well as a shared belief in believer's baptism, and that by immersion, of course.

But ... Baptist is not an isolated, clear cut, section of Evangelical Christianity. It's woven in and around nearly the whole of it; and may even stand apart from it in some cases. In fact, I recently shared a blog post on this very issue, dealing specifically with Pentecostalism, that you might enjoy. The catalyst for my sharing as much? I was recently selected interim Pastor of a Southern Baptist Church in this area, and I'm essentially a non-denominational, holiness-pentecostal leaning, minister.
Logged

Cleopas
Christopher Hart

"Every one, though born of God in an instant, yet undoubtedly grows by slow degrees” -- John Wesley
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,655



« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2010, 09:11:25 PM »

Baptist Christians, and churches, span a large spectrum of Christian thought. They are more a movement than a denomination, a movement consisting of several denominations, and other churches, etc., besides. Besides sharing the fundamental Christian beliefs, they usually have some core issues in common (like soul competency, Bible freedom, local autonomy, & separation of church and state), as well as a shared belief in believer's baptism, and that by immersion, of course.

But ... Baptist is not an isolated, clear cut, section of Evangelical Christianity. It's woven in and around nearly the whole of it; and may even stand apart from it in some cases. In fact, I recently shared a blog post on this very issue, dealing specifically with Pentecostalism, that you might enjoy. The catalyst for my sharing as much? I was recently selected interim Pastor of a Southern Baptist Church in this area, and I'm essentially a non-denominational, holiness-pentecostal leaning, minister.

Just about to have diner, but wanted to say, hello and glad to see you.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Cleopas
Bible Thumping, Tongue Talking, Faith Walking Christian
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Charismatic Evangelical
Posts: 445


If I'm my own Pope then I claim infalliablity. Ha!

perfecthart
WWW
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2010, 09:52:30 PM »

Just about to have diner, but wanted to say, hello and glad to see you.

Thanks friend.  Smiley I pop in here and there pretty regular. Just haven't posted in some time. Wink
Logged

Cleopas
Christopher Hart

"Every one, though born of God in an instant, yet undoubtedly grows by slow degrees” -- John Wesley
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2010, 12:20:28 AM »

Forgive my crudeness, but what I don't understand is when I see Protestant posters on these boards (not to single you out Cleopas) that defend Protestanism. I mean how can you seriously deny the historicity of the Orthodox Church as the true Church of Christ? How can you honestly just take the Bible, on its own, and apply an interpretation of it; or should I say a personal interpretation of it, and how do you know it's the correct way it is supposed to be interpreted.

You know it's funny anytime I run into a Baptist I always ask the question "How do you know the Bible is true?" and I can't get a straight answer, and rightfully so. Don't these people who derive Sola Scriptura ever ask themselves HOW the Bible was even formed and WHY it was formed the way it was?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,255



« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2010, 12:22:36 AM »

Trying to define "Baptist" is a bit like trying to define "Protestant." There may be a few central tenets (i.e. believer's baptism) that constitutes a Baptist church, but so-called "second tier" praxis and theology varies widely. Here in the American deep south, for example, you see serious divergence in theology in Baptists along racial/socioeconomic lines, and I know several black Baptist preachers who claim the title Bishop, something you would not see in white churches.

(They don't necessarily mean the same thing when they say "bishop" as when we do, however, and I know of churches that claim to have a bishop, a pastor, an elder and an overseer.)
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
Mivac
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 247


« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2011, 11:05:25 PM »

ok, so I know they are a pretty old Protestant denomination, but I don't know more than that.  he was part of an evangelical Christian club that I've since dropped.  he kept talking about when he was "saved".  he asked me when I was saved, and I responded with "Not sure, I'm still working that out."

he likes to talk with me because he says I'm one of the few people who are practicing Christians, and don't just carry the title.

this kid is the son of a Baptist pastor.

what exactly do Baptists believe?

So far there has been a lot of very good answers.  I came from what can only be called a non-denominational baptist church, affiliated with CB Northwest aka Conservative Baptist.  

One thing that is pushed is prayer, but not structured prayer, individually and as a group.  That does not mean on occasion that prayers pop up written by others that they like an will use in situations.  The prayers generally start  Heavenly Father, I just want or we ask, etc. (Add need or want).  To often the group prayers end up being a personal preaching moment by an individual to the group but as if they were speaking to God the Father in Jesus name.  

Community and relationships within the church is highly emphasized, with the pastors and laity pushing to make coffee dates, etc. with those in the church.  One thing we did was pushing being completely open and also very embracing of everyone that comes, get them quickly connected into the group, greeting at the door, passing out cookies, get them into a small group, etc. so they can feel like a part of the church and not an observer.

In this church, the range of doctrine was calvinist (all types) to arminian to a mixture of the two.

My wife is still part of the baptist church, as for me there is no turning back to being a baptist.

Personally, 20 minutes of songs, a few lines of prayer by the pastor and "worship leader" aka lead band member and a 45 minute speech of the pastors topical view did not seem like actual worship or beneficial.  Essentially, they pushed becoming like Christ Jesus, but have no real idea how to get from point A to point B.

Jim
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 11:13:02 PM by Mivac » Logged
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2011, 11:07:05 PM »

IIRC, they are descendants of John the Baptist...  Wink

(born and raised southern baptist right here)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 11:07:57 PM by Ortho_cat » Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,655



« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2011, 11:21:31 PM »

IIRC, they are descendants of John the Baptist...  Wink

(born and raised southern baptist right here)
LOL. Descended from someone who had no physical children.

How do the Baptist agree on who or what is a Baptist?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Ortho_cat
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: AOCA-DWMA
Posts: 5,392



« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2011, 11:23:27 PM »

IIRC, they are descendants of John the Baptist...  Wink

(born and raised southern baptist right here)
LOL. Descended from someone who had no physical children.

How do the Baptist agree on who or what is a Baptist?

They agree to disagree.
Logged
theo philosopher
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self-Ruled Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 315



« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2011, 11:40:40 PM »

IIRC, they are descendants of John the Baptist...  Wink

(born and raised southern baptist right here)
LOL. Descended from someone who had no physical children.

How do the Baptist agree on who or what is a Baptist?

The committee still hasn't come back on that one.

(And, no joke, the Southern Baptist Convention's major committee is title "The Committee on Committees.")
Logged

“Wherefore, then, death approaches, gulps down the bait of the body, and is pierced by the hook of the divinity. Then, having tasted of the sinless and life-giving body, it is destroyed and gives up all those whom it had swallowed down of old." - St. John of Damascus
That person
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 1,158


Long live Commie Superman


« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2011, 11:46:12 PM »

A bit of clarification on the Baptist/Anabaptist thing: John Smyth, the founder of the Baptist movement, was an opponent of Anglicanism who spent time in the Netherlands to escape persecution. There, he was heavily influenced by Mennonites and was convinced by them that Baptism should be a profession of faith for those who have already "gotten saved." His nationalism was a primary obstacle against him becoming Mennonite. He strongly opposed their pacifist ideals and he felt that becoming Mennonite would be tantamount to becoming Dutch. He then started his own church, as was the style at the time.

Some thing important to keep in mind about Baptist is that the local congregation is the ultimate authority in its own affairs. While many of these statements are true of some Baptist churches, very few are true of all. Even though a lot of people have mentioned OSAS, there is an entire denomination of Baptists founded to oppose the idea, and congregations within this association have plenty of free will in deciding how to teach and worship. The best way to learn about your friend's particular beliefs is to engage in dialog with them.
Logged

"Some have such command of their bowels, that they can break wind continuously at pleasure, so as to produce the effect of singing."- St. Augustine of Hippo

Movie reviews you can trust.
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2011, 03:57:23 AM »

Some thing important to keep in mind about Baptist is that the local congregation is the ultimate authority in its own affairs. While many of these statements are true of some Baptist churches, very few are true of all. Even though a lot of people have mentioned OSAS, there is an entire denomination of Baptists founded to oppose the idea, and congregations within this association have plenty of free will in deciding how to teach and worship. The best way to learn about your friend's particular beliefs is to engage in dialog with them.

I've met a few free will baptists, and one once asked me what the differences were between what the Church teaches what his church teaches, after asking me if I was Jewish. Not knowing the exact differences, and guessing that the "free will" meant no OSAS or predestination, I told him it was mostly how we view the Church and how we believe that God is present in and works in and through the Church. That link was very useful in understanding what they teach.
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
dcommini
Tha mi sgulan na Trianaid
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 1,203


Beannachd Dia dhuit

dcommini
WWW
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2011, 12:15:57 AM »

IIRC, they are descendants of John the Baptist...  Wink

(born and raised southern baptist right here)
LOL. Descended from someone who had no physical children.

How do the Baptist agree on who or what is a Baptist?

they compare fried chicken recipes... Also, if you condemn alcohol but can drink an Irish man and a German under the table, or condemn dancing but be able "pop lock and drop it" better than most, chances are you might be Baptist Tongue *

I think it has something to do with your theology and the tendency to make fun of Methodists all while bashing Catholics in the same sentence.

Or just having a sign that says you are a Baptist... I don't really know

*former Baptist, but still of Irish and German descent
« Last Edit: March 06, 2011, 12:17:14 AM by dcommini » Logged

Gun cuireadh do chupa thairis le slàinte agus sona - May your cup overflow with health and happiness
Check out my blog...
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,655



« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2011, 12:35:59 AM »

IIRC, they are descendants of John the Baptist...  Wink

(born and raised southern baptist right here)
LOL. Descended from someone who had no physical children.

How do the Baptist agree on who or what is a Baptist?

they compare fried chicken recipes... Also, if you condemn alcohol but can drink an Irish man and a German under the table, or condemn dancing but be able "pop lock and drop it" better than most, chances are you might be Baptist Tongue *
I was just talking with a Turk who was from Iconium/Konya and pointed out that it was the most religious il (proince), and the one with the highest consumption of alcohol.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
dcommini
Tha mi sgulan na Trianaid
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 1,203


Beannachd Dia dhuit

dcommini
WWW
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2011, 12:37:53 AM »

IIRC, they are descendants of John the Baptist...  Wink

(born and raised southern baptist right here)
LOL. Descended from someone who had no physical children.

How do the Baptist agree on who or what is a Baptist?

they compare fried chicken recipes... Also, if you condemn alcohol but can drink an Irish man and a German under the table, or condemn dancing but be able "pop lock and drop it" better than most, chances are you might be Baptist Tongue *
I was just talking with a Turk who was from Iconium/Konya and pointed out that it was the most religious il (proince), and the one with the highest consumption of alcohol.

survey says...
Logged

Gun cuireadh do chupa thairis le slàinte agus sona - May your cup overflow with health and happiness
Check out my blog...
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.228 seconds with 83 queries.