Author Topic: Met. Philip dismisses another priest  (Read 13207 times)

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Offline TheodoraElizabeth3

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Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« on: November 10, 2010, 08:27:57 PM »
Met. Philip has dismissed another priest, this time for posting comments on OCANews.org

http://www.ocanews.org/news/Yelosovich11.9.10.html

Quote:
Following the posting of two comments on OCANews.org last week Fr. Elias Yelovich, of the Antiochian St. James Mission in Westminster, MD, was dismissed from his parish and suspended by Metropolitan Philip.   

For shame, Met. Philip! For shame.

This dismissed priest was under Bp. Thomas.

I am active online on non-Orthodox forums, and I often get asked to recommend a parish. I will no longer recommend any Antiochian parish to anyone. Period. I'll send them to the Greeks, if necessary (I'm OCA, although used to be AOCA a few years back, and tend to avoid GOA parishes due to the heavy ethnicity and language issues), but absolutely, positively, under ANY circumstances I now REFUSE to send anyone to the Antiochians.

As a friend says, Met. Philip puts the "despota" in "Eis Polla."
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 08:47:13 PM by TheodoraElizabeth3 »

Offline bogdan

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2010, 09:05:06 PM »
Metropolitan Philip is completely out of control. God preserve us.

Offline biro

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2010, 09:06:46 PM »
Lord, have mercy.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2010, 09:09:41 PM »
Met. Philip has dismissed another priest, this time for posting comments on OCANews.org

http://www.ocanews.org/news/Yelosovich11.9.10.html

Quote:
Following the posting of two comments on OCANews.org last week Fr. Elias Yelovich, of the Antiochian St. James Mission in Westminster, MD, was dismissed from his parish and suspended by Metropolitan Philip.   

For shame, Met. Philip! For shame.

This dismissed priest was under Bp. Thomas.

I am active online on non-Orthodox forums, and I often get asked to recommend a parish. I will no longer recommend any Antiochian parish to anyone. Period. I'll send them to the Greeks, if necessary (I'm OCA, although used to be AOCA a few years back, and tend to avoid GOA parishes due to the heavy ethnicity and language issues), but absolutely, positively, under ANY circumstances I now REFUSE to send anyone to the Antiochians.

As a friend says, Met. Philip puts the "despota" in "Eis Polla."
One wonders if anyone will be left but Met. Philip when he's through.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2010, 09:25:17 PM »

Lord, have mercy!

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline PrincessMommy

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2010, 09:46:31 PM »
Yikes!  I recently recommended this parish to an inquiring friend.  What's also sad is that this is a fairly new parish. 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 09:47:16 PM by PrincessMommy »

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2010, 09:48:22 PM »
I hope the Patriarch of Antioch steps in and does something about this whole situation.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 09:49:08 PM by Ortho_cat »

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2010, 09:53:09 PM »
I know people are unhappy, but who will put their neck on the line and do something from "below"? If Pat. Ignatius IV doesn't do something, who will?
get rekt, nerd

Offline TheodoraElizabeth3

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2010, 09:58:37 PM »
Yikes!  I recently recommended this parish to an inquiring friend.  What's also sad is that this is a fairly new parish. 

I went to the mission's website and saw that it's only been around for a few years.

Someone definitely needs to step in. I know the AOCA has "self-rule" but surely that doesn't mean Met. Philip has permission to run amok.

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2010, 10:00:55 PM »
I know people are unhappy, but who will put their neck on the line and do something from "below"? If Pat. Ignatius IV doesn't do something, who will?

<a wayward catechumen raises his hand to volunteer for the cause>

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 10:06:30 PM »
I know people are unhappy, but who will put their neck on the line and do something from "below"? If Pat. Ignatius IV doesn't do something, who will?

<a wayward catechumen raises his hand to volunteer for the cause>

Well, I would as well, because what's the worst he can do to me? What's he going to do, excommunicate Mr. Nobody Layman? But then, it's exactly because I'm nobody that my voice wouldn't mean anything. Also, to some extent, I think we need to weather the storm. What he has been doing is wrong, but what should be the consequences? What are we talking about here? All I want to see is to have things rectified in the individual cases (though I guess the Bp. Mark thing is beyond repair by now?) and make sure Met. Philip doesn't do similar things in the future.
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Offline KBN1

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2010, 10:10:15 PM »
The only thing that is remotely humorous about this thread is the "Ivan The Terrible" tag.  Lord have mercy.

Offline TheodoraElizabeth3

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 10:11:28 PM »
The only thing that is remotely humorous about this thread is the "Ivan The Terrible" tag.  Lord have mercy.

I didn't do that! ::)

Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 10:15:14 PM »
The only thing that is remotely humorous about this thread is the "Ivan The Terrible" tag.  Lord have mercy.

I didn't do that! ::)

Guilty as charged... ;D

Offline Mattheos

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2010, 01:08:13 AM »
THIS IS OUTRAGE!   >:(
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2010, 01:17:54 AM »
Lord, have mercy.  That's really too bad.  Of coarse, unless all y'all know the entire back-story, it's really hard, it seems, to speak with any authority on these issues.  If I may inject a little country parlance, "No matter how flat you cook a pancake, they's still two sides."
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2010, 02:39:11 AM »
Did someone mention pancakes??  ;D




Offline arimethea

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2010, 04:42:15 AM »
I have been very quiet during all of this... it is time to begin a fast and prepare to be a witness and speak forth what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. I am ready to appeal, not only the Holy Synod of Antioch but, to take that appeal to Constantinople.

There is a cancer in the Archdiocese of North America of the Patriarch of Antioch but, Metropolitan Philip is not the root (at this point in his life the puppeteer has become the puppet), it goes much deeper and it is time for this to end.
Joseph

Offline mattymoo

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 07:06:10 AM »
I know people are unhappy, but who will put their neck on the line and do something from "below"?

I think Fr. Elias just did.

He may have been "punished" for it, but he spoke out according to his conscience and has set an example. Others may be waiting until a more effective time to speak out or may be working through other channels unbeknownst to us, but I think that in the end many will have taken the risks of "putting their necks on the line" and speaking or acting in regards to all that has been going on regarding the AOCA.

Offline arnI

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2010, 08:39:57 AM »

Lord have mercy!
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Offline tuesdayschild

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2010, 12:12:04 PM »
I have been very quiet during all of this... it is time to begin a fast and prepare to be a witness and speak forth what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. I am ready to appeal, not only the Holy Synod of Antioch but, to take that appeal to Constantinople.

There is a cancer in the Archdiocese of North America of the Patriarch of Antioch but, Metropolitan Philip is not the root (at this point in his life the puppeteer has become the puppet), it goes much deeper and it is time for this to end.

Lord, have mercy on your servant, Joseph.

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2010, 12:19:31 PM »
Lord, have mercy.  That's really too bad.  Of coarse, unless all y'all know the entire back-story, it's really hard, it seems, to speak with any authority on these issues.  If I may inject a little country parlance, "No matter how flat you cook a pancake, they's still two sides."

But one side can be golden brown and the other burnt black.
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Offline tomowapig

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2010, 12:20:30 PM »
Lord, have mercy.  That's really too bad.  Of coarse, unless all y'all know the entire back-story, it's really hard, it seems, to speak with any authority on these issues.  If I may inject a little country parlance, "No matter how flat you cook a pancake, they's still two sides."

Not only are there 2 sides, there's also the edges!  ;D

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2010, 12:20:54 PM »
I have been very quiet during all of this... it is time to begin a fast and prepare to be a witness and speak forth what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. I am ready to appeal, not only the Holy Synod of Antioch but, to take that appeal to Constantinople.

There is a cancer in the Archdiocese of North America of the Patriarch of Antioch but, Metropolitan Philip is not the root (at this point in his life the puppeteer has become the puppet), it goes much deeper and it is time for this to end.

My prayers for your witness.
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Offline tomowapig

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2010, 12:24:57 PM »
Lord, have mercy.  That's really too bad.  Of coarse, unless all y'all know the entire back-story, it's really hard, it seems, to speak with any authority on these issues.  If I may inject a little country parlance, "No matter how flat you cook a pancake, they's still two sides."

But one side can be golden brown and the other burnt black.

Ohh, the possibilities are almost endless.  Almost.  More pancakes, anyone? ;D

Offline tomowapig

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2010, 12:28:16 PM »
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk. 

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2010, 12:37:33 PM »
I have been very quiet during all of this... it is time to begin a fast and prepare to be a witness and speak forth what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. I am ready to appeal, not only the Holy Synod of Antioch but, to take that appeal to Constantinople.

There is a cancer in the Archdiocese of North America of the Patriarch of Antioch but, Metropolitan Philip is not the root (at this point in his life the puppeteer has become the puppet), it goes much deeper and it is time for this to end.

My prayers for your witness.

Having heard some of these priests speak in person - I wish you the best!  May the Lord guide your steps and words!

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Anastasios

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2010, 12:46:13 PM »
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 12:48:19 PM by Fr. Anastasios »
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Offline AMM

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2010, 12:48:53 PM »
Yikes and double yikes.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2010, 12:49:22 PM »
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.

Agreed.

Offline arnI

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2010, 01:16:54 PM »
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.

Agreed.

My parish is GOA, but since this AOA mission is a short drive for me, I have considered attending Vespers.  I am reluctant to now having read the exorcising and prophesying comments mentioned above ...
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Offline Lichnidos

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2010, 01:51:10 PM »
Quote
Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...
I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.
This too caught my eye, but I didn't take it literally. I took it to mean that Fr. Elias believes the man's piety far outweighed his own. But that's just me. Perhaps It should be looked into. However, I do think that we commit just as much as of an injustice by automatically, discounting the possibility.

 On the other hand ...

Quote
In the letter Fr. Elias was informed that due to his publicly "speaking out" against "recent actions" taken by the Metropolitan, he had been removed as the Priest at St. James. He was told to remove all his personal belongings from the rented church space immediately, and turn over his keys and all bank account information to a Parish Council member to be selected by Fr. Peter. The current Parish Council Chair was also removed.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 01:55:00 PM by Lichnidos »
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Offline Ortho_cat

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2010, 01:55:38 PM »
I wonder why the parish council chair was removed also?

Offline AMM

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2010, 01:59:02 PM »
One thing I have learned, and this is through direct experience, is there's always more to the story than there appears to be on the surface; and that bishops, priests and so on are in many ways unable to fully divulge details that would shed light on the situation.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2010, 02:00:15 PM by AMM »

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2010, 02:14:51 PM »
One thing I have learned, and this is through direct experience, is there's always more to the story than there appears to be on the surface; and that bishops, priests and so on are in many ways unable to fully divulge details that would shed light on the situation.

Indeed, I don't usually like to quote scripture out of context but I think that this passage is apropos. Without direct knowledge of what is going on and why, one needs to be careful in their words. If you have such direct knowledge, an internet forum is probably not the best  place to disseminate it in most cases.

Mathew 12:36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of
judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

Offline recent convert

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2010, 02:27:51 PM »
This one may be justified though & may just seem problematic because of timing? Any hope I have to believe for the better in this saga has always been generally wrong but at least then I generally find out the truth.
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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2010, 02:31:03 PM »
My heart goes out to the people in the parishes.  :'(

I wonder if anyone is going to call some sort of an emergency conference because of this?
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2010, 05:48:21 PM »
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.

I agree with your assessment, Father, and those comments about prophecy concerned me, I must say that other comments of Fr. Elias were very moving and, I think, spiritually accurate as to how one should act, not looking to the right or the left. I think he has done well in being obedient to the suspension, even if I think the Metropolitan suspended him for the wrong STATED reason of refusing to retract a comment that I found only to be a humble statement of honest confusion. Who isn't confused by the actions of Metropolitan Philip? While Fr. Elias could well have been suspended for bizarre spiritual happenings, it was not stated as the reason and their appears to have been no investigation. While there may be reasons not to state the actual purpose for a suspension or disciplinary action and there may be reasons not to state that there has been an investigation--reasons legitimate or not--such secretive and disingenuous action does not speak well for the Metropolitan or his administration. Disingenuity is a great problem for Orthodoxy in America. People react very badly and cynically to being led on. It's very frustrating that there is no straight answer, that the Metropolitan is not seen as taking the Gospel commandment of being the servant of all seriously, that there is no transparency or accountability regarding these actions or the collection, dispersement, and accumulation of funds. The Antiochian Archdiocese is approaching a crisis of confidence in its leadership. It does not good for the spiritual welfare of the archdiocese to have people feel alienated by their own bishops.
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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2010, 07:15:57 PM »
As a friend says, Met. Philip puts the "despota" in "Eis Polla."

Or, rather, he puts the "despot" in "despota".
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Offline TheodoraElizabeth3

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2010, 09:12:06 PM »
Aside from the fact that there very well could be more to this situation, the entire situation just leaves a bad taste in one's mouth, especially the heavy-handed way Met. Philip is acting. I wonder how many people are looking at their priests and wondering if their pastor will be next. It creates all sorts of instability, real or perceived, that didn't need to be there.

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2010, 09:29:27 PM »
I need to get to the Church Abroad.

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2010, 10:01:11 AM »
I need to get to the Church Abroad.

Please do not take this as not a comment on the Church Abroad my friend., but remember that wherever you may go on your journey, the grass is not always greener on the other side. This too shall pass.

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2010, 11:20:25 AM »
I need to get to the Church Abroad.

I went through the same thing 15 years ago. 
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2010, 11:29:47 AM »
Speaking of sides, and edges with regards to Fr. Elias' dismissal, I have a really, really sneaky suspicion that there is *much* more going on here than meets the eye or gets published on the web.  All apart from the fact that +Phillip is acting like a dictatorial jerk.  

Agreed. Metropolitan Phillip is trying to reign in the priests and seems to be approaching the issue heavy-handedly, but read the priest's comments. He has a layman in his parish who allegedly has the gifts of prophecy and clairvoyance--is this layman in deification or illumination? Maybe, but that is exceedingly rare, even among monks. And this layman is directing the priest's spiritual life? The priest refers to this more than once.  The demons "always" leave when exorcised? Some of the Apostles were not able to always cast out the demons...

I don't deny that God can give spiritual gifts even in this age, but they are given only to those in deification or at least illumination, and it is almost exclusively monastics who receive the gift of prophecy in this age. In fact, there is only one person who has been canonized in the Church Age with the title of Prophet, and that is St. John the Prophet, disciple of Elder Barsanuphios (who lived in absolute obedience, submitting all his visions to his Elder first).  Regardless of whether this layman has the gift of prophecy, a prophet is not a spiritual father, and something sounds wrong, from my reading of the comments. I would not be surprised if there is much more to this story.

Agreed.

I must also confess that I have never seen such things in an Orthodox Church. On the one hand, we do know that these things did happen in the distant past and there have been somewhat satisfactory explanations why they had not continued on for centuries now. On the other hand, we cannot dismiss them just because of the historical record; how can we gainsay the Holy Scriptures, based on  after-the-fact reasoning, and who knows what His will and plans are? This could be like the teachings of the Lord in John 6 that were considered "hard" by many of His disciples. I suspect that these events may be considered as a rebuke to some of us, clergy and laity alike, who have not experienced them. If so, it may be time for the Saint Ephraim's prayer.

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Re: Met. Philip dismisses another priest
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2010, 11:33:35 AM »

I must also confess that I have never seen such things in an Orthodox Church. On the one hand, we do know that these things did happen in the distant past and there have been somewhat satisfactory explanations why they had not continued on for centuries now. On the other hand, we cannot dismiss them just because of the historical record; how can we gainsay the Holy Scriptures, based on  after-the-fact reasoning, and who knows what His will and plans are? This could be like the teachings of the Lord in John 6 that were considered "hard" by many of His disciples. I suspect that these events may be considered as a rebuke to some of us, clergy and laity alike, who have not experienced them. If so, it may be time for the Saint Ephraim's prayer.

They have continued to happen through the centuries, up to the present day, in the Optina Elders and St. Cosmas of Aitolia, Elder Ieronymos of Aegina (+1960s), St. John Maximovitch....but always the people given these gifts in recent centuries are monastics.
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