Topic: Any regrets?

[Νεκτάριος]

When you were converting how did you decide which jurisdiction to join?

Also having converted what are your regrets?

[Elisha]

As a lay person why would you join a jurisdiction?  I would think that one would join the nearest parish that they would find comfortable in attending and that met their spiritual needs.

[moronikos]

I never thought that I was joining a jurisdiction--I was joining a parish.  There were only two parishes in town, GOA and AA.  I joined the AA parish for several reasons

1)  I had a friend who was a member of the AA parish
2)  I had already established a relationship with the priest of the AA parish
3)  I am not Greek, I don't speak Greek, I did not want to become Greek, and I don't like feta cheese or stuffed grape leaves.

Regrets?

Only that I didn't find Orthodoxy before I married.

[Νεκτάριος]

I joined the GOA as it is only about three miles from my house.  

My regret is that I didn't take enough time to look around for a parish where I felt at home.  If I had to do it all over again I wold have searched at all the parishes in the area first before picking one to join.  Doing it over again I would have spent more time trying out the "traditonalist" parishes (JP, Serbian and ROCOR) before goign GOA.

[Historynut]

No regrets about joining the GOA but again my parish is very friendly and being in a small town its my only reasonable choice. The only thing I do miss has nothing to do with the parish or anything but being a newly converted baptist i kinda miss the old school protestant hymns oh well thats a very very very little thing.

[Αριστοκλής]

I joined the GOA as it is only about three miles from my house.  

My regret is that I didn't take enough time to look around for a parish where I felt at home.  If I had to do it all over again I wold have searched at all the parishes in the area first before picking one to join.  Doing it over again I would have spent more time trying out the "traditonalist" parishes (JP, Serbian and ROCOR) before goign GOA.  

So why can't you yet check out a parish where you would feel more at home?

{What's with "Avenge the GOA"?}

Demetri

[Νεκτάριος]

So why can't you yet check out a parish where you would feel more at home?

I'm planning to, eventually...but I really don't want to be a jurisdiction hopper or appear to be one.  And it is hard to pass up a parish that is within bike distance when you are short on gas money...

Plus it is hard to switch parishes....that is why I said I regret not doing this right away.

[Αριστοκλής]

3)  I am not Greek, I don't speak Greek, I did not want to become Greek, and I don't like feta cheese or stuffed grape leaves.

That's funny! Most Greeks will never admit it, but grape leaves and much, if not most, of Greek cooking are Arab or Turkish dishes.

Demetri

[neworthodox]

Our first visit to an Orthodox church was to a GOA mission parish; the people couldn't have been nicer, but it "felt" very ethnic. The person who invited us to that church(and became my husband's godfather) suggested we try the OCA parish, (he had met some of the members at a Pan-Orthodox service)saying they were mostly converts and we might feel more comfortable there. So we did and fell in love with the people and the priest.Recently we were kidding that if we had an "ethnic" festival we would have to serve jello salad, Cheez Whiz and green bean casserole, although we do have quite a few Georgians and Russians.
(I was formerly cradle Lutheran and I miss the hymns also, as well as knowing the jokes. And believe it or not, I had a strong ethnic background that I had to turn my back on to convert. All my family for umpty-ump years had been staunch German Lutherans. Sometimes being a convert is like being the new in-law at a family reunion. )

[David]

I did not find out about Orthodoxy on the net, but by knowing a priest who was the father of a close friend in high school.  When I decided to seek truth he was able to help me, and I'm still a member of that parish six years later.  

I see no desire to change, and I have absolutely no regrets.  I've been to at least 30 Orthodox churches, and I can't think of a single one I'd rather be a parishoner at than at home.  My only regrets are my own sinfulness and that I have put so little of what I have learned into practice.

[TonyS]

As a lay person why would you join a jurisdiction?  I would think that one would join the nearest parish that they would find comfortable in attending and that met their spiritual needs.

Elisha,

I had not heard an Orthodox express this sentiment before, basically that you can be an "Orthodox Christian at-large."  AFAIK everyone belongs to a jurisdiction.   The parish you belong to has a jurisdiction, you were received into a jurisdiction, no matter how you were received.  You are part of a Church.  Granted, jurisdiction matters less it seems for the laity than for clergy, but it still matters.

TonyS

[TonyS]

I think that the sentiments of the posters who have said that you have to find a parish that you are comfortable in.  Although, admittedly, jurisdiction often has something to do with it, it is not all of it.

[Asteriktos]

I regret that I didn't spend more time exploring jurisdictions, and the various theological problems that exist. Maybe if I did, I wouldn't have been in 2 jurisdictions within 2 years of being Orthodox, and possibly going to a 3rd one by the time I've been Orthodox for 3 years. I guess it's hard for inquirers to control their zeal sometimes, though

[Νεκτάριος]

I guess what I was trying to say is what I learned is take your time in selecting a parish.

[Edwin]

:You are part of a Church. :

But in Orthodoxy isn't there only _one_ Church?

Edwin

[TonyS]

:You are part of a Church. :

But in Orthodoxy isn't there only _one_ Church?

Edwin

Edwin,

Yes and no.  Obviously an Orthodx Christian belongs to The Orthodox Church.  However, from earliest times the Church has been governed locally.  There are obvious reasons for this such as being acquainted with the needs of the local community.  

I think it is obvious that there is the Russian Church, the Serbian Church, the Greek Church, etc.  Each one of these has responded differently at different times to the local needs of the community it cared for and of which it was and is composed.  Yet, there have been different disciplines and practices laid down.  To cite some of these:  reception of converts, (re)marriage of clergy, impediments to ordination, etc.  

All of the above three examples impact the believer.  When a believer moves into another canonical territory or into the "Diaspora" it gets confusing.  But still, a bishop who belongs to a jurisdiction exercises some authority over that individual.  Parishes keep "metrical records."  When you are baptized you become part of a jurisdiction no matter where you live.  

TonyS

[Νεκτάριος]

Regarding jurisdiction I feel (probably wrongly too) that a person really is just Orthodox.  Of course you have to have REAL bishops etc. but all the politics just gets old.  When Father Gerasim (the one who lived as a monk in Alaska by Saitn Herman's relics) was asked about the OCA / ROCOR rift he responded "My jurisdiction is Christ."  For lay people I think this should be the norm feeling.  Bishops and politicians can have their schisms, but just let the lay people be Orthodox.

[Asteriktos]

For lay people I think this should be the norm feeling.  Bishops and politicians can have their schisms, but just let the lay people be Orthodox.

Where the Bishop is, there is the Church. Where the schismatic bishop is, there is the schismatic Church. Sorry, hate to burst your bubble, but you can't duck out of the human crap and just focus on the "spiritual" stuff. Life sucks, and schisms happen; those who refuse to deal with it are worse off than those who jurisdiction hop every few years.

[Linus7]

For lay people I think this should be the norm feeling.  Bishops and politicians can have their schisms, but just let the lay people be Orthodox.

Where the Bishop is, there is the Church. Where the schismatic bishop is, there is the schismatic Church. Sorry, hate to burst your bubble, but you can't duck out of the human crap and just focus on the "spiritual" stuff. Life sucks, and schisms happen; those who refuse to deal with it are worse off than those who jurisdiction hop every few years.

What about those simple folks who have trouble keeping up with which bishop is which?

Church history can be the Gordian Knot, even for those of us who have been trained in history, and how many people - monks included - can honestly say they have read everything the Fathers wrote?

How many of us are experts in canon law?

I study, and I must admit my head is spinning most of the time.

The best I can do is to cry out, "Lord, have mercy!"

If a bishop does something really flagrant, then, yeah, I can see your point.

[moronikos]

The Pharisees and the Sanhedrin had people who were supposedly experts in canon law.  What did it get them?  They killed the Lord of Glory.

[PhosZoe]

Well seeing that my current parish is the only church in town, I had no choice.  It's technically Antichion but the people are everything from White converts to Greek, Russian, Serbian,Romanian,Indian,Chinese,Bulgarian,Ukrainian and 2 actual Syrians.
I feel that my current parish is the future of what small town american orthodoxy will look like.  Many young ethnics like myself move away from the "village" like surroundings of our ethnic neighborhoods. While I don't think that the "ethnic qualifer" will ever go away as there are many thriving ethnic communities in larger cities.  There are those of us who do get out of our communities  and we won't settle for the local Catholic, Baptist or Episcopalian church. (Aside: apparently there is a heavy Greek population in my town that joined the Episcoplian church due to the fact there was no Orthodox church in my town until 1987)

Orthodox churches outside of the "ethnic enclaves" are nicer to converts...Before moving to southern Indiana the only "converts" of the orthodox church were those who married into the ethnic community  or they were like me and trying to re-connect with thier ethnic roots. Very few white people came to Orthodoxy on thier own accord.

Regrets? I was agnostic before coming to Orthodoxy. Sometimes I miss the freedom of doing whatever I wanted without thinking about it. Becoming orthodox has made me face some very painful issues in my life. Sometimes I wish I didn't have to face those issues, but I know its ultimatly for my own good but I can still stomp my feet and say "I don't like this".  I also feel alien from most of my family and friends who are not orthodox.  It's not that they are against my conversion, they don't understand it.

Ok, enough rambling from me...

[gregory2]

My priest said that he heard in seminary "the road to hell is lined with the skulls of bishops" - meaning that the more responsible one is for someone else's salvation, the higher God will hold that person accountable.  

So I do think a wayward bishop is much more dangerous than a lay person who doesn't understand all the intricacies of everything but just wants to be faithful to Christ!  Years ago, when the New Calendar was adopted, many of the faithful observed both holy days for a while -- the new calendar one, and the old calendar one about 13 days later, just because they weren't aware what they were supposed to do.

[Νεκτάριος]

Where the Bishop is, there is the Church. Where the schismatic bishop is, there is the schismatic Church. Sorry, hate to burst your bubble, but you can't duck out of the human crap and just focus on the "spiritual" stuff.  Life sucks, and schisms happen; those who refuse to deal with it are worse off than those who jurisdiction hop every few years.

I am speaking of Orthodox Churches that are in communion (or indirect communion).  Such as lay people should not be concerned with the JP bickering with the AP or ROCOR and OCA bickering etc when both groups are Orthodox and politics is what is being debated.  

I was not speaking of the hypothetical convert that say joines the Antiochians, decides they are graceless heretics, becomes Orthodox again (in his eyes) by joing ROCOR and then thinks they have joined the apostacy so joins the GOC...

[amnesiac99]

When you were converting how did you decide which jurisdiction to join?

Also having converted what are your regrets?

I didn't have much choice in choosing the jurisdiction into which I was received; the only church (of which I was aware at the time) even remotely close to me was a Greek parish. Later, I found out about an Antiochian parish not too much farther away, but I like my present parish.

As far as regrets... as the song says, "I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention." I'm quite happy where I am; the people at my parish are warm, welcoming, and reflective of Christ's Light. Father may be a little, as he likes to put it, relaxed about some things -- but it is where I will work out my salvation.

[Elisha]

My priest said that he heard in seminary "the road to hell is lined with the skulls of bishops" - meaning that the more responsible one is for someone else's salvation, the higher God will hold that person accountable.  

So I do think a wayward bishop is much more dangerous than a lay person who doesn't understand all the intricacies of everything but just wants to be faithful to Christ!  Years ago, when the New Calendar was adopted, many of the faithful observed both holy days for a while -- the new calendar one, and the old calendar one about 13 days later, just because they weren't aware what they were supposed to do.

Actually, it goes something like, "The road to hell is paved with the bones of preists, with the skulls of bishops as lamp posts."  or whatever.  

Where the Bishop is, there is the Church. Where the schismatic bishop is, there is the schismatic Church. Sorry, hate to burst your bubble, but you can't duck out of the human crap and just focus on the "spiritual" stuff.  Life sucks, and schisms happen; those who refuse to deal with it are worse off than those who jurisdiction hop every few years.

So what is this supposed to mean to me?  I was raised in an Antiochian parish (Chrismated when I was 12) and belonged until I moved out of the house when I was 19.  A year or so later, after moving several hundred miles up north, the first parish I found was an OCA parish where I've been a tithing member. There's a small Antiochian mission about the same distance away from where I live, but they arrived after I became entrenched in my present parish.  So, am I supposed to crawl back to Bishop Joseph and beg forgiveness for leaving the Antiochians?  I don't even remember if he was the Bishop in the west when I left.  No, as a lay person, I don't need to be concerned with this.  This is America.  As sinful/heretical/non-canoncical/whatever this situation is, it is reality and we have to deal with the overlapping jurisdictions.  Find a good parish in your community and belong to it.

[Fr. David]

I have never encountered any difficulties (either from my priests or within myself) regarding the change in jurisdiction, but I will say this: I do wish I had allowed myself to more fully acknowledge doubts that I was having while converting, i.e., the relationship of icons with the incarnation, the ability to determine that a council is ecumenical and authoritative, my initial desire to be (re-?)baptized, etc.

I'm no longer persistently "troubled" by these questions, but they were questions I just "pushed to the backburner," only to have to confront after chrismation.  To those looking to enter the Church: You'll always confront things which trouble you after entering that you may not have thought of before, but if you're having "sticking points" NOW, confront them NOW and honestly decide what side of the fence you're really on.  Makes things a lot easier on you and everyone else.

Peace,

Bryan Peter

[sdcheung]

I never thought that I was joining a jurisdiction--I was joining a parish.  There were only two parishes in town, GOA and AA.  I joined the AA parish for several reasons

1)  I had a friend who was a member of the AA parish
2)  I had already established a relationship with the priest of the AA parish
3)  I am not Greek, I don't speak Greek, I did not want to become Greek, and I don't like feta cheese or stuffed grape leaves.

Regrets?

Only that I didn't find Orthodoxy before I married.

In short..
U is Anti-Greek.

[Bogoliubtsy]

In short..
U is Anti-Greek.

Doesn't sound "anti-Greek" to me...just sounds "anti-joining an ethnicity as a requirement to fit into a Church." Or perhaps "anti-feeling like an outsider because I'm not Greek in a very Greek Church." ?

[Fr. David]

That's definitely something I've never understood: why some folks are more insistent on being Gk. Orthodox or Rus. Orthodox than Orthodox Christian.  I'm sure many saw the part of My Big Fat Gk. Wedding where the boyfriend was baptized, after which is first words were, "I'm Greek!"  NO, you're NOT.  You're CHRISTIAN.  Sorry, but I've had some experiences while converting that were either just WRONG or merely unexplained.

Bryan Peter

[Orthodoc]

[That's definitely something I've never understood: why some folks are more insistent on being Gk. Orthodox or Rus. Orthodox than Orthodox Christian. ]

There are an awful lot of us who are Orthodox don't understand it either, including myself.  That's why I am a member of the OCA (Orthodox Church In America) and identify myself as an 'Orthodox Catholic'.  What's important is what comes after the title 'Orthodox', not what comes before.  

Orthodoc

[cizinec]

My wife and I joined the Serbian Orthodox Church.  

Regrets?  No.  Most people there are immigrants and don't care that we don't know Serbian (although we're picking it up quickly).  We don't make a big deal out of not being Serbs and neither do they.

They practice their faith according to Serbian traditions, as they should, and we also follow Serbian traditions because they integrate our home and work lives in an intimate way with our church.  That is probably why we joined the Serbian jurisdiction.  We were accustomed to Old Slavonic, although not to the extent used there.  I've found it to be extremely simple to come to understand things in Slavonic I have sung innumerable times in English.  It's quite easy to pick out the meaning of the words.  

Our priest adjusts the language in the liturgy depending on the number of Americans to Serbs at any particular service.  Since we are in the choir, it keeps us on our toes.

[J]

My only regret has to do with the military.  I don't regret signing up, or the job I'll be doing, but only the spiritual repurcussions of such a mode of employment and service.  Before going to basic training, I was making spiritual progress, at least I felt like I was, but then I put myself in a situation that caused a lot of worldly feelings to resurface, and my spiritual state has been in constant turmoil ever since.  The worst part is, I don't seem to have much of a source of guidance for this sort of thing, since my Spiritual Father lives pretty far away and is usually fairly busy, and I don't want to bother the priest at our new church (since we're new there and he's pretty busy as it is in any case).  But other than the conflict therein, I don't regret it at all.  I guess I just regret my own shortcomings as a sinner, especially when they falsely represent my faith.

[shanmo9]

I am a recent convert, and my original contact was was with a Priest in the GOA. Admittedly, my wife and I felt a bit out of place in such an "ethnic" enviroment, but as we have made friends and grown in knowledge our level of comfort has increased.

Also, the fact that we have a very caring and attentive Priest who has always been availiable to answer our concerns has made adjustment a lot easier. ( he by the way is Italian)

We are even learning a little Greek!

[4Truth]

I became Orthodox; my purpose was not to "join a jurisdiction."  
As with many people, what was available was what I joined.  However, I have not remained with that jurisdiction.  
Only after I had been within the faith for a number of years did I learn about all of the internecine warfare within Orthodoxy.  I'm very grateful that God "hid" all of that from me for a while.  If He had not, I might not have converted.  At the time, I literally was at the dangerous point that if Orthodoxy could not persuade me that it was/is the true faith, I would have abandoned Christianity.
I never worried much about cultural/ethnic differences, because I knew that they were far secondary to the faith.

[spartacus]

When you were converting how did you decide which jurisdiction to join?

Also having converted what are your regrets?

My family and I did not join a jurisdiction. We joined a parish -- a community of faith.

Our only regret is not discovering our parish sooner.

[spartacus]

Where the Bishop is, there is the Church. Where the schismatic bishop is, there is the schismatic Church. Sorry, hate to burst your bubble, but you can't duck out of the human crap and just focus on the "spiritual" stuff. Life sucks, and schisms happen; those who refuse to deal with it are worse off than those who jurisdiction hop every few years.

Funny....I never read anything about a church having anything to do with Bishops Popes or anything like that. The New Testament teaches us that the Church s the People...and Christ is the head.

Funny, I focused only on the spiritual and practical until I visited this site. Glad I discovered this site AFTER I discovered my parish.

[Brendan03]

It's interesting how we all come to things.

The priest whom I approached when inquiring was very up-front with me and basically said, from day one, that in joining the Orthodox Church I was exchanging one set of problems for a different set of problems, and I think that this approach really helped build a lot of credibility for me.  When I entered the Orthodox Church I wasn't entering with a blind eye to the problems within the Orthodox Church, so I haven't been disillusioned by any of them that I've encountered in the past several years, and none of them have made me regret my decision in any way.

[Carpatho-Rusyn]

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=3117.msg38269#msg38269 date=1080528354]
When you were converting how did you decide which jurisdiction to join?

Also having converted what are your regrets?
[/quote]

My grandparents were Russian Orthodox and I felt comfortable with this "Russian" Orthodox Church I found on the Internet of all places. It happened to be OCA......no regrets, not one. Thank you God!

[DavidH]

I came to the Faith from a charismatic background. I have no regrets but I do sometimes miss the close spiritual friendships. They seem to put more emphasis on fellowship outside of church with like-minded believers than I have experienced in Orthodoxy. It was really helpful and envigorating as an aid in daily living out Christianity.
   As for my lack of that experience in Orthodoxy- it could be any one of many factors besides blaming the "system."
   
   In Christ,
Rd. David

[aserb]

Although raised Catholic my fatherand his family where Serbian Orthodox. I have no regrets in converting to the Orthodox faith. However, I have truly been disgusted with the amount of poltics in my parish in particular in terms of running the parish and peolpe jockeying for position in church government.

[Thomas]

My wife and I came into the Orthodox Church under the GOA. When we moved we moved to a town where the closest Orthodox church was 50-60 miles away in any direction. While we were attending various area parishes, we began to attend a ROCOR services at a monastery and having in home services while going to major feast days either at the monastery or another ROCOR parish 200 miles away. At the request of the children who wanted a closer parish, with more pastoral and youth activities,ÂÂÂ  we began going to an Antiochian parish about 50 miles from our home.ÂÂÂ  We see our selves as American Orthodox Christians---we are not ethnicallyÂÂÂ  focused, although we do try to stay at a parish for the duration of our location move.

We have gotten something out of each jurisdiction:
a, GOA gave us the opportunity to ground ourselves in the teachings of Orthodoxy and cast off our Old Mormon belief system. Through adult and youth Sunday school classes our questions were answered and we became Orthodox Christians [This was despite the fact when we first got there the priest said "Why would you ever wqnt to become Orthodox, you aren't even Greek!]
b.ÂÂÂ  ROCOR introduced us to the wonders of monasticism, the teachings of the church fathers, the mysticism of the Orthodox Church, confession, and the proper use of a spiritual father. [No mention of not being Russian or beingÂÂÂ  a convert ever came up---they were just anxious to share with us the vision of Holy Russia]
c.ÂÂÂ  The Antiochians have taught us how to live an Orthodox life in a secular world, how to evangelize others in an Orthodox manner, and understand that within Orthodoxy there are sometimes disagreements about the non-essentials but let us know that we can studyÂÂÂ  all sides and prayerfully approach life so we can live a more holy life. With the Antiochians we learned that Orthodox Christians are not always sad and somber but there is joy and laughter as well.

We are thankful for everything that we have received from the various jurisdictions we have had the blessing to be a part ofÂÂÂ  in our various moves around the state.

In Christ,
Thomas

[irene]

Off the subject, but I wanted to say how much i always enjoy reading and learn from Thomas.  You seem to be very fair, and have a gentle spirit. 
Back to the subject, it really comes down to individuals, checking it out yourself,  and not generalizations....otherwise one might miss out.   For as many as might say this jurisdiction is a certain way, you will find just as many telling you differently.

[GiC]

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=3117.msg38269#msg38269 date=1080528354]
what are your regrets?
[/quote]

Ich bereue nichts.

[Zoe]

That's definitely something I've never understood: why some folks are more insistent on being Gk. Orthodox or Rus. Orthodox than Orthodox Christian.  I'm sure many saw the part of My Big Fat Gk. Wedding where the boyfriend was baptized, after which is first words were, "I'm Greek!"  NO, you're NOT.  You're CHRISTIAN.  Sorry, but I've had some experiences while converting that were either just WRONG or merely unexplained.

Bryan Peter

Of course you realize that movie was just making fun of the obvious correlation within the Greek community of "Greek-ness" and "Christian-ness".  But the point is taken.  I also feel the need to mention that that movie describes my LIFE.   

I do, however, have a question:  I'm a cradle Greek Orthodox.  Iif I moved somewhere and there were no Greek parishes near me (or a different jurisdiction was closer), would I have to be "received" in some way by that jurisdiction?  My instinct is to say no, but some of you are referring to different jurisdictions' practices (preparation for taking communion, confession, prayer rules, etc) as though they are not compatible with all other Orthodox churches, to the point where it sounds like these customs are dogmatized.  Are different jurisdictions that incompatible?  I've taken communion in my friend's Antiochian church where her father is a priest, clearly that's not "wrong", right?

[irene]

Oh, I have thought of something that I haven't resolved, which could possibly be a form of regret down the road.
   
Each year, scholarships are given, and some of the scholarships require the recipient to be of Greek origin. So, in the GOC, even if my kids qualify in every other way, they are out, since we aren't Greek.

I'm not looking for scholarship help, that's not the point, I am just concerned for people feeling 'different' in a certain jurisdiction, when it really should be about being Orthodox only.

It brings ethnicity to the forefront.