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Author Topic: Smoking and Drinking  (Read 8569 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ebor
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« Reply #90 on: July 02, 2009, 09:29:34 AM »

"He answered the black earth heals all ills"

Doesn't this strike you as somewhat wrong for a Priest/Bishop to say?


Im still trying to figure it out what he meant by it.....in serbian how he said it,,,,,Црна Земља Лечи Сваки Болест....

The first thing that occurred to me was that it is a reference to being buried after death. 
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« Reply #91 on: July 02, 2009, 09:33:13 AM »

Dear CRCulver

Very good question.

What I meant by "having fun" is the abuse of wine and other spirts to go wild and crazy, and go fighting, car speeding, carnal activities, and other sinful, and dangerous things.

A bit of "gladness to the heart" as we read in the Bible, is one thing, drunkness when the conscience falls asleep and the evil one gets his way, is quite another.

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« Reply #92 on: July 02, 2009, 09:41:26 AM »

"He answered the black earth heals all ills"

Doesn't this strike you as somewhat wrong for a Priest/Bishop to say?


Im still trying to figure it out what he meant by it.....in serbian how he said it,,,,,Црна Земља Лечи Сваки Болест....




The first thing that occurred to me was that it is a reference to being buried after death. 


Could Be that he meant all vices stop after death....All earthly desires cease,, be it for good or ill ,so hence the cure is death ....i think....
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« Reply #93 on: July 02, 2009, 10:27:29 AM »

Quote
while hard liquor and beer doubled the risk.
hmm... so vodka is a bad idea???


The truly bad idea in that image is the fact that you're drinking Vodka with a name like "McCormick" out of a plastic bottle. Since when are the Irish known for their vodka???!!

Dear boy, if you're going to drink vodka, do it right. GreyGoose or Kettle One all the way.

Remember, never drink from the well. Cheap liquor is distilled less than expensive liquor, and your body will pay for it in the morning.

Pay with your wallet, not your body. Drink the good stuff that is distilled more.

It will prevent you from drinking too much, and you'll feel better the next day.

Grey Goose and Ketel One are both very good but pale in comparison to Hangar One IMHO.
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« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2009, 11:34:15 AM »

What I meant by "having fun" is the abuse of wine and other spirts to go wild and crazy, and go fighting, car speeding, carnal activities, and other sinful, and dangerous things.
Then shouldn't we blame the dangerous and sinful things rather than the wine?
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« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2009, 08:05:14 PM »

Dear simplygermain

If you were a true orthodox christian, what I said wouldn't surprise you so much, and you'll consider the strict prohibition of smoking, as something natural, coming from christian piety.

The condemnation of smoking is not observed in the Moscow Patriarchate, World Orthodoxy, and other reformed progressit denominations (with few exceptions). They don't care, as long as you don't do it in the temples.

From the spiritual point of view, smoking is a vice, a bad habit, a desecration of the Temple of the Holy Spirit (the body), a loathsome sybarite action harmful for the body and soul.

   







 
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« Reply #96 on: July 02, 2009, 09:25:18 PM »

Yo Mama!  Shocked

But seriously, are you calling everyone in that category of churches you just mentioned in your post, not True-Orthodox??! or just me...because if you are calling me non-Orthodox, you're half-right...although I was baptized under the canonical jurisdictions, I am only a sinner striving for Orthodox Christianity. I have not attained a perfection of it.
However, if you are calling all my brothers and sisters within said jurisdictions non-Orthodox Heretics, Brother, you just cast the first stone. I hope you're ready for what's next.

A sinner, SimplyGermain
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« Reply #97 on: July 02, 2009, 10:04:11 PM »

A second reply as well, so that you may feel more dignified, Brother IPC...
While I agree with your last statement ( I am aware that vice is sin ) I will continue along my narrow path to our Heavenly Father in fasting, prayer and repentance as He, "the Great Physician" cuts out everything that seperates myself from Him. And I will do this in the time that He has alotted me. But I will not condemn or judge others or myself as forbidden from the Kingdom of Heaven by a bit of tobacco. Nor will I try to mislead them in the teachings of the faith. There is no written Canons regarding this vice we speak of or has there ever been an Anathema passed on them that use it.
If you disagree than show us...Otherwise "Look at the mote in your own Eye."

a sinner, simplygermain +
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« Reply #98 on: July 02, 2009, 10:36:54 PM »

What I meant by "having fun" is the abuse of wine and other spirts to go wild and crazy, and go fighting, car speeding, carnal activities, and other sinful, and dangerous things.

Part of this could be covered under "binge drinking" in my college Health class text book, that is consuming a large quantity of alcoholic beverage with the specific intent of becoming "blott-o".  This is a bad habit to get into.

That is quite different from enjoying a glass of beer or wine or the like.
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« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2009, 11:05:02 PM »

Dear simplygermain,

Correct!, I am refering to the churches I just mentioned as non orthodox, reformed and progressist denominations, and of course, that include all of it's members.

There is the One Church, and different dissenting groups (roman catholics, oriental orthodox, lutherans, moscow patriarchate, world orthodoxy, jehova witnesses, mormons, mosshianic jews, adventists, pentecostals,,,,,,)

It's nothing personal simplygermain, and yes, I'm ready to what's next.

That's very kind of you, but you don't have to be formal with me and call me brother, feeling dignified is something I fear and try to avoid, the more dishounour and disrespect, the better Smiley Honest!

I don't judge you, first of all, I don't know you.

The only thing we have here is words, and I trust you, as I trust all the ones in here who have not given me a reason not to.

It's good to see you're fighting the good fight, and that you know everything good comes from Him, it is Him who saves us, it is Him who heals us, and it it Him who comes and deliver us from the evil one, destroying all what's between Him and us. Greater love than His, there is none.

While you are right in saying there are no canons specifying tobacco, just like there are no canons specifying the consumption of other drugs either by smoking (inhaling), by eating (ingestion), or any other way. But there are canons concerning unrepentant and stubborn sinners.

It is clinically proven that smoking is a way of drug addiction. Just like heroine, and other drugs, smoking tobacco (cigarettes, cigars, pipe..) triggers in the brain the production of the same amounts of flow opioids in the brain, causing among other things, an addiction.

Smoking also is harming the bodies given to us by God, and in some cases, it's a way of suicide, as smoking may lead to death.

Smokers, being drug addicts, and destroyers of the Temple of the Holy Spirit, the body,  have to be treated like any other unrepentant and stubborn sinner, and they should not receive communion, unless they repent and stop it.

There is another reason for this, when people repent and receive communion, that's very good for them, but when an unrepentant sinner comes to receive communion, it will be better if he never did that, he'll bring disgrace for himself, God is not mocked.

Just as the Church can not, in any wise condone and endorse drug addiction, She can not condone and endorse smoking. The Church has an unwavering and firm stand when it comes to sin and vice.

What kind of Mother would leave Her sons do something dangerous and harmful? What kind of love would that be?





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« Reply #100 on: July 03, 2009, 01:03:23 AM »

Sloga, God Bless you...I know you will find the truth as long as you seek it. May have mercy on you and give you wisdom. I think enough has been said on this thread by me. I'm not looking for an arguement.

Please forgive me, a sinner.

 - simplygermain

 
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« Reply #101 on: July 03, 2009, 01:13:47 AM »

Dear simplygermain,

Correct!, I am refering to the churches I just mentioned as non orthodox, reformed and progressist denominations, and of course, that include all of it's members.

There is the One Church, and different dissenting groups (roman catholics, oriental orthodox, lutherans, moscow patriarchate, world orthodoxy, jehova witnesses, mormons, mosshianic jews, adventists, pentecostals,,,,,,)
IPC, we all know by now how you feel regarding those Orthodox in the jurisdictions you call "world Orthodox", since you've already started a few threads explaining how we are not Orthodox.  If you want to continue to tell us how we're not Orthodox, I recommend you do so on one of the threads you've already started with that focus in mind.  Otherwise, you act very unwisely to make this mantra a part of general conversation wherever you post, since you only end up insulting most of your readers and turning us off to what you have to say when you do this.  Need I mention that this derails threads, as well?

If you want to discuss this with me further, please do so via private message.
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« Reply #102 on: July 03, 2009, 08:43:53 PM »

You are right PeterTheAleut, I apologize.
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« Reply #103 on: July 03, 2009, 09:49:01 PM »


Correct!, I am refering to the churches I just mentioned as non orthodox, reformed and progressist denominations, and of course, that include all of it's members.

There is the One Church, and different dissenting groups (roman catholics, oriental orthodox, lutherans, moscow patriarchate, world orthodoxy, jehova witnesses, mormons, mosshianic jews, adventists, pentecostals,,,,,,)anons specifying the consumption of other drugs either by smoking (inhaling), by eating (ingestion), or any other way. But there are canons concerning unrepentant and stubborn sinners.

As a member of the Moscow Patriarchate, one of the groups you mention, I have to say that I find your words harsh, my son.   But may God bless you.   May He shower your life with every spiritual and terrestial blessing.

“For surely I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope.” Jeremiah 29:11

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« Reply #104 on: July 03, 2009, 11:51:00 PM »


Correct!, I am refering to the churches I just mentioned as non orthodox, reformed and progressist denominations, and of course, that include all of it's members.

There is the One Church, and different dissenting groups (roman catholics, oriental orthodox, lutherans, moscow patriarchate, world orthodoxy, jehova witnesses, mormons, mosshianic jews, adventists, pentecostals,,,,,,)anons specifying the consumption of other drugs either by smoking (inhaling), by eating (ingestion), or any other way. But there are canons concerning unrepentant and stubborn sinners.

As a member of the Moscow Patriarchate, one of the groups you mention, I have to say that I find your words harsh, my son.   But may God bless you.   May He shower your life with every spiritual and terrestial blessing.

“For surely I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope.” Jeremiah 29:11

Hieromonk Ambrose
Irish Hermit,

As I have already talked to IPC about this issue, I would rather you not derail this thread by speaking up in defense of any of these "world Orthodox" jurisdictions here on this thread.  It just isn't necessary, especially since you have properly addressed his accusations elsewhere.

If you want to discuss this with me, please do so via private message.
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« Reply #105 on: July 07, 2009, 08:51:31 PM »

ELDER NEKTARIUS OF OPTINA ON SMOKING

The Sin of Smoking

I am continuing my mental battle with the vice of smoking, but it's still completely unsuccessful. I have to quit this filthy and stupid occupation; it is noticeably ruining my health — the gift of God — and that is a sin.

The ever-memorable Elder Ambrose once heard an admission from one of his spiritual daughters:

"Batiushka! I smoke and this is tormenting me!"

"Well," the Elder answered her, "this isn't a great misfortune, if you can quit."

"That's just the problem," she said, "I can't quit!"

"Then it's a sin," said the Elder, "and you've got to repent of it and leave off doing it."

I also have to leave off, but how do I do it? I'm consoled by the words of our Elders, who promised me freedom from this sin "when the time is right."

The late patron of Optina Monastery and spiritual friend of its great Elders, Archbishop Gregory of Kaluga, could not stand this vice among the clergy, but he was condescending towards laymen who smoked, and even towards his seminarians, before they joined the clerical staff. He categorically demanded from candidates who were preparing for ordination that they cease from this filthy habit, and he did not ordain those who smoked.

Our friend Fr. Nektary, to whom I often complained about my weakness, informed me of this. "After all," he consoled me, "you, your honor, are a layman — what's to be expected from you? But here..."

And he related the following to me:

"In the days of Archbishop Gregory, a spirit-bearing and monk-loving man, the following incident happened. A seminarian from Kaluga, who had graduated at the head of his class, and who, because of his exceptional giftedness was personally known to the Archbishop, had to prepare himself for ordination to one of the better positions in the diocese. He appeared before the Archbishop for a blessing and to set a date for the ordination. The hierarch received him with extreme affection, conversed amiably with him and, having shown fatherly kindness towards him, dismissed him, assigning a date for the ordination. However, when dismissing the candidate, he did not fail to ask him, 'Well, then, brother, do you smoke, or not?'

"'No, your Eminence,' replied the candidate, 'I don't go in for that.'

"'Well, good,' the Archbishop exclaimed joyfully, 'see what a fine fellow I've got! Well then, prepare yourself, and may the Lord bless you!'

"According to custom, the candidate bowed to the feet of the Archbishop. His frock coat flew open, and from his breast pocket cigarettes began to fall out onto the floor, one after the other.

"The Archbishop flared up in indignation. 'Who made you lie to me?' he exclaimed with great anger. 'To whom have you lied? When have you lied? When preparing to serve God in holiness and in truth?... Get out of here! There is no position for you, nor will there be one!...'

"And with that he drove the liar out of his sight.... So, your honor," added Fr. Nektary, looking at me with his always laughing, kind and affectionate gaze, "why be dejected that it's not the smell of athonite incense that comes out of your mouth? To whom are you obliged?... And, you know what?" — he exclaimed, and his face lit up with a kind smile. "You won't believe it — I myself barely avoided joining the ranks of smokers. This was back in my childhood, when I still lived at home, together with my mama.... In the whole wide world there were only the two of us, Mama and me, and there was also a cat that lived with us.... We were of a low station, and because of this we were poor: who needed people like us? Well, then, once my mama wasn't keeping an eye on me and I went ahead and borrowed some tobacco from some of my rich peers. They had no shortage of tobacco and they willingly treated everyone who wanted it. They rolled themselves a cigarette, smoked and smoked, and then stuck it in my mouth — 'Here, have a smoke!' Well, following them, I myself began to smoke. The first time I tried it I became dizzy, but I liked it all the same. Cigarette butt after cigarette butt, and I already began to get used to this mischief. I began to beg and then to borrow on credit, hoping somehow to pay it back. But what was I going to pay it back with, when my own mother lived, as they say, from bread to kvass, and there wasn't always plenty of bread.... Then my mama began to notice the smell of tobacco coming from me....

"'What's this, Kolya (my name in the world was Nicholas) — you haven't begun to smoke, have you?'

"'What do you mean, Mommy,' I would say, 'I hardly think so!'

"And I would quickly move aside, as if I were doing something. It went that way once, then another time, and then I got caught. Once I had barely managed to inhale some borrowed tobacco on the sly, when suddenly, there was Mama.

"'Were you just smoking?' she asked.

"Again I said, 'No, Mama.'

"But where did I get 'no' from? I reeked of tobacco from way off. Mama didn't say a word to me then, but she gazed at me with such a sorrowful look that you could say that my whole soul was overturned within me. She went away from me somewhere to do the housework, and I hid in a secluded corner and began to weep inconsolably, that I had grieved Mama. And not only had I grieved her, I had deceived her and lied on top of that. I can't express how painful this was for me! The day passed, night came, and my mind sought for sleep. I lay in my bed and whimpered, lay and whimpered.... Mama heard it.

"'What is it, Kolya — you're not crying, are you?'

"'No, Mama.'

"'Why aren't you sleeping?'

"And with these words, Mama got up, lit the lamp and came over to me. My face was all wet with tears and my pillow was soaked....

"And what happened between us then!... We both had a good cry and were reconciled. Having a good cry with one so dear, how nicely we were reconciled!

"And thus ended my mischief with smoking."
***************************************************
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Smoking is a sin that always comes with other sins, lies are just some of them.
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« Reply #106 on: November 08, 2010, 07:06:20 AM »

I have just quit smoking cigarettes (about 3 weeks ago now) for the millionth time. In the past I have gone cold turkey for months on end. I never want to smoke another cigarette because I am wholly addicted, I can not smoke cigarettes on occasion. I have found in the past that allowing myself an occasional cigar or pipe as a 'treat' helps avoid cigarettes.
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