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Author Topic: "Border of Christendom"??  (Read 4502 times) Average Rating: 0
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mike
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« on: November 07, 2010, 05:51:41 PM »

Split off in response to this post in the "Roman Catholic Churches" thread  -Schultz

Churches at the border of Christendom

You need to refresh your Geography knowledge.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 05:55:49 PM by Schultz » Logged

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ialmisry
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 06:09:19 PM »

Split off in response to this post in the "Roman Catholic Churches" thread  -Schultz

Churches at the border of Christendom

You need to refresh your Geography knowledge.

It seems that synleshka is trying to ansswer my question.

Now when you say Roman Catholic...you do mean Romanian Orthodox, right? Tongue

He ought to: Wołoch in Polish means "Romanian/Vlach," Wołochowie historic "Romania," and Włochy "Italy."  It comes from Germanic Wlaha "foreignors, Romans." The Poles were neighbors to the Romanians, according to the Poles the Dniester forming the boundary set by God between them. The Poles were never anywhere near Rome or Italy.

What does this have to do with the Orthodox, except that the OP shows pictures from Kholm, the historic center of Orthodoxy in Poland, that is before the Union of Brest was forced on it, and after that yoke was lifted? St. Vladimir founded it, and it was part of Kievan Rus', but later annexed by the Piasts who set up a Latin bishoprick.  The Orthodox Cathedral was given by the "The Polish Committee of National Liberation" to the Vatican in 1944.

Just it's funny that someone cuts and pastes from Kronika Novus Ordo, the Polish Novus Ordo Watch.

This is a Roman Catholic Church in Michał Kalina's hometown built between 1991 and 1996.

Churches at the border of Christendom
The cathedral in Kamieniec Podolski, Kamyanets Podolshkyy Ukraine



Please, remember that the church was built by Martians who lived in Ukraine for hundreds of years.

Czortków, Podole now Chortkiv, Ukraine

In the thread former Roman Catholic churches, stolen by Orthodox

On Polish web sites, it is called the Jesuit church while on Ukrainian sites it is called a monastery of the Orthodox church.

One of the hundreds of Roman Catholic monasteries "canceled" (kasowane) by the Tsars.
The monastery of st,Catherine of Alexandria

"Please, remember that the church was built by Martians who lived in Ukraine for hundreds of years."

Oh, we remember.  That's why we are ever vigilant about the Vatican trying to come in for a visit.

They were aliens, that's why they are mostly gone now, no matter how long they occupied the place.

"One of the hundreds of Roman Catholic monasteries "canceled" (kasowane) by the Tsars."

Was that when the Orthodox recovered the hundreds of monasteries that the Polish King stole on behalf of the Vatican?

"On Polish web sites, it is called the Jesuit church while on Ukrainian sites it is called a monastery of the Orthodox church."

The Ukrainian would be right: the Vatican suppressed the Jesuits, and they had to flee to the protection of the Orthodox, remember?
Quote
The sound principles of Catholicism, however, were maintained and propagated by the Jesuits who, suppressed by the Holy See and exiled from the Catholic nations, found an asylum and the centre of their future revival in Russia. In 1779 Catharine II invited the Jesuits to exercise their ministry in White Russia, and in 1786 they had in Russia six colleges and 178 members. Their number increased so much that Pius VII re-established their order for Russia, where it returned to life under Father Gruber. In 1801 the society had 262 members, and 347 in 1811. The Jesuits retained a lively gratitude for the hospitality that they had received in Russia, and worked with zeal to convert it to Catholicism.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13253a.htm

Only jesuitry can twist ingratitude into lively gratitude.

In the thread former Roman Catholic churches, stolen by Orthodox

That looks like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._George%27s_Cathedral,_Lviv
Quote
A church has stood on St. George Hill (Ukrainian: Святоюрська гора, translit. sviatoyurs'ka hora) since around 1280, dating back to a time when the area was still part of the Principality of Halych-Volhynia. After the original wooden church and the fortress it was situated in were destroyed by King Casimir III of Poland in 1340, a four-column Byzantine basilica was constructed for the local Eastern Orthodox Church.
But how did it come into the hands of the Vatican?
Quote
The UGCC reemerged in 1989, when it was recognized by the Soviet authorities in the midst of Perestroika[5], and began to reclaim parishes which they had ceded 45 years earlier. On August 12, 1990, members of the nationalistic People's Movement of Ukraine party occupied and commandeered the cathedral
Aren't they connected with Stepan Bandera, the Hero of Ukraine that you expressed misgivings about?
Quote
In August 2005, the seat of the Major Archbishop of the UGCC was moved to Kiev, the nation's capital, changing from The Major Archbishop of Lviv to The Major Archbishop of Kiev-Halych.

Like I said, we remember.

Quote
Edit: fixed img tags, nothing more -Schultz.
fixed the misinformation, nothing more-Isa
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 06:41:09 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth
synLeszka
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2010, 02:32:06 PM »

W imię Boże!


I think that you guys seem to forget that Poland bordered with Turkey and the Crimean Tatar Hanat in the 1600's!




Perhaps I seem to forget that the Sultan was not the enemy of Christianity, no I must be mistaken..




I am a proud Sarmatian!





Na pochybeł inszym nacjom!
 synLezska, you have been warned previously for writing things in a language other than English w/o translation outside the designated foreign language fora.  to add to this offense is the actual translation of "Na pochybeł inszym nacjom!" : "Hang the other people!".  Such a call to violence is anti-thetical to the Christian life and should be beneath you.  Therefore, you are hereby given a green dot Warning status for 30 days.  If you feel this is in error, please PM Fr. George or FrChris.  -Schultz, Orthodox-Catholic Discussion moderator

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synLeszka
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« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2010, 02:34:15 PM »

W imię Boże!
In the name of God!


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ialmisry
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« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2010, 03:44:49 PM »

W imię Boże!
In the name of God!
во имя Отца и Сына и Святаго Духа!
Quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Neva
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_Lake_Peipus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Nevsky_Cathedral,_Warsaw
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 04:00:51 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
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Posts: 37,679



« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 05:04:14 PM »

W imię Boże!
во имя Отца и Сына и Святаго Духа!
Quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Order_of_St._Alexander_Nevsky
Quote
I think that you guys seem to forget that Poland bordered with Turkey and the Crimean Tatar Hanat in the 1600's!
No, we remember that Warsaw only came in contact with the Ottomans and Tartars by trampling on the Orthodox of Ukraine, Russia and Romania.  As St. Stefan the Great of Moldova, named "True Champion of the Christian Faith" (verus christianae fidei athleta) by the Vatican, lamented, while he faced the Muslims in battle we was constantly being stabbed in the back by our "Chrisitan brothers."  With brothers like that, who needs enemies?
Quote



In 1600 the King of Sweden (the same power St. Grand Prince Alexander Nevsky beat) was the King of Poland, so we can say Sweden bordered "Turkey and the Crimean Tatar Hanat."  After him came Władysław IV Vasa, who claimed the title "Grand Duke of Moscow" (Tsar Michael Romanov actually reigned and ruled), so we can be truthful and say Russia wanna be bordered "Turkey and the Crimean Tartar Hanat." After him in 1648 the Cossaks threw out the alien Poles and the Russians kept them out, far from "Turkey and the Crimena Tatar Hanat."
Quote
Perhaps I seem to forget that the Sultan was not the enemy of Christianity, no I must be mistaken...
Yes, you are mistaken, as St. Grand Prince Alexander Nevsky and others demonstrated.
Quote
I am a proud Sarmatian!
So you are an Iranian, and not a Slav?
«I admit, that I too was concerned about the cause of Union and that it would be imprudent to abandon it; but it had never occurred to me that your Eminence would implement it using such violent measures... You say that you are "free to drown the infidels (i.e. those who have not accepted the Unia), to chop their heads off"; etc. Not so! The Lord's commandment expresses a strict prohibition to all, which concerns you also. When you violated human conscience, closed Churches so that people would perish like infidels without divine service, without Christian rites and sacraments; when you abused King's favors and privileges -- you managed without us; but when there is a need to suppress seditions caused by your excesses you want us to cover up for you... As to the dangers that threaten your life, one may say that everyone is the cause of one's own misfortune. Stop making trouble, do not subject us to the general hatred of the people and yourself to obvious danger and general criticism... Everywhere one hears people grumbling that you do not have any worthy priests, but only blind ones... Your ignorant priests are the bane of the people... But tell me, your Eminence, whom did you win over, whom did you attract with your severity... It will turn out that in Polotsk itself you have lost even those who until now were obedient to you. You have turned sheep into goats, you plunged the state into danger, and maybe all of us Catholics -- into ruin... It has been rumored that they (the Orthodox) would rather be under the infidel Turks than endure such violence... you yourself are the cause of their rebellion. Instead of joy, your notorious Union brought us only troubles and discords and has become so loathsome that we would rather be without it!"-Chancellor Lev Sapega of Poland-Lithuania, dated March 12, 1622

Quote
Na pochybeł inszym nacjom!
Whatever.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 05:12:35 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
synLeszka
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« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 09:42:36 AM »

Na pohybel innym nacjom
I said nothing about hanging anyone.
Pohybel by its self is the gibbet. In a phrase, na pohybel it means to the gallows with them.
The phrase which got me into trouble was "to the gallows with all the other nations" na pohybel to the gallows, inszym other, nacjom nations
Quote
The phrase is idiomatic not literal. Yes, na pohybel according to the dictionary of the Polish language is:
pohybel
"daw."
a) zguba, zatracenie; zwykle w wyrażeniu: na pohybel
b) szubienica
<ukr.>

Pohybel
(archaic)
a. perdition; usually in the phrase: na pohybel
b. gibbet or gallows
<ukrainian>

Anyways, I wonder who told on me...
 synLeszka, you are hereby placed on a 15-day Post Moderation for arguing with a moderation decision in the public forum which is against forum policy.  For the next 15 days, your posts will be subject to perusal and approval by the moderation staff and will not appear until such approval is granted.  If you feel this is in error, please PM Fr. George or FrChris.  -Schultz, Orthodox-Catholic Discussion moderator.

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synLeszka
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« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 11:17:06 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4K6ZxDwi34
I want

I want you to trust me
I want you to believe me
I want to feel your eyes
I want to control every heartbeat

I want to hear your voices
I want to disturb the peace
I want you to see me well
I want you to understand me

I want your fantasy
I want your energy
I want to see your hands
I want to go down in applause

Do you see me?
Do you understand me?
Do you feel me?
Do you hear me?
Can you hear me?
We hear you
Can you see me?
We see you
Can you feel me?
We feel you
I don't understand you

[ From: http://www.metrolyrics.com/ich-will-english-translation-lyrics-rammstein.html ]
ICH WILL - RAMMSTEIN

I want

We want you to trust us
We want you to believe everything from us

We want to see your hands
We want to go down in applause - yeah

Can you hear me?
We hear you
Can you see me?
We see you
Can you feel me?
We feel you
I don't understand you

Can you hear us?
We hear you
Can you see us?
We see you
Can you feel us?
We feel you
We don't understand you

I want
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ialmisry
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Warned
Hypatos
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Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
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« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 11:23:29 AM »

Na pohybel innym nacjom
I said nothing about hanging anyone.
Pohybel by its self is the gibbet. In a phrase, na pohybel it means to the gallows with them.
The phrase which got me into trouble was "to the gallows with all the other nations" na pohybel to the gallows, inszym other, nacjom nations
Quote
The phrase is idiomatic not literal. Yes, na pohybel according to the dictionary of the Polish language is:
pohybel
"daw."
a) zguba, zatracenie; zwykle w wyrażeniu: na pohybel
b) szubienica
<ukr.>

Pohybel
(archaic)
a. perdition; usually in the phrase: na pohybel
b. gibbet or gallows
<ukrainian>

Anyways, I wonder who told on me...
If it was a secret, don't post it publically.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
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Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,679



« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 11:24:30 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4K6ZxDwi34
I want

I want you to trust me
I want you to believe me
I want to feel your eyes
I want to control every heartbeat

I want to hear your voices
I want to disturb the peace
I want you to see me well
I want you to understand me

I want your fantasy
I want your energy
I want to see your hands
I want to go down in applause

Do you see me?
Do you understand me?
Do you feel me?
Do you hear me?
Can you hear me?
We hear you
Can you see me?
We see you
Can you feel me?
We feel you
I don't understand you

[ From: http://www.metrolyrics.com/ich-will-english-translation-lyrics-rammstein.html ]
ICH WILL - RAMMSTEIN

I want

We want you to trust us
We want you to believe everything from us

We want to see your hands
We want to go down in applause - yeah

Can you hear me?
We hear you
Can you see me?
We see you
Can you feel me?
We feel you
I don't understand you

Can you hear us?
We hear you
Can you see us?
We see you
Can you feel us?
We feel you
We don't understand you

I want

Are these your entries in the contest for a new national anthem for the Vatican?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
synLeszka
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 11:46:42 AM »

The Vatican's national anthem is Wink according to the libertarians we Catholics are Communists because we accept social justice as part of our doctrine, so I expect this to be the future anthem of the Vatican  Grin
Stand up, damned of the Earth
Stand up, prisoners of hunger
Reason thunders in its volcano
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us make a clean slate
Enslaved masses, stand up, stand up
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
 |: This is the final struggle
  Let us group together, and tomorrow
  The Internationale
  Will be human race :|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KymgJPVQphk

Come on everyone knows the tune of this!
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ialmisry
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Hypatos
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 03:34:15 PM »

The Vatican's national anthem is Wink according to the libertarians we Catholics are Communists because we accept social justice as part of our doctrine, so I expect this to be the future anthem of the Vatican  Grin
Stand up, damned of the Earth
Stand up, prisoners of hunger
Reason thunders in its volcano
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us make a clean slate
Enslaved masses, stand up, stand up
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
 |: This is the final struggle
  Let us group together, and tomorrow
  The Internationale
  Will be human race :|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KymgJPVQphk

Come on everyone knows the tune of this!
No, but you seem to be able to hum a few bars.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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