Topic: Are the RCC and EOC really close to reunification?

[Papist]

Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

  None.  So I agree with you fully.

If that were true, you would be under the omophorion of a bishop in the Orthodox diptychs of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Since you are not, that cannot be true.

  In fact the worst of the heresies that we were required to struggle with over the centuries came to us full blown from the east.

Ultramontanism came like a blow hard hurricane strength, with swords, from the West. As for those which came from the East, like Arianism, we didn't have to struggle with them for centuries (Arianism was dead in the East in 381, killed by St. Athanasius, who came from the East, and the Fathers who wrote the Creed, nearly exclusively a project of the East) as they died out within a century (Nestorianism being a rare exception, and it had to go far East to survive), whereas they found fertile ground to florish in the West (living on in the far West of Spain, homeland of the filioque, another heresy).

Christianity came from the East, founded in Jerusalem, not Rome, revealed in Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.

Yawn

[ialmisry]

Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

  None.  So I agree with you fully.

If that were true, you would be under the omophorion of a bishop in the Orthodox diptychs of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Since you are not, that cannot be true.

  In fact the worst of the heresies that we were required to struggle with over the centuries came to us full blown from the east.

Ultramontanism came like a blow hard hurricane strength, with swords, from the West. As for those which came from the East, like Arianism, we didn't have to struggle with them for centuries (Arianism was dead in the East in 381, killed by St. Athanasius, who came from the East, and the Fathers who wrote the Creed, nearly exclusively a project of the East) as they died out within a century (Nestorianism being a rare exception, and it had to go far East to survive), whereas they found fertile ground to florish in the West (living on in the far West of Spain, homeland of the filioque, another heresy).

Christianity came from the East, founded in Jerusalem, not Rome, revealed in Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.

Yawn

You need your sleep again.

[Papist]

Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

  None.  So I agree with you fully.

If that were true, you would be under the omophorion of a bishop in the Orthodox diptychs of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Since you are not, that cannot be true.

  In fact the worst of the heresies that we were required to struggle with over the centuries came to us full blown from the east.

Ultramontanism came like a blow hard hurricane strength, with swords, from the West. As for those which came from the East, like Arianism, we didn't have to struggle with them for centuries (Arianism was dead in the East in 381, killed by St. Athanasius, who came from the East, and the Fathers who wrote the Creed, nearly exclusively a project of the East) as they died out within a century (Nestorianism being a rare exception, and it had to go far East to survive), whereas they found fertile ground to florish in the West (living on in the far West of Spain, homeland of the filioque, another heresy).

Christianity came from the East, founded in Jerusalem, not Rome, revealed in Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.

Yawn

You need your sleep again.

Once again you are putting me to sleep.

[elijahmaria]

Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

What are you going to do when Orthodoxy resumes communion with the Catholic Church and not much at all changes for either confession?

Where will you go then?

[ialmisry]

Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

  None.  So I agree with you fully.

If that were true, you would be under the omophorion of a bishop in the Orthodox diptychs of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Since you are not, that cannot be true.

  In fact the worst of the heresies that we were required to struggle with over the centuries came to us full blown from the east.

Ultramontanism came like a blow hard hurricane strength, with swords, from the West. As for those which came from the East, like Arianism, we didn't have to struggle with them for centuries (Arianism was dead in the East in 381, killed by St. Athanasius, who came from the East, and the Fathers who wrote the Creed, nearly exclusively a project of the East) as they died out within a century (Nestorianism being a rare exception, and it had to go far East to survive), whereas they found fertile ground to florish in the West (living on in the far West of Spain, homeland of the filioque, another heresy).

Christianity came from the East, founded in Jerusalem, not Rome, revealed in Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.

Yawn

You need your sleep again.

Once again you are putting me to sleep.

Since you were dreaming, it was only appropriate.

[ialmisry]

Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

Who is the Orthodox bishop of that Church under whose omophorion you are?

What are you going to do when Orthodoxy resumes communion with the Catholic Church

Orthodoxy is the communion of the Catholic Church, hence your question

and not much at all changes for either confession?

lacks both sense and reality.

Where will you go then?

I won't be the one going over to heresy. Nach Canossa gehen wir nicht.

[Papist]

Who is the Orthodox bishop of that Church under whose omophorion you are?

Archbishop Michael J. Sheehan of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe (The Holy Faith).

[elijahmaria]

I won't be the one going over to heresy. Nach Canossa gehen wir nicht.

You sure would if you were to reject any resumption of communion based upon your arrogation of the right to declare personally what is and what is not "the faith."

M

[LizaSymonenko]

One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

What are you going to do when Orthodoxy resumes communion with the Catholic Church and not much at all changes for either confession?

Where will you go then?

This would only happen when the Roman Catholic Church realizes it's errors, and decides to completely adhere to and join the Orthodox Faith and her dogmas and canons and Tradition and....   

When that happens it will be a moot point where ialmisry will go.  He will remain in the True Church of Christ which will never change and will always remain the One Catholic and Apostolic Church aka Orthodox.

[ialmisry]

Who is the Orthodox bishop of that Church under whose omophorion you are?

Archbishop Michael J. Sheehan of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe (The Holy Faith).

Struck from the Orthoodx diptychs for heresy in 1009-1014.

I'd going into his "pro-choice" ennabling, but that would be politics.

[ialmisry]

I won't be the one going over to heresy. Nach Canossa gehen wir nicht.

You sure would if you were to reject any resumption of communion based upon your arrogation of the right to declare personally what is and what is not "the faith."

When that happens, I'll worry about it. In the meantime, I'm not the one arrogating the right to declare personlly what is and what is not "the Faith."

[Iconodule]

Ah, another productive and insight-laden Orthodox-Catholic thread.

[Papist]

Ah, another productive and insight-laden Orthodox-Catholic thread.

[WetCatechumen]

Who is the Orthodox bishop of that Church under whose omophorion you are?

Archbishop Michael J. Sheehan of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe (The Holy Faith).

May God grant him many years . . .



Of retirement as soon as possible.

[deusveritasest]

I have heard a lot of talk about such things during my time on this forum, but I personally have not seen nor heard anything which really makes me think it is so. I am interested, however, what everyone else thinks concerning this topic and why they think as they do.

It is possible that a minority of highly ecumenist individuals may reunite with Rome as had happened at Florence, but with respect to the EO communion overall, reunification is very far off.

[deusveritasest]

To me, on the various religious forums I've perused, it generally seems as if the Catholics are more optimistic about the "closeness" of a reunification than the Orthodox are, who seem more cautious.

Indeed. This is very true.

[Papist]

To me, on the various religious forums I've perused, it generally seems as if the Catholics are more optimistic about the "closeness" of a reunification than the Orthodox are, who seem more cautious.

Indeed. This is very true.

I think that part of this may be due to the fact that most Catholics are not all that well aquianted with the issues that separate us from EOs or from OOs.

[deusveritasest]

What about the lifting of the excommunications in 1964 by the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople? 

That was quite a mistake.

[deusveritasest]

We have a Vatican document that says that we are both wounded by schism,

*facepalm*

[deusveritasest]

What about the lifting of the excommunications in 1964 by the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople? 

Symbolic.  It has been too long that we've been out of communion to simply turn things around that fast.  The dialogue must occur.

Ironic that you use that language, as what those anathemas had come to symbolize has not changed.

[deusveritasest]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

[Papist]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

[deusveritasest]

Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

What are you going to do when Orthodoxy resumes communion with the Catholic Church and not much at all changes for either confession?

Where will you go then?

There will be, without a doubt, groups formed rejecting the reunion, which he would most likely join, as they would the the logical conclusion of the remnant of the Catholic Church.

[deusveritasest]

Ah, another productive and insight-laden Orthodox-Catholic thread.

 

[deusveritasest]

To me, on the various religious forums I've perused, it generally seems as if the Catholics are more optimistic about the "closeness" of a reunification than the Orthodox are, who seem more cautious.

Indeed. This is very true.

I think that part of this may be due to the fact that most Catholics are not all that well aquianted with the issues that separate us from EOs or from OOs.

Sure.

[Papist]

To me, on the various religious forums I've perused, it generally seems as if the Catholics are more optimistic about the "closeness" of a reunification than the Orthodox are, who seem more cautious.

Indeed. This is very true.

I think that part of this may be due to the fact that most Catholics are not all that well aquianted with the issues that separate us from EOs or from OOs.

Sure.

Surely

[deusveritasest]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

Indeed it is.

[Papist]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

Indeed it is.

BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue. 

[deusveritasest]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

Indeed it is.

BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue. 

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

[Aindriú]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

Indeed it is.

BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue. 

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

[deusveritasest]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

Indeed it is.

BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue. 

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

[Aindriú]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

Indeed it is.

BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue. 

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

No one asked you to accept their sacraments. You're only asked to be respectful.

[Papist]

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

You can speak the truth in love, though.

[Aindriú]

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

You can speak the truth in love, though.

Is that wrong? 

[Papist]

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

You can speak the truth in love, though.

Is that wrong? 

awww. For some reason the computer I am on won't let me see the pic.

[Aindriú]

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

You can speak the truth in love, though.

Is that wrong? 

awww. For some reason the computer I am on won't let me see the pic.

Darn...

(It's the Pope and some bishops doing the robot)

[Papist]

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

You can speak the truth in love, though.

Is that wrong? 

awww. For some reason the computer I am on won't let me see the pic.

Darn...

(It's the Pope and some bishops doing the robot)

Awesome!!! I'll see em when I get home tonight.

[deusveritasest]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

Indeed it is.

BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue. 

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

No one asked you to accept their sacraments. You're only asked to be respectful.

Referring to a priest as Father in a totally unqualified manner seems to give the illusion that I recognize them as having Holy Orders. So I have chosen to not do so in a totally unqualified manner.

[deusveritasest]

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

You can speak the truth in love, though.

Precisely what I am aiming for. What of what I have said is unloving?

[Papist]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

Indeed it is.

BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue. 

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

No one asked you to accept their sacraments. You're only asked to be respectful.

Referring to a priest as Father in a totally unqualified manner seems to give the illusion that I recognize them as having Holy Orders. So I have chosen to not do so in a totally unqualified manner.

I used to be aquinted with an Anglican Priest. I call him Father, out of respect, but he knew fully well that my Communion did not recognize Anglican orders.

[Papist]

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

You can speak the truth in love, though.

Precisely what I am aiming for. What of what I have said is unloving?

There is a difference between wanting to be "right", and wanting to be truely Orthodox. The difference is in attitude and approach.

[dcommini]

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are. 

It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is. 

Indeed it is.

BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue. 

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

No one asked you to accept their sacraments. You're only asked to be respectful.

Referring to a priest as Father in a totally unqualified manner seems to give the illusion that I recognize them as having Holy Orders. So I have chosen to not do so in a totally unqualified manner.

I used to be aquinted with an Anglican Priest. I call him Father, out of respect, but he knew fully well that my Communion did not recognize Anglican orders.

Like wise I would still call an RC priest Father (or even an OO priest) because that is the title they hold within their organization...

[Ortho_cat]

I think this pretty much sums up the EO - RC reunification efforts:

[Wyatt]

I'm actually one of the few RCs that wholeheartedly agrees with that statement, which is odd because most in my Church are more optimistic than that.