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Author Topic: Are the RCC and EOC really close to reunification?  (Read 5205 times) Average Rating: 0
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Papist
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« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2010, 08:42:19 PM »


Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

Quote
  None.  So I agree with you fully.

If that were true, you would be under the omophorion of a bishop in the Orthodox diptychs of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Since you are not, that cannot be true.

Quote
  In fact the worst of the heresies that we were required to struggle with over the centuries came to us full blown from the east.
Ultramontanism came like a blow hard hurricane strength, with swords, from the West. As for those which came from the East, like Arianism, we didn't have to struggle with them for centuries (Arianism was dead in the East in 381, killed by St. Athanasius, who came from the East, and the Fathers who wrote the Creed, nearly exclusively a project of the East) as they died out within a century (Nestorianism being a rare exception, and it had to go far East to survive), whereas they found fertile ground to florish in the West (living on in the far West of Spain, homeland of the filioque, another heresy).

Christianity came from the East, founded in Jerusalem, not Rome, revealed in Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.
Yawn
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« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2010, 08:43:08 PM »


Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

Quote
  None.  So I agree with you fully.

If that were true, you would be under the omophorion of a bishop in the Orthodox diptychs of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Since you are not, that cannot be true.

Quote
  In fact the worst of the heresies that we were required to struggle with over the centuries came to us full blown from the east.
Ultramontanism came like a blow hard hurricane strength, with swords, from the West. As for those which came from the East, like Arianism, we didn't have to struggle with them for centuries (Arianism was dead in the East in 381, killed by St. Athanasius, who came from the East, and the Fathers who wrote the Creed, nearly exclusively a project of the East) as they died out within a century (Nestorianism being a rare exception, and it had to go far East to survive), whereas they found fertile ground to florish in the West (living on in the far West of Spain, homeland of the filioque, another heresy).

Christianity came from the East, founded in Jerusalem, not Rome, revealed in Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.
Yawn
You need your sleep again.
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« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2010, 08:43:45 PM »


Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

Quote
  None.  So I agree with you fully.

If that were true, you would be under the omophorion of a bishop in the Orthodox diptychs of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Since you are not, that cannot be true.

Quote
  In fact the worst of the heresies that we were required to struggle with over the centuries came to us full blown from the east.
Ultramontanism came like a blow hard hurricane strength, with swords, from the West. As for those which came from the East, like Arianism, we didn't have to struggle with them for centuries (Arianism was dead in the East in 381, killed by St. Athanasius, who came from the East, and the Fathers who wrote the Creed, nearly exclusively a project of the East) as they died out within a century (Nestorianism being a rare exception, and it had to go far East to survive), whereas they found fertile ground to florish in the West (living on in the far West of Spain, homeland of the filioque, another heresy).

Christianity came from the East, founded in Jerusalem, not Rome, revealed in Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.
Yawn
You need your sleep again.
Once again you are putting me to sleep.
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« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2010, 08:57:40 PM »


Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?


One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

What are you going to do when Orthodoxy resumes communion with the Catholic Church and not much at all changes for either confession?

Where will you go then?

« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 08:58:58 PM by elijahmaria » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2010, 09:02:07 PM »


Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?

Quote
  None.  So I agree with you fully.

If that were true, you would be under the omophorion of a bishop in the Orthodox diptychs of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Since you are not, that cannot be true.

Quote
  In fact the worst of the heresies that we were required to struggle with over the centuries came to us full blown from the east.
Ultramontanism came like a blow hard hurricane strength, with swords, from the West. As for those which came from the East, like Arianism, we didn't have to struggle with them for centuries (Arianism was dead in the East in 381, killed by St. Athanasius, who came from the East, and the Fathers who wrote the Creed, nearly exclusively a project of the East) as they died out within a century (Nestorianism being a rare exception, and it had to go far East to survive), whereas they found fertile ground to florish in the West (living on in the far West of Spain, homeland of the filioque, another heresy).

Christianity came from the East, founded in Jerusalem, not Rome, revealed in Greek and Aramaic, not Latin.
Yawn
You need your sleep again.
Once again you are putting me to sleep.
Since you were dreaming, it was only appropriate.
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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
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« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2010, 09:07:56 PM »


Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?


One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

Who is the Orthodox bishop of that Church under whose omophorion you are?

Quote
What are you going to do when Orthodoxy resumes communion with the Catholic Church


Orthodoxy is the communion of the Catholic Church, hence your question

Quote
and not much at all changes for either confession?

lacks both sense and reality.

Quote
Where will you go then?
I won't be the one going over to heresy. Nach Canossa gehen wir nicht.
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2010, 09:11:29 PM »



Who is the Orthodox bishop of that Church under whose omophorion you are?


Archbishop Michael J. Sheehan of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe (The Holy Faith).
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« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2010, 09:36:11 PM »

I won't be the one going over to heresy. Nach Canossa gehen wir nicht.

You sure would if you were to reject any resumption of communion based upon your arrogation of the right to declare personally what is and what is not "the faith."

M
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« Reply #53 on: November 08, 2010, 09:59:30 PM »


One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

What are you going to do when Orthodoxy resumes communion with the Catholic Church and not much at all changes for either confession?

Where will you go then?



This would only happen when the Roman Catholic Church realizes it's errors, and decides to completely adhere to and join the Orthodox Faith and her dogmas and canons and Tradition and....   Wink

When that happens it will be a moot point where ialmisry will go.  He will remain in the True Church of Christ which will never change and will always remain the One Catholic and Apostolic Church aka Orthodox.

Wink
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« Reply #54 on: November 08, 2010, 10:02:04 PM »



Who is the Orthodox bishop of that Church under whose omophorion you are?


Archbishop Michael J. Sheehan of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe (The Holy Faith).
Struck from the Orthoodx diptychs for heresy in 1009-1014.

I'd going into his "pro-choice" ennabling, but that would be politics.
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #55 on: November 08, 2010, 10:04:39 PM »

I won't be the one going over to heresy. Nach Canossa gehen wir nicht.

You sure would if you were to reject any resumption of communion based upon your arrogation of the right to declare personally what is and what is not "the faith."

When that happens, I'll worry about it. In the meantime, I'm not the one arrogating the right to declare personlly what is and what is not "the Faith."
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #56 on: November 08, 2010, 10:05:01 PM »

Ah, another productive and insight-laden Orthodox-Catholic thread.
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« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2010, 10:14:25 PM »

Ah, another productive and insight-laden Orthodox-Catholic thread.
Cheesy
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« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2010, 12:11:24 AM »



Who is the Orthodox bishop of that Church under whose omophorion you are?


Archbishop Michael J. Sheehan of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe (The Holy Faith).

May God grant him many years . . .



Of retirement as soon as possible.
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« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2010, 04:40:31 PM »

I have heard a lot of talk about such things during my time on this forum, but I personally have not seen nor heard anything which really makes me think it is so. I am interested, however, what everyone else thinks concerning this topic and why they think as they do.

It is possible that a minority of highly ecumenist individuals may reunite with Rome as had happened at Florence, but with respect to the EO communion overall, reunification is very far off.
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« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2010, 04:41:23 PM »

To me, on the various religious forums I've perused, it generally seems as if the Catholics are more optimistic about the "closeness" of a reunification than the Orthodox are, who seem more cautious.

Indeed. This is very true.
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« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2010, 04:43:43 PM »

To me, on the various religious forums I've perused, it generally seems as if the Catholics are more optimistic about the "closeness" of a reunification than the Orthodox are, who seem more cautious.

Indeed. This is very true.
I think that part of this may be due to the fact that most Catholics are not all that well aquianted with the issues that separate us from EOs or from OOs.
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« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2010, 04:46:43 PM »

What about the lifting of the excommunications in 1964 by the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople? 

That was quite a mistake.
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« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2010, 04:48:22 PM »

We have a Vatican document that says that we are both wounded by schism,

*facepalm*
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« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2010, 04:49:15 PM »

What about the lifting of the excommunications in 1964 by the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople? 

Symbolic.  It has been too long that we've been out of communion to simply turn things around that fast.  The dialogue must occur.

Ironic that you use that language, as what those anathemas had come to symbolize has not changed.
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« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2010, 04:53:12 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
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« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2010, 04:54:45 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy
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« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2010, 04:56:10 PM »


Of course you haven't divided the Body. No heresy ever has.

Dear Brother Catholic,

There are no heresies taught by my Church.

Which ecclesiastical organization would that be?


One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

What are you going to do when Orthodoxy resumes communion with the Catholic Church and not much at all changes for either confession?

Where will you go then?



There will be, without a doubt, groups formed rejecting the reunion, which he would most likely join, as they would the the logical conclusion of the remnant of the Catholic Church.
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« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2010, 04:57:58 PM »

Ah, another productive and insight-laden Orthodox-Catholic thread.

 laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2010, 04:58:43 PM »

To me, on the various religious forums I've perused, it generally seems as if the Catholics are more optimistic about the "closeness" of a reunification than the Orthodox are, who seem more cautious.

Indeed. This is very true.
I think that part of this may be due to the fact that most Catholics are not all that well aquianted with the issues that separate us from EOs or from OOs.

Sure.
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« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2010, 04:59:26 PM »

To me, on the various religious forums I've perused, it generally seems as if the Catholics are more optimistic about the "closeness" of a reunification than the Orthodox are, who seem more cautious.

Indeed. This is very true.
I think that part of this may be due to the fact that most Catholics are not all that well aquianted with the issues that separate us from EOs or from OOs.

Sure.
Surely
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« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2010, 04:59:36 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy

Indeed it is.
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« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2010, 05:00:39 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy

Indeed it is.
BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue.  Grin
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« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2010, 05:03:30 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy

Indeed it is.
BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue.  Grin

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.
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« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2010, 05:20:39 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy

Indeed it is.
BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue.  Grin

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.
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« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2010, 05:24:50 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy

Indeed it is.
BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue.  Grin

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.
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« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2010, 05:26:53 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy

Indeed it is.
BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue.  Grin

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

No one asked you to accept their sacraments. You're only asked to be respectful.
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« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2010, 05:34:01 PM »

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.
You can speak the truth in love, though.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 05:34:11 PM by Papist » Logged

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« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2010, 05:38:01 PM »

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.
You can speak the truth in love, though.



Is that wrong?  Cheesy
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« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2010, 05:39:35 PM »

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.
You can speak the truth in love, though.



Is that wrong?  Cheesy
awww. For some reason the computer I am on won't let me see the pic. Sad
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« Reply #80 on: December 07, 2010, 05:43:08 PM »

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.
You can speak the truth in love, though.



Is that wrong?  Cheesy
awww. For some reason the computer I am on won't let me see the pic. Sad
Darn...

(It's the Pope and some bishops doing the robot)
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« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2010, 05:45:05 PM »

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.
You can speak the truth in love, though.



Is that wrong?  Cheesy
awww. For some reason the computer I am on won't let me see the pic. Sad
Darn...

(It's the Pope and some bishops doing the robot)
Awesome!!! I'll see em when I get home tonight.
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deusveritasest
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« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2010, 05:57:32 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy

Indeed it is.
BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue.  Grin

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

No one asked you to accept their sacraments. You're only asked to be respectful.

Referring to a priest as Father in a totally unqualified manner seems to give the illusion that I recognize them as having Holy Orders. So I have chosen to not do so in a totally unqualified manner.
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« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2010, 05:58:30 PM »

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.
You can speak the truth in love, though.

Precisely what I am aiming for. What of what I have said is unloving?
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« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2010, 05:58:57 PM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy

Indeed it is.
BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue.  Grin

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

No one asked you to accept their sacraments. You're only asked to be respectful.

Referring to a priest as Father in a totally unqualified manner seems to give the illusion that I recognize them as having Holy Orders. So I have chosen to not do so in a totally unqualified manner.
I used to be aquinted with an Anglican Priest. I call him Father, out of respect, but he knew fully well that my Communion did not recognize Anglican orders.
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« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2010, 05:59:27 PM »

I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.
You can speak the truth in love, though.

Precisely what I am aiming for. What of what I have said is unloving?
There is a difference between wanting to be "right", and wanting to be truely Orthodox. The difference is in attitude and approach.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 06:00:07 PM by Papist » Logged

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« Reply #86 on: December 11, 2010, 02:29:32 AM »

/\  Most of the things quoted are things which were said by Oriental Orthodox bishops

Ugh. Thanks for reminding me how insufferably ecumenist our hierarchs are.  Sad
It's rough being more Orthodox than the Pope... Shenouda that is.  Cheesy

Indeed it is.
BTW, you signature is a fantastic foundation for dialogue.  Grin

I put it because I would rather not use these honorifics but the mods practically force me to do so, and as such I must indicate that doing so has not changed my views about heterodox Sacraments.

So you care more about "being right", than you do about mutual respect.

Gotcha.

They're not mutually exclusive realities. I cannot give ultimate respect to a person while avoiding speaking the truth to them.

No one asked you to accept their sacraments. You're only asked to be respectful.

Referring to a priest as Father in a totally unqualified manner seems to give the illusion that I recognize them as having Holy Orders. So I have chosen to not do so in a totally unqualified manner.
I used to be aquinted with an Anglican Priest. I call him Father, out of respect, but he knew fully well that my Communion did not recognize Anglican orders.

Like wise I would still call an RC priest Father (or even an OO priest) because that is the title they hold within their organization...
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« Reply #87 on: December 11, 2010, 03:18:35 AM »

I think this pretty much sums up the EO - RC reunification efforts:

« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 03:18:56 AM by Ortho_cat » Logged
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« Reply #88 on: December 11, 2010, 01:12:28 PM »


I'm actually one of the few RCs that wholeheartedly agrees with that statement, which is odd because most in my Church are more optimistic than that.
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