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Author Topic: Albanian Orthodox Church donates $600,000 for rebuilding of Church & Mosque  (Read 4211 times) Average Rating: 0
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Orthodoc
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Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« on: March 27, 2004, 10:56:07 AM »

ORTHODOX AUTOCEPHALOUS CHURCH OF ALBANIA
HOLY ARCHDIOCESE OF TIRANA

AN OFFER WITH SPECIAL SIGNIFICANCE
($600,000 for a church and a mosque in Kosovo)


The burning of churches and mosques, does not promote justice and peace,
and certainly neither progress.  On the contrary, it is a return to times
and practices which led the Balkans to stagnation, divisions and tragedies.

Indeed, those who involve religion in the violence are essentially
violating the spirit of religion. No matter how much one is in the right,
he must respect the sanctity and the purpose of sacred places of
worship.  These should become centers of reconciliation and peace and not
breeding-grounds for maintaining animosities.

It is only with peaceful coexistence of the religious communities that
genuine social progress can take place.  This is the principal that we
Christians and Muslims alike have adopted in Albania: to live together and
to cooperate with each other in harmony.

The sobriety of religious tolerance and courage of love must overcome the
blind hatred that can only lead to an escalation of conflicts.  In the 21st
century, worldwide and particularly in the Balkan region, we are called
-independent of the national or religious community, in which we were born-
to work hard to coexist peacefully, with mutual respect and solidarity.

With this conviction, the Orthodox Archdiocese of Tirana has made the
following decision:

We offer $600,000 -for the restoration of a church and a mosque in Kosovo,
or the construction of a youth center there that will promote peaceful
coexistence. This sum comes from the funds that, with great effort, we have
raised for the construction of the Orthodox Cathedral in Tirana. It will be
dispatched appropriately, so that it be used equitably, according to the
special significance of this initiative.

Tirana, 26.3.2004

+ Anastasios
Archbishop of Tirana, Durres and All Albania
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2004, 01:02:17 PM »

Why divide the funds ? Did Christians damage a mosque ? I don't see Muslims donating for the restoration of the Church . HuhHuh

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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2004, 01:34:51 PM »


Because it is the Christian thing to do.  It's what separates christianity from Islam.  Hell will freeze over before a Moslem would do something similiar.

Just a the Orthodox Metropolitan who stood beween the angry Serb mob and the Mosque to seave it last week.  How many Moselm clerics would do the reverse?

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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2004, 01:53:15 PM »

Thank God for his eminence, Archbishop Anastasios!  And what an amazing thing to do:  His archdiocese is poor beyond our imagination.  Perhaps we might take his lead, and put an end to hateful words about Muslims (not that we should excude pertinent news items) on the board, at least for the duration of the Fast.
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2004, 02:33:48 PM »

[Thank God for his eminence, Archbishop Anastasios!  And what an amazing thing to do:  His archdiocese is poor beyond our imagination.  Perhaps we might take his lead, and put an end to hateful words about Muslims (not that we should excude pertinent news items) on the board, at least for the duration of the Fast.]

Amen!  What is also is amazing is the fact that he took the money from the funds that were saved to build a new cathedral in Tirana.  No wonder so many are either coming back to the faith or converting to the faith in Albania.

This man is a living saint in my book.  He has performed miracles first in Africa and now in Albania where he is loved by all.  Moslems included.

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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2004, 03:12:22 PM »

Thank you Orthodoc for educating this humble Latin! May this information make headlines here in the US, but we know better, there is no sex attached to the story.

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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2009, 03:55:01 PM »


Because it is the Christian thing to do.  It's what separates christianity from Islam.  Hell will freeze over before a Moslem would do something similiar.

Just a the Orthodox Metropolitan who stood beween the angry Serb mob and the Mosque to seave it last week.  How many Moselm clerics would do the reverse?

Orthodoc

According to a professor of Islamic theology I used to know, Muslims are supposed to protect synagogues and churches even with their own lives. 

Maybe not all Muslims have lived this out over the years, but then again, I hope nobody judges the Orthodox Faith based on my actions either.
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2009, 04:09:22 PM »


Because it is the Christian thing to do.  It's what separates christianity from Islam.  Hell will freeze over before a Moslem would do something similiar.

Just a the Orthodox Metropolitan who stood beween the angry Serb mob and the Mosque to seave it last week.  How many Moselm clerics would do the reverse?

Orthodoc

According to a professor of Islamic theology I used to know, Muslims are supposed to protect synagogues and churches even with their own lives

Maybe not all Muslims have lived this out over the years, but then again, I hope nobody judges the Orthodox Faith based on my actions either.

A line thrown out for consumption in the West, with no basis in Islamic law, history, culture or practice.

The problem is that it is easily demonstrated from Islamic law that a Muslim burning down a church or synagogue is following his religion.  Not so easily done with  a Christian tearing down a mosque.

On Christians obeying the Gospel:
Just want to bump this with an update for the good monks at Decani, who get nowhere near the praise they diserve:
Quote
The Monks of Decani

There is another part of the Church in Kosovo, however, which has already started preparing for the spread of the gospel to the rest of the region. These people are less concerned that Kosovo should become Serbian than that Kosovo as a whole should become Christian.

It seemed to me that the monks of Decani, some of whom have learned to speak Albanian, form something of a vanguard in this forward-looking movement. Although they insisted on the legitimacy of Serbia’s political claims in the region and showed not the slightest enthusiasm for Kosovo independence, the Decani monks manifested a greater interest in the salvation of souls—including Albanian souls.

Indeed, even during the war, the monastery of Decani was a beacon of hope and renewal. When hostile Albanians launched a mortar attack against the monastery, and bombs from American planes (evidently misdirected on purpose!) fell on the monastery’s apple orchard, the monks of Decani went on with their traditional routine: chanting the Psalms and hymnody in church, painting icons, studying the Bible, tilling fields, gathering honey, making cheese and butter, and so on.

And especially these monks loved their neighbors, regardless of race or religion. When the army sent from Yugoslavia was killing and pillaging all through the region, the monks of Decani received the fleeing Muslims and other Albanians into their cloister to protect them. These monks—never more than thirty in number, I think—fed the hungry and housed the homeless. When cursed, they blessed. Slapped on one cheek, they turned the other. That is to say, they did what Christians are supposed to do in the hour of the gospel’s testing. They placed the gospel first. If the spirit of the Decani monastery prevails in the Orthodox Church in Kosovo, I believe nothing is to be feared about the region’s future.
http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=22-07-021-f
Btw, the rest of the article is well worth the read (for full disclosure, my pastor is the author, and I know the Touchstone editors, whose office is next to our church)
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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2009, 04:26:15 PM »

History will once again show that no matter how much you are kind and do the Christian thing to Moslems, they will not reciprocate and will continue to be hostile.  The US and Europe have donated how many billions, nay trillions, of dollars to to Moslems to build mosques and such, not to mention provide military aid to terrorists like the KLA, but the Moslems still continue to hate and call for other countries to adopt shar'ia law and to become Moslem. 

It is the Christian thing to do, but why so much?  GIve $400,000 for the church and $200,000 for the mosque.
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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2009, 04:34:44 PM »

A good gesture for him to do; and it seems to be genuinely an outgrowth of his worldview (compassionate and genuine Orthodoxy) rather than merely a political or other self-interested motive.  May the Lord always bless his Archpriesthood!
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2009, 07:39:29 PM »

To REPLIES NO. 3 & 4,

I apologize if this distracts from the topic or is acting too nutty about titles, but Archbishop Anastasios is the primate (first hierarch) of one of the Holy Orthodox Churches, (an autocephalos church).  Accordingly, he should be referred to as "His Beatitude," not His Eminence.
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« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2009, 01:14:37 PM »

They resigned from THAT.
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« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2009, 12:48:49 AM »


This is most distressing.  Can you imagine the Apostles collecting money for a temple dedicated to a false god?  Allah is a false god who is found in the Koran, which advocates violence toward what it deems to be unbelievers.  Feed your enemies food, clothe them with garments; but do not facilitate false doctrine that will lead them to hell.
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2009, 01:10:46 AM »


This is most distressing.  Can you imagine the Apostles collecting money for a temple dedicated to a false god?  Allah is a false god who is found in the Koran, which advocates violence toward what it deems to be unbelievers.  Feed your enemies food, clothe them with garments; but do not facilitate false doctrine that will lead them to hell.
Just an FYI, the 'Moslems' worship the same God as us. Allah is related to the Hebrew 'Elohim', which refers generically to 'the [one] God'.  So I hope we all do worship Allah!  I do!  I think it's important not to spread incorrect ideas.  These ideas prop up barriers against that scary 'other'. Also I doubt we'd want to get into a discussion of violent things God is supposed to have said in the Bible.  Likely in most books you can find what you need for whatever good/bad you're trying to promote.
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2009, 11:19:00 PM »


This is most distressing.  Can you imagine the Apostles collecting money for a temple dedicated to a false god?  Allah is a false god who is found in the Koran, which advocates violence toward what it deems to be unbelievers.  Feed your enemies food, clothe them with garments; but do not facilitate false doctrine that will lead them to hell.
Just an FYI, the 'Moslems' worship the same God as us. Allah is related to the Hebrew 'Elohim', which refers generically to 'the [one] God'.  So I hope we all do worship Allah!  I do!  I think it's important not to spread incorrect ideas.  These ideas prop up barriers against that scary 'other'. Also I doubt we'd want to get into a discussion of violent things God is supposed to have said in the Bible.  Likely in most books you can find what you need for whatever good/bad you're trying to promote.
Thank you for your post.  Although related etymologically to one another, these two God's are revealed through different texts.  The former via the Koran; the latter through the Holy Scriptures of the Orthodox Church.  A read of both will highlight many profound differences between the two and their respective faiths.  Islam's prophet spreads the faith by killing others through the Sword; Christianity final and definitive prophet has a sword plunged into His side upon the cross of our salvation.  Islam denies the Deity of Christ; Christianity teaches that "God became a man so that man might become god".

Finally, the "violent things" that God is said to have done in the Bible are indicative of the fallen world in which we live.  Death and corruption came as a result of our fall; Christ has redeemed us from death by dying for us.  In His Holy Resurrection he has bestowed life upon all who are baptized into Him.  No need for a further prophet; "in these last days God has spoken to us through His Son". 
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 11:21:33 PM »

^and one God is a Trinity, the other is not.How can they be the same?
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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2009, 12:05:39 AM »

Thanks, although not sure whether I can jive with the idea that two different views of 'oneness' of God amount to a different God worshipped by each of the two religions. The trinity is argued to be perfect unity... anyway we so digress.. This was about the mosque/church issue, I suppose ..
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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2009, 07:02:53 AM »

How can they be the same?
Ask St. Paul how an unknown god of Athens can be the same as Holy Trinity. We worship of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and muslims worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My logic says that we must worship the same God even though muslims don't know Him as good as we.
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2009, 08:59:09 AM »

How can they be the same?
Ask St. Paul how an unknown god of Athens can be the same as Holy Trinity. We worship of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and muslims worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My logic says that we must worship the same God even though muslims don't know Him as good as we.

Well, while I appreciate the example, I do think that if (or when) the Greeks would become obstinate in their denial that the unknown god and the One True God were the same (as the Muslims do), then maybe St. Paul would have taken the stance that some of us do (like myself, and those who here state that the Muslim deity is not the One True God) re: Muslim god and the One True God in Three Persons.
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2009, 01:28:17 PM »

How can they be the same?
Ask St. Paul how an unknown god of Athens can be the same as Holy Trinity. We worship of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and muslims worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My logic says that we must worship the same God even though muslims don't know Him as good as we.

I don't know about you, but I worship the Lord Jesus Christ, my God. Here is what the Qu'ran says about Him:



    O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three (thalathatun). Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector. S. 4:171

    They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things. S. 5:17

    They are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Messiah, Mary’s son.’ For the Messiah said, ‘Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Verily whoso associates with God anything, God shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire; and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.’ They are unbelievers who say, 'God is the Third of Three (thalithu thalathatin). No god is there but One God. If they refrain not from what they say, there shall afflict those of them that disbelieve a painful chastisement. Will they not turn to God and pray His forgiveness? God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; Messengers before him passed away; his mother was a just woman; they both ate food. Behold, how We make clear the signs to them; then behold, how they perverted are! S. 5:70-75
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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2009, 02:44:34 PM »

It would be better that money for Mosques come from the Church of Albania than from the Saudi Government, since it is unlikely we will be given the chance to eradicate Islam from the region, perhaps we can at least promote a more peaceful version of the religion.
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2009, 03:28:01 PM »

How can they be the same?
Ask St. Paul how an unknown god of Athens can be the same as Holy Trinity. We worship of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and muslims worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My logic says that we must worship the same God even though muslims don't know Him as good as we.

I don't know about you, but I worship the Lord Jesus Christ, my God. Here is what the Qu'ran says about Him:



    O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three (thalathatun). Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector. S. 4:171

    They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah, if He had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah's is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He createth what He will. And Allah is Able to do all things. S. 5:17

    They are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Messiah, Mary’s son.’ For the Messiah said, ‘Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Verily whoso associates with God anything, God shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire; and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.’ They are unbelievers who say, 'God is the Third of Three (thalithu thalathatin). No god is there but One God. If they refrain not from what they say, there shall afflict those of them that disbelieve a painful chastisement. Will they not turn to God and pray His forgiveness? God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; Messengers before him passed away; his mother was a just woman; they both ate food. Behold, how We make clear the signs to them; then behold, how they perverted are! S. 5:70-75


Thank you ozgeorge!  I think we're seeing a prime example of why a proper catechism is so important.  Religions may use the same words, but they are understood in vastly different ways.
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2009, 12:08:30 PM »

I don't know about you, but I worship the Lord Jesus Christ, my God.
So you don't worship the same God as the Catholics, the Jews and, say, the Mormons?

Here is what the Qu'ran says about Him
Yes, I agree that the Qu'ran is a quite heretical book. But since the individual muslims focus their worship to the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob I don't understand how the worship could channel to wrong address.

Well, while I appreciate the example, I do think that if (or when) the Greeks would become obstinate in their denial that the unknown god and the One True God were the same (as the Muslims do), then maybe St. Paul would have taken the stance that some of us do (like myself, and those who here state that the Muslim deity is not the One True God) re: Muslim god and the One True God in Three Persons.
Yep, maybe. That's possible but we can't know it for sure since the Acts doesn't specify what St. Paul would have done if the Greeks had reacted differently. The only thing it says that it's possible to worship the One True God even though doesn't know him properly.
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2009, 04:17:11 PM »

ozgeorge, Aristobolus, Fr. George and GabrieltheCelt - Patriarch Theodoros II doesn't agree with you:

Quote
  The blessing of God is greater still when this communication has as its reason the faith in Him and its expression which is worshipping Him. And during these days, faith to the One and Great God is expressed by our beloved fellow Muslim citizens through the Feast of the Sacrifice, Great Bairami.

source
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« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2009, 11:38:10 AM »

Although we must respect Patriarch Theodoros II in is office and role among his flock, we do not have to agree with everything that he utters (just has Roman Catholics do not have to assent to comments made by the Bishop of Rome that are not ex cathedra).  This teaching that Islam and Orthodoxy are two paths to the same God is not a part of Orthodox Tradition.  Indeed, our Paradosis is filled with Saints whose icons remind us of martrydom at the hands of this evil religion.  I would encourage you to begin to attend Daily Vespers and Matins services and to listen to what our holy fathers had to say about religions who deny the Deity of Christ.  Also a daily reading of the Prologue of Ochrid would be helpful.

Mike, you have a sincere desire to serve God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Your posts provide for interesting dialogue, and your ability to communicate in English is improving by the month. May God guide us in His truth, and direct us deeper into the womb of His Holy Church.

 
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« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2009, 05:01:40 PM »

Thank you for your nice words.

I did not want to take part in the discussion, but only underline that many people. including Hierachs, have different opinion.
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