Author Topic: Suffixes in verbs  (Read 1143 times)

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Offline mike

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Suffixes in verbs
« on: November 06, 2010, 03:37:43 PM »
I have a question for female chanters who read in fusional languages (like Greek or Church Slavonic): Do you change the suffixes in verbs from masculine to feminine while reading or not?

Offline augustin717

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2010, 05:34:22 PM »
I don't know about Slavonic, but for Greek this is a non-issue, as verbs proper have no gender marks. Those belong to the noun class.
I strongly suspect it is the same in Slavonic, as these are all IE languages.

Offline mike

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2010, 05:35:52 PM »
I don't know about Slavonic, but for Greek this is a non-issue, as verbs proper have no gender marks. Those belong to the noun class.
I strongly suspect it is the same in Slavonic, as these are all IE languages.

No, it isn't. At least in past tense.

Offline genesisone

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2010, 06:26:45 PM »
Not Greek or Slavonic - but just to illustrate using an example in French:

Je suis mort (letter t is silent) - I have died (informally, I died) masculine

Je suis morte (letter t is sounded) - I have died (informally, I died) feminine

I recognize that is a verb + past participle construction, but it is the way to form the perfect tense (other compound tenses would follow the same pattern). No distinctions in the simple past which is used in literary works, including I would assume, liturgical writings. The past participle with other verbs may need to change as well to agree in person and number with a preceding direct object.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2010, 06:28:47 PM »
Participles are verbal nouns.

Offline mike

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 06:33:29 PM »
Not Greek or Slavonic - but just to illustrate using an example in French:

Je suis mort (letter t is silent) - I have died (informally, I died) masculine

Je suis morte (letter t is sounded) - I have died (informally, I died) feminine

Yes, I mean this kind of thing.

Offline genesisone

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 10:26:59 PM »
Participles are verbal nouns.
Almost. Participles are verbal adjectives; gerunds are verbal nouns, e.g. "seeing is believing". In English the two are identical, though an infinitive can (almost?) always be substituted for a gerund "to see is to believe".

Offline augustin717

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2010, 10:39:32 PM »
Playing semantics, as nouns are a class that subsume adjectives and pronouns, besides nouns proper.

Offline genesisone

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2010, 11:26:03 PM »
Playing semantics, as nouns are a class that subsume adjectives and pronouns, besides nouns proper.
The nominalization of adjectives does occur, and may be a regular feature of some languages, but nouns and adjectives are functionally distinct. The word "substantive" is a more precise label for the class to which you refer.

However, I am quite aware that there are probably more exceptions to linguistic "rules" than applications. There may indeed be a language in which "a big red apple" is rendered as a string of four nouns.

In addition to English, I've studied only French, Spanish, Latin, (Koine) Greek, Italian, and Guaraní, and picked up a bit of Portuguese along the way. I still have a lot to learn.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2010, 02:09:14 AM »
In addition to English, I've studied only French, Spanish, Latin, (Koine) Greek, Italian, and Guaraní, and picked up a bit of Portuguese along the way. I still have a lot to learn.

Way to make a monoglot feel like crap!  ;)
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Offline mike

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2010, 09:26:43 AM »
Can we go back to the topic?

Offline Heorhij

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Re: Suffixes in verbs
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 10:25:17 AM »
Not Greek or Slavonic - but just to illustrate using an example in French:

Je suis mort (letter t is silent) - I have died (informally, I died) masculine

Je suis morte (letter t is sounded) - I have died (informally, I died) feminine

Same in Ukrainian. Я вмeр - I have died (masculine). Я вмeрла - I have died (feminine). Я вмeрло - I have died (neutral).
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 10:26:27 AM by Heorhij »
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