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Author Topic: Alleged Mariolatry in Roman Catholicism.  (Read 3560 times) Average Rating: 0
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2010, 07:42:00 PM »

As a Serbian Eastern Orthodox Christian I have Great love For the Blessed Theotokos, But she is the Holy handmaiden Of the Lord...And She Did say when she received the greeting and News Let it will be done according to your word...So she's the perfect example for us to imitate doing the Lords will...I just can't separate The Blessed Theotokos and Christ From each other....So thats why I prefer Icons with Her and the Infant Saviour together.......Or that what Im use to Growing Up......






Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

My brother, in all due respect and kindness, the vitriolic behavior you have had on this and other threads demonstrates that at times you are indeed separating the Mother from Her Son not perhaps on your iconstasis, but indeed in your heart, for Mary and Christ are the very substance of the true Unity between the Lamb and the Bride, the Body of Christ and Its Head and we (both Mary and all humanity) are mutual communion,

Further, its as I said before, what man, even when he grows up and expresses His own authority, does He not yield it in love and reverence to His mother? I believe in my heart the Christ, in His Perfection, if He yields to the will of any men or women, surely it is in honor of the precept He follows His mother, as even the Scriptures attest to in John 2 when it is written that "He was subject unto them"
I do not mean to doubt or discredit the sincerity of your faith, but let your actions so follow your heart.  Act accordingly, not antagonistically!  
stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 07:43:34 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2010, 07:56:26 PM »

Did roman Catholicism Influence Ethiopia Orthodoxy to some degree ,when the Italians attacked Ethiopia...You even Have  Ethiopean catholic Churches....Some Of your religious Pictures in your churches look Latin ..... Huh Huh Maybe this is cause of the misunderstanding between us in how we see and Honor Holy Mary...





As a Serbian Eastern Orthodox Christian I have Great love For the Blessed Theotokos, But she is the Holy handmaiden Of the Lord...And She Did say when she received the greeting and News Let it will be done according to your word...So she's the perfect example for us to imitate doing the Lords will...I just can't separate The Blessed Theotokos and Christ From each other....So thats why I prefer Icons with Her and the Infant Saviour together.......Or that what Im use to Growing Up......






Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

My brother, in all due respect and kindness, the vitriolic behavior you have had on this and other threads demonstrates that at times you are indeed separating the Mother from Her Son not perhaps on your iconstasis, but indeed in your heart, for Mary and Christ are the very substance of the true Unity between the Lamb and the Bride, the Body of Christ and Its Head and we (both Mary and all humanity) are mutual communion,

Further, its as I said before, what man, even when he grows up and expresses His own authority, does He not yield it in love and reverence to His mother? I believe in my heart the Christ, in His Perfection, if He yields to the will of any men or women, surely it is in honor of the precept He follows His mother, as even the Scriptures attest to in John 2 when it is written that "He was subject unto them"
I do not mean to doubt or discredit the sincerity of your faith, but let your actions so follow your heart.  Act accordingly, not antagonistically!  
stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 08:04:28 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2010, 08:05:59 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

This is ridiculous.  Any Protestant who attends a the Divine Liturgy will immediately come to the conclusion that the Orthodox WORSHIP the Virgin Mary.  How many prayers of the Mass are directed to the Theotokos?  Context is everything! 

Stashko is an anti-Catholic bigot.  I do not understand why he is allowed on this forum to perpetrate his bigotry on this forum.  Do you not understand the damage he does "in the name of Christ and Orthodoxy"? 
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« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2010, 08:17:54 PM »

Ikona's painted all over the Church tell biblical stories and events ,picture writing ...Any Protestant that comes into a Orthodox Church will start gazing at the ceiling and walls  reading them....  Grin

How many of my protestant friends iv taken to church ,I tried to explain the Icons and stories they said no need they could read it for themselfs...They Loved them...


And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

This is ridiculous.  Any Protestant who attends a the Divine Liturgy will immediately come to the conclusion that the Orthodox WORSHIP the Virgin Mary.  How many prayers of the Mass are directed to the Theotokos?  Context is everything!  

Stashko is an anti-Catholic bigot.  I do not understand why he is allowed on this forum to perpetrate his bigotry on this forum.  Do you not understand the damage he does "in the name of Christ and Orthodoxy"?  
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 08:29:20 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2010, 08:40:42 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

This is ridiculous.  Any Protestant who attends a the Divine Liturgy will immediately come to the conclusion that the Orthodox WORSHIP the Virgin Mary.  How many prayers of the Mass are directed to the Theotokos?  Context is everything!  

Stashko is an anti-Catholic bigot.  I do not understand why he is allowed on this forum to perpetrate his bigotry on this forum.  Do you not understand the damage he does "in the name of Christ and Orthodoxy"?  
Father, forgive him for he knows not what he does.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 08:41:12 PM by ChristusDominus » Logged

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« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2010, 09:03:07 PM »

lol - yes, stashko can be annoying.

However, he's right there on Prayer Forum, whenever anyone - even us RCs - asks for help.

So his annoyingness is less annoying to me these days. Wink
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« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2010, 11:45:55 AM »

Quote
The fact that the vast majority of EO remain silent when such things are said about RCs rather than speaking up and chastising them for such comments speaks much louder than words ever could.

Come on, let's not make blanket unsubstantiated statements and label them as 'facts'. It's bad enough that news and opinion on secular events go down that road; we, who profess to be of faith, should do better than that!  BTW, I suppose you weren't following the Icon of Iveron (Hawaii) around the country and taking note of the mixed nature of the congregations that were present to honor the Theotokas.


Edit: fixed quote tags, no more.  -Schultz.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 01:26:25 PM by Schultz » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2010, 02:46:11 PM »


Come on, let's not make blanket unsubstantiated statements and label them as 'facts'. It's bad enough that news and opinion on secular events go down that road; we, who profess to be of faith, should do better than that!  BTW, I suppose you weren't following the Icon of Iveron (Hawaii) around the country and taking note of the mixed nature of the congregations that were present to honor the Theotokas.

Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention and the reminder that we do come together in our love for the mother of God.

Mary
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« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2010, 03:19:55 PM »

Quote
I do not understand why he is allowed on this forum to perpetrate his bigotry on this forum.

In my opinion, because there's no point in muzzling people and I actually appreciate that.

This is unrelated, but bear with me.  I saw a news story here - http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/8565346/ about people protesting a free speech tunnel.  Basically they want free expression to be policed in the free speech tunnel for things they (one can say understandably) find offensive.  I think that's ridiculous, and I look at this the same way.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 03:43:05 PM by AMM » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2010, 05:09:03 PM »

Quote
I do not understand why he is allowed on this forum to perpetrate his bigotry on this forum.

In my opinion, because there's no point in muzzling people and I actually appreciate that.

This is unrelated, but bear with me.  I saw a news story here - http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/8565346/ about people protesting a free speech tunnel.  Basically they want free expression to be policed in the free speech tunnel for things they (one can say understandably) find offensive.  I think that's ridiculous, and I look at this the same way.

Why do you think that Christians believe in unlimited free speech?   Christians have always recognized, at least within the bounds of ecclesial community, that discourse is rightly bounded by revealed truth, charity, civility, and mutual respect.  We may often transgress these boundaries; but that is no excuse for not insisting upon truthful and charitable speech.   
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« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2010, 05:33:38 PM »



Stashko, and others, are allowed to say what they want when they want so long as they do not violate our board policies which every user agreed upon at registration.  What this means is that a user can say outrageous, ridiculous, and even offensive things so long as they basically do not engage in ad hominem and follow proper rules of citation.  We leave it up to our other users to either avoid engaging in debate with absurd arguments and statements (e.g. Do Not Feed the Troll) or to point out the absurdity of such a user's posts.  As noted, this does not mean the moderation staff is here to correct uncharitable behavior or give a proverbial slap to a user's mouth when he or she acts like a child or, worse yet, a fool.  

Our Lord and His Church teaches us to turn the other cheek and be charitable to those who are uncharitable to us; if we cannot do such a thing, we should simply ignore users whose posts we find offensive for the deranged ravings we think they may be.

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« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 05:33:56 PM by Schultz » Logged

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« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2010, 06:03:25 PM »

Ok ! Schultz
Here it is ....

As a Traditional Serbian Orthodox Christian ,i don't recognize The pope it's church or it bishops or priests as clergy, but laypeople in fancy dress playing church....Our Serbian newly elected Patriarch and some of our Bishops may want to Dialog with rome ,but the Majority of Serbs Like minded will not tolerate it for very long...... We will eventually rise up and cast them out..they want rome so much we will send them there.....Hopefully by the Grace Of God we will get a serbian chapter started of Nashi that Holy Mother Russia Has .....[ Nashi] Ours]....For Holy Orthodoxy ,God And Country.....
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 06:20:04 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2010, 07:17:22 PM »

Did roman Catholicism Influence Ethiopia Orthodoxy to some degree ,when the Italians attacked Ethiopia...You even Have  Ethiopian catholic Churches....Some Of your religious Pictures in your churches look Latin ..... Huh Huh Maybe this is cause of the misunderstanding between us in how we see and Honor Holy Mary...


Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So is that your game my brother, to antagonize me personally now for my own histories and connections to Orthodox? That is silly at best, and destructive at worst.  First let me correct you, the schisms in Ethiopia between the Roman Church and the Mother Tewahedo Church are not from Italian occupation, they stem from the Portuguese Jesuits in the 16th and 17th centuries, who spread the Gregorian reformations and pursued a Latinization of Ethiopian Orthodoxy, including attempts at rebaptizing whole populations and sending false and literally lying and cheating supposed Patriarchs who pretended to be Egyptian and having forged documents from the Patriarch in Alexandria!  The Ethiopian Roman Catholic Church which has a few hundred thousand members today in Ethiopia is the direct result of that history, and began to thrive during the period of persecution of Imperialists within the Orthodox family during the Derg era.

Those are the Ethiopian Roman Catholic Churches, but even in the Tewahedo Orthodox parishes Ethiopians have such a solid and admirable faith in Jesus Christ that they do not discriminate in their images of worship, between "Catholic" or "Orthodox" or "African" or even Pentecostal.  In many delightful churches, contrary to the normal tastes of parishioners in other traditions who are rather snobbish about their Images and prefer them to be in-line with their own ethnic/racial/nationalistic perspectives, there are a wide variety of Images of Jesus or the Saints or of Mary, some are from Protestant Christmas cards! Some are indeed Roman Catholic, some are Greek Orthodox, you will find several Images of Jesus on the same Altar or church wall being white, black and brown! Ethiopians do not have a preference, they revere ALL Images of our Savior, and seldom could find fault in any, be it lily white Anglican paintings, Baptists prints, Roman Catholic prayer cards, Orthodox icons, or any such Images. I personally (even as an American convert) adore the black, Ethiopian Jesus icons of the purely Ethiopian traditions, and wear one around my neck, but Ethiopians themselves are comfortable enough with Jesus that they do not need to personalize Him, they do not NEED and Ethiopian Jesus to believe and be secure, they do not care much for historicity or nationalism.

The only misunderstandings here are between you personally and many other people whose faith you have even dared to scoff?! That is silly, I pray for the unity of love between us, I do not think your beliefs have to be antagonistic, you are free to worship as your heart sees fit, but why attack others continuously for their own faith? It is not yours to judge, for One is the Judge and the Lawgiver.

The Virgin Mary is integral symbol and presence of our Faith in Orthodox.  She is the Shrine which can never be over-turned as God himself chose to dwell within Her just as He comes and dwells within us, she is the Right and True Queen of Heaven, and she is our True and Sympathetic Mother.  It is not of Herself that She does this, it is the Nature and Essence of God which operates through Her and us, but none-the-less, She plays a central role as both the Scriptures and the Holy Tradition attest to.  This is the economy of God, that He operates within the free will of human beings, and the Virgin Mary is indeed a human being, entirely, solely, and so Her Unity with God and communion is our own, for if She could be given such Grace, so can we, and if it is One Body of Christ unbroken, then our connection with Her is as permanent as with anyone else.  We honor Her because God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit did, do and will continue to honor Her, it is right and fitting.
It is not of Her own power, but of God, but still God chooses in His Divine Mercy, to operate through Her in us.  She is the sign that God will have mercy on human beings, and there is Hope yet for humanity, and we should be careful to never belittle this great miracle of God, that "all generations shall call Her blessed."

Please dwell in unity of faith and love of fellowship, or you will be caught up in the web of your own misunderstandings and antagonisms, and will have no one to fault but yourself, for as we in Rastafari say, "If a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught!" We also say that those who burn fire must be careful, "because the fire is not partial, not even to him that burns the fire!"

stay blessed,
habte selassie
 
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« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2010, 07:31:58 PM »

Why do you think that Christians believe in unlimited free speech?

Because we have free will.  Even here though, not all speech would be tolerated.  There are bounds, which there should be, to regulate discourse and so on.  The point to me about free speech though is not so much that we're free to say anything, but that we're mature enough mentally and spiritually to regulate what comes out of our mouths.


It's all of course balanced with the knowledge that nobody actually acts like this in real life.  The impersonality and distance of text conversation allows us to greater latitude to be idiotic and offensive.
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« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2010, 07:39:59 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.

stashko's anti-Catholicism is nothing new, nor is it representative of most Orthodox on here, though I agree with you that some people do have a double standard when it comes to Mary, purgatory, communion, etc.
The fact that the vast majority of EO remain silent when such things are said about RCs rather than speaking up and chastising them for such comments speaks much louder than words ever could.

As Papist said, we're used to stashko's outbursts and, frankly, he's allowed to have them.  Just like you're allowed to rebut them if you choose to do so.  Just know that we've been over this time and time again; you're not going to change his mind and he's not going to change yours.

Secondly, if you're going to stick around here, you need to grow a thicker skin.  Why do you care so much about what a faceless internet user thinks about your religion?  If your faith is that weak that it's scuttled by comments made by some anonymous person via a post on an internet messageboard, you perhaps need to not argue religion on the internet.  I say this as someone who has seen way too many people leave their respective churches because of something someone said on the internet.

I for one have been only recently made aware of this hatred of so-called Mary worshipers, This was earlier this year in a social atmosphere with some new friends who spoke Greek yet were of another faith I am not sure which. But this person became very close to me because he only speaks Spanish and Greek and very little English so I was the only one who he knew in Illinois who spoke Greek and he had learned it as a young sailor on Greek ships sailing out of Venezuela where he is from. He made a comment about Catholics and the Virgin Mary once that mirrors what is being said here which I as a Greek Orthodox never really heard before. Maybe just vague mentions in offhand remarks through the years.

I vigorously rebuked him that day and he did not understand why because he knew I was a Greek Orthodox and he had spent much time with Greeks when he was young (20-30 years prior), I told him I did not like him judging them badly that way regardless what he thought was wrong about their practice. I felt that way as I have been to many Thursday worship services that we venerate the Virgin. I will say that very few are ever there and it may be that it is a small service and during the work week ,but anyway I have venerated her many times at my Greek Orthodox church near Chicago.

I certainly never heard any Greeks talking that way in church or at all the Greek Church functions I have worked as a musician all my life.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 07:50:18 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

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« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2010, 07:49:30 PM »

Thank You! for the History lession on Ethiopia..May God Bless Orthodox Ethiopia and It's  people Prosper their by the Grace of God....

Why Shouldn't Holy Orthodoxy take a stand for truth...Why Aren't you a Ethiopian Unitarian ,they seem to accept everything....I mentioned Before somewhere that Catholics Don't confess the same creed as we Eastern Orthodox do  ,So our Holy Trinity isn't the same..they worship a different god..There Mary is a Mary of Of recent Apparitions, not known to Holy Orthodoxy..We eastern Orthodox venerate The Scriptual Most Blessed Theotokos .....

There was a Ethiopian Deacon Amstead on this forum awhile back ,He wouldn't agreed with some of the things you posted....




Did roman Catholicism Influence Ethiopia Orthodoxy to some degree ,when the Italians attacked Ethiopia...You even Have  Ethiopian catholic Churches....Some Of your religious Pictures in your churches look Latin ..... Huh Huh Maybe this is cause of the misunderstanding between us in how we see and Honor Holy Mary...


Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So is that your game my brother, to antagonize me personally now for my own histories and connections to Orthodox? That is silly at best, and destructive at worst.  First let me correct you, the schisms in Ethiopia between the Roman Church and the Mother Tewahedo Church are not from Italian occupation, they stem from the Portuguese Jesuits in the 16th and 17th centuries, who spread the Gregorian reformations and pursued a Latinization of Ethiopian Orthodoxy, including attempts at rebaptizing whole populations and sending false and literally lying and cheating supposed Patriarchs who pretended to be Egyptian and having forged documents from the Patriarch in Alexandria!  The Ethiopian Roman Catholic Church which has a few hundred thousand members today in Ethiopia is the direct result of that history, and began to thrive during the period of persecution of Imperialists within the Orthodox family during the Derg era.

Those are the Ethiopian Roman Catholic Churches, but even in the Tewahedo Orthodox parishes Ethiopians have such a solid and admirable faith in Jesus Christ that they do not discriminate in their images of worship, between "Catholic" or "Orthodox" or "African" or even Pentecostal.  In many delightful churches, contrary to the normal tastes of parishioners in other traditions who are rather snobbish about their Images and prefer them to be in-line with their own ethnic/racial/nationalistic perspectives, there are a wide variety of Images of Jesus or the Saints or of Mary, some are from Protestant Christmas cards! Some are indeed Roman Catholic, some are Greek Orthodox, you will find several Images of Jesus on the same Altar or church wall being white, black and brown! Ethiopians do not have a preference, they revere ALL Images of our Savior, and seldom could find fault in any, be it lily white Anglican paintings, Baptists prints, Roman Catholic prayer cards, Orthodox icons, or any such Images. I personally (even as an American convert) adore the black, Ethiopian Jesus icons of the purely Ethiopian traditions, and wear one around my neck, but Ethiopians themselves are comfortable enough with Jesus that they do not need to personalize Him, they do not NEED and Ethiopian Jesus to believe and be secure, they do not care much for historicity or nationalism.

The only misunderstandings here are between you personally and many other people whose faith you have even dared to scoff?! That is silly, I pray for the unity of love between us, I do not think your beliefs have to be antagonistic, you are free to worship as your heart sees fit, but why attack others continuously for their own faith? It is not yours to judge, for One is the Judge and the Lawgiver.

The Virgin Mary is integral symbol and presence of our Faith in Orthodox.  She is the Shrine which can never be over-turned as God himself chose to dwell within Her just as He comes and dwells within us, she is the Right and True Queen of Heaven, and she is our True and Sympathetic Mother.  It is not of Herself that She does this, it is the Nature and Essence of God which operates through Her and us, but none-the-less, She plays a central role as both the Scriptures and the Holy Tradition attest to.  This is the economy of God, that He operates within the free will of human beings, and the Virgin Mary is indeed a human being, entirely, solely, and so Her Unity with God and communion is our own, for if She could be given such Grace, so can we, and if it is One Body of Christ unbroken, then our connection with Her is as permanent as with anyone else.  We honor Her because God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit did, do and will continue to honor Her, it is right and fitting.
It is not of Her own power, but of God, but still God chooses in His Divine Mercy, to operate through Her in us.  She is the sign that God will have mercy on human beings, and there is Hope yet for humanity, and we should be careful to never belittle this great miracle of God, that "all generations shall call Her blessed."

Please dwell in unity of faith and love of fellowship, or you will be caught up in the web of your own misunderstandings and antagonisms, and will have no one to fault but yourself, for as we in Rastafari say, "If a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught!" We also say that those who burn fire must be careful, "because the fire is not partial, not even to him that burns the fire!"

stay blessed,
habte selassie
 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 08:12:50 PM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
stashko
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« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2010, 08:29:44 PM »


spelling corrected Name...to Deacon Amdetsion

Thank You! for the History lession on Ethiopia..May God Bless Orthodox Ethiopia and It's  people Prosper their by the Grace of God....

Why Shouldn't Holy Orthodoxy take a stand for truth...Why Aren't you a Ethiopian Unitarian ,they seem to accept everything....I mentioned Before somewhere that Catholics Don't confess the same creed as we Eastern Orthodox do  ,So our Holy Trinity isn't the same..they worship a different god..There Mary is a Mary of Of recent Apparitions, not known to Holy Orthodoxy..We eastern Orthodox venerate The Scriptual Most Blessed Theotokos .....

There was a Ethiopian Deacon Amdetsion on this forum awhile back ,He wouldn't agreed with some of the things you posted....
                               ------------------ [ Fr.Deacons Name Corrected Spelling]



Did roman Catholicism Influence Ethiopia Orthodoxy to some degree ,when the Italians attacked Ethiopia...You even Have  Ethiopian catholic Churches....Some Of your religious Pictures in your churches look Latin ..... Huh Huh Maybe this is cause of the misunderstanding between us in how we see and Honor Holy Mary...


Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So is that your game my brother, to antagonize me personally now for my own histories and connections to Orthodox? That is silly at best, and destructive at worst.  First let me correct you, the schisms in Ethiopia between the Roman Church and the Mother Tewahedo Church are not from Italian occupation, they stem from the Portuguese Jesuits in the 16th and 17th centuries, who spread the Gregorian reformations and pursued a Latinization of Ethiopian Orthodoxy, including attempts at rebaptizing whole populations and sending false and literally lying and cheating supposed Patriarchs who pretended to be Egyptian and having forged documents from the Patriarch in Alexandria!  The Ethiopian Roman Catholic Church which has a few hundred thousand members today in Ethiopia is the direct result of that history, and began to thrive during the period of persecution of Imperialists within the Orthodox family during the Derg era.

Those are the Ethiopian Roman Catholic Churches, but even in the Tewahedo Orthodox parishes Ethiopians have such a solid and admirable faith in Jesus Christ that they do not discriminate in their images of worship, between "Catholic" or "Orthodox" or "African" or even Pentecostal.  In many delightful churches, contrary to the normal tastes of parishioners in other traditions who are rather snobbish about their Images and prefer them to be in-line with their own ethnic/racial/nationalistic perspectives, there are a wide variety of Images of Jesus or the Saints or of Mary, some are from Protestant Christmas cards! Some are indeed Roman Catholic, some are Greek Orthodox, you will find several Images of Jesus on the same Altar or church wall being white, black and brown! Ethiopians do not have a preference, they revere ALL Images of our Savior, and seldom could find fault in any, be it lily white Anglican paintings, Baptists prints, Roman Catholic prayer cards, Orthodox icons, or any such Images. I personally (even as an American convert) adore the black, Ethiopian Jesus icons of the purely Ethiopian traditions, and wear one around my neck, but Ethiopians themselves are comfortable enough with Jesus that they do not need to personalize Him, they do not NEED and Ethiopian Jesus to believe and be secure, they do not care much for historicity or nationalism.

The only misunderstandings here are between you personally and many other people whose faith you have even dared to scoff?! That is silly, I pray for the unity of love between us, I do not think your beliefs have to be antagonistic, you are free to worship as your heart sees fit, but why attack others continuously for their own faith? It is not yours to judge, for One is the Judge and the Lawgiver.

The Virgin Mary is integral symbol and presence of our Faith in Orthodox.  She is the Shrine which can never be over-turned as God himself chose to dwell within Her just as He comes and dwells within us, she is the Right and True Queen of Heaven, and she is our True and Sympathetic Mother.  It is not of Herself that She does this, it is the Nature and Essence of God which operates through Her and us, but none-the-less, She plays a central role as both the Scriptures and the Holy Tradition attest to.  This is the economy of God, that He operates within the free will of human beings, and the Virgin Mary is indeed a human being, entirely, solely, and so Her Unity with God and communion is our own, for if She could be given such Grace, so can we, and if it is One Body of Christ unbroken, then our connection with Her is as permanent as with anyone else.  We honor Her because God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit did, do and will continue to honor Her, it is right and fitting.
It is not of Her own power, but of God, but still God chooses in His Divine Mercy, to operate through Her in us.  She is the sign that God will have mercy on human beings, and there is Hope yet for humanity, and we should be careful to never belittle this great miracle of God, that "all generations shall call Her blessed."

Please dwell in unity of faith and love of fellowship, or you will be caught up in the web of your own misunderstandings and antagonisms, and will have no one to fault but yourself, for as we in Rastafari say, "If a fish woulda keep him big yap shut, him never woulda got caught!" We also say that those who burn fire must be careful, "because the fire is not partial, not even to him that burns the fire!"

stay blessed,
habte selassie
 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 08:32:08 PM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
HabteSelassie
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« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2010, 11:14:16 PM »

Thank You! for the History lession on Ethiopia..May God Bless Orthodox Ethiopia and It's  people Prosper their by the Grace of God....

Why Shouldn't Holy Orthodoxy take a stand for truth...Why Aren't you a Ethiopian Unitarian ,they seem to accept everything....I mentioned Before somewhere that Catholics Don't confess the same creed as we Eastern Orthodox do  ,So our Holy Trinity isn't the same..they worship a different god..There Mary is a Mary of Of recent Apparitions, not known to Holy Orthodoxy..We eastern Orthodox venerate The Scriptual Most Blessed Theotokos .....

There was a Ethiopian Deacon Amstead on this forum awhile back ,He wouldn't agreed with some of the things you posted....


Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Brother, please, in the Grace of God, humbly get over yourself! You are going to school me on my experience in that you are now speaking on behalf of an ordained Deacon? Humility goes a long way, I may be chief amongst sinners before Christ, but before God I have done nothing to antagonize you so much as you continue to insist to do to me and many folks on this thread! I pray for the calmness of your spirit and peace between us all, for this is truly a silly thing.

The Virgin signifies the Unity between (purely) humans and God, through the miracle of the Incarnation, and I need not further explain this to you, other than that if you continue to promote seeds of strife, bitterness and division, surely your works will speak for themselves in the scheme of things.  Please pursue peace rater than division, the truth is love, not petty quarrels.
You said take a stand for truth, who here aside from you in your own self-aggrandizing opinion ever suggested anything against the truth of Orthodox? Your fire and brimstone will only serve to burn and hurt yourself, the rest of us are praying in the humility of God for reconciliation on behalf of our sins, but you keep pushing buttons.  Leyikun, Leyikun, Burukte Leyikun! (Let it be, Let it be, Let it be Blessed!)

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
synLeszka
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« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2010, 03:50:46 PM »

cancelled
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 04:00:18 PM by synLeszka » Logged
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