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Author Topic: Alleged Mariolatry in Roman Catholicism.  (Read 3548 times) Average Rating: 0
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stashko
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« on: November 05, 2010, 01:59:47 PM »

Edit: Split off from Roman Catholic Churches thread.  - Schultz.

Iv Been to this Church ,,,,Some thing's I Liked About it ..A catholic friend took me there to see it...
Some of the More Orthodox Mosaics I Liked ..The Main Mosaic Over the Altar ,Didn't like at all....
The crypt church below with the little Altars ,And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Not really Impressed....

Some of the churches I have been to in the D.C. area.

The National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception:



I used to serve Mass here about a decade ago and the sanctuary has never looked this pretty.  Methinks the photographer played with the light both before and after taking the picture. Wink

It's usually a dull gray color all the time.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 04:08:35 PM by Schultz » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2010, 02:40:32 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2010, 02:48:20 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 02:50:55 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Don't worry about it. He likes to make stuff up.
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 02:51:28 PM »

.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 02:52:01 PM by Azurestone » Logged


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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2010, 02:52:11 PM »

^ Awwww. I can't see the picture.  Embarrassed
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 02:52:52 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 02:53:30 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.
Seriously dude, in this case you don't want to go down the rabbit hole.
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 02:55:53 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.
Seriously dude, in this case you don't want to go down the rabbit hole.
First they say our apparitions are really demons. Now they are saying we worship rather than venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary. Oh yeah, I almost forgot that we worship a false trinity rather than the actual Holy Trinity. Good grief.  Angry
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2010, 02:56:23 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.

stashko's anti-Catholicism is nothing new, nor is it representative of most Orthodox on here, though I agree with you that some people do have a double standard when it comes to Mary, purgatory, communion, etc.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 02:56:59 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2010, 02:57:21 PM »

What Asteriktos said.
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2010, 02:58:24 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.

stashko's anti-Catholicism is nothing new, nor is it representative of most Orthodox on here, though I agree with you that some people do have a double standard when it comes to Mary, purgatory, communion, etc.
The fact that the vast majority of EO remain silent when such things are said about RCs rather than speaking up and chastising them for such comments speaks much louder than words ever could.
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2010, 03:01:46 PM »

Fwiw, I will try to be more proactive in the future...
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2010, 03:09:49 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.

stashko's anti-Catholicism is nothing new, nor is it representative of most Orthodox on here, though I agree with you that some people do have a double standard when it comes to Mary, purgatory, communion, etc.
The fact that the vast majority of EO remain silent when such things are said about RCs rather than speaking up and chastising them for such comments speaks much louder than words ever could.
Wyatt,
Stashko has been on this forum for a while. He has been rebuked in the past by his fellow EOs. I think at this point, most are just worn out with his comments and are unwilling to continue to rebuke him. No one really takes his words all that seriously. I think I am one of the only people here who is silly enough to occassionally respond to his posts. Like I said, it's just not worth going down that rabbit hole.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 03:10:14 PM by Papist » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2010, 03:12:57 PM »

.

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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2010, 03:23:05 PM »


 Shocked
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« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2010, 03:23:56 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.

stashko's anti-Catholicism is nothing new, nor is it representative of most Orthodox on here, though I agree with you that some people do have a double standard when it comes to Mary, purgatory, communion, etc.
The fact that the vast majority of EO remain silent when such things are said about RCs rather than speaking up and chastising them for such comments speaks much louder than words ever could.

As Papist said, we're used to stashko's outbursts and, frankly, he's allowed to have them.  Just like you're allowed to rebut them if you choose to do so.  Just know that we've been over this time and time again; you're not going to change his mind and he's not going to change yours.

Secondly, if you're going to stick around here, you need to grow a thicker skin.  Why do you care so much about what a faceless internet user thinks about your religion?  If your faith is that weak that it's scuttled by comments made by some anonymous person via a post on an internet messageboard, you perhaps need to not argue religion on the internet.  I say this as someone who has seen way too many people leave their respective churches because of something someone said on the internet.
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« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2010, 03:26:52 PM »

^ Adding to what Shultz said, There are many great Eastern Orthodox Christians on this board. And while they may not necessarily agree with everything that we as Catholics believe, they are very sensitive to our presence here and respectful in their dialogue. Shultz and HandmaidofGod are two that pop to mind right now, but there are plenty others.
Wyatt, I think the reason that it appears like most are anti-Catholic, is that the ones who are anti-Catholic (I'm not going to bring up names, but you know who they are) are the loudest.
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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2010, 03:59:06 PM »

There have been cases of alleged Mariolatry in the RC Church in the past.  When Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani was in charge of the Holy Office (n.k.a. Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith), one of his great concerns was some of the Mariological practices being carried on in Latin America.  And he was far from being theologically liberal.

If one is to discuss Catholic veneration of the BVM seriously, I should think it would behoove one to study the whole history of Catholic Mariology.  One's opinion might not change, but it would, at least, be better informed.
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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2010, 04:02:18 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.

stashko's anti-Catholicism is nothing new, nor is it representative of most Orthodox on here, though I agree with you that some people do have a double standard when it comes to Mary, purgatory, communion, etc.
The fact that the vast majority of EO remain silent when such things are said about RCs rather than speaking up and chastising them for such comments speaks much louder than words ever could.

"Instruct a fool and he will hate you," says the Holy King Solomon. "Do not cast your pearls before swine," says the Lord. Not everything needs to be dignified with a response.
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2010, 04:05:26 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.
Seriously dude, in this case you don't want to go down the rabbit hole.
First they say our apparitions are really demons. Now they are saying we worship rather than venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary. Oh yeah, I almost forgot that we worship a false trinity rather than the actual Holy Trinity. Good grief.  Angry

Who is this "they," and what do "they" have to do with the creation and (possible) point of this thread?
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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2010, 04:07:44 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?

Are you sure you really want that?  Wink Cheesy
Oh yes, I would indeed like to know why when the EO have a devotion to the Blessed Theotokos it is "veneration" and completely acceptable, yet when an RC has a devotion to her it's suddenly idolatry. The anti-Catholicism just gets more and more blatant on here.
Seriously dude, in this case you don't want to go down the rabbit hole.
First they say our apparitions are really demons. Now they are saying we worship rather than venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary. Oh yeah, I almost forgot that we worship a false trinity rather than the actual Holy Trinity. Good grief.  Angry

Who is this "they," and what do "they" have to do with the creation and (possible) point of this thread?


FYI, I split this thread off from the Roman Catholic Churches thread because I am trying to keep that thread as focused as possible.  This is a tangent started by stashko that would totally derail an otherwise edifying thread.

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« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 04:18:50 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 04:20:23 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

Guys he has a point. Look at his profile pic. He worships Mary, too.   Grin
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 04:20:38 PM by Azurestone » Logged


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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2010, 04:22:58 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

Sounds like a description of most Orthodox churches I've visited, only there are also images of the saints everywhere.
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« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 04:25:02 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

Sounds like a description of most Orthodox churches I've visited, only there are also images of the saints everywhere.
We have images of Saints too. I still don't get what the issue is.
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« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 04:27:27 PM »

Well, I do know of one Catholic priest (probably a theological liberal) who called the National Shrine "that pagan temple."

What the average, relatively uneducated Protestant would think about seeing that church--let alone a fully-iconographed Orthodox temple--isn't really relevant.

BTW, I visited the National Shrine when I was in college and still a Presbyterian.  It is beautiful, by comparison with all the Brutalist churches Roman Catholics have built in recent years.  Of course, I didn't think favorably about the theology behind their iconography, but I didn't come away horrified, either, and I couldn't deny the beauty.
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« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2010, 04:33:54 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

Sounds like a description of most Orthodox churches I've visited, only there are also images of the saints everywhere.
We have images of Saints too. I still don't get what the issue is.

I was referring mostly to the Basilica of the IC.  Of course, I know that there are images of saints in Catholic churches worldwide...at least those that weren't wreckovated. Smiley
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« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2010, 04:45:55 PM »

Very few  Orthodox Ikona's  show the Blessed Theotokos by Herself ...Christs is the center of attention for us  And the Blessed Theotokos Points to Christ ,Do what He Tells You......




And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

Guys he has a point. Look at his profile pic. He worships Mary, too.   Grin
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 05:02:02 PM by stashko » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2010, 04:48:16 PM »

Center? But she's so much BIGGER!




Very few  Orthodox Ikona's  show the Blessed Theotokos by Herself ...Christs is the center of attention for us  And Theotokos Points to Him ,Do what He Tells You......




And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

Guys he has a point. Look at his profile pic. He worships Mary, too.   Grin
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 04:49:39 PM by Azurestone » Logged


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« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2010, 04:49:00 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

Sounds like a description of most Orthodox churches I've visited, only there are also images of the saints everywhere.
We have images of Saints too. I still don't get what the issue is.

I was referring mostly to the Basilica of the IC.  Of course, I know that there are images of saints in Catholic churches worldwide...at least those that weren't wreckovated. Smiley
Wreckovated. I'll have to remember that.
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« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2010, 04:51:16 PM »

I think that RC's give more attention to Mary than Orthodox do in general and she is usually displayed more prominently in the former (often by herself, with a crown, etc.). Also, she is more central to devotions in the RC tradition (e.g. Rosary) and the immaculate conception and the assumption dogma, neither of which the Orthodox have.
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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2010, 04:54:49 PM »


The Infant Jesus Is On Her Lap ...... center of Attention for us ...I don't have or want icons of Mary by Herself....


Center? But she's so much BIGGER!




Very few  Orthodox Ikona's  show the Blessed Theotokos by Herself ...Christs is the center of attention for us  And Theotokos Points to Him ,Do what He Tells You......




And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

Guys he has a point. Look at his profile pic. He worships Mary, too.   Grin

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« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2010, 04:55:37 PM »

And How mary is worshiped all over the world by Catholics ...
Uhh...care to elaborate on this?
Everywhere one turned  Mary in Depicted in Mosaics , Ikon's ,Pictures, cutout tin images of mary hangings on the walls .....What would the protestants think if they ever visited.. It crossed my mind  when i visited the cathedral Mary worship ....

Sounds like a description of most Orthodox churches I've visited, only there are also images of the saints everywhere.
We have images of Saints too. I still don't get what the issue is.

I was referring mostly to the Basilica of the IC.  Of course, I know that there are images of saints in Catholic churches worldwide...at least those that weren't wreckovated. Smiley
Well obviously there is going to be more attention payed to Mary in a Basilica dedicated to her Immaculate Conception. That doesn't imply Mary worship.
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« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2010, 04:57:45 PM »

I think that RC's give more attention to Mary than Orthodox do in general and she is usually displayed more prominently in the former (often by herself, with a crown, etc.). Also, she is more central to devotions in the RC tradition (e.g. Rosary) and the immaculate conception and the assumption dogma, neither of which the Orthodox have.

And yet, in the Catholic Mass, even the old Latin one, the Blessed Mother is mentioned far less than she is in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.  Both of those liturgies are 90+% of what the average Catholic and Orthodox, respectively, experience of their total religious life.

I'm sorry, but to anyone who pays attention to the liturgical texts can see, the Orthodox talk about the Blessed Mother far more than the Catholics, especially modern Catholics, do.
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« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2010, 05:02:14 PM »

I think that RC's give more attention to Mary than Orthodox do in general and she is usually displayed more prominently in the former (often by herself, with a crown, etc.). Also, she is more central to devotions in the RC tradition (e.g. Rosary) and the immaculate conception and the assumption dogma, neither of which the Orthodox have.

And yet, in the Catholic Mass, even the old Latin one, the Blessed Mother is mentioned far less than she is in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.  Both of those liturgies are 90+% of what the average Catholic and Orthodox, respectively, experience of their total religious life.

I'm sorry, but to anyone who pays attention to the liturgical texts can see, the Orthodox talk about the Blessed Mother far more than the Catholics, especially modern Catholics, do.

Perhaps, but In general, I feel that the Orthodox Church gives her the respect that is proper, while the Roman Church elevates her above that which is proper. No offense RC's, just my opinion...  Kiss
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« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2010, 05:26:54 PM »

But why is she so BIG? She must be more important? If not, you'd have a giant Jesus, right? and then maybe a little Mary next to him?

Mary by herself? How rude. How do we know who she IS?! Is she labeled?


The Infant Jesus Is On Her Lap ...... center of Attention for us ...I don't have or want icons of Mary by Herself....

Center? But she's so much BIGGER!




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« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2010, 05:30:37 PM »

Well of course there is the Christ Pantocrator above in the dome which usually dwarfs the Theotokos Platytera Icon in comparison.
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« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2010, 05:41:54 PM »

Hu !...Are you for real..... Grin Being dipicted Larger doesn't make one greater ...Who Can be Greater than God...Who... Grin




But why is she so BIG? She must be more important? If not, you'd have a giant Jesus, right? and then maybe a little Mary next to him?

Mary by herself? How rude. How do we know who she IS?! Is she labeled?


The Infant Jesus Is On Her Lap ...... center of Attention for us ...I don't have or want icons of Mary by Herself....

Center? But she's so much BIGGER!




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« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2010, 05:43:58 PM »

I think that RC's give more attention to Mary than Orthodox do in general and she is usually displayed more prominently in the former (often by herself, with a crown, etc.). Also, she is more central to devotions in the RC tradition (e.g. Rosary) and the immaculate conception and the assumption dogma, neither of which the Orthodox have.

And yet, in the Catholic Mass, even the old Latin one, the Blessed Mother is mentioned far less than she is in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.  Both of those liturgies are 90+% of what the average Catholic and Orthodox, respectively, experience of their total religious life.

I'm sorry, but to anyone who pays attention to the liturgical texts can see, the Orthodox talk about the Blessed Mother far more than the Catholics, especially modern Catholics, do.

Perhaps, but In general, I feel that the Orthodox Church gives her the respect that is proper, while the Roman Church elevates her above that which is proper. No offense RC's, just my opinion...  Kiss
Yes, like chanting, "Mary, save us!"
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« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2010, 05:45:01 PM »

Mike Ditka!  Grin Wink

Quote
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Hu !...Are you for real..... Grin Being dipicted Larger doesn't make one greater ...Who Can be Greater than God...Who... Grin

But why is she so BIG? She must be more important? If not, you'd have a giant Jesus, right? and then maybe a little Mary next to him?

Mary by herself? How rude. How do we know who she IS?! Is she labeled?


The Infant Jesus Is On Her Lap ...... center of Attention for us ...I don't have or want icons of Mary by Herself....
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« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2010, 06:40:01 PM »

I think that RC's give more attention to Mary than Orthodox do in general and she is usually displayed more prominently in the former (often by herself, with a crown, etc.). Also, she is more central to devotions in the RC tradition (e.g. Rosary) and the immaculate conception and the assumption dogma, neither of which the Orthodox have.

And yet, in the Catholic Mass, even the old Latin one, the Blessed Mother is mentioned far less than she is in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.  Both of those liturgies are 90+% of what the average Catholic and Orthodox, respectively, experience of their total religious life.

I'm sorry, but to anyone who pays attention to the liturgical texts can see, the Orthodox talk about the Blessed Mother far more than the Catholics, especially modern Catholics, do.

Perhaps, but In general, I feel that the Orthodox Church gives her the respect that is proper, while the Roman Church elevates her above that which is proper. No offense RC's, just my opinion...  Kiss
Yes, like chanting, "Mary, save us!"

This in no way attributes a co-redemptrix role to Mary. Salvation is viewed as radically different in the OC than in the West.  This is no different than when paul states:

"To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

1 Cor. 9:22
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« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2010, 06:43:32 PM »

Certainly there are Scriptures which talk about people having a hand in salvation (1 Tim. 4:16; James 5:19-20), and we Orthodox certainly believe in intercessory prayer by the saints that are part of the Church triumphant... yet I still think that it's a bit different when it comes to the Theotokos.
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« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2010, 06:49:11 PM »


The Infant Jesus Is On Her Lap ...... center of Attention for us ...I don't have or want icons of Mary by Herself....




Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Don't be so snug as to snub the Holy Mother of God! For what Man, does not honor and venerate his own earthly mother? And if Jesus Christ is indeed, fully God and fully Man, then surely our Lord and Savior in all things, in all ages, honors His Holy Mother in all the He is.  This is the economy of God, that through our own human endeavours, God meets us half the way, and carries us forward.  We live in a world of 4 dimensions, of time and space interacting, we have free will to move in any corpeal direction we chose, and yet we are ALWAYS both sustained and limited by the realities of the laws of reality such as Gravity.  Such is our Free Will economy with God, who is the Source and Being of all things, and so we have only the freedom to move within the parameters of God, but what a glorious freedom it is!

And that being said, the miracle of the Incarnation is Divine enough to sustain all things, and so just as God has deigned Himself to take on the flesh, that the Limitless would become Limited, the Eternal would take on a specific time and place, so also He has allowed for the Holy Mother to operate within the parameters of human Free Will.  Just as a mother pushes her babe in the stroller, trodding in the hot sun across the park by the strength and grace of her own human endurance, so to does the Savior allow Himself to be moved by humans, through the Grace given to His Holy Mother.  The economy of God is to cooperate fully within the Free Will of Human decisions, and His Holy Mother is very much a part of this, for it is written to Honor thy Mother and Father with promise.

While Mary was only His Regent while He was a Babe, She carried Him where She willed until He carried Himself (Luke 2:49), nonetheless what man as he grows older cares less for his mother? Do we human men on the earth not grow more fond, more reverent, more respectful of our earthly mothers as we grow into successful men, and as we embrace our own authority, do we not all the more so yield it to the love and honor of our Mothers at any and every cost? So to, even as the Savior is enthroned at the Right Hand of the Father, out of pure love, He will always respect and revere and honor the will and decisions and opinions and thoughts and requests of His and Our Holy Mother.
There is neither Mariology nor Marianology , simply the Love of God which operates through us all, and especially Our Mother.

Stay Blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 06:55:18 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2010, 07:25:36 PM »

As a Serbian Eastern Orthodox Christian I have Great love For the Blessed Theotokos, But she is the Holy handmaiden Of the Lord...And She Did say when she received the greeting and News Let it will be done according to your word...So she's the perfect example for us to imitate doing the Lords will...I just can't separate The Blessed Theotokos and Christ From each other....So thats why I prefer Icons with Her and the Infant Saviour together.......Or that what Im use to Growing Up......

Even the Holy Icon that show the dormition Of the Holy Virgin [Falling asleep]Jesus is in the Icon Holding the Soul Of The Blessed Theotokos His Holy Mother, depicted as a infant wrapped in white swaddling cloth......



The Infant Jesus Is On Her Lap ...... center of Attention for us ...I don't have or want icons of Mary by Herself....




Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Don't be so snug as to snub the Holy Mother of God! For what Man, does not honor and venerate his own earthly mother? And if Jesus Christ is indeed, fully God and fully Man, then surely our Lord and Savior in all things, in all ages, honors His Holy Mother in all the He is.  This is the economy of God, that through our own human endeavours, God meets us half the way, and carries us forward.  We live in a world of 4 dimensions, of time and space interacting, we have free will to move in any corpeal direction we chose, and yet we are ALWAYS both sustained and limited by the realities of the laws of reality such as Gravity.  Such is our Free Will economy with God, who is the Source and Being of all things, and so we have only the freedom to move within the parameters of God, but what a glorious freedom it is!

And that being said, the miracle of the Incarnation is Divine enough to sustain all things, and so just as God has deigned Himself to take on the flesh, that the Limitless would become Limited, the Eternal would take on a specific time and place, so also He has allowed for the Holy Mother to operate within the parameters of human Free Will.  Just as a mother pushes her babe in the stroller, trodding in the hot sun across the park by the strength and grace of her own human endurance, so to does the Savior allow Himself to be moved by humans, through the Grace given to His Holy Mother.  The economy of God is to cooperate fully within the Free Will of Human decisions, and His Holy Mother is very much a part of this, for it is written to Honor thy Mother and Father with promise.

While Mary was only His Regent while He was a Babe, She carried Him where She willed until He carried Himself (Luke 2:49), nonetheless what man as he grows older cares less for his mother? Do we human men on the earth not grow more fond, more reverent, more respectful of our earthly mothers as we grow into successful men, and as we embrace our own authority, do we not all the more so yield it to the love and honor of our Mothers at any and every cost? So to, even as the Savior is enthroned at the Right Hand of the Father, out of pure love, He will always respect and revere and honor the will and decisions and opinions and thoughts and requests of His and Our Holy Mother.
There is neither Mariology nor Marianology , simply the Love of God which operates through us all, and especially Our Mother.

Stay Blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 07:43:02 PM by stashko » Logged

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