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Author Topic: Antiochian Met. Phillip fires priest for wearing cassock  (Read 16864 times) Average Rating: 5
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« on: November 04, 2010, 09:15:27 AM »

In more Met Philip has lost it news:

On the day the Archdiocesan website officially published the Metropolitan Philip's October 22nd "Implementation" Order, the Metropolitan dismissed Fr. David Moretti of Terre Haute IN from his parish, and the Archdiocese, ostensibly for disobedience, that is, wearing a traditional cassock rather than a clergy suit while in public. The letter announcing the Metropolitan's decision was short and direct.

Read more at http://news-nftu.blogspot.com/2010/11/antiochian-met-phillip-fires-priest-for.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogspot/NFTU+(Notes+From+the+Underground+Orthodox+News)
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2010, 09:23:01 AM »

Long live King Phillip!
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2010, 09:58:19 AM »

 Shocked

Sad to hear.
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2010, 10:06:37 AM »

this makes no sence...I like it better when my priest is out in his cassock and pectoral cross, then in his westernized "priest suit".
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2010, 10:33:18 AM »

Fr David Moretti served as a seminarian in our parish and was much liked & respected. Why such drastic action even if the priest was out of bounds on what would seem to be at most a minor disciplinary infraction?
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2010, 10:38:42 AM »

So how can Abp. Phillip be deposed? Is it possible? Does the Abp. of Antioch have any say in the matter? Does he care?
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2010, 10:41:42 AM »

The Patriarch sanctioned Metr. Philip's authority over the bishops and he is now sole bishop and cannot be disputed.
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2010, 10:43:47 AM »

The Patriarch sanctioned Metr. Philip's authority over the bishops and he is now sole bishop and cannot be disputed.

So we are stuck with him until he voluntarily resigns or dies in office?
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2010, 10:45:53 AM »

Yikes!  If we are going to have a Pope, let's have just one.  A bunch of "Popelettes" seems to be the worst of all worlds.
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 10:48:50 AM »

Can a parish leave the AOCA and join the OCA for example? Can a bishop leave the AOCA for the OCA and take his diocese with him?
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2010, 10:49:13 AM »

The Patriarch sanctioned Metr. Philip's authority over the bishops and he is now sole bishop and cannot be disputed.

So we are stuck with him until he voluntarily resigns or dies in office?
I think this is the case.
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 10:51:42 AM »

Yikes!  If we are going to have a Pope, let's have just one.  A bunch of "Popelettes" seems to be the worst of all worlds.

But isn't that how the Orthodox Church has functioned all along, with each patriarch having ultimate authority over each jurisdiction, i.e. 'popelettes'? How is this case any different?
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 10:57:56 AM »

Yikes!  If we are going to have a Pope, let's have just one.  A bunch of "Popelettes" seems to be the worst of all worlds.

But isn't that how the Orthodox Church has functioned all along, with each patriarch having ultimate authority over each jurisdiction, i.e. 'popelettes'? How is this case any different?
From what I understand from this ongoing controversy re bishops is that to elevate clergy to the office and then demote them to "auxiliaries' should violate canon laws. Nontheless, the patriarch has sanctioned the Metropolitan's authority to do this so it seems to get fuzzy here.
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2010, 11:05:47 AM »

Will Fr. Moretti be able to serve in a different jurisdiction, should he wish to do so?  Huh
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 11:07:45 AM »

The Patriarch sanctioned Metr. Philip's authority over the bishops and he is now sole bishop and cannot be disputed.

So he thinks.

At present I'm advising to keep the powder dry, until Met. Philip gets the signatures he demands on his diktat.  Should that happen, parish councils should start voting, under the Constition/Charter of the Sole Ruled Archdiocese, to call a session of the Archdiocese on the issue.

In the meantime, the original legal recommendations of the trustees have not been addressed.  The lawyers who rubbered stamped Met.Philip's dictated legal memo should be hauled before the bar.

I'm also waiting to see what the Episcopal Assembly has to say about the new situation of its Secretary.
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 11:09:01 AM »

In more Met Philip has lost it news:

On the day the Archdiocesan website officially published the Metropolitan Philip's October 22nd "Implementation" Order, the Metropolitan dismissed Fr. David Moretti of Terre Haute IN from his parish, and the Archdiocese, ostensibly for disobedience, that is, wearing a traditional cassock rather than a clergy suit while in public. The letter announcing the Metropolitan's decision was short and direct.

Read more at http://news-nftu.blogspot.com/2010/11/antiochian-met-phillip-fires-priest-for.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogspot/NFTU+(Notes+From+the+Underground+Orthodox+News)


I think you are unintentionally being misleading here.  If you read the letter I think the second part about
making public comments about Metropolitan Phillip is the real reason.


Quote
"To the Priest David Moretti:
It is with sadness of heart that I write to you today. Because of your disobedience in following the directives I have set forth for liturgical dress and practice as well as public comments you have made disparaging me personally, I am releasing you from your duties as pastor of St. George Church and as a priest of the Antiochian Archdiocese effective December 1, 2010. Please plan to be out of the parish by that date.
In Christ,
+Metropolitan PHILIP"
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 11:09:57 AM »

Will Fr. Moretti be able to serve in a different jurisdiction, should he wish to do so?  Huh

This would be the important issue.
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2010, 11:13:53 AM »

The Patriarch sanctioned Metr. Philip's authority over the bishops and he is now sole bishop and cannot be disputed.
Canon law is confusing.

- the sixth canon of the First Ecumenical Council:
 'If anyone is consecrated bishop without the consent of his metropolitan, the Great
Council declares him not to be a bishop.'

- the twenty-eighth canon of the Fourth Ecumenical Council, the patriarch cannot even place a
bishop in his diocese without the approval of the local metropolitan
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2010, 11:14:53 AM »

Yikes!  If we are going to have a Pope, let's have just one.  A bunch of "Popelettes" seems to be the worst of all worlds.

But isn't that how the Orthodox Church has functioned all along, with each patriarch having ultimate authority over each jurisdiction, i.e. 'popelettes'? How is this case any different?
From what I understand from this ongoing controversy re bishops is that to elevate clergy to the office and then demote them to "auxiliaries' should violate canon laws. Nontheless, the patriarch has sanctioned the Metropolitan's authority to do this so it seems to get fuzzy here.

I do not know that the Patriarchate has ammended its version of the charter and constition, which it was obligated to do, yet.
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2010, 11:15:09 AM »

Yikes!  If we are going to have a Pope, let's have just one.  A bunch of "Popelettes" seems to be the worst of all worlds.

I think His Holiness the Pope of Rome would be a tad envious of His Eminence Metropolitan Philip. The Pope of Rome only has the illusion of ultimate power. If he really had ultimate power, there would be a nice inquisition against clown masses and liturgical dance, or so I would hope.
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2010, 11:18:06 AM »

I believe this has a lot to do with a very misguided view on authority and obedience.

Especially since the 'directive' for Priests not to wear cassocks in public is what can be deemed outside of the Traditional measures of the Church. Personally, I don't have a problem Priests blending in and case can be made that it is more pastorally sound that they do. However, I highly doubt that the cassock was the real reason why His Eminence 'fired' Father David.
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2010, 11:18:28 AM »

The Patriarch sanctioned Metr. Philip's authority over the bishops and he is now sole bishop and cannot be disputed.

So he thinks.

At present I'm advising to keep the powder dry, until Met. Philip gets the signatures he demands on his diktat.  Should that happen, parish councils should start voting, under the Constition/Charter of the Sole Ruled Archdiocese, to call a session of the Archdiocese on the issue.

In the meantime, the original legal recommendations of the trustees have not been addressed.  The lawyers who rubbered stamped Met.Philip's dictated legal memo should be hauled before the bar.

I'm also waiting to see what the Episcopal Assembly has to say about the new situation of its Secretary.
From what I understand were not opponents to the original 2009 action rather isolated by the overall sentiment of a 2009 parish life conference? I just mean that they had a much smaller cheering section in the crowd, not that anything drastic happened. I guess there is going to be fragmentation although I guess we can pray that the Metr will reverse his decision re Fr David Moretti.
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2010, 11:21:48 AM »

I think some could make a case that, at the moment, the AOCA is outside Orthodoxy. Met. Phillip+ doesn't have to reverse anything, like in the military, Bishop Mark, Father David, and the laity are not obliged to be obidient to these directives since one Bishop cannot speak for all. These directive are immoral. All of these decisions should be undertaken through a Sinod under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. 

Bishop Mark and Father David shouldn't have left and the faithful shouldn't be silent. We should be standing up for the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2010, 11:32:02 AM »

I think some could make a case that, at the moment, the AOCA is outside Orthodoxy. Met. Phillip+ doesn't have to reverse anything, like in the military, Bishop Mark, Father David, and the laity are not obliged to be obidient to these directives since one Bishop cannot speak for all. These directive are immoral. All of these decisions should be undertaken through a Sinod under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. 

Bishop Mark and Father David shouldn't have left and the faithful shouldn't be silent. We should be standing up for the Orthodox Church.

I agree. They should stand their ground and require that Mp. Philip come and physically remove them from their diocese.
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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2010, 11:35:20 AM »

I think some could make a case that, at the moment, the AOCA is outside Orthodoxy. Met. Phillip+ doesn't have to reverse anything, like in the military, Bishop Mark, Father David, and the laity are not obliged to be obidient to these directives since one Bishop cannot speak for all. These directive are immoral. All of these decisions should be undertaken through a Sinod under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. 

Bishop Mark and Father David shouldn't have left and the faithful shouldn't be silent. We should be standing up for the Orthodox Church.
I believe that strident opinions and criticism rendered about what many of us feel is bad governance but to say that the AOCA is outside Orthodoxy and undermine the Metr's authority are not for us to consider.
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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2010, 11:37:59 AM »

I think some could make a case that, at the moment, the AOCA is outside Orthodoxy. Met. Phillip+ doesn't have to reverse anything, like in the military, Bishop Mark, Father David, and the laity are not obliged to be obidient to these directives since one Bishop cannot speak for all. These directive are immoral. All of these decisions should be undertaken through a Sinod under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. 

Bishop Mark and Father David shouldn't have left and the faithful shouldn't be silent. We should be standing up for the Orthodox Church.

I agree. They should stand their ground and require that Mp. Philip come and physically remove them from their diocese.

I don't think Met. Philip would come, but I bet that Walid Khalife character wouldn't mind using his muscles.
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« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2010, 11:39:58 AM »

I think some could make a case that, at the moment, the AOCA is outside Orthodoxy. Met. Phillip+ doesn't have to reverse anything, like in the military, Bishop Mark, Father David, and the laity are not obliged to be obidient to these directives since one Bishop cannot speak for all. These directive are immoral. All of these decisions should be undertaken through a Sinod under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  

Bishop Mark and Father David shouldn't have left and the faithful shouldn't be silent. We should be standing up for the Orthodox Church.
I believe that strident opinions and criticism rendered about what many of us feel is bad governance but to say that the AOCA is outside Orthodoxy and undermine the Metr's authority are not for us to consider.

UH what? Of course it is for us to consider. Are we Baptized? Do we commune? Are we the Royal Priesthood? Have we picked up a book on the history of the Church? Anything undertaken by the Bishop and the Sinod is filtered through the Body and accepted. But since this wasn't even undertaken through a Sinod ... you get the picture. The 'authority' that we've gotten used to is one that we read from the Fathers and it is the obedience a monastic has to his/her spiritual father. We're not all monastics. It doesn't mean that we do what we want, but it also doesn't mean that we shut off our brains. This is cleary a bad move and it's not Orthodox.
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« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2010, 11:41:11 AM »

I think some could make a case that, at the moment, the AOCA is outside Orthodoxy. Met. Phillip+ doesn't have to reverse anything, like in the military, Bishop Mark, Father David, and the laity are not obliged to be obidient to these directives since one Bishop cannot speak for all. These directive are immoral. All of these decisions should be undertaken through a Sinod under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.  

Bishop Mark and Father David shouldn't have left and the faithful shouldn't be silent. We should be standing up for the Orthodox Church.

I agree. They should stand their ground and require that Mp. Philip come and physically remove them from their diocese.

I don't think Met. Philip would come, but I bet that Walid Khalife character wouldn't mind using his muscles.



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« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2010, 11:47:02 AM »

Why would an Orthodox priest want to be mistaken for a Roman Catholic priest? 
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« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2010, 11:50:02 AM »

I don't even own one of those collar/clerical shirt combo deals.  And I live in North Carolina. Trust me, it's not that difficult to walk around wearing a cassock.
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« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2010, 11:54:20 AM »

I don't even own one of those collar/clerical shirt combo deals.  And I live in North Carolina. Trust me, it's not that difficult to walk around wearing a cassock.

I honestly never understood the modern obsession that some priests have with "fitting in".  I can certainly understand the directives at the turn of the 20th century.  After all, Americanization was what one did upon immigration.  But in today's climate of multi-culturalism, I don't get why some bishops and priests feel the need to denigrate the wearing of the cassock.

Then again, I'm a guy who often wears a Scottish kilt on a casual basis, so what do I know? Wink
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« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2010, 12:02:42 PM »

I believe this has a lot to do with a very misguided view on authority and obedience.

Especially since the 'directive' for Priests not to wear cassocks in public is what can be deemed outside of the Traditional measures of the Church. Personally, I don't have a problem Priests blending in and case can be made that it is more pastorally sound that they do. However, I highly doubt that the cassock was the real reason why His Eminence 'fired' Father David.
I've never heard of this.  my priest says he alwayse goes out in his cassock, except for taking his wife out oran outing with the kids.
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« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2010, 12:06:42 PM »

I believe this has a lot to do with a very misguided view on authority and obedience.

Especially since the 'directive' for Priests not to wear cassocks in public is what can be deemed outside of the Traditional measures of the Church. Personally, I don't have a problem Priests blending in and case can be made that it is more pastorally sound that they do. However, I highly doubt that the cassock was the real reason why His Eminence 'fired' Father David.
I've never heard of this.  my priest says he alwayse goes out in his cassock, except for taking his wife out oran outing with the kids.
It's more an Antiochian Orthodox Church directive to blend in. I think in some cases the Orthodox Priests and the Bishops themselves end up looking more Roman Catholic than anything else. I've seen pictures of His Eminence where he looks very much like a RC Bishop. Like I said, I don't have a problem with it personally, but I don't believe it was ever something that was so stringent up until now. Or it could be just a cover up for deeper issues. In any case, why get hung up on the externals? I also don't understand the American convert Priests and Bishops who look exactly like Russian Priests in the 19th Century and even run their parishes like this. This also isn't a good thing.
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« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2010, 12:08:59 PM »

I don't even own one of those collar/clerical shirt combo deals.  And I live in North Carolina. Trust me, it's not that difficult to walk around wearing a cassock.

I honestly never understood the modern obsession that some priests have with "fitting in".  I can certainly understand the directives at the turn of the 20th century.  After all, Americanization was what one did upon immigration.  But in today's climate of multi-culturalism, I don't get why some bishops and priests feel the need to denigrate the wearing of the cassock.

well, I have a reason.  my priest was walking home from the store and walked past this center for troubled youth.  they were sitting out there, and saw him and began to throw rocks at uim as he ran away,until a policeman shewed them away. he says that this wouldn't happen if he wasn't so out-sticking in his cassock.  he also got a car, so that helped  Wink

he says that homeless people will randomly come up to him and kiss his hand.  I imagine this is a bit wierd, since they do't even ask for a blessing.
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« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2010, 12:12:08 PM »

I don't even own one of those collar/clerical shirt combo deals.  And I live in North Carolina. Trust me, it's not that difficult to walk around wearing a cassock.

I honestly never understood the modern obsession that some priests have with "fitting in".  I can certainly understand the directives at the turn of the 20th century.  After all, Americanization was what one did upon immigration.  But in today's climate of multi-culturalism, I don't get why some bishops and priests feel the need to denigrate the wearing of the cassock.

well, I have a reason.  my priest was walking home from the store and walked past this center for troubled youth.  they were sitting out there, and saw him and began to throw rocks at uim as he ran away,until a policeman shewed them away. he says that this wouldn't happen if he wasn't so out-sticking in his cassock.  he also got a car, so that helped  Wink

I'm sure if he was wearing a Roman collar, they would have done the same Smiley
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« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2010, 12:12:34 PM »

In the middle of this discussion, please don't forget that clothes don't make the man. We are after all urged to beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. By that I simply mean that you can not, and should not, judge a priest solely by his attire as long as it is conservative and in good taste.
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« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2010, 12:13:45 PM »

In the middle of this discussion, please don't forget that clothes don't make the man. We are after all urged to beware of wolves in sheep's clothing. By that I simply mean that you can not, and should not, judge a priest solely by his attire as long as it is conservative and in good taste.

well said Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2010, 01:18:24 PM »

In this mess, we should be clear about the following;

- Metropolitan Philip's stated reasons for firing Father David Moretti and dumping his wife and children onto the street are simply not true. In other words, the Metropolitan's letter contains untruths but I do not know if +Philip is lying (that is that he knows what he put signature to are untruths).  Father Moretti was indeed criticized for being out out of uniform but he immediately repented and restarted to wear the Roman Catholic/Anglican garb that the Metropolitan favors. I believe this happened while Bishop Mark was still the ruling bishop. Father Moretti also claims that he did not publicly disparage the Metropolitan. I believe him and I do not believe the Metropolitan who has been known to lie to his own Patriarch.

- Metropolitan Philip appears to be moving against those priests in the Toledo Diocese who had sided with Bishop Mark in trying to become better Orthodox (more prayer and services/less gambling and belly dancing). These good priests stood out as a silent but public rebuke to those priests who did not want to be led by a convert bishop (that is a non-Arab), who did want to follow common Orthodox praxis, and who did not want their crooked financial practices exposed. In any sane world, you would think that these bad shepherds, wolves in sheep's clothing, would be put out of business by the ecclesiastic or secular authorities. Not so in the Philip's Wonderland; these bad apples are +Philip's buddies, sychophants and financiers. So, +Philip is punishing Father Moretti, the priest being transferred from Sylvania, and may be even others, to placate those bad apples.

- In all of this rhubarb, we must not lose sight of the fact that +Philip is the arch-pastor of the two priests, their families and the affected parishes. He has failed to live up to the standards of a loving and just arch-pastor. He has revealed himself to be a vindictive, little man, a despot that would make a Medieval Pope proud. Actually, I must retract that last part; it is an insult to compare the Metropolitan to a Roman Pope, as I am afraid I have done too many times already. +Philip makes any Pope a virtuous and humble man in comparison.
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« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2010, 01:35:27 PM »

I don't even own one of those collar/clerical shirt combo deals.  And I live in North Carolina. Trust me, it's not that difficult to walk around wearing a cassock.

When I was a Franciscan, we could not wear our habits outside of the friary, so I was forced to have a clerical suit.  I hated wearing that dog collar.  and I will never wear another as long as I live.  Now I know what my poor dogs go through, so they don't wear dog collars either...they wear harnesses, except in the winter when they are wearing their coats (my dogs have very thin fur and the older one shakes terribly when it falls below 70 degrees.  Besides if I wanted to look like a Protestant or a Roman Catholic clergyman, then I would have joined either of their churches.
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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2010, 01:44:36 PM »


I am from Michigan and have been witness to some of the odd behavior of the Antiochian clergy who penned the first letter that put this whole thing in motion.

From what I gathered, it simply seems to me that the Antiochian clergy wish to "modernize" Orthodoxy.  I actually sat in a class for weeks that was taught by one of the priests.  Countless times "Slavic" Orthodoxy was ridiculed and called fanatical. 

At first the references seemed petty, but, after weeks of it, I actually found myself having to defend what I thought (and still do) as proper Orthodox practices. 

It isn't even just that priests should wear cassocks, or that they should have no beards.  All of this is between the hierarchs and clergy.

However, when he began disparaging the Slavs (Russians, Ukrainians, etc) for their fanaticism, it was a bit much.  We pray for catechumens.  We actually yell out "the doors, the doors!", we even CLOSE the Royal Gates - how rude is that of us, and it seemed the worst thing was that we stand in church.  I was told that if I come to his church and wish to stand, I need to park myself in the back so that I do not ruin the view for those who are sitting.  We were called "Super Orthodox!" which I am certain was meant to offend, but, didn't...as he was of the opinion we stuck too closely to rules, traditions, etc.  We need to change with the times.  We need to be more flexible.

I personally, love the Orthodox Church just the way it is.  It will not die if it does not "modernize".  However, it will get ill if it does.  The Church has been in existence for a long time.  Can you imagine what would be left of it, if it changed and morphed to suit each consecutive generation?

The fact that Orthodoxy changes little (only when necessary) is what draws people to it.

Why fix it, if it isn't broken?

May the Lord have mercy on everyone involved, and preserve Orthodoxy and the faithful!  This is all just a sad mark on the Church.  The devil does not sleep.


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« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2010, 01:52:23 PM »


I am from Michigan and have been witness to some of the odd behavior of the Antiochian clergy who penned the first letter that put this whole thing in motion.

From what I gathered, it simply seems to me that the Antiochian clergy wish to "modernize" Orthodoxy.  I actually sat in a class for weeks that was taught by one of the priests.  Countless times "Slavic" Orthodoxy was ridiculed and called fanatical. 

At first the references seemed petty, but, after weeks of it, I actually found myself having to defend what I thought (and still do) as proper Orthodox practices. 

It isn't even just that priests should wear cassocks, or that they should have no beards.  All of this is between the hierarchs and clergy.

However, when he began disparaging the Slavs (Russians, Ukrainians, etc) for their fanaticism, it was a bit much.  We pray for catechumens.  We actually yell out "the doors, the doors!", we even CLOSE the Royal Gates - how rude is that of us, and it seemed the worst thing was that we stand in church.  I was told that if I come to his church and wish to stand, I need to park myself in the back so that I do not ruin the view for those who are sitting.  We were called "Super Orthodox!" which I am certain was meant to offend, but, didn't...as he was of the opinion we stuck too closely to rules, traditions, etc.  We need to change with the times.  We need to be more flexible.

I personally, love the Orthodox Church just the way it is.  It will not die if it does not "modernize".  However, it will get ill if it does.  The Church has been in existence for a long time.  Can you imagine what would be left of it, if it changed and morphed to suit each consecutive generation?

The fact that Orthodoxy changes little (only when necessary) is what draws people to it.

Why fix it, if it isn't broken?

May the Lord have mercy on everyone involved, and preserve Orthodoxy and the faithful!  This is all just a sad mark on the Church.  The devil does not sleep.




Just to be clear for everybody, are referring to the Detroit area clergy, the +Philip Country Club, that I had referred to as the bad apples? They are the ones who circulated that gloating letter against Bishop Mark.
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« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2010, 02:00:16 PM »

"Besides if I wanted to look like a Protestant or a Roman Catholic clergyman, then I would have joined either of their churches."

Well put Father.  Roman Catholic priests (except Eastern Catholic priests) do not dress in an Orthoodx cassock taking on Orthodox appearance. 
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« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2010, 02:10:53 PM »

I think in the midst of all the conversation it is good to keep in mind that clergy dress HAS changed throughout the centuries.  Cassocks used to be what EVERYONE wore, what WOMEN wore, and even what priests wore (according to some liturgical history). 

It has not been ONE consistent thing, every century, but rather something that distinguishes clergy from the rest of the laos (people).  This point however, shouldn't be taken to extremes, on any end. 
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« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2010, 02:13:21 PM »

This whole issue is very sad and puzzling to me.  I just hope there is some more reasonable explanation that we haven't yet heard.

Speaking as a convert, I can understand mandating adherence to tradition.  I can understand allowing a relaxation in a practice for pastoral reasons.  But mandating non-adherence to tradition?  Huh  It sends a very confusing message, IMO.
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« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2010, 02:16:52 PM »

I don't think we should get too hung up on the externals since they're usually cover for deeper problems. Besides, I don't believe most Antiochian parishes ridicule Slavic Traditions. If so, I would have been long gone, long ago. My parish actually embraces all culture.
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"Men do not differ much about what things they will call evils; they differ enormously about what evils they will call excusable." - G.K. Chesterton
Tags: Despotism Antiochian vestments clerical dress ecumenism AOA Modernism 
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