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Author Topic: Has there or will there ever be Catholic moderation on OC.net?  (Read 6741 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: November 02, 2010, 04:55:24 PM »

It seems to me that the Catholics here should take a page out of Deacon Lance's book.  Post only that which is factual and do not pretend that we are all friends and try to get chatty.  Ignore the provocations and keep posting what is real as succinctly as possible.

I don't necessarily agree with the, "do not pretend that we are all friends and try to get chatty" part.  We can talk about lots of non-theological topics without being divided on the RC-EO line (like sports, movies, etc.); and even on a lot of theology, we agree 100%.  But on the topics where we disagree, we shouldn't (a) get offended when people tell us that we disagree, and (b) take it personally when people critique beliefs on a discussion forum, where things are discussed.  If it's an ad hominem, tell the mods and it will be rectified; otherwise, let's discuss issues and subjects and agree that since this is a discussion forum that discussion of topics and issues isn't personal and shouldn't be taken personally.
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« Reply #91 on: November 02, 2010, 06:00:35 PM »


Oh !  Grin



But it was a eastern christian sub -forum for orthodox and eastern catholics ,Roman Catholics like you would come in and try to put us in our place by showing us the error of our ways, but to no avail ,so things got heated , Plus a few Catholics saw the errors of there belief and converted to the Orthodox Faith ..... Grin

Stashko, if you were one of the banned Orthodox, I can easily see why they would have done it.
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« Reply #92 on: November 02, 2010, 06:05:38 PM »

Since it is apparently my work product that is being critiqued here, I feel I should respond in some way, but it's not going to be tonight.  I am hopped up on cold medicine in an effort to stave off a wicked attack of sinusitis that had to happen, of course, while I was on a mini-vacation with my dear wife.  I am starting to feel better and, when I do and have the mental acuity to respond, I will.

I just wanted to say I think you do a great job moderating.
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« Reply #93 on: November 02, 2010, 06:10:44 PM »

And I have to say, compared to some other forums I have at times frequented, this forum is extremely mild. If you don't believe me take a look at CARM and Fish Eaters.  Wink
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« Reply #94 on: November 02, 2010, 06:44:34 PM »

Since it is apparently my work product that is being critiqued here, I feel I should respond in some way, but it's not going to be tonight.  I am hopped up on cold medicine in an effort to stave off a wicked attack of sinusitis that had to happen, of course, while I was on a mini-vacation with my dear wife.  I am starting to feel better and, when I do and have the mental acuity to respond, I will.

I just wanted to say I think you do a great job moderating.

Agreed. It can definitely be one of the more explosive sections to moderate.
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« Reply #95 on: November 02, 2010, 06:58:29 PM »

And I have to say, compared to some other forums I have at times frequented, this forum is extremely mild. If you don't believe me take a look at CARM and Fish Eaters.  Wink
Fish Eaters are a Traditionalists group, but yes, things there can be a bit in your face, so to speak. Ironically, I came across this prayer at a Latin Mass website to be said before logging onto the internet:

A Prayer before logging onto the internet

Amighty and eternal God,
who created us in Thy image
and bade us to seek after all that is good, true and beautiful
especially in the divine person of Thy Only-begotten Son, and our Lord Jesus Christ,
grant, we beseech Thee,
that through the intercession of Saint Isidore, Bishop and Doctor,
during our journeys through the internet
we will direct our hands and eyes only
to that which is pleasing to Thee
and treat with charity and patience all
those souls whom we encounter
Through Christ our Lord. Amen.
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« Reply #96 on: November 02, 2010, 08:00:27 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
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« Reply #97 on: November 02, 2010, 08:01:45 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
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« Reply #98 on: November 02, 2010, 08:04:58 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
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« Reply #99 on: November 02, 2010, 08:28:52 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
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« Reply #100 on: November 02, 2010, 08:37:46 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.

Oh, and if we are allegedly "guests" here, then what kind of party in hell did we stumble upon?Huh  laugh
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« Reply #101 on: November 02, 2010, 08:41:34 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.

Oh, and if we are allegedly "guests" here, then what kind of party in hell did we stumble upon?Huh  laugh
Haha. I gotcha. I have been told before, that some moderation here goes on behind the scene. But I don't know. I guess what it comes down to is that this is an EO forum, so we are here playing by their rules. They will choose how they want to represent the EO faith to world.
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« Reply #102 on: November 02, 2010, 08:47:25 PM »

Regarding having both EO and OO mods, that probably comes, at least in part, from the original founders of the site being both EO and OO (ok, I think some were just on their way to being EO). So there has always been this EO/OO combination, even in the highest ranks of the administration of the forum. So, while there have been Catholics such as Lubeltri, Papist, Schultz (previous), Jakub, etc. around for a while, and also members of other groups (e.g. the Anglicans Keble and Ebor), these groups weren't part of the original "byzantine" or "eastern" idea behind the forum.

So I guess a number of things I said in this post was incorrect... sorry about that...  Lips Sealed
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« Reply #103 on: November 02, 2010, 08:56:02 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.

Oh, and if we are allegedly "guests" here, then what kind of party in hell did we stumble upon?Huh  laugh
Haha. I gotcha. I have been told before, that some moderation here goes on behind the scene. But I don't know. I guess what it comes down to is that this is an EO forum, so we are here playing by their rules. They will choose how they want to represent the EO faith to world.

I think it is more than that, and I speak from my own bitter experiences trying to herd cats.

I think that the management/moderators do indeed speak to Orthodox members here and ask them to tone down their rhetoric.  They do so publicly as well.  But they are, ultimately,  ignored.  And so they are faced with either having to MUTE or BAN a repeat offender, and that does not happen often to any of us, Orthodox or Catholic.  These are never things that you want to do with any member of a group.  That is not the purpose of operating a discussion group of any kind.

Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.

What you have the opportunity to practice is detachment, which is what we are instructed to do, if we dare to dream of ever inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven...eh?   And in that state of detachment then we have the opportunity to practice true Christian charity, which means taking care of the other first, regardless of how it feels.  That is always the part that the social justice folks miss...How to practice love and detachment simultaneously.... Smiley.....Do you see what a marvelous opportunity our Orthodox brothers and sisters offer us here?

M.
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« Reply #104 on: November 02, 2010, 09:09:27 PM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.

Oh, and if we are allegedly "guests" here, then what kind of party in hell did we stumble upon?Huh  laugh
Haha. I gotcha. I have been told before, that some moderation here goes on behind the scene. But I don't know. I guess what it comes down to is that this is an EO forum, so we are here playing by their rules. They will choose how they want to represent the EO faith to world.

I think it is more than that, and I speak from my own bitter experiences trying to herd cats.

I think that the management/moderators do indeed speak to Orthodox members here and ask them to tone down their rhetoric.  They do so publicly as well.  But they are, ultimately,  ignored.  And so they are faced with either having to MUTE or BAN a repeat offender, and that does not happen often to any of us, Orthodox or Catholic.  These are never things that you want to do with any member of a group.  That is not the purpose of operating a discussion group of any kind.

Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.

What you have the opportunity to practice is detachment, which is what we are instructed to do, if we dare to dream of ever inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven...eh?   And in that state of detachment then we have the opportunity to practice true Christian charity, which means taking care of the other first, regardless of how it feels.  That is always the part that the social justice folks miss...How to practice love and detachment simultaneously.... Smiley.....Do you see what a marvelous opportunity our Orthodox brothers and sisters offer us here?

M.
You are right. And indeed that level of detachment is difficult.
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« Reply #105 on: November 02, 2010, 09:17:23 PM »


Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.


I know that you are speaking from some bitter experiences, both here and on your home list, but there are times when the Orthodox do have to take out the shillelagh and rattle it.  I recall the awful time when you were insisting that the Orthodox allow abortion and another time when you were insisting that an Orthodox second marriage is non-sacramental <shudder>.

But friendships can be formed between Catholics and Orthodox.    For example I consider Stanley123 a friend. He and I have known one another through some tumultuous times on CAF and also here on OC.net. So I do not share your pessimism about friendships.
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« Reply #106 on: November 02, 2010, 09:43:08 PM »



Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.



M.

I would have to disagree.  My two longest friendships (in real life) have been with Roman Catholics, going back to my hardcore Evangelical days in high school.  We've had many discussions/arguments on religious topics over the years, but nothing that would ever approach the level of friendship-breaking. 

I would be much the poorer if my friendship demanded that all agree with me, indeed I probably wouldn't have any friends at all.

I certainly hope that not every Roman Catholic that posts here thinks that we could never be friends just because we have disagreements on issues of ecclesiology.  We might not be able to partake of each others sacraments, but outside of Church I see no reason for not sharing a glass of wine.
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« Reply #107 on: November 02, 2010, 09:46:29 PM »



Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.



M.

I would have to disagree.  My two longest friendships (in real life) have been with Roman Catholics, going back to my hardcore Evangelical days in high school.  We've had many discussions/arguments on religious topics over the years, but nothing that would ever approach the level of friendship-breaking. 

I would be much the poorer if my friendship demanded that all agree with me, indeed I probably wouldn't have any friends at all.

I certainly hope that not every Roman Catholic that posts here thinks that we could never be friends just because we have disagreements on issues of ecclesiology.  We might not be able to partake of each others sacraments, but outside of Church I see no reason for not sharing a glass of wine.
I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.
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« Reply #108 on: November 02, 2010, 09:59:57 PM »



Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.



M.

I would have to disagree.  My two longest friendships (in real life) have been with Roman Catholics, going back to my hardcore Evangelical days in high school.  We've had many discussions/arguments on religious topics over the years, but nothing that would ever approach the level of friendship-breaking.  

I would be much the poorer if my friendship demanded that all agree with me, indeed I probably wouldn't have any friends at all.

I certainly hope that not every Roman Catholic that posts here thinks that we could never be friends just because we have disagreements on issues of ecclesiology.  We might not be able to partake of each others sacraments, but outside of Church I see no reason for not sharing a glass of wine.
I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.

I must have had some extremely tolerant friends, then, back in my "Death Cookie" days  Wink
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« Reply #109 on: November 02, 2010, 10:29:26 PM »

I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.

It is an unfortunate circumstance of melding cultural memory (something the Easterners specialize in) with legitimate concerns with a dash of irrational hatred.  I really do wish that many of the virulent anti-Catholics could just drop the rhetoric, state their concerns, and then be happy enough sitting down for tea with y'all.
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« Reply #110 on: November 02, 2010, 10:59:34 PM »

I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.

It is an unfortunate circumstance of melding cultural memory (something the Easterners specialize in) with legitimate concerns with a dash of irrational hatred.  I really do wish that many of the virulent anti-Catholics could just drop the rhetoric, state their concerns, and then be happy enough sitting down for tea with y'all.

Dear Father,

I am not suggesting that Catholics and Orthodox cannot be friends, any more than I would seek to ban mixed marriages!!

I am suggesting that in every case it will be difficult for someone in that dyad or cluster at some point.

And I am also saying that with extreme cases of disdain, it is impossible to be truly friends.

I am primarily cautioning my fellow Catholics to be prepared to be hurt on this Forum, and then be happy when it does not happen.

Mary
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« Reply #111 on: November 02, 2010, 11:38:24 PM »

I will continue to celebrate with any and all Christians as much as I can....
Even Mormons?

Bold.

And what is his criteria for determining what constitutes genuine Christianity?

We should humble ourselves and act as the servant. I would require no more of a christian than Christ did to the man on the cross next to him who Jesus promised would be in paradise with him that day.
This man simply admitted he was a sinner and acknowledged Jesus as the son of God who would have his Kingdom in Heaven.  

The point I made was for Catholics which is what this thread was about and I gave a description of why I was saying that as far as communion in any church means they believe as we all do in Christ as the Savior who died for our sins.The divisions exist because everyone wants to puff themselves up and act like the Pharisees who thought they were in charge as opposed to God.

Luke 23 NIV

39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!”

40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.f”

43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

I believe that we should act as if we have more in common than not as most of us Christians believe in the same Jesus Christ who died for our sins. Too many time I here bickering and discord over minor issues . Or at least we can find some common ground before we act as if we are enemies. I see this also that many are working together towards a common goal but I point out discord more because that is what bothers me as being wrong or that we are taught to do it by leaders.
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« Reply #112 on: November 03, 2010, 12:26:22 AM »

another time when you were insisting that an Orthodox second marriage is non-sacramental <shudder>.

The Pedalion

The 15 Canons of Neoceasarea

CANON VII
No Presbyter is permitted to dine at the weddjng of persons marrying a
second time. For, if the plight of a digamist is one demanding repentance,
what will be that of a presbyter who is lending his consent to the wedding by
attending it?

Interpretation
The present Canon decrees that no presbyter shall sit down and eat
dinner at the wedding of a digamist, since the digamist is burdened with
sin and under the penalty of a sentence. If, therefore, the priest should sit
down and eat, he thereby shows that he is offering his good will and congratulations
himself to the one who is burdened with sin and condemnation
on account of that wedding. For the first marriage, according to St.
Gregory the Theologian, serves as the law. For there is but one conjugation,
both of the wife to the husband and of the husband to the wife,
laid down as legislation through the divine utterance and presence at the
wedding held in Cana. That is why the parties to a first marriage, being
uncondemned, are nuptially crowned and partake of the divine Mysteries
(and see the Footnote to c. XIII of the 6th). But the second marriage is a
concession. For use of it is allowed only as a matter of concession and
accomodation. Because even though St. Paul did say concerning widows,
'but if they cannot remain continent, let them marry" (1 Cor. 7:9), St.
Chrysostom, in interpreting this passage, declares that St. Paul said this
by way of permission, and not by way of command (cf. I Cor. 7:6)
the same manner, that is to say, in which he permitted persons married for
the first time in their life to indulge in frequent intercourse on account of
their incontinence). But if he did say it by way of permission, it is manifest
that such a marriage is neither reasonable nor free from condemnation,
but that it is under condemnation and is in the nature of a sin. Hence
according to c. 1V of St, Basil the parties to such a marriage are barred
from the divine Mysteries for a year or two, while, according to c. II of
Nicephoms, they are not even entitled to a nuptial coronation. That is
why God-bearing Ignatius said in his epistle to the Antiochenes: "One
woman to any one man; not many women to any one man, was given in
creation." Clement of Alexandria (otherwise known as Clement Stromateus)
says: "One who marries a second time is not sinning according to the
covenant (or testament), but he is not fulfilling the demands of evangelical
perfection. It does him heavenly glory if he keeps the marriage tie sundered
by death untainted by gladly obeying the economy.''

But why is it that a priest is not consenting to the condemned marriage of digamists
when he blesses it, but does so when he attends and eats at the wedding? To this
question one may reply that the church ceremony and blessing are something that
a priest is obliged to perform as a matter of necessity. because without these accessories
the parties to this marriage by permission cannot be yoked together. Hence,
inasmuch as the priest does this merely as a matter of downright necessity, he is
not consenting to it. But when it comes to attending and eating at the wedding, besides
not being necessary, this is in addition a sign of joy. Hence anyone that does
this is showing, in a way, that he too congratulates, or shares in the joy of the one
committing such a sinful act. Though it is true that Zonaras says that Patriarchs and
Metropolitans have been seen eating together with twice-married emperors and
kings, yet the fact remains that such occasions are few and far between, and are
outside the regular scheme of strictness, and consequently cannot be made a law
of the Church. For Nicetas of Hcraclcia. too, in his c. I say that it has become the
custom for presbyters who performed the church ceremonies connected with second
marriages not to attend the dinner. So much for that Canon. But. although Nicetas
himself says that strict custom is opposed to nuptial coronations in connection with
second marriages, yet the custom of the Great Church is not to observe such ricetics;
they arc outside of canonical strictness. Wherefore we ought not even to imitate
them. For the crowns placed upon the heads of persons getting married are symbols
of victory, according to St. Chrysostom (Homily 9 on the First Epistle to Timothy),
signifying that after becoming invincible they are thus being yoked together, and
that they have not been overcome by pleasure, by which digamists appear to have
been conquered and on this account have become unworthy of the crowns. Note.
however, that we ought not to abhor and shun digamists. For this was one of the failings of the Novatians that characterized them as unorthodox, according to c. VIII ofthe first Ec. C. Instead, we ought to communicate with them, according to the same
authority, notwithstanding that divine Chrysostom does state that many persons used
to make fun of people who married a second time, and that many persons used to shun
them and hate their friendship (page 265 of Volume VI. in his discourse on Virginity).
But that priests ought not to eat with those attending the wedding of digamists is asserted
also by Nicetas the Chartophylax of Thessalonica (page 350 of Juris Graeco-
Romani).
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« Reply #113 on: November 03, 2010, 12:44:19 AM »



Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.  That carries with it the same dangers as mixed marriages; you will get hurt at some point and you will hurt the other, with your own words or actions, at some point.  As long as we are in schism, it cannot be otherwise.



M.

I would have to disagree.  My two longest friendships (in real life) have been with Roman Catholics, going back to my hardcore Evangelical days in high school.  We've had many discussions/arguments on religious topics over the years, but nothing that would ever approach the level of friendship-breaking. 

I would be much the poorer if my friendship demanded that all agree with me, indeed I probably wouldn't have any friends at all.

I certainly hope that not every Roman Catholic that posts here thinks that we could never be friends just because we have disagreements on issues of ecclesiology.  We might not be able to partake of each others sacraments, but outside of Church I see no reason for not sharing a glass of wine.
I think that what Elijahmaria is concerned with is the extreme anti-Catholicism we see in many EOs. It would be hard for me to be friends with some one who believed the CC to be the whore of babylon, and that the Pope is the anti-christ.

Okay, but this is the Internet. When has anything on the Internet been balanced? When has a forum been dedicated to truth, but preoccupied with niceties? You say it's extreme anti-(Roman) Catholicism. I say it's just because you're in a place that is dedicated to hashing out things like differences between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy and things like that. You are ascribing something to people from your own very limited experience of them. You only know them on this site in narrow conversations about topics, many of which go nowhere because most people are not even on the same page, not having either the same experiences or understandings, making references to people and statements in other threads, on other forums, which have little to do with the topic at hand except to various partisans on the thread or in the mind of the singular beholder. Cut people some slack, man. People come on waaaaay stronger online than they do in person, so your perception of them is skewed.
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« Reply #114 on: November 03, 2010, 12:53:15 AM »

Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.
No one forces you to stay here. If you feel persecuted, you can quit. Surprisingly not everyone from your confession feels that way, so maybe it's not about "the disrespect torwards the Catholics" but reactions of particular members?
There's more than a few of us who feel persecuted. I just happen to be the one shouting the loudest right now. Plus, why would I leave after being persecuted? If anything, that makes me want to stay all the more, lest you guys have something to boast about (i.e. Woohoo! We ran off another evil Roman heretic!).

You remind me of Orthodox converts who appoint themselves the defenders of Orthodoxy. God doesn't need us to defend anything. He's very capable doing it Himself. Concentrate on better things, brother.
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« Reply #115 on: November 03, 2010, 12:57:01 AM »

You remind me of Orthodox converts who appoint themselves the defenders of Orthodoxy. God doesn't need us to defend anything. He's very capable doing it Himself. Concentrate on better things, brother.
Why don't you tell your comrade ialmisry that? He is certainly a greater troll than I could ever be.
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« Reply #116 on: November 03, 2010, 01:05:59 AM »

The Pedalion

The 15 Canons of Neoceasarea

CANON VII

Canon IX of this Council is a real doozy.  It requires the permanent suspension of nearly all the Catholic priests, among my friends and family circle,  with whom I have discussed such intimate matters at dinner parties.  Whether or not it invalidates their celebration of the Mass, I do not know

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« Reply #117 on: November 03, 2010, 01:08:58 AM »

You remind me of Orthodox converts who appoint themselves the defenders of Orthodoxy. God doesn't need us to defend anything. He's very capable doing it Himself. Concentrate on better things, brother.
Why don't you tell your comrade ialmisry that? He is certainly a greater troll than I could ever be.

Brother, seriously, this resentment will do you no spiritual good. You complain of bad feelings from some Orthodox (I, personally, bear you no ill will), and yet you perpetuate bad feeling with many of your comments. I hope that your soul can come to better peace.
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« Reply #118 on: November 03, 2010, 01:11:09 AM »

I just happen to be the one shouting the loudest right now. Plus, why would I leave after being persecuted? If anything, that makes me want to stay all the more, lest you guys have something to boast about (i.e. Woohoo! We ran off another evil Roman heretic!).

Got much of a martyr complex there?
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« Reply #119 on: November 03, 2010, 02:51:43 AM »

We need a Orthodox Moderator On catholic Answers Forum ...
I think that's right. CAF does need an Orthodox section and an Orthodox moderator. I would vote for that. However, I am not sure that stashko would be the best candidate for the job of moderation on CAF.
On the other hand, I personally would not see any problem with having a R. Catholic moderator on the Orthodox board, at least for a section with dealt with Catholicism and how it relates to Orthodoxy, provided that that particular moderator had a record of posts which were generally fair and balanced.
Why would a Catholic site, that is supported by Catholics, and was created for the defense of the Catholic site, need an Eastern Orthodox section, moderated by an non-Catholic?
For the same reason that this site needs a RC (or EC) moderator and a Catholic section of the forum.
Interesting idea. I guess, being a guest here doesn't bother me too much. If certain moderators choose to moderate in an unfair manner, well that is on their consciences.
It isn't so much that I feel that certain actions by moderators have been directly unfair to me and other Catholics on the forum, but rather their inaction by failing to silence certain polemical trolls who like to take jabs at Catholicism and also happen to be Eastern (or Oriental) Orthodox. That is what I feel is wrong and should change. I have submitted a complaint regarding such things but it seems, at least so far, I have been completely ignored.
The silence of the moderator team is not evidence that we have ignored your complaints. We have heard your complaints but found nothing in them truly worthy of action. If the person you complain about most, Ialmisry, attacks you personally, be assured that we will be on him as quickly as mice on cheese. But in one of the more recent incidents where you complained about him, all he did was speak of your chief bishop and his office in ways that, though accurate, were rhetorically charged and revealing of his anti-Roman bias. The fact that you found this profoundly insulting does not make what he did inappropriate; it just means you were insulted, which says just as much about you as it does about Isa. IIRC, others of your RC co-religionists were just as insulted as you by his polemics, but they are now on THIS thread voicing their disagreement with your assertion that we need a separate Catholic section moderated by a Catholic poster. Why do you think that is?

Papist is right. Why would an Orthodox Christian site, that is supported by Orthodox and created for the propagation and defense of the Orthodox faith, need a Catholic section moderated by a Catholic? Wouldn't that just allow people of another faith that very few Orthodox consider to be fully part of Christ's Body the Church (unlike the OO, whom many of us EO deem fully Orthodox) to take over a part of our Orthodox forum? Why would we do that? That makes no sense. Not to insinuate that RC's are nothing but predators, which I know to NOT be the least bit true, but the metaphor that comes to mind is that of letting the foxes guard the hen house. You have plenty of places online where you can discuss Catholic issues with your Catholic brothers and sisters without having to take over a part of our forum for that purpose.
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« Reply #120 on: November 03, 2010, 07:46:37 AM »


Best thing to do, as I've noted already, is not get your hopes up about making friends among the Orthodox.

I know that you are speaking from some bitter experiences, both here and on your home list, but there are times when the Orthodox do have to take out the shillelagh and rattle it.  I recall the awful time when you were insisting that the Orthodox allow abortion and another time when you were insisting that an Orthodox second marriage is non-sacramental <shudder>.

But friendships can be formed between Catholics and Orthodox.    For example I consider Stanley123 a friend. He and I have known one another through some tumultuous times on CAF and also here on OC.net. So I do not share your pessimism about friendships.

I would have to agree with Father Ambrose, whom I consider an old and very dear friend. He and I have been through a great many experiences together (including proving the point that it is possible for both Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox to be banned, nearly simultaneously, from a Catholic site Cheesy ).

And I have no problem acknowledging that there are several Orthodox posters here whom I consider friends and whom I hope would feel the same way towards me.  Father Anastasios and I go back to a time before he, Phil/Mor Ephrem, and Robert initiated this forum. There are any number of others, some still here, others no longer active, with whom I share an equally long history, here, at ByzCath, or both, as well as at CAF (before 'the purge' there), and some at TAW.

There are also members here with whom I've butted heads - not so much here, but elsewhere - but for whom I have considerable respect - and hope they feel the same way toward me, albeit we have sometimes caused each others teeth to ache (with all due respect to my brothers, Isa and Stashko come to mind Cheesy )

I'd suggest that the ability to co-exist in an environment such as this is less about which temple the Mod worships in than about respect for one another and the ability to recognize and accept that one should expect others to be committed to their own beliefs, as each of us is to his or hers own beliefs. There are significant differences between the zeal that is a mark of commitment to one's faith and zealotry, which is rarely becoming.

To very closely paraphrase the words of an old friend, who moderated some of us at CAF in days now long past, "it is acceptable to discuss, dialogue, question, disagree with, and debate the doctrines and dogmas of our respective Churches. However, all such exchanges should be civil and charitable, consistent with the expectations of discourse in polite society. It is acceptable to question the doctrine or dogma of another's faith, but never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual's beliefs."

Finally, it good to think about the very likely prospect that we might someday be called to answer for what we did, in this life, to bring about an end to disunity between and among the Churches, which one cannot imagine is pleasing to He Whom we each profess as Lord and to remember, also that it is not ours to judge others, that right belongs to He who will ultimately judge us as well.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #121 on: November 03, 2010, 08:42:06 AM »


The silence of the moderator team is not evidence that we have ignored your complaints. We have heard your complaints but found nothing in them truly worthy of action. If the person you complain about most, Ialmisry, attacks you personally, be assured that we will be on him as quickly as mice on cheese. But in one of the more recent incidents where you complained about him, all he did was speak of your chief bishop and his office in ways that, though accurate, were rhetorically charged and revealing of his anti-Roman bias.

Dear PtA,

Here is the crux of much of Wyatt's distress.  

IF a man calls me an ugly dog of a woman, and I AM, in sad truth, an ugly dog of a woman, there is some sense of truth and justice in me that will allow me to be hurt by the assessment but I will not become angered by it, for it is just and true.

IF the same man calls me a liar, and I am NOT a liar, and I work very hard to not be a liar, then I will not be hurt by the assessment, but in truth and justice I will find myself in a state of anger over the assessment.

What Ialmisry does is offer, for whatever cause or motive, a false image of the Catholic Church and presses it and by pressing it does a grave injustice to all Catholics on this board, and also all Orthodox as well.

The reason I do not press for a Catholic space on this board, operated by a Catholic or group of Catholics, is that I really do not care to waste my energy pressing a futile request for real, not personal, justice.  In point of fact, I do agree that there could be far better justice done on this board to the truth of Catholic teaching, but emotions and false attributions prevail more often than not.  I simply think that those of us who can survive on the Forum long enough can do as much to redress that injustice, as any Catholic moderator can do.  It is, again, not a matter of feelings, but a matter of basic justice and attention to the truth that motivates my presence here and how I approach all members of the Forum.  I hope that my fellow Catholics continue to pursue that opportunity, and I am grateful to the owners for making that possible.

Mary
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« Reply #122 on: November 03, 2010, 12:21:55 PM »

^ I remaine on this forum because it continues to strengthen my faith in the Catholic Church, and because, over the years, there are some people here who I have grown to respect. There are also some people who just get online so that they can be all around jerks. LOL. It's a mixed bag.
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« Reply #123 on: November 03, 2010, 01:11:33 PM »

^ I remaine on this forum because it continues to strengthen my faith in the Catholic Church
This is certainly true for me as well. After some of the conversations I have had here, I am more sure than ever that I am in the right Church.
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« Reply #124 on: November 03, 2010, 01:50:15 PM »

Realistically I think it's a waste of time to expect "justice" or "fairness" on ANY Internet discussion board, on ANY topic.

I still have fond memories of the flame wars that would erupt on the old "Long Hair Site" between those who advocated the occasional "split end trim" and those who opposed any sharp objects touching one's locks at all.

Fun!!  We even had our own version of stashko, an unrepentant long-hair who insisted that the very EXISTENCE of barber shops was a sign of Satanic influence.
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« Reply #125 on: November 03, 2010, 01:57:23 PM »

Realistically I think it's a waste of time to expect "justice" or "fairness" on ANY Internet discussion board, on ANY topic.

I still have fond memories of the flame wars that would erupt on the old "Long Hair Site" between those who advocated the occasional "split end trim" and those who opposed any sharp objects touching one's locks at all.

Fun!!  We even had our own version of stashko, an unrepentant long-hair who insisted that the very EXISTENCE of barber shops was a sign of Satanic influence.

haha!!! I have to agree with you. There will never be absolute "fairness" on an online forum.
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« Reply #126 on: November 03, 2010, 01:57:53 PM »

Realistically I think it's a waste of time to expect "justice" or "fairness" on ANY Internet discussion board, on ANY topic.

I still have fond memories of the flame wars that would erupt on the old "Long Hair Site" between those who advocated the occasional "split end trim" and those who opposed any sharp objects touching one's locks at all.

Fun!!  We even had our own version of stashko, an unrepentant long-hair who insisted that the very EXISTENCE of barber shops was a sign of Satanic influence.
Do you think stashko sports a mullet? Smiley
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« Reply #127 on: November 03, 2010, 02:08:06 PM »

^ I remaine on this forum because it continues to strengthen my faith in the Catholic Church
This is certainly true for me as well. After some of the conversations I have had here, I am more sure than ever that I am in the right Church.
judging from your posts, I am convinced your are in the right ecclesiastical community as well.
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« Reply #128 on: November 03, 2010, 02:14:03 PM »

There are also members here with whom I've butted heads - not so much here, but elsewhere - but for whom I have considerable respect - and hope they feel the same way toward me, albeit we have sometimes caused each others teeth to ache (with all due respect to my brothers, Isa and Stashko come to mind Cheesy )

I have considerable respect for you, although I cannot recall you giving my teeth occassion to ache.
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« Reply #129 on: November 03, 2010, 02:55:12 PM »

Realistically I think it's a waste of time to expect "justice" or "fairness" on ANY Internet discussion board, on ANY topic.

I still have fond memories of the flame wars that would erupt on the old "Long Hair Site" between those who advocated the occasional "split end trim" and those who opposed any sharp objects touching one's locks at all.

Fun!!  We even had our own version of stashko, an unrepentant long-hair who insisted that the very EXISTENCE of barber shops was a sign of Satanic influence.
Do you think stashko sports a mullet? Smiley

Oh, I hope not. Mullets on Serbs make St. Sava weep, albeit not as much as Serbs who abandon Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #130 on: November 03, 2010, 03:24:28 PM »

You remind me of Orthodox converts who appoint themselves the defenders of Orthodoxy. God doesn't need us to defend anything. He's very capable doing it Himself. Concentrate on better things, brother.
I get your point to a degree (that I shouldn't get so worked up about online conversations), but I also slightly disagree with the last point about God not needing us to defend anything. If that is completely and entirely true that means all of the Holy Martyrs throughout the history of the Church died in vain since they had no reason to defend since God could do it all by Himself. We, of course, know that that is not true. While God certainly can do anything He wishes, we know He prefers working through people. If I ever had the opportunity to die for Christ I hope I would make the right decision, yet I don't know how I would react if faced with such a choice. Good thing form of martyrdom I have to go through is just enduring people badmouthing my Church. Of course, this doesn't just happen on the internet. I have Protestant a friend who is quite vocal about his hatred of the Catholic Church.

Please pray for me because it is a lot to endure and is part of the reason I have such a hair trigger temper when it comes to people talking bad about my Church. I have never been mocked and ridiculed more for my beliefs than after I joined the Catholic Church. Heck, when I was still a Protestant I joined in and took jabs at the Catholic Church too, but I eventually realized that my problems I had with Catholicism were based on misconceptions rather than facts.
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« Reply #131 on: November 03, 2010, 05:31:46 PM »



Knock of the comparisons of other people in other fourms with people in our own.  They are dangerously close, if not actually, ad hominems.

I'm feeling better and will hopefully be able to string together a coherent statement tomorrow.

-Schultz.
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« Reply #132 on: November 03, 2010, 09:14:27 PM »

Offensive to whom, the Eastern Orthodox? Perhaps I will quit being offensive when they start showing a bit more concern for being respectful to us.
No one forces you to stay here. If you feel persecuted, you can quit. Surprisingly not everyone from your confession feels that way, so maybe it's not about "the disrespect torwards the Catholics" but reactions of particular members?
There's more than a few of us who feel persecuted. I just happen to be the one shouting the loudest right now. Plus, why would I leave after being persecuted? If anything, that makes me want to stay all the more, lest you guys have something to boast about (i.e. Woohoo! We ran off another evil Roman heretic!).

You think you're being persecuted here? I am an Orthodox Christian at a Roman Catholic school who is not permitted to have a job on campus because I am not Roman Catholic and I was refused an exemption from the University meal plan to practice Orthodox fasting. When that starts happening here to you, then I think we can talk.

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Andrew
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« Reply #133 on: November 03, 2010, 09:20:15 PM »

Sorry, Schultz - and stashko. I meant no offense, the comparison was meant as a light-hearted joke - but I seem to be antagonizing a lot of people today so .maybe I will just go back to bed and pull the covers up over my head for a few days. Sad
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« Reply #134 on: November 03, 2010, 10:01:48 PM »


I would have to agree with Father Ambrose, whom I consider an old and very dear friend. He and I have been through a great many experiences together (including proving the point that it is possible for both Eastern Catholics and Eastern Orthodox to be banned, nearly simultaneously, from a Catholic site Cheesy ).


Ave Nilus!  Beidh tú i do dlúthchara i gcónaí.

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